| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 12:59:37 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Thanks Lili...
So then, may I ask you "What do you do when you find yourself married to someone you are not very sexually attracted to?"
Love,
Carson
Carson, I think I am not the right person to advise you as I am not advanced and mature as some other folks here so think best is to ask someone like Yogani. I recently left a long-term relationship in which I felt the way you describe but I was not married and there were no kids involved. I am not saying that this is great also as now I experience issues with loneliness but feel that this was the fair thing to do and think my current relationship with my ex-partner(being just friends) is a more honest and in a way more meaningful given the way I feel. Eventhough I sometimes feel lonely and insecure I don't regret my decision. All I'm trying to say is I've been there and I really wish you the best resolution for you and I'm sorry I can't help with advise as do not deem myself sufficiently qualified to advise in such matters. |
 |
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 1:11:29 PM
|
Thanks for your honesty and thoughtfulness Lili. Much appreciated. Thank you for sharing.
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 1:18:16 PM
|
Hi Ananda...
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
but there is love which is for the divine both represented in the feminin and masculin as one.
it's a higher kind of love you may say, a love for God for truth...
But no love for each other?
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
what i meant was that it's best to be with someone whom we love for what he is rather than what he looks like
I agree with this.
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
out of that i am sure we would experience the best tantric experience there is bcz it would be way lot easier to see the other half as divine and be in union with.
This is not true in my experience though. But likely it is because I am not as advanced as you or the tantrikas you speak of.
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
and all the sexual tantric stuff is supposed to be left behind once we get to higher states of purification where union between male and female just happens from a look or a touch and for that we need love of course  .
Of course.
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
by the way i read somewhere that in the vedas there is a drawing for the perfect human being and it's half man half woman and really when we are at such a communion a melting in divine love in perfection the need for worldly things would be lame even the needs of the body would be ignored.
Don't know for sure myself, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that what you are saying is true.
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
tantra is not a necessity to experience enlightenment but meditation and self enquiry are.
Understood.
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
and trust me there is such a state of pure and complete satisfaction and it could be experienced without the presence of a partner.
Yes indeed.
So let me pose the question I asked Lili to you: "What do you do when you find yourself married to someone you are not very sexually attracted to?"
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Feb 27 2009 1:20:02 PM |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 1:24:30 PM
|
Thanks for being so courageously honest, Carson.
It's great that you can transcend the inner judge like that 
quote:
Is it better to have a partner that you are not incredibly sexually attracted to in order to help keep unhealthy sexual attachments at bay, or is it better to have a partner you are incredibly sexually attracted to in order to increase the tantric aspects of the sexual relationship?
I cannot answer this question.....
But from experience here:
Trenscending unhealthy sexual attachments doesn't necessarily happen by avoiding living close to temptations. Any attachment (not only sexual) that is transcended here comes through diving deep into engaging with it....not avoiding it. Getting many bangs on the head......  ......but....so far..... it has always been worth it. Because...who is it really that engages in life....it certainly is not the name and the gender, is it.....it is life itself. And there will always be a portion of awareness present. This touches the attachment....and you learn this way.
Also...
Life has brought you two together for a reason. You are perfect for each others spiritual evolution right now. Or else.....you would not have posed these questions. You are engaging with each other....relating. It is a live relationship.
You may harbour the idea that trenscending "unhealthy sexual attachments" is what is important.
But....life.....may have another agenda Whatever growth there is...for both of you....is already taking place.......just the fact that you are able to see the "gap" between your idea of "right attraction" and what you are actually experiencing....this intrigues you.
Also - when your wife is not "taking care of herself physically"......have you noticed whether this will coincide with "inner dullness" in her? Maybe her....spirit......feels less visible to you......that she is more unaware....maybe slightly depressed...... and therefore tend to look "sloppy"....or whatever you call it in Canada.....
In a relationship like this.....both silently influence each other. It is sometimes hard to tell what came first...the egg...or the hen
|
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 1:41:30 PM
|
Hi Katrine...
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Thanks for being so courageously honest, Carson.
Can't get anywhere if you continually lie to yourself about the fact that you are sitting still! haha.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
It's great that you can transcend the inner judge like that
Trying. Not always successful but at least I'm making an effort!
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Trenscending unhealthy sexual attachments doesn't necessarily happen by avoiding living close to temptations. Any attachment (not only sexual) that is transcended here comes through diving deep into engaging with it....not avoiding it.
Yes...I guess my question was poorly formed. My unhealthy sexual attachments were in my last relationship not my current one. And yes you are very right....noone ever solved anything by running away from it. But I'm really not running from an unhealthy sexual attachment. I am having a problem transcending the need to have my partner be sexually attractive to me. How does one go about that?
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Getting many bangs on the head......
Answered before I even asked. hahahaha
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
......but....so far..... it has always been worth it. Because...who is it really that engages in life....it certainly is not the name and the gender, is it.....it is life itself. And there will always be a portion of awareness present. This touches the attachment....and you learn this way.
Yes, very true. I am not my form, nor my feelings...not my perception nor my beliefs...very wise words.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Also...
Life has brought you two together for a reason. You are perfect for each others spiritual evolution right now. Or else.....you would not have posed these questions. You are engaging with each other....relating. It is a live relationship.
Yes, a live relationship indeed. Now all I need is clarity. As usual, haha.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
You may harbour the idea that trenscending "unhealthy sexual attachments" is what is important.
No, again it is more the need to transcend the need for physical attraction in order to have "intimate" sexual encounters.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
But....life.....may have another agenda Whatever growth there is...for both of you....is already taking place.......
Yes....thank you for reminding me of this.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Also - when your wife is not "taking care of herself physically"......have you noticed whether this will coincide with "inner dullness" in her?
Yes this is very true. These times are when she is "energyless" yet still somehow horny. However that works haha.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Maybe her....spirit......feels less visible to you......that she is more unaware....maybe slightly depressed...... and therefore tend to look "sloppy"....or whatever you call it in Canada.....
Yes, I would say this is pretty accurate.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
In a relationship like this.....both silently influence each other. It is sometimes hard to tell what came first...the egg...or the hen
Yes...excellent advice. Perhaps I need to realize that in these times it is ME who I feel unattracted to and not her. I'm ripe for inquiry now!! haha.
Love,
Carson
|
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 2:09:18 PM
|
Lovely Carson
quote:
No, again it is more the need to transcend the need for physical attraction in order to have "intimate" sexual encounters.
and
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Katrine
Maybe her....spirit......feels less visible to you......that she is more unaware....maybe slightly depressed...... and therefore tend to look "sloppy"....or whatever you call it in Canada.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carson said
Yes, I would say this is pretty accurate.
and
quote:
Yes this is very true. These times are when she is "energyless" yet still somehow horny. However that works haha.
If she is away from herself....if she is "dull".....then there is less energy. But the craving will be greater in her. And then....it is not like making love anymore. It is just to fill an inner lack.
So I wonder why you feel you have to transcend the not wanting to be a "filler" of that lack?
It is your heart we are talking about here, Carson....
It just speaks the truth, doesn't it.......
It is intimacy that is lacking here, no?
And intimacy is precious.....we just often settle for substitues.
quote:
Yes...excellent advice. Perhaps I need to realize that in these times it is ME who I feel unattracted to and not her. I'm ripe for inquiry now!! haha.
Yes
And here...the unattraction towards myself always turned out to be something totally different than what I thought before inquiring. It is usually the judging that is bought as true....
|
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 2:18:03 PM
|
Wise Katrine
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Lovely Carson
If she is away from herself....if she is "dull".....then there is less energy. But the craving will be greater in her. And then....it is not like making love anymore. It is just to fill an inner lack.
Exactly....and I'm not into mindless sex anymore. In previous years, bring it on....but now I have no desire to just engage in sex the way Ananda was talking about the tantrikas doing. This isn't for me. I like to "make love" but this is difficult when my wife is not "there", but yet still wants to screw...And she is so sensitive that rejecting her on the grounds stated above would be a devastating blow to her.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
So I wonder why you feel you have to transcend the not wanting to be a "filler" of that lack?
Because I can't "fake" it. I just don't like being a sexual "filler". So pretending only serves to hurt her feelings.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
It is your heart we are talking about here, Carson....
It just speaks the truth, doesn't it.......
When it speaks it speaks the truth. Usually it is in just silent awareness though.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
It is intimacy that is lacking here, no?
Yes.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
And intimacy is precious.....we just often settle for substitues.
So precious, yet I fear I may have married a "substitute". Merely a fear though and I can recognize that.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
And here...the unattraction towards myself always turned out to be something totally different than what I thought before inquiring. It is usually the judging that is bought as true....
Truer words never spoken.....thank you for your wise words Katrine.
Love,
Carson
|
|
|
|
themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 2:45:00 PM
|
| If your wife wants to have sex and you don't, have sex with her. Take one for the team. There are worse fates... |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 2:48:27 PM
|
Carson....
quote:
So precious, yet I fear I may have married a "substitute".
You did not marry a "substitute". It is what happens after the marriage is a fact that is important. By not accepting to be her substitute.....you simultaneously see to it that she doesn't become yours.....And yes...this triggers fear.
quote:
And she is so sensitive that rejecting her on the grounds stated above would be a devastating blow to her.
I know how difficult it is, Carson........my ex husband was sensitive like this, and so am I....and for years I kept telling myself that it was his sensitivity....the "not wanting to hurt him".....that was the motive for staying quiet here....but......the fear of hurting myself was the underlying factor all a long.......because fronting these difficult issues.......it immediately puts you way out of your comfort zone......anything can happen, right? What you fear most can happen...
But - no happening can ever be worse than eradicating intimacy. I may be crazy.....but this is how it is here. And I am constantly reminded of it in life.....
After you have integrated this "talk" ...........when you know what is what..... that what you feel is exactly how it is......Ask silence....how to convey it to her. Just let it sink into silence.....and wait for the signals to surface. All it takes....is the right way of communing it.......
What comes after it has been communed....we don't know. But then at least you have acted on what you knew to be true.
And THAT is never regretted.
I never regretted fronting the issues in my marriage. Although it was never taken well by him.....I lacked wisdom......it still was so worth it. Because...no matter whom you live with....the most crucial relationship is the one you have with yourself, Carson. If that is in order....then somehow......much of the rest is set straight. Not according to our ideas or even wants....but according to Love. In heart.
So fear all you want....but yet - fear not
Much love to you. |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 2:55:56 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
If your wife wants to have sex and you don't, have sex with her. Take one for the team. There are worse fates...
You ever had someone have "pity" sex with you? I have. It's not nearly as pleasant as you seem to think it is.
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 3:08:22 PM
|
Hi Katrine...
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
You did not marry a "substitute".
Yeah I know . It's just an irrational fear and I see that.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
It is what happens after the marriage is a fact that is important. By not accepting to be her substitute.....you simultaneously see to it that she doesn't become yours.....And yes...this triggers fear.
Didn't see it like until now. Hits home hard. I am beginning to see that this is likely how it is. I don't like to have sex on her terms only, I like to be involved in the decision making process I guess. This goes WAY back to early in my previous relationship and I can see that I am still carrying that baggage. Time to let go I think. Thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
I know how difficult it is, Carson........my ex husband was sensitive like this, and so am I....and for years I kept telling myself that it was his sensitivity....the "not wanting to hurt him".....that was the motive for staying quiet here....but......the fear of hurting myself was the underlying factor all a long.......because fronting these difficult issues.......it immediately puts you way out of your comfort zone......anything can happen, right? What you fear most can happen...
Yes, yes....I too am overly sensitive not just my wife. I see that too. And because of my oversensitivity I am skirting issues that should be dealt with head on. Face my fears.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
But - no happening can ever be worse than eradicating intimacy.
Can you explain this to me? I'm not sure I fully understand what you are saying here.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
After you have integrated this "talk" ...........when you know what is what..... that what you feel is exactly how it is......Ask silence....how to convey it to her. Just let it sink into silence.....and wait for the signals to surface. All it takes....is the right way of communing it.......
Yes. And I'm sure lovingly communicating what is happening will be the answer. Understanding exactly what is happening is the first order of business. You seem to be pulling the advice I need right out of my own head.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
What comes after it has been communed....we don't know. But then at least you have acted on what you knew to be true.
Yes, who knows how she will react, but at least I will have done what was necessary for my progression. And THAT is never regretted.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
And THAT is never regretted.
Took the words right outta my mouth.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
I never regretted fronting the issues in my marriage. Although it was never taken well by him.....I lacked wisdom......it still was so worth it. Because...no matter whom you live with....the most crucial relationship is the one you have with yourself, Carson. If that is in order....then somehow......much of the rest is set straight. Not according to our ideas or even wants....but according to Love. In heart.
Wisdom from the ages...."the most crucial relationship is the one you have with yourself". Thank you.
Much love to you as well.
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 3:10:27 PM
|
hello again Carson,
if you didn't you should talk with your wife in the open about this stuff.
and about your question to Lili if i gave you the answer on my mind that wouldn't be wise bcz i cannot relate to the situation as much as the one going through it.
but it seems that your partner should work it out a little for you bcz if the love making is like the way you describe it then it's really hard.
and the tantrikas whom i mentioned which slept with women of the lower castes in order to practice brahmasharia are very far from being satvic the "aghori tantriks" are among them by the way which explains...
i wish you all the best dear Carson.
Ananda |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 3:15:46 PM
|
Hi Brother Ananda...
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
if you didn't you should talk with your wife in the open about this stuff.
I have not talked with her about this. I have mentioned to her that there are certain ways in which she "looks" at me when she is "horny" that kinda creep me out, or that I find unattractive, but that is as far as it has gone as I was kinda "testing the waters" with those comments and they were not well received. I think I perhaps need to take some time to do some serious self inquiry into the deeper reasons I am feeling the way I am before talking with her about it. I need to have some real clarity or else I will risk doing irrepairable damage to our relationship I fear.
Thanks for your advice....
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 3:22:36 PM
|
| namaste wise Carson. |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 3:24:59 PM
|
Hi Carson
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Katrine
But - no happening can ever be worse than eradicating intimacy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carson said:
Can you explain this to me? I'm not sure I fully understand what you are saying here
First: Inside yourself....answer the question "what happening do I fear most"? And then "what is it with this happening that causes fear?"
The answer to this question will be related to intimacy.
Soul to soul....spirit to spirit.......what is this really
By protecting yourself.....you separate yourself from that......
|
|
|
|
Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 3:28:07 PM
|
Hi Ananda,
Ok, now we are surfing on the same wave you and me..
I totally agree with you when you say that tantric sex is
not a must to attain enlightenment.(Thanks God!)
But definitely, when we have big Love inside, not addressed to anybody in particular, but just Love, and IF we are lucky enough to meet another heart full of Love (and higher spiritual feelings)...then, it's a miracle; then there is a God and a Goddess merging in eachother and disappearing in the ...
I had a taste of this union, and it has become my "cancer"!!
But at least, now, I know the taste of bliss, and I just have a huge thirst to find union again, be it with a partner or alone..
Of course, I would lie if I said that I don't care about living such an experience with another being... but meanwhile, I have "my self" and it's vast enough to explore, isn't it?!
Love (now, I can say it! cause my heart is beating back again!) |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 3:34:23 PM
|
Hi Carson
I'll be quiet now...just this:
quote:
I have mentioned to her that there are certain ways in which she "looks" at me when she is "horny" that kinda creep me out, or that I find unattractive, but that is as far as it has gone as I was kinda "testing the waters" with those comments and they were not well received
Yes....she will react badly to this. See.....her look is the letter z in the alphabet. The communing....must start nearer the start of the alphabet. The look is just a symptom. If together you can explore ...and speak about...what happens prior to this.....
and maybe start with yourself......being honest about your own sensitivity.....your own experience with inner lacks.......she has read "Real Love"...she will understand...given some time and opportunity.....
quote:
I think I perhaps need to take some time to do some serious self inquiry into the deeper reasons I am feeling the way I am before talking with her about it. I need to have some real clarity or else I will risk doing irrepairable damage to our relationship I fear.
Yes. Go slowly.....so that awareness is available.
|
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 3:40:39 PM
|
Hi Katrine...
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
First: Inside yourself....answer the question "what happening do I fear most"?
I think what I fear the most is hurting her.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
And then "what is it with this happening that causes fear?"
What causes this fear is having deep experience myself with being hurt in the same (well similar) way.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Soul to soul....spirit to spirit.......what is this really
By protecting yourself.....you separate yourself from that......
Yes.........a deep truth. Thank you yet again.
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 3:44:51 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
I'll be quiet now...just this:
Please don't be quiet on my account! All you have said has helped greatly and I'm sure you have much more wisdom to impart, so please don't hold back....I'm slowly integrating it all.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Yes....she will react badly to this. See.....her look is the letter z in the alphabet. The communing....must start nearer the start of the alphabet. The look is just a symptom. If together you can explore ...and speak about...what happens prior to this.....
Hmmmm.....not sure I understand what you mean by saying that the communing must start nearer to the start of the alphabet... Can you explain a little differently? Sorry for my ignorance.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
and maybe start with yourself......being honest about your own sensitivity.....your own experience with inner lacks.......she has read "Real Love"...she will understand...given some time and opportunity.....
Yes of course. Honesty is key, I just have to figure out the most "non-hurtful" way to be honest. Not sure I have found that within myself yet. I'm still very "close" to the situation.
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 4:00:06 PM
|
Hi Carson,
Sorry for my "straight" first reply; but it came from my heart and I put it as it came to me.
I won't add anything more..
you got many precious advises here..
But allow me to repeat only one thing: when it comes to relating and love, your heart IS the voice to listen to. Not the mind.
|
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 4:02:48 PM
|
Yes indeed Goddess....the heart IS the only voice to listen to....wise advice taken to heart...no pun intended.
Love,
Carson
P.S> Please don't apologize to ME for being straight!!! That's just how I like it...no sugar coating for me please! I chew my aspirin |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Feb 27 2009 4:03:47 PM |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 4:12:04 PM
|
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Katrine
Yes....she will react badly to this. See.....her look is the letter z in the alphabet. The communing....must start nearer the start of the alphabet. The look is just a symptom. If together you can explore ...and speak about...what happens prior to this.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carson said:
Hmmmm.....not sure I understand what you mean by saying that the communing must start nearer to the start of the alphabet... Can you explain a little differently? Sorry for my ignorance.
It is not ignorance on your part.......just a lack of being clear here
Hmmmm......
You know how often we.....in traditional health care....always seek to eradicate the symptom to the exclusion of the cause ? How all focus is on the symptom? Well......when the smoke alarm goes off at night......we don't just get up....take out the batteries...and go back to bed, do we.... This will not eradicate the fire. The symptom...is just natures way of balancing that which is out of balance. It is actually natures way of curing. And if we address the cause rather than, or in addition to, the symptom...the healing will be permanent....and the balance vertical as well as horisontal.
So ....her "look" is just the sound of that alarm. But where is the fire.....and how did it start?
If you in any way can commune............in such a way that she will understand that you are talking from - and about - love......
One small step at a time.....
|
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 4:18:30 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
So ....her "look" is just the sound of that alarm. But where is the fire.....and how did it start?
Hmmmmm.....thinking....thinking....thinking.....I don't know if this is for sure THE answer, but perhaps the fire started because....I am still.....in love with my ex? Or have yet to let go of the attachment to her? I'm perplexed.
|
Edited by - CarsonZi on Feb 27 2009 4:21:53 PM |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 4:29:22 PM
|
Carson......
quote:
Hmmmmm.....thinking....thinking....thinking.....I don't know if this is for sure THE answer, but perhaps the fire started because....I am still.....in love with my ex? Or have yet to let go of the attachment to her? I'm perplexed.
Heart is huge.
There is room for more than one in it.
The guilt you may feel because you may judge this to be bad, though, is a barrier between you and you
No....I was thinking about her, Carson. To help her explore within herslef......
|
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 4:32:53 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Heart is huge.
There is room for more than one in it.
Of course, and I know this...
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
The guilt you may feel because you may judge this to be bad, though, is a barrier between you and you
Yes for sure.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
No....I was thinking about her, Carson. To help her explore within herslef......
Explore what within herself? I don't understand....The problem is me not her.
Love,
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Sexual attraction: important or not?
