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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 25 2009 : 4:44:48 PM
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Hi Everyone.....
This question has been on my mind for a long long time, and I have always debated with myself over posting it, and for once, the "post it" side has won over the "don't post it" side. The question can be summarized as this:
Is it better to have a partner that you are not incredibly sexually attracted to in order to help keep unhealthy sexual attachments at bay, or is it better to have a partner you are incredibly sexually attracted to in order to increase the tantric aspects of the sexual relationship?
My reason for asking this is because of past experience....
I was incredibly sexually attracted to my ex girlfriend. In what I would say was an unhealthy way. (in hindsight) But the sexual aspect of our relationship was very "tantric" naturally.
With my wife on the other hand, I am not incredibly sexually attracted to her. I am way more attracted to who she is as a person then her exterior appearance and sex often doesn't come into play in this. In fact I may even avoid sex on occasion due to this. So does this lack of sexual attraction hinder my ability to fully connect tantrically with her and would I be better off with a partner I am incredibly sexually attracted to, or does that almost always lead to an unhealthy attachment to sex?
Thanks for any and all input.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Feb 27 2009 12:21:15 PM |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2009 : 5:11:16 PM
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| Be happy, Carson. Don't think about it. Trust yourself. Have what you want. Attachments are a hindrance. Enjoy life. Ignorance leads to clinging, to desire, to suffering. Do as you see fit. These questions cannot be answered, but staying with someone who you are not attracted to so that you can serve a yogic purpose is totally contrive and unnatural. That's how it feels to me. There is no reason to avoid sex or to pursue it. Yoga is not a matter of swimming up stream and walking uphill both ways. This is not the Myth of Sisyphus. Be natural; don't fixate; be at ease. Fixations are the problem; fixations to desires and to aversions, to pursuit and avoidance. Break out; make a move... Build your mandala... Be a lion. |
Edited by - themysticseeker on Feb 25 2009 5:14:23 PM |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2009 : 8:19:33 PM
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| I wonder about this a lot too, Carson. I'm 21 and fairly attractive and have pretty high standards for girls...but it always tends to work out that the ones that are most pretty to me don't always have the best personalities, or it goes to their head and I can't really trust them. You get lucky sometimes...but it's harder, defintley. And I agree with you that obsessive fixation can be unhealthy. But I think also that you can use that sexual fire to fuel your energy and put in back into the relationship if that makes sense. And it is a fascinating thing because they will grow old anyway and all that attraction will fade with the softening of age so it has a built-in mechanism to keep you from getting attached to it. Maybe think of it like being in a wonderful bath or going on a beautiful trip...enjoy it, but be ready to let it go. |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2009 : 9:32:07 PM
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I'm finding this thread very amusing--nothing personal, just my longer view due to my age. My first wife was also my first sexual partner, I was 21. I think I was incredibly sexually attracted to her because she was the first girl to take me into her bed! Before that, I'd be turned on by just about anything in a skirt, although there WAS this one fat ugly girl in high school who supposedly wanted to sleep with me, but I decided that I DID have standards and would not stoop that low. I moved in with my future wife just a few weeks after our (mine, not her) first sexual experience, and we married after about a year. I never really looked at or fantasized about other women and remained very turned on by my wife for a very long time. In early middle age, she became somewhat sexually turned off, but that did not turn me off at all--I wanted her just the same if not more as we got old together. I just couldn't have her as often as I wanted! When she died 2 years ago, I began dating after only a couple of months. I met a fat girl, who said immediately that if I wanted to take her to bed, that would be fine with her. So I did, and it was okay, but I became pretty turned off pretty quickly, even thought the sex was very good. I met my new wife 15 months ago, and was not initially attracted to her sexually--I did not think she was "my type", which had always been dark haired buxom girls. She is blond and not very top-heavy at all. But I found her adorably cute, so we began dating. After only about six weeks, she seduced me. By then we'd been kissing and making out some, and I had started to become very attracted to her. Sexually, we are wildly tantric, and I have learned much about sex, attraction and pleasure through my relationship with her. I now believe that it is pretty important to be turned on sexually by one's tantric partner. One does require a genuine attraction to one's partner for the sex to as tantrically fulfilling as possible. The potential which exists in the sexual experience is tied into so many aspects--spiritual practices, devotion to one's partner, physical attraction, emotional bonding, trust, etc. I cannot imagine that one could get very far into spiritual union with a partner who one had little sexual attraction to, but that's just me.
Michael |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2009 : 10:55:42 PM
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| It is interesting also that in my and many cases (including Michaels) the ones you find the deepest attraction to are the ones you might not be attracted to the most at first. |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Feb 26 2009 : 8:04:21 PM
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| Where does Love come into play here? |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Feb 26 2009 : 9:24:02 PM
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Love is the perfect combination of attraction, devotion, companionship, trust, sharing and giving, and brings into convergence the physical, emotional, intellectual and spiritual phases of life. It is fulfillment, unity and bliss.
Michael |
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 03:22:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Is it better to have a partner that you are not incredibly sexually attracted to in order to help keep unhealthy sexual attachments at bay, or is it better to have a partner you are incredibly sexually attracted to in order to increase the tantric aspects of the sexual relationship?
The very act of asking this kind of questions shows that your choices are lead by the mind.
When there is Love, no question is needed... you just go with the flow of your heart, naturally..
If sex (tantric or not) happens, it happens.. When there is Love, sex may or may not happen.. and when it happens, it becomes a communion, a meditation.. and believe me, in this state of being, you won't even need to ask any question, you won't even need to meditate.. cause you will be naturally meditative! Food, sleep, everything will have a new dimension..
So if somebody tells you "Yes, better have a partner that you are not incredibly sexually attracted to in order to help keep unhealthy sexual attachments at bay", what will you do? Will you behave accordingly to this criterium?!
Or if someone else assures you that "it's better to have a partner you are incredibly sexually attracted to in order to increase the tantric aspects of the sexual relationship?", again, will you start to choose your partner according to such a limited theory?
This will only lead you to delusion..
Just trust your Heart and everything will follow..
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 06:26:53 AM
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this edit is due to the mistakes which came from fast typing.
hi Carson, thk you for the very interesting topic.
i am pro being with someone for who they really are on the inside someone who cares and makes me laugh but it doesn't hurt if they are sexually attractive to a certain degree.
the exterior is smthg you get bored off in time whatever good looking the other person is.
now about sexual attraction and tantra nope it is not necessary and i'll tell you how the union is practiced as a ritual among some of the tantric sects.
concerning tantric union between two persons it's done with a complete sense of detachement with the aim of cultivating sexual energy and transmuting it to bring us up higher and purificate us more.
3 hours before sexual union the two couples are separated and they must start to prepare themselves mentaly and try and enbody lord Shiva and mother Shakti and when it's time for sexual union they must free themselves from all unpure thoughts and the sex must be very mindfull not animal.
and during that love making mantras will be repeated by each partner plus the usual tantric techniques for pulling the energy back upward and redistributing it and manipulating it...
plus some tantrikas do the practice with women of the lower castes as they name them in India and some of them are not attractive at all and here it's a tantrika on one side with someone who is just receptive of the act...
it's all just an act of cultivation, and honestly i don't think that we should make a big deal of it.
so to answer your question again, nope it doesn't matter it is in fact not for the good of the whole cause because it's not love then it's just animal instinct manifested as a sexual attraction and it's neither detached or mindfull of the sex act at all.
count your blessings bro, love is the end result and you are already there.
light and love,
Ananda |
Edited by - Ananda on Feb 27 2009 11:28:49 AM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 08:27:53 AM
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Beautiful post Godessinside. My girlfriend tells me the same: Love happens, one does not think about it or questions it. Such a state of grace  |
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 08:30:54 AM
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Hi Ananda,
So, tantric sex would only be a ritual based on using a partner in order to mindfully manipulate our energies and purificate us more?
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 08:46:11 AM
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Hey YIL!
Does YIL stand for YouInLove? 
I just replied according to my feelings and experience..
Otherwise I wouldn't have allowed myself to talk about such a deep matter.
I'm just wondering how can one have tantric sex with a partner only for the sake of cultivating one's energy..?
Of course, emotional attachment or any other attachment would be a hindrance to one's spiritual growth..be it through tantra or not.
But what's the point of having tantric sex when no Love is involved?!
Something is missing here.. |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 10:30:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
I now believe that it is pretty important to be turned on sexually by one's tantric partner.
I really like the view of Mikkiji. I am not interested in tantric sex only in regular sex but it just feels so much better to be with a person you are really interested in as opposed to just hang around with someone who is not attractive to you and tell yourself sexual attraction is not spiritually important or what have you. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 11:20:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
Hi Ananda,
So, tantric sex would only be a ritual based on using a partner in order to mindfully manipulate our energies and purificate us more?
hi Goddess, this is the main stream thought among tantric sects.
but there is love which is for the divine both represented in the feminin and masculin as one.
it's a higher kind of love you may say, a love for God for truth...
and also practicing tantra could be for the sake of becoming a brahmasharia and learning how to control and cultivate one's sexual energy and the practice could be done solo.
concerning choice making and what i was aiming at, it seems that you might've misunderstood me.
what i meant was that it's best to be with someone whom we love for what he is rather than what he looks like and out of that i am sure we would experience the best tantric experience there is bcz it would be way lot easier to see the other half as divine and be in union with.
and all the sexual tantric stuff is supposed to be left behind once we get to higher states of purification where union between male and female just happens from a look or a touch and for that we need love of course .
by the way i read somewhere that in the vedas there is a drawing for the perfect human being and it's half man half woman and really when we are at such a communion a melting in divine love in perfection the need for worldly things would be lame even the needs of the body would be ignored.
kindest regards,
Ananda
p.s: tantra is not a necessity to experience enlightenment but meditation and self enquiry are.
and trust me there is such a state of pure and complete satisfaction and it could be experienced without the presence of a partner.
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Edited by - Ananda on Feb 27 2009 11:32:48 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 11:32:01 AM
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Hi TMS...
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
Be happy, Carson.
Don't worry Brother....I'm plenty happy . This question has nothing to do with me being unhappy.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
Don't think about it. Trust yourself. Have what you want.
What if what I want is to be sexually attracted to my wife the way I was to my ex girlfriend?
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
but staying with someone who you are not attracted to so that you can serve a yogic purpose is totally contrive and unnatural.
I'm not. I married her because I LOVE her. I'm just not really all that sexually attracted to her. I'm not staying with her to "serve some yogic purpose", I'm staying with her because I believe in not breaking my marriage vows. At least not over this.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
There is no reason to avoid sex or to pursue it.
Well, that is not true from my perspective. If I can tell that my wife wants to have sex, but I am not feeling that sexually attracted to her at the moment, and know that if I engage in it it will be easy for her to tell that, then....perhaps it is better to avoid it all together? I dunno...you tell me.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
Yoga is not a matter of swimming up stream and walking uphill both ways. This is not the Myth of Sisyphus. Be natural; don't fixate; be at ease. Fixations are the problem; fixations to desires and to aversions, to pursuit and avoidance. Break out; make a move... Build your mandala... Be a lion.
Ok?
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 11:38:35 AM
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Hi Anthony...
quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
I wonder about this a lot too, Carson. I'm 21 and fairly attractive and have pretty high standards for girls...but it always tends to work out that the ones that are most pretty to me don't always have the best personalities, or it goes to their head and I can't really trust them.
Yeah trusting a really pretty girl I find incredibly difficult due to my past history. I know this is something I need to work on and perhaps talking like this is a way of doing so.
quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
You get lucky sometimes...but it's harder, defintley.
Yes, I was "lucky". Still am, but sometimes it's harder to see that. It easy to say in hindsite, "I had it all back then", but that is living in the past and what is, is so.....we both know what that means. Time to move on.
quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
And I agree with you that obsessive fixation can be unhealthy.
My problem in my past relationship was that when we first met, the first 2 years were sexually explosive....then I proposed to her and we got engaged. Then she started to use sex as a reward system. I would have to jump through hoops to get laid. We never got back to the way it was. After 6 more years of trying. It became very a very unhealthy fixation for me because I wanted what I couldn't have. And I was used to getting what I wanted.
quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
But I think also that you can use that sexual fire to fuel your energy and put in back into the relationship if that makes sense. And it is a fascinating thing because they will grow old anyway and all that attraction will fade with the softening of age so it has a built-in mechanism to keep you from getting attached to it. Maybe think of it like being in a wonderful bath or going on a beautiful trip...enjoy it, but be ready to let it go.
Yes....great advice. Thank you.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Feb 27 2009 11:39:44 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 11:51:50 AM
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Hi Micheal...
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
I'm finding this thread very amusing--nothing personal, just my longer view due to my age. My first wife was also my first sexual partner, I was 21.
My ex girlfriend was also my first sexual partner. We were 17 when we first started dating.
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
I think I was incredibly sexually attracted to her because she was the first girl to take me into her bed!
Is that the only reason? I'm sure that had something to do with that but weren't you physically attracted to her as well?
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
Before that, I'd be turned on by just about anything in a skirt,
This changed after sleeping with your wife? You were no longer attracted to anything in a skirt? Or did your standards just rise?
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
I moved in with my future wife just a few weeks after our (mine, not her) first sexual experience, and we married after about a year. I never really looked at or fantasized about other women and remained very turned on by my wife for a very long time. In early middle age, she became somewhat sexually turned off, but that did not turn me off at all--I wanted her just the same if not more as we got old together.
This is basically all the same as my experience except mine took place in a much shorter time frame (8 years) and yours took much longer.
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
I just couldn't have her as often as I wanted!
How did that make you feel?
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
When she died 2 years ago, I began dating after only a couple of months. I met a fat girl, who said immediately that if I wanted to take her to bed, that would be fine with her. So I did, and it was okay, but I became pretty turned off pretty quickly, even thought the sex was very good.
See? This is what I am talking about. My wife is not fat, she is not even bad looking, and the sex is incredible....but I'm still not as attracted to her as is sometimes necessary.
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
I met my new wife 15 months ago, and was not initially attracted to her sexually--I did not think she was "my type", which had always been dark haired buxom girls. She is blond and not very top-heavy at all. But I found her adorably cute, so we began dating. After only about six weeks, she seduced me. By then we'd been kissing and making out some, and I had started to become very attracted to her.
Again, my situation is very similar. I have known my wife for a long time, although I never thought of her as a potential partner as she is not "my type" either. But after taking our dogs for a walk together a few times we ended up hooking up and I too began to see her in a new light.
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
I now believe that it is pretty important to be turned on sexually by one's tantric partner. One does require a genuine attraction to one's partner for the sex to as tantrically fulfilling as possible.
Yeah I know. This is my experience as well. Tantric sex can't be "faked". It just happens with the right partner. IME.
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
The potential which exists in the sexual experience is tied into so many aspects--spiritual practices, devotion to one's partner, physical attraction, emotional bonding, trust, etc. I cannot imagine that one could get very far into spiritual union with a partner who one had little sexual attraction to, but that's just me.
But spiritual union with another human being is not necessary for spiritual liberation (thank God) or I'd be f'ed.
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 11:56:43 AM
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Hi cosmic troll...
quote:
Originally posted by cosmic_troll
Where does Love come into play here?
Love is there, no worries on that. It is just the sexual aspect I am talking about here. I don't have much problem loving anyone and everyone so...
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 12:06:06 PM
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Hi Goddessinside...
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
The very act of asking this kind of questions shows that your choices are lead by the mind.
Haha...thanks for pointing that out...but really, isn't talking PERIOD lead by the mind?
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
When there is Love, no question is needed... you just go with the flow of your heart, naturally..
There is love my friend....but where there is love there is not always sexual attraction.
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
If sex (tantric or not) happens, it happens..
Yes but what if your partner wants sex and you don't? And your partner is of the type of person that will take rejection very very personally?
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
When there is Love, sex may or may not happen..
Even when there is NO love sex may or may not happen. That doesn't change anything.
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
and when it happens, it becomes a communion, a meditation..
Not always when you are just "going through the motions".
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
and believe me, in this state of being, you won't even need to ask any question, you won't even need to meditate.. cause you will be naturally meditative! Food, sleep, everything will have a new dimension..
Love to get there! Life would be much cheaper!! No food! haha
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
So if somebody tells you "Yes, better have a partner that you are not incredibly sexually attracted to in order to help keep unhealthy sexual attachments at bay", what will you do? Will you behave accordingly to this criterium?!
No. But I may take their a look at their perspective and see what resonates with me and what doesn't.
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
Or if someone else assures you that "it's better to have a partner you are incredibly sexually attracted to in order to increase the tantric aspects of the sexual relationship?", again, will you start to choose your partner according to such a limited theory?
Again, no. But I may take their a look at their perspective and see what resonates with me and what doesn't.
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
This will only lead you to delusion..
Just trust your Heart and everything will follow..
Yes. Thank you for all the advice.
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 12:15:10 PM
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Hi Ananda...
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
i am pro being with someone for who they really are on the inside someone who cares and makes me laugh but it doesn't hurt if they are sexually attractive to a certain degree.
Yes, it doesn't hurt. My wife is not UNsexually attractive, and really I shouldn't complain. I just am going through a phase where I am missing the sexual connection I felt with my last partner I think.
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
the exterior is smthg you get bored off in time whatever good looking the other person is.
True that. It wears away so quickly in some cases though and not so fast in others right? I guess the real question should be "How important is it to be sexually attracted to your partner?"
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
now about sexual attraction and tantra nope it is not necessary and i'll tell you how the union is practiced as a ritual among some of the tantric sects.
concerning tantric union between two persons it's done with a complete sense of detachement with the aim of cultivating sexual energy and transmuting it to bring us up higher and purificate us more.
So nothing but the sexual aspect is necessary eh? No need for love? It's all about energy cultivation through the sexual act? This sounds a little off to me. Sorry.
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
3 hours before sexual union the two couples are separated and they must start to prepare themselves mentaly and try and enbody lord Shiva and mother Shakti and when it's time for sexual union they must free themselves from all unpure thoughts and the sex must be very mindfull not animal.
and during that love making mantras will be repeated by each partner plus the usual tantric techniques for pulling the energy back upward and redistributing it and manipulating it...
plus some tantrikas do the practice with women of the lower castes as they name them in India and some of them are not attractive at all and here it's a tantrika on one side with someone who is just receptive of the act...
This just sound so wrong to me. Not really sure why though. Perhaps some inquiry is necessary.
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
it's all just an act of cultivation, and honestly i don't think that we should make a big deal of it.
So are you a believer in monogamy?
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
so to answer your question again, nope it doesn't matter it is in fact not for the good of the whole cause because it's not love then it's just animal instinct manifested as a sexual attraction and it's neither detached or mindfull of the sex act at all.
So much varying advice here. Wonderful. SO much to think about! thank you all!
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
count your blessings bro, love is the end result and you are already there.
Yes I thank God everyday for the journey itself. Blessings indeed.
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 12:18:55 PM
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Hi Lili...
quote:
Originally posted by Lili
I am not interested in tantric sex only in regular sex but it just feels so much better to be with a person you are really interested in as opposed to just hang around with someone who is not attractive to you and tell yourself sexual attraction is not spiritually important or what have you.
Yes, I can see that. I do find that when there is physical sexual attraction present it is much easier to engage in "meaningful" sex. Perhaps that is very shallow of me though. More need for inquiry I think! haha.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Feb 27 2009 12:32:22 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 12:26:17 PM
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Hi Carson
Can I ask you something.......
When you don't feel like having sex with your wife.......are you also not interested in hugging her?
If there were no expectations in either of you........will you be attractd to just hugging?
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 12:37:22 PM
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H Katrine...
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Can I ask you something.......
Of course...I'm open for any and all questioning. Fire away!
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
When you don't feel like having sex with your wife.......are you also not interested in hugging her?
Yeah. Pretty much just plain not attracted to her. Sometimes she doesn't "try" very hard to be attractive, and again, I know this is shallow of me, but it's hard to want to be "intimate" (in anyway) with her when she is like that. Makes me feel terrible to say this.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
If there were no expectations in either of you........will you be attractd to just hugging?
Do you mean no expectations for sex? If yes, then my answer would be again no. Not when she makes no effort to make herself physically attractive. (some people don't need a lot of effort to be sexually attractive to me, and some need a little more. Again I feel really bad talking like this.)
Love,
Carson |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 12:47:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi Lili...
I do find that when there is physical sexual attraction present it is much easier to engage in "meaningful" sex. Perhaps that is very shallow of me though. More need for inquiry I think! haha.
Love,
Carson
I fully agree with you. Maybe it's because I'm shallow! In my little view massive sexual attraction stems from the other person being able to affect you on many levels--physical, emotional, mental etc. hence creating a full all-round experience for you--explosive as you called it--that make sense? And, at least in my case having this attraction to someone and being drawn in such a way is really rare. So don't agree with this being discounted, swept under the carpet, labelled as non-spiritual,a "distraction" , a hindrance to spirituality. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 12:50:22 PM
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Thanks Lili...
So then, may I ask you "What do you do when you find yourself married to someone you are not very sexually attracted to?"
Love,
Carson |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2009 : 12:52:03 PM
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| Carson to take a better look at what i was saying read my reply to Goddessinside. |
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| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
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Sexual attraction: important or not?
