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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 2:47:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Based on the responses to Beetsmyth's post, I guess I just see his question differently than some others here.
Do you guys feel that it's verboten to ask questions?
I think it's super legit to ask what this work is about, where it comes from and why it's here.
Absolutely not. Ask away, but the answers won't always be what you are looking for, this doesn't mean that anyone is being evasive or has a closed view. Instead the answers are pointing towards the one answering the questions. It's like asking why it always seems to be hot where you live, while others are experiencing extreme cold, it's just different for everyone and entirely personal. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 6:12:48 PM
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Plus, even the word "Awkening" just sounds awkward.  |
Edited by - Etherfish on Jun 16 2012 6:43:23 PM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 9:32:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Based on the responses to Beetsmyth's post, I guess I just see his question differently than some others here.
Do you guys feel that it's verboten to ask questions?
I think it's super legit to ask what this work is about, where it comes from and why it's here.
Absolutely not. Ask away, but the answers won't always be what you are looking for, this doesn't mean that anyone is being evasive or has a closed view. Instead the answers are pointing towards the one answering the questions. It's like asking why it always seems to be hot where you live, while others are experiencing extreme cold, it's just different for everyone and entirely personal.
Well I suppose we agree then, because I'm not looking for an answer outside of myself, I just like to talk about the questions! ;) |
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beetsmyth
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 01:34:32 AM
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this post was never intended to be based on frustration, but more so based on wonder, i.e. I Wonder why it took/takes so long.
As others have mentioned, I'm a lot more along the way to having found my original self then say, 10 years ago. Awareness being aware that I am not the Mind nor the body.....
I thought Oneness realized was the end. Now all sorts of changes in the body, channels opening, heart opening back up to pour out love, etc.
Years ago I dismissed the breath exercises and yoga aspect cause I saw that as more 'I' doing it, and now its spontaneously doing itself.
I understand on an Awareness, or even deeper, no i level, no time level, only now .....that this question is irrelevant.
But for the mind, for the intellect to know, to see what others add to this. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 07:04:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Well I suppose we agree then, because I'm not looking for an answer outside of myself, I just like to talk about the questions! ;)
 I have thought of a nice parallel. It's like somebody learning to swim and asking why it's taking so long when they spent 9 months in liquid and have evolved from amphibians.
The answer is to forget about what went on in the past but to focus on learning in the present. Some will learn quickly and some slower. All in the right time.
It's impossible to answer the question of why it's faster or slower, it's not even a good topic for discussion. All you can get is a lot of people wondering why it's like that , ot those that have long since given up asking the question and are focused on their own development.
We should start another thread asking why it should take so long for some people to get that it takes as long as it takes
There really is nothing to discuss. All we can do is give a bit of encouragement, but if you don't need that then why ask the question at all ? |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 08:37:44 AM
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| The mind that asks the question is never satisfied. The question has been answered over and over, but the answers don't satisfy the mind. The mind wants validation and that is not found by meditation. So after endless questions the mind either gives up in silence, or gives up spiritual pursuits for manmade stuff that is more validating. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 09:22:19 AM
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Sometimes the mind chases itself looking for answers, but also sometimes the asking (and facing) the question can help and issue/obstruction be let go.
As an interesting coincidence, just yesterday, someone told me that they could percieve time non-linearly from "oneness".
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2012 : 12:46:30 AM
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But where would the human race be in life (or in death) if we had not continuously asked questions, that at the time they were being asked, others were saying - That is impossible to know! Our greatest strength as Spiritual Beings stuck in a Human Body is exactly that To Ask Questions - the more "impossible" the questions the better.
My humble opinion
Sey |
Edited by - SeySorciere on Jun 14 2012 12:47:51 AM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2012 : 07:02:04 AM
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| Couldn't agree more Sey... when the mind is properly tamed there's no conflict between silence and the mind in my experience. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2012 : 08:00:00 AM
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| that is what zen koans are. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2012 : 12:56:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
But where would the human race be in life (or in death) if we had not continuously asked questions, that at the time they were being asked, others were saying - That is impossible to know! Our greatest strength as Spiritual Beings stuck in a Human Body is exactly that To Ask Questions - the more "impossible" the questions the better.
My humble opinion
Sey
Yes that's true as long as the questions are externalised. The answers to the internal questions we already have. This is why it is self-inquiry and not communal inquiry, eventually we reach a point where question and answer just go into stillness. There isn't anyone to ask the question or anyone to hear the answer.
You can ke asking the question and the answer is always the same, look within, know thyself.
"So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple."
All the same answer, look within, listen hard and you will have your answer, because there is no question worthy of it.
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2012 : 9:16:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by beetsmyth
Im not necessarily speaking for myself, although it has taken a decade to get to a certain point, including realizing the whole (i am not my story, thoughts, body).
But many others share these sentiments about it all taking so long
It doesn't have to take long, it's individual. Enjoy the process however long it takes. Frustration won't reduce the time needed even by a single minute so it's pointless. Ultimately there isn't a getting to anything, you already are, just keep reminding yourself that it's your natural state.
Yes! That's why my teacher advises against the pursuit of "enlightenment" as a goal to be reached in the future. As Karl said, we are simply returning to our natural state, which we already are on some level, we just need to become aware of it. Our yoga practice is a way to assist in that process while at the same time ENJOYING our natural state in the moment. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2012 : 11:43:33 PM
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So much for conversation... I guess I'll just stop talking to anyone else  |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2012 : 03:58:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
So much for conversation... I guess I'll just stop talking to anyone else
I'm projecting Love no need to talk |
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Sanjeev
India
32 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2012 : 11:56:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by beetsmyth
Well then why in the heck does it take sooo many years, decades even, to become completely Enlightened?
To copy Ramana Maharishi, just ask yourself who is asking this question and the question will fall apart. |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2012 : 10:13:39 AM
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Well, it takes so long, because we have been eons away from our true Home.... in the meantime we have been collecting dirt, and got enchained in the creation with different bodies: physical, astral and causal, and mind, and vices, and a large army of extras....to the extent, that we have forgotten our true spiritual nature .... so naturally , it is going to take time to get ourselves cleaned and freed totally.
Then too, from the 24 hours in the day, very few percentage, are engaged in spiritual practices at most some hours of the day...so naturally the scale is still heavier in the creation´s side then on the spiritual one.
The creation has to go on for some reasons beyond our intellect, and for that purpose, imperfection has to continue ... if it was that easy to become enlightened, this side of the creation would start becoming empty, but it seems, that this is still not going to be in the near future...
So those who are conscious or aware of their spiritual nature, should be thankful to the Lord for it, and try their best and move firmly towards
the Light ... for we know, that these fortunate ones, are but a infinitely tiny fraction of the entire, sum up of beings.
Because grace is what makes us be positive, and we can only, at most, make ourselves, worthy of it, so to be fully be receptive to it.
As Krishna said to Arjuna, only actions are in your hands, not the fruits.
So actions here, means using our will, with responsibility, maturity, benevolence and humility.
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Edited by - harsharan000 on Jun 29 2012 6:55:38 PM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2012 : 7:40:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
Well, it takes so long, because we have been eons away from our true Home.... in the meantime we have been collecting dirt, and got enchained in the creation with different bodies: physical, astral and causal, and mind, and vices, and a large army of extras....to the extent, that we have forgotten our true spiritual nature .... so naturally , it is going to take time to get ourselves cleaned and freed totally.
Then too, from the 24 hours in the day, very few percentage, are engaged in spiritual practices at most some hours of the day...so naturally the scale is still heavier in the creation´s side then on the spiritual one.
The creation has to go on for some reasons beyond our intellect, and for that purpose, imperfection has to continue ... if it was that easy to become enlightened, this side of the creation would start becoming empty, but it seems, that this is still not going to be in the near future...
So those who are conscious or aware of their spiritual nature, should be thankful to the Lord for it, and try their best and move firmly towards
the Light ... for we know, that these fortunate ones, are but a infinitely tiny fraction of the entire, sum up of beings.
Because grace is what makes us be positive, and we can only, at most, make ourselves, worthy of it, so to be fully be receptive to it.
As Krishna said to Arjuna, only actions are in your hands, not the fruits.
So actions here, means using our will, with responsibility, maturity, benevolence and humility.
Great post harsharan ;)
But I wonder, are we really that far from home at all?
I am certain that wherever I was before I was born (this time?), I was a lot closer to the light than when I was, say 18 years old.
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2012 : 10:35:50 AM
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Hi Tonightsthenight,
If you ask directly to me this question, then my answer is definitely, yes. There are several ways to know, where are we standing or heading... to clear the doubts one may have and you ask me...but to answer that, one has to enter the pure realms of spirituality, and for that, we have to keep on asking for His grace, like a beggar at His door.
Grace which will be showered without limits on us, or better said, His grace is showered equally on all, but only receptivity makes the difference. Rain falls everywhere, but only those buckets get filled with water, which are turned upwards.
An the question about light which you mention ..... I could say, there are different levels or intensities or powers of light.
Just as candle gives light in the darkness, then we have a 40 watts bulb, or a 100 watts one, or we have moonlight, sunlight, or the twinkling stars, etc.
A new born baby has no knowledge, a child in a primary knows to write or read, then we have school students, then those in the universities, and then we have teachers, scholars, etc...education wise.
All of them have knowledge(light), but what differs in them, is that degree of knowledge. We could well say, all of them are at different conscious levels.
In the same way, each spiritual realm has different light and its own characteristics. And until, one has a proper guide, one is lost and deluded in this huge unlimited creation, one(soul) can never know, how far is one its true Home. Because only He who comes from there, can guide you throughout the way up to the end.
And the light or enlightenment we are here talking about, is the one we get, by merging ourselves in that Supreme Being, known also as, God, as Parmatma, who is highest level of consciousness.
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2012 : 11:40:41 AM
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Well who could really say, then. That sounds just as unfathomable as karma. If this existence is one of games within games within games then we're in for a long journey!
Although, when I was a child, I used to think the world was awfully complex. Even as a university student, I continued to be awed by the power, scale and complexity of the world. Now as an adult, however, I sometimes wonder after some things, but the world and its systems does not seem a mystery at all. Rather a simple thing, actually.
It's the same with the spiritual world. Those things that once seemed impenetrable are now facile. |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2012 : 2:16:21 PM
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Your words denote, you have matured spiritually after going some phases of your life, which is a good sign, and for that, I will just encourage you, to keep on going further, by wishing you good luck.
Karmas are unfathomable, that is totally true. As you sow, so shall you reap.
He is never to be blamed. He can not deliver injustice. He is all bountiful & merciful.
We are wholly responsible, for our ups and downs, with our very own karmas.
We are just like children sent by our Father in a fair, to go and enjoy the merry go rounds and other entertainments; but we have kept ourselves so busy here for so long, that we have forgotten our origin and about our Father, and thus became miserable.
So the thing is actually not complex at all, it is very simple rather. We have been given a chance, to play our cards intelligently, and come out from the fair, as winners.
Karmas are unavoidable chains,but we have to use the options of minimizing them, and nullifying them, by engaging ourselves in true Love and Devotion at His Lotus Feet.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2012 : 2:37:23 PM
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| The world is only unfathomable in terms of logic. The ego thinks logic is necessary. Instinct knows it is not. Logic is necessary to build things that are against nature, and God. They will seem advantageous for quite a while, then nature will overrule. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2012 : 6:08:30 PM
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| That is true Etherfish. But of course, that's precisely what the verb "to fathom" means: mental reach or scope. You can't separate the act of fathoming from the mind. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2012 : 6:16:11 PM
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Hi harshharan,
It's true that we can only know where we are in relation to something else. So it is that we can't possibly know how close or how far we are from home unless we know home.
In that case, I can say I'm far from home! 
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2012 : 6:25:29 PM
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| I'm not so sure. To fathom means to find the depth of, and instinct can see through things without logic. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2012 : 06:08:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
The world is only unfathomable in terms of logic. The ego thinks logic is necessary. Instinct knows it is not. Logic is necessary to build things that are against nature, and God. They will seem advantageous for quite a while, then nature will overrule.
I refer to it as a super dynamic system. It is a system where there are infinite inputs and outcomes. It has been the aim of many philosophers to create a model and quantify it logically. They have failed. They failed because they do not realise that they are the ones creating their world. As they try and create a logical model their world shifts in response as they attempt to grasp it, it slips from their hands like mist. That is what the Ego brings, it continually tries to grasp the world it interfaces with and bend it to its own will. The very attempt bends it out of reach.
The mind is the interface between the world revealed and that which cannot be revealed. The Ego is the device by which the mind connects with the world that is seen.
No one should be surprised that they are manufacturing their world continually, that they are so smitten with it that they cannot understand that it is simply their creation and are trying to master and control it. The more they try the more it warps and confounds their attempts. This the heart of suffering. Trying to control something in which the very act wrests control away and the result is suffering.
The game is up when you cease to control. The classic delusion is the attempt to cease control in order to gain control Once you truly stop and realise how it's working then you are isolated from its effects. You can watch your world curl around you like moving smoke, constantly moving and changing like clouds across the sky, a beautiful, intricate dance. You can even create patterns in it as long as you realise it is just creative playing and only reality on a certain plane.
It takes so long because of the denial that you are not what your senses define you as. Stop denying, stop controlling and it's revealed. The trick is not getting pulled back into believing that you have control, then it's playful. |
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Why all of this Awkening business takes so long?
