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beetsmyth
USA
104 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 09 2012 : 2:39:56 PM
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I remember pre-existing in a Spiritual Realm, as SPirit, prior to being here on Earth.
Well then why in the heck does it take sooo many years, decades even, to become completely Enlightened? I used to think reaching Oneness/Union was the end all Be all, and in a sense its just the beginning.
SO what doesnt make sense is why all of this Enlightenment business takes soooo long to break through and achieve a wholeness, completion, advanced state. Considering the Real "Us" is Soul/Spirit, locked into a Human body experiencing Human-ness, you would think it would be so easy and simple like riding a bike.
And yet the Chakras on most are cob-webbed over, people completely think they are the body and the mind, have no Idea about Awareness/Soul, etc etc.
It all just seems so unintuitive, like some weird crazy experiment. "Hey lets stuff souls into these flesh bags with blinders, limits, ego, and forgetfullness and see what happens!" The results? Wars, famines, divisions, and madness. Perhaps we all agreed to go through this all, but if thats the case, I'm sure a small minority of us were completely against this.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2012 : 3:19:06 PM
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Stop fighting it then 
Because you believe your memory to be real. The belief in that remembered reality anchors you firmly to the fleshy sack.
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beetsmyth
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2012 : 5:07:53 PM
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Im not necessarily speaking for myself, although it has taken a decade to get to a certain point, including realizing the whole (i am not my story, thoughts, body).
But many others share these sentiments about it all taking so long |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2012 : 10:15:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by beetsmyth
Im not necessarily speaking for myself, although it has taken a decade to get to a certain point, including realizing the whole (i am not my story, thoughts, body).
But many others share these sentiments about it all taking so long
It doesn't have to take long, it's individual. Enjoy the process however long it takes. Frustration won't reduce the time needed even by a single minute so it's pointless. Ultimately there isn't a getting to anything, you already are, just keep reminding yourself that it's your natural state. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 03:24:01 AM
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Hey Beetsmyth, interesting post.
I too have a distinct memory of existing prior to this life. In fact, right before.
I also do not understand why the process takes so long here on earth. I'm not frustrated (karl, asking questions is not a crime against the spirit! :D )...
My limited understanding is that we come here agreeing to this life, and all that this entails. And further, that there is a challenge in life, one that we are eager to face. I don't understand any more than that, and perhaps never will because, after all, it's the heart of the mystery.
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crazymandrew
USA
121 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 04:40:22 AM
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There really are spiritual teachers who think this life was a trick and that you are a slave to other spirits. These spirits are largely why I think a lot of practice is necessary. They literally to try to push you away from spiritual states. They also drain your energy, good reason to do pranayama or asanas.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 06:49:49 AM
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| Yes, this really sucks... I am with you amigo... |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 08:42:38 AM
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| well i am in no rush....just doing my practices and removing daily the dirt that keeps on appearing and appearing and appearing loll...the path is not easy and nagging about it wont make it easier lolllz |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 08:51:57 AM
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There is a part of your mind that thinks it knows better than God how to find enlightenment. It is also the same part that thinks enlightenment is a terrible, long journey. That part of your mind gets frustrated because it can't change what the journey consists of.
But another part of your mind can radically change how you experience the journey. That's a more enjoyable project to work on, because perception and experience are the whole world to our mind. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 12:46:15 PM
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Hey Ether, not that you're wrong or that I disagree with your post, BUT... (haha) I think the core of Beets' post is that he/she can identify with the person he was before birth, and that he now realizes that after years (decades?) of hard work on the journey, he is that same person. I can also identify with this concept.... I don't think it has much to do with frustration.
So the question, to me, is: Why does it take years of work on Earth to become the person we already are? :)
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 1:21:12 PM
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Sounds to me like it has everything to do with frustration! But I'll ignore that.
In Christianity it is symbolized by taking of the apple from the tree of knowledge. God forbids it, but the great deceiver, Satan convinces us it is good. The next part is not christian of course:
Once we partake of that apple of knowledge, the whole universe of duality exists, and we immediately start accumulating karma, but at the same time there are many wondrous diversions.
All these diversions feed the part of your mind that knows better than God, and thinks it understands knowledge.
We spend a lot of lifetimes feeding that mind. So it takes a lot of lifetimes to bring it under control.
Most people will tell you that we get rid of that dual part of our mind and return to innocence as we were.
Personally I don't believe that. I believe we return to a sort of innocence, but bring the knowledge with us. That's why you can't just become enlightened by cutting off part of your brain. The knowledge and innocence together makes a more complete being. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 1:41:41 PM
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I am re-posting again just to say words won't give a solution in this matter... Yes, in most cases it takes a long time and a few others are practically almost born ready for it... It really is a darn thing which we can't really know the answer of. We may blame it on karma or on our lifestyle but from what I've seen in the action of the so called enlightened is that some of their acts are even much worse then yours truly...
I understand why you would post something like this and it's good to do so for the support one may get in this forum. I've done it many times... It's good to let out... The best advise I could give you my dear beetsmyth is to keep the faith and keep on pushing... Don't surrender... Your desire, your love is the true flame which will devour all in the end... Or so i've been told
As Sri Ramana and Sri Atmananda say: striving forward must continue until one attains what needs to be attained. In the suffi path I follow, it is said: The path is separation then union, despair then enjoyment and those whom start is a burning one, will have a bright ending.
I wish you true satisfying peace from all my heart.
Love,
Ananda |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 2:04:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Hey Ether, not that you're wrong or that I disagree with your post, BUT... (haha) I think the core of Beets' post is that he/she can identify with the person he was before birth, and that he now realizes that after years (decades?) of hard work on the journey, he is that same person. I can also identify with this concept.... I don't think it has much to do with frustration.
So the question, to me, is: Why does it take years of work on Earth to become the person we already are? :)
you need to ask yourself that, as you alone hold the key. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 4:33:53 PM
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Hey Ether, maybe you're right! :D
I see you've still got the serpent on the brain... and I think you got to the heart of it (at least what I inferred from the original post and the question as it exists in my mind):
Maybe we are purifying our dualistic nature, and when we exist outside of this life, we only exist in our nondualistic nature? I'll need to chew on that a bit, but I think it's heading in the right direction at least.
So we're here to tame the beast so to speak, but in fact the beast is us ;)
Thanks for the insight!
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Sounds to me like it has everything to do with frustration! But I'll ignore that.
In Christianity it is symbolized by taking of the apple from the tree of knowledge. God forbids it, but the great deceiver, Satan convinces us it is good. The next part is not christian of course:
Once we partake of that apple of knowledge, the whole universe of duality exists, and we immediately start accumulating karma, but at the same time there are many wondrous diversions.
All these diversions feed the part of your mind that knows better than God, and thinks it understands knowledge.
We spend a lot of lifetimes feeding that mind. So it takes a lot of lifetimes to bring it under control.
Most people will tell you that we get rid of that dual part of our mind and return to innocence as we were.
Personally I don't believe that. I believe we return to a sort of innocence, but bring the knowledge with us. That's why you can't just become enlightened by cutting off part of your brain. The knowledge and innocence together makes a more complete being.
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 4:36:28 PM
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[/quote] you need to ask yourself that, as you alone hold the key.[/quote]
:D |
Edited by - tonightsthenight on Jun 10 2012 4:58:23 PM |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 7:30:55 PM
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It seems like a long time when you're in the trenches, suffering and struggling to escape. But at some point, you look back and it's amazing how quickly you went from suffering to joy.
A human lifetime is a blink of an eye.
Namaste [img]icon_heart.gif[/img] |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 12:28:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cosmic
It seems like a long time when you're in the trenches, suffering and struggling to escape. But at some point, you look back and it's amazing how quickly you went from suffering to joy.
A human lifetime is a blink of an eye.
Namaste [img]icon_heart.gif[/img]
So true dude. Like a dream that may... or may not... have happened. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 08:12:26 AM
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| I was going to say it but Cosmic beat me to it. Life is short, enjoy the ride! |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 4:28:50 PM
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In the journey back to Self-realization, time can have no meaning. We're already there, so the journey is already accomplished, or, it takes an eternity, pick one. Infinitely short or infinitely long is how long it's going to take us. How can it take so long to get someplace we never left? However, the impatience expressed by so many here is common to younger people, who feel that 25 years is such a long time. When you have lots more years behind you and few ahead, then time becomes very different. 25 years...? I think my daughter began kindergarten 25 years ago, so that must have been in the recent past... unless I missed something in the meantime...! See--for those to whom 25 years is most of their life to date, that's a LOOOONG time, but for me, at age 60, those 25 years went by POOF!, gone, I KNOW stuff happened (like a big portion of my life...!?), but it just went by fast. It seems I graduated high school a little while ago, not very long, but, hmmm, let's see--that was 42 years ago. So 42 years (the number of years I've been meditating now) does not seem like forever. Went by in an instant! How long does it take in this "flesh-bag"? As long as it takes... I know, sorry, it's not a very satisfying answer, but it's the best perspective I can give, and as one who has been at it for a lifetime, from this end it seems much shorter than it did from the other end! Maybe that helps...
Namaste,
Michael |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 4:46:30 PM
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It doesn't really take a long time. That's just an illusion that enlightenment removes 
Of course the dream happened. They all do. But we only attend the showing of some, thank God. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 10:08:06 PM
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Based on the responses to Beetsmyth's post, I guess I just see his question differently than some others here.
Do you guys feel that it's verboten to ask questions?
I think it's super legit to ask what this work is about, where it comes from and why it's here.
My interest comes from the knowledge that I've put in a lot of years in the trenches (thanks Cosmic, great line!), and it's been a long journey from here to there. But in the end, I'm much closer to who I was before I was born than say... the person I was when I was 18.
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 10:47:02 PM
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quote:
Well then why in the heck does it take sooo many years, decades even, to become completely Enlightened?
I guess it is inquiry, but getting back to the original question, what comes immediately to my mind is: what would be without this question? Or who would I be without this question?
From my perspective it is a question only a brain (mind) could ask. A brain that isn't you, but a series of thoughts interacting with one another. So who would I be without that thought or any thought? Coming back to this again and again, who am I without that thought, arriving finally at the innate "beingness" that observes the arising of the question.
So from my perspective, even when I hear the thought "why does it take so long to be enlightened" it is not a personal thought to me. It is a thought that is circulating in the common mind that we can mistakenly take on as our own, believe and feel the emotional consequences of believing such a thought. The thought itself helps create the sense of separation.
Not to go on too long here, but also the myth of some ideal state of complete enlightenment is another powerful separator of being whole. It is a series of images of some rosy state of being that isn't here and now. Giving this up brings us one step closer to feeling fulfilled and no longer needing such a thing to feel satisfied with life.
Just sayin'
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 11:53:08 PM
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| Anthem, not that I disagree at all with the tone of your post, but my experience has been that life outside of this life is still separate. That is, we have individuality, characteristics and a separate nature to the whole. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 01:51:37 AM
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| Anthem great post as always...soaked in inner silence i can feel it |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 09:30:39 AM
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| Great post dear Anthem |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 11:53:44 AM
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great post anthem, that's a very practical technique 
It's very true also. I've recently been letting go of any enlightenment idea, more and more.
Getting caught up in identification with mental thoughts about a future state of enlightenment can lead to so much suffering. Your question helps trace back to the witness, the aware presence, the inescapable seeing within which all experiences arise. |
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Why all of this Awkening business takes so long?
