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nirmal
Germany
438 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 05 2011 : 05:34:36 AM
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Hi everyone,
Thanks!My head and heart are full. manigma, I've been reading the material you sent me, and it will take awhile to fully read and digest it all. One thing it has already helped was the misconception of "mine."
I have suffered a great deal for Years over the loss of everything I owned. All of My stuff. It's now in the hands of other people who now call it Their stuff! I have been searching for a way to let go, and at last I have found It! I gained more insight into the witness. I understand what you are saying when you say that which was never born will never die; perfect silence inside, and the body is not me. All this you speak of sounds like a description to me of God,who I know is within each of us. I realise I have much to learn/experience to fully understand all of this. I enjoyed all the videos! I think/know you're right, Liz!
This Has been a learning experience!
Yes manigma,nirmal was my(there's that word again!) spiritual name given to me by the late Yogi Bhajan.I truly love the name.
 nirmal |
Edited by - nirmal on Jun 06 2011 03:53:55 AM |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2011 : 12:34:37 PM
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Hi nirmal! I'm so happy you're finding joy.
I hope it's not rude to add to your post at this point. If I'm being rude, please forgive me and send me a note saying so, so that I know not to do it again.
I just wanted to respond to Etherfish and to share more of what I learned in these intervening hours.
Hi Etherfish!  I know that what we do matters and that this way of living isn't practical for everyday life. It's more like I realized that Manigma and I were viewing the same object, the soul, from two very different perspectives. You know how two people can look at an object, and it doesn't even look like the same object? You have to physically travel through space to the other person's vantage point to realize that its the same thing. That's kind of what happened for me with this topic. I realized I had made the trip to manigma's vantage point before.
I grew up with the belief that the soul is mutable, and that we basically have one shot at making our souls good enough to be accepted into heaven (no re-incarnation). (In fact, I think that's why westerners tend to cling so desperately to life. ("Hey, God! I wasn't finished yet!"))
But there was a time when I realized that there was a tiny piece of me that no one could damage. It didn't matter what my tormenters did, they could not hurt me there. And in that tiny place, I was completely free. Free to see what needed doing and to do what I must. Right now, that part of me is infinitesimally small, and I have no need to find it. But I have a feeling that meditation makes it grow larger. And maybe for some, that place is big enough to live in all the time.
But I don't think it's a safe place to live. I could easily fool myself into thinking that I'm in that place when I'm not. And what evil would I be capable of while I'm busy fooling myself? I don't want to find out.
much love,
--Liz
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Edited by - whippoorwill on Jun 05 2011 1:04:14 PM |
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nirmal
Germany
438 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2011 : 12:18:33 AM
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Hi Liz!
No problem! I wish more folks would add something when they get the urge! Reading your replies helps me to grow too!
This space you are talking about sounds like something to nurture, not fear.
nirmal |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2011 : 01:24:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nirmal
Hi Liz!
No problem! I wish more folks would add something when they get the urge! Reading your replies helps me to grow too!
This space you are talking about sounds like something to nurture, not fear.
nirmal
We can't understand karma, until we understand the nature of being; then it is very simple for us to understand.
At the core of everything are the sparks, known by some as Atman. These sparks are eternaly related to the being some call God.
These sparks have eternally been building space/time/matter and everything that can exist, by a cooperative effort.
Through this haze of the subjective creation, shines the light of Awareness, that is undifferentitated and eternal.
Some call that which is modified by the sparks shakti, or maya or illusion. Well. Just like an engine is not a car, and a car is the ultimate reality so to speak, the One, the undifferentiated is the car and the engine is shakti. This does not make shakti an illusion. This does not make matter an illusion. This is silly talk. Just because some become obsessed with a thing, mistaking it for the whole.. that does not make it an illusion. That makes the mistaker mistaken. Don't kick the dog cause you failed your homework.
So, we have two eternal subcomponents so to speak, undifferentiated awareness and that which is frothed up into form by the collective activity of the sparks. Beyond even this layer, would be "God".
Under the hood of reality, are all these many power conduits.. you might call them the nadis in the body of God, if you want to use the lingo.
Sometimes the nadis get congested, and a temporary being is born. You might call this a soul. Souls are bits of congestion in the nadis of the body of God so to speak, which are powered by Atman, and through which the undifferentiated awareness of the One still shines.. though it is buried like a seed at the core.
What people call individual karma is in fact, just a bit of congestion stored up in a 'soul'. The soul, and it's reflection in matter, the ego or "little self", while it has the delusion that it is the source of being, and not just a temporary reflection, hangs onto this congestion. The One, Awareness does not interfere with these bits of congestion.. souls.. and egos.. it's all part of the great structure.
When the little self, the soul and all other parts of the delusion of being the source starts to fade away, the congestion is released. "Karma" is cleared away. Asking "others" for forgiveness and such methods of "releasing karma" are just fine..if for no other reason than to help release the gunk. But at the end of the day, that's all it is--gunk. Of course learning to love and other valuable lessons, through 'getting over yourself', getting over the delusion that you are a separate little self.. this is wonderful and to be encouraged. So don't mistake the under the hood for the whole picture.. Awareness does shine through us all, and learning to let the Awareness shine through, by reacting to the world (whether to purify karma or for any other reason) is wonderful.
So, yes, ultimately it is true, there is no such thing as individual karma, as there is no such thing as being an individual.. we all learn this eventually.. but until we learn this lesson, "manning up" and "womaning up" for our actions, even as little temporary beings is entirely appropriate. Forgiving ourselves is one of the most powerful ways to clear "individual karma". Let it go--let it flow..
that is the power of forgiveness.
Now there IS a thing called group karma. It too is very simple, once we understand it.
The Multiverse/Universe exists, due to OUR core being (the sparks, the Atman). We need to take responsibility for our actions. That is group karma.
In a manner of speaking, the Boddhisattva vow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva_vow
is not optional. If you are here.. you took it. It's all good..
The reason it's all good.. is that the real you deserves a capital Y; its You that took the vow, not you. The Atman is quite up to this or any other task, with utmost humor and enjoyment.
Love,
Kev |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2011 : 02:06:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lizmoran
But I don't think it's a safe place to live. I could easily fool myself into thinking that I'm in that place when I'm not. And what evil would I be capable of while I'm busy fooling myself? I don't want to find out.
Not more evil than what you are capable of doing even without thinking you were there.
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2011 : 09:31:34 AM
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Hi Manigma! LOL! Checkmate! You got me! That was incredibly liberating. Thanks!
Hi Nirmal! You're right. It is a place I should nurture. I'm just terrified of experiencing a particular pain again and even more terrified of unknowingly inflicting it on someone else. Magnima made me realize I'm being silly.
Time to let go... And now it's time for work!
much love
--Liz |
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bad karma?
