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nirmal
Germany
438 Posts |
 Posted - May 31 2011 : 06:52:00 AM
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Hi everyone,
I enjoyed reading your post, Anthem11. But I've been thinking Even after trying to make amends(some unsuccessfully,some successfully) with those throughout life, does one Still create bad karma,to follow into the next life and/or this life? Or is bad karma neutralized when repentance/forgiveness/amends are made?
 nirmal |
Edited by - nirmal on May 31 2011 07:41:30 AM |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2011 : 2:56:23 PM
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| Remorse, confession, repentence, etc., cancels past negative karma. Being kind, doing service, etc., builds new positive karma. Meditation, pranayama, etc., builds massive good karma and cancels massive past negative karma. The result of liberation is the ultimate good karma fruit. So karma is not so much a worry; yet, one shouldn't think there is no such thing. Doing wrong will result in painful circumstances. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2011 : 3:24:40 PM
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Try thinking about Karma more like inertia (physics). Past and future are products of the mind/ego. When you are aware, every moment (and direction) is new.
Peace & Love. |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jun 01 2011 : 04:29:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nirmal
...does one Still create bad karma,to follow into the next life and/or this life? Or is bad karma neutralized when repentance/forgiveness/amends are made?
You are the giver of life to all. Why are you even worried about this or next life or good/bad Karma?
Look into the mirror of your soul
Love and hate are one in all
Sacrifice turns to revenge and believe me
You'll see the face who'll say:
I love you... I'll kill you...
But I'll love you forever
~Enigma
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nirmal
Germany
438 Posts |
Posted - Jun 01 2011 : 07:59:46 AM
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manigma,
I understood karma was a universal law. Is this not so? n. |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jun 01 2011 : 08:45:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nirmal
manigma,
I understood karma was a universal law. Is this not so?n.
It is... as long as you think you are confined under a Universal law.
Karma, past actions, bear fruits only when we have a feeling of my-ness for our bodies.
This fallacy that the body is myself is the cause of creating in the imagination the idea of past actions. But how could something be true that is imposed or imagined about a fallacy?
From where can a thing be born which is not real in the first place? What has not been born, how can it be destroyed? How can a thing that is unreal have past actions?
The my-ness with the body is the result of our ignorance and it is destroyed totally by enlightenment. Then how does the body remain? It is to satisfy this doubt of the ignorant that the scriptures have outwardly attributed the continuance of the body to past actions.
It is not to explain to the knowers but to satisfy the ignorant that the scriptures say that "body etcetera is true" and that there is accumulated karma, past action.
Heartbeat of the Absolute
http://www.balbro.com/heart/
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nirmal
Germany
438 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2011 : 06:06:56 AM
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manigma,
What can I say? When you are right, you are right! I have read the words of Osho, thought a lot; had debates with myself. At the end, I concluded that you were right, and I thank you for helping me to open my "eyes" to the truth, which is one of the biggest reasons I am here in the first place. Salutations to you, manigma!
Yes, but where does this lead us about justice? At least with karma I was at peace because I knew the law of karma would set all things to right, keeping everything in balance.
 nirmal |
Edited by - nirmal on Jun 02 2011 07:48:26 AM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2011 : 09:04:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nirmal
...but where does this lead us about justice?
A girl being raped and then murdered thinks she is being hurt and suffers pain.
The guy who is raping is lost in desire for pleasure.
The judge would investigate and bring justice per law.
In reality... the girl being raped, the rapist and the judge are all perfectly silent.
And so are you.
Because you are neither the girl, nor the rapist nor the judge.
You are that which existed even before this Universe was born, before justice/injustice and karma came into existence.
And you will remain even when everything ends.
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2011 : 09:12:08 AM
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If we take a life, and the person dies unwillingly and wants his life back, can we give it to him? What right do we have to take something that we cannot return?
If we do not live with the consequences of our past actions and do not learn and grow from them, are we truly living?
much love
--Liz |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2011 : 09:41:02 AM
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| Raping and killing are acts of taking that which can never be returned. They are actions done in the complete absence of love if you view love as an act of giving. While our souls are eternal, I think our actions can have a profound impact on our souls. We can pollute our souls with actions in the absence of love, or we can let our eternal souls shine forth all clean and bright by acting with love. If our eternal souls are but one drop in the ocean of total consciousness, a polluted drop can still pollute the waters around it. If enough drops are polluted, the ocean itself becomes polluted and unable to sustain life. And then our eternal souls die with it or we become empty and devoid of life like the ocean around us. |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2011 : 1:38:36 PM
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| Whether you are liberated or not, karma is a universal law. You cannot do wrong and expect no bad consequence. Or right either. The import of liberation is the spontaneousness of love and service for all. This quality is deeper than karma, but spontaneous actions of love have consequence. Karma is a law. There's nothing to worry about here. |
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nirmal
Germany
438 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2011 : 3:56:05 PM
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If what you're saying is true, manigma, then what's the point of all of this thing called life? Why do we exist then? Is earth then not a school for learning or can we do anything we want inluding rape,murder and carnage unheard of what man can do to himself?
Rape is not beause of a desire of pleasure, but a desire for power. In this illusion, neither the girl being raped, the rapist, or thejudge or I are not silent(although within we all are), and this illusion is painful. And I, the girl, the rapist and the judge and All on this planet are All one and not separate.
nirmal |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2011 : 10:57:19 PM
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| Manigma is talking like an Advaita yogi. But unless you have the realization of a Nisargadatta, such talk is very counterproductive to one's life. If you have that realization, then taking care of karmic action is nonconceptual and automatic. |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2011 : 03:03:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nirmal
If what you're saying is true, manigma, then what's the point of all of this thing called life? Why do we exist then? Is earth then not a school for learning or can we do anything we want inluding rape,murder and carnage unheard of what man can do to himself?
Rape is not beause of a desire of pleasure, but a desire for power. In this illusion, neither the girl being raped, the rapist, or thejudge or I are not silent(although within we all are), and this illusion is painful. And I, the girl, the rapist and the judge and All on this planet are All one and not separate.
Question: I have heard that all Buddhas in the past, present and future preached the same dharma and countless beings were saved from suffering. Is this not true?
Bodhidharma: You have heard someone speak of dreams, and you yourself are actually dreaming. Whatever you figure with your dualistic mind never makes a true account of mind essence, therefore, I call you a dreamer. Dream is one thing and realization another. Do not mix them together. Wisdom in the dream is not the real wisdom. One who has true wisdom does not hold self-recognition. Buddhas in the past, present and future are in the realm beyond cognition.
If you can shut off your thinking faculty, blocking off the road of your mind, you will enter a different sphere. Until that time, whatever you think, whatever you say, whatever you do is nothing but foolishness in dreamland.
All buddhas preach emptiness. Why? Because they wish to crush the concrete ideas of the students. If a student even clings to an idea of emptiness, he betrays all Buddhas. One clings to life although there is nothing to be called life; another clings to death although there is nothing to be called death. In reality there is nothing to be born, consequently there is nothing to perish.
The White Lotus
http://www.balbro.com/lotus/
The day you die... all your worries for others, concepts of life, justice and karma will end with you.
So instead of worrying about others or justice and karma... if you can just sit down quitely for 5 minutes, it would be worth living a thousand lives.
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2011 : 03:05:15 AM
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PS: And always remember:
"Dharmakaya has no form, therefore one sees it without seeing. Dharma has no voice, therefore one hears it without hearing. Prajna has nothing to be known, therefore one knows it without knowing. If he thinks that he is seeing, he sees it incompletely. If he thinks that he knows it, he does not know it thoroughly. When he knows it without knowing, he knows it completely. If one does not know this, he is not a true knower. If one thinks that he is gaining, he is not gaining entirely. When he gains nongaining, he owns everything. If one thinks that he is right, his righteousness is not perfect. When he transcends right and wrong, his virtues are accomplished. Such wisdom is the gate-opener to a hundred thousand gates of the higher wisdom." ~ Bodhidharma
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2011 : 08:53:50 AM
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Hi Manigma: Thanks for sharing your wisdom. Just speaking for myself... I'm not ready to live this way. Either some day this will resonate on some deep level or it won't. For now, transcending right and wrong seems like dynamite. I don't want that kind of power. And in the meantime, I'll just live my dream with everything that I am, and hopefully that's good enough.
Much love,
--Liz |
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nirmal
Germany
438 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2011 : 09:59:18 AM
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What you say and what I have read, I am clearly not yet ready at this stage of my path to practically(if that's possible!)apply this to my life.
I will continue to follow my heart and instincts to steer me on this journey, and, who knows,maybe if,by the Grace of God I am awakened or further, maybe these words will have new meaning for me.
I do thank you manigma, for all your help, and giving me a peek into a doorway I have never visited before! Maybe once again in future, who knows?
nirmal |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2011 : 10:34:20 AM
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Manigma is correct, but as many of you have said, it is a big jump and you can create suffering for yourself worrying about it. A simple step might be...
For others Karma... Don't judge. You don't have all the facts and it is not your call. Don't worry about it.
For yourself... Remember, when you pay attention, every moment is new. Let the past go and don't let yourself get caught in autopilot mode. Karma hangs out with the autopilot...
Peace & Love. |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2011 : 1:45:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lizmoran
Hi Manigma: Thanks for sharing your wisdom. Just speaking for myself... I'm not ready to live this way. Either some day this will resonate on some deep level or it won't. For now, transcending right and wrong seems like dynamite. I don't want that kind of power. And in the meantime, I'll just live my dream with everything that I am, and hopefully that's good enough.
Much love,
--Liz
When you practice yoga, inner silence takes you there naturally. |
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Medea
Netherlands
115 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2011 : 3:41:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Karma hangs out with the autopilot...
Thanks for that sound bite Jeff :) Good one to remember every now and then. |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2011 : 10:16:40 PM
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Hi Nirmal! Thanks for creating this post. There's big growth going on over here, thanks to you.
Hi Jeff! I can do that. Thanks!
Hi Manigma! I just realized.... I think you believe the soul, the core essence of who we are, is constant -- immutable by any human action or circumstance. That idea is completely new to me. But it's something I can grasp and accept and actually look forward to understanding a bit better.
Hi nodoubt! I hope meditation does take me better understanding.
But I also just wanted to say... You're talking to women about rape and murder and about how it all doesn't matter because it isn't real. Do you have any idea how frightening that is or how callous it sounds? (Particularly to someone who has been sexually assaulted!) Is there a less inflammatory example you can pull out of your back pocket for the next newbie yogini to come along?
Much love,
--Liz |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2011 : 10:27:54 PM
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A little bit each day does make a difference.
Be Happy.
ALL the Love. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2011 : 10:29:05 PM
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Of course it matters. That is why karma exists. If nothing mattered there would be no karma.
There are kinds of consciousness where you may see that nothing matters because it is all illusion, but that is beyond this normal everyday world.
In the normal everyday world most of us live in, we take physical action, and others are affected, and there are consequences.
Don't be fooled by "spiritual talk" where people mix things from different worlds. In a world where "we are all one", and "everything is illusion", words are not used either because they are only representations, not reality. |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2011 : 02:24:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lizmoran
Is there a less inflammatory example you can pull out of your back pocket for the next newbie yogini to come along?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO45ZiGql8E
Enjoy.
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2011 : 02:38:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nirmal
I do thank you manigma, for all your help, and giving me a peek into a doorway I have never visited before! Maybe once again in future, who knows?
I have told this to you earlier also.
Nir means without and Mal means dirt.
Pure.
Realise it now or in the future.
You are, was and will be... nirmal.
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bad karma?
