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emc
2072 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 12:24:01 PM
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Dear Carson, 
I'm often speaking to former drug addicts and I gently try to suggest to them to start meditating. The most common answer I get is something like this:
"Oh, **** no. I'm way to scared for that! I'm afraid that if I go into those states again, I'll never get out. Either I'm never gonna be able to get out of it, or I'll go nuts. I get scared just by talking about it!"
And further questions reveal that they sometimes have experienced great openings and bliss and oneness etc, but then it has turned into chaotic, demonic and scary stuff... Those I can easily understand have a fear of getting stuck there... but I've also met the same fear in those who mainly have positive experiences.
From your experience, what would you tell such a person? What is the difference between a trip and meditation experiences? What could you tell such a person that might ease his/her fear?
Thanks in advance!
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 1:17:38 PM
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Hi emc
quote:
Originally posted by emc
From your experience, what would you tell such a person? What is the difference between a trip and meditation experiences? What could you tell such a person that might ease his/her fear?
The only difference between a trip and a meditation experience IMO is that one is externally forced on us and the other comes from within. (wow... wicked deja vu as I write this). Essentially, anything can be experienced at any time and to fear meditation because it could catalyze a scary experience is like saying "I'm never driving a car cause I could get in a car accident". It's really a shame to limit oneself simply because something could happen.
Both meditation and "tripping" can be catalysts. And the type of experiences they catalyze depend on an infinite number of factors and we can never know what we are going to get experience-wise. Again, refusing to meditate because one could have a scary experience is like saying "I'm never going to eat apples because there could be a worm inside." Sure there COULD be a worm inside, or there could be nothing but sweet tasting apple inside. If we limit life based on the "what if's" we are never going to have a full experience.
Personally, I used to go looking for "bad trips." If I took mushrooms, ketamine, LSD or any of the hundreds of "research chemicals" or something, I did so looking for a difficult trip. It is the difficult trips that hold the most value. They are the ones that teach us the most about ourselves. So I guess a lot of this comes down to intention. Does one want to grow and expand and become the best human being possible? Or does one want to stay in their comfort zone? Staying in the comfort zone results in stagnation IMO. It's only when we push ourselves out of our comfort zone that we can actually grow.
There are going to be people that will avoid difficulties at all costs. These people are going to be very difficult to convice to try anything they are not already comfortable with. But then there are those who are truly looking for more in Life. These are the people, that with some loving prodding, may choose to step outside of their comfort zone and address some of their fears.
I think the best thing we could say to someone with a fear of meditation is that their idea of what meditation looks and feels like is very rarely going to sync up with their actual experience of meditation. Also, you can explain that meditation does not produce instant results/states like a trip often does. It takes time and a consistent effort to be able to recognize the results of meditation. And that as their state of mind changes due to the accumulated results of a properly paced meditation practice, so will their fears about these states of mind. Meditation produces equanimity and balance and gives us the ability to face any state of mind with poise and serenity.
Don't know if this was helpful or not. Would love to continue to discuss this.
Love!
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 4:51:54 PM
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Thanks Carson,
I find the first 4 parts of the post very informative and probably very correct, although I would not think telling the person such things would have him or her less scared.
quote:
I think the best thing we could say to someone with a fear of meditation is that their idea of what meditation looks and feels like is very rarely going to sync up with their actual experience of meditation. Also, you can explain that meditation does not produce instant results/states like a trip often does. It takes time and a consistent effort to be able to recognize the results of meditation. And that as their state of mind changes due to the accumulated results of a properly paced meditation practice, so will their fears about these states of mind. Meditation produces equanimity and balance and gives us the ability to face any state of mind with poise and serenity.
I guess this is something about what I was thinking...
However - in order to continue the discussion...  is it really true? I have never taken drugs, so I wouldn't know, but when I talk to these people, and they explain their experiences, it sounds VERY similar to what I experience in meditation or when on a "high". (And when talking about it, it's as if we are both drawn to that place as we're talking. Crown chakras opening etc.) So I imagined they would sort of have the "channels open" and come there much quicker and easier if they start meditating!? No? Is that a myth I invented myself?
Cause when I sometimes have mindfulness practices in the classroom, or have a personal talk with them and stillness enters, they very quickly say "whooo, I recognize that, sh*t, I just flew away". Isn't that very "in sync" with their idea of what will happen if they start meditating seriously? So they might very well know what's ahead? And that the results of meditation may hit uncontrollably in another way than in people who have not "opened the channels" with drugs before? Have you no experience of that, or know of that from others?
One woman said "You know, I can go "trippin' on life" easily. I just stop thinking and everything goes black and then it's like I walk 3 meters above the ground, sailing in bliss." And it was so scary for her when everything went Empty, so she avoided that! And I just thought "sh*t, I'd give anything to be able to blank my mind and go empty like that"  She had the "gap" right there, and she didn't want it... But I understood she was probably not grounded enough and had no understanding of what was happening, so it became scary for her. More like a dissociation...
Perhaps one could suggest that short meditations every day would stabilize such abrupt experiences and if you taste that void a little every day, the nervous system will adjust and you will become more and more accustomed to it and start enjoying it immensely, when it's more in control... that instead of having a drug opening them up, they can sit in the drivers seat themselves and actually learn to find balance with the means of opening practices and integrating grounding in between?
That the possibility of gaining some understanding and control can reduce the reluctance and fear?
Is it possible that they might have a conditioning that when you are on highs nothing else, or very little, in your life functions as normal? Can that be a reason why they are scared, and think they will be "stuck" there? (... they might think they will be stuck in an addiction again somehow?) That reassuring them that life will continue just as normal, they can still work, be social, have their families etc even though they open to these states slowly?
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Edited by - emc on Feb 15 2011 4:56:55 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 5:09:42 PM
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Hi emc
I'm not sold on the idea that we as "outsiders" can convince anyone of anything let alone convince them to release their fears. We can only do what we are inclined to do to help another, and from there it is up to them.... we each have our own karma.
Yes, drug experiences, especially psychedelic experiences can indeed mimic the states one can get into with meditation. And for some, it is probably possible that doing lots of psychedelics has caused them to be extremely ripe for meditation practice and that things will progress a little too quickly. This is also how it is for some people who have never touched drugs in their life though. Some are more ripe then others. Not sure if drugs have a lot to do with it or not. Seems that they can play a part, but who knows what has gone on in past lives or is going on under the surface right?
Do you think there is a possibility that *your* energy has something to do with how/what your clients are experiencing (in) meditation?
As you know, the ego is going to fight the whole way out. Drug experiences can often shut the ego off and people have what is commonly caused "Ego Dissolution" experiences (also called a +4 experience on the Shulgin rating scale). If one is not adaquately prepared for this, this is aboslutely terrifying. Getting a taste of ego dissolution in meditation after having a terrifying +4 experience on psychedelics could easily trigger "the fear" in someone. I think that your idea of opening them back up to this slowly and with lots of loving support is going to be crucial (obviously this only applies if they are willing to even give meditation a try).
For someone who genuinely has a fear of ego dissolution and who has these types of experiences in their very first meditation sessions you will need to perhaps tailor a "custom" practice. You may have to try breath meditation over mantra or mindfullness, you may have to start with some serious grounding first.... you may have to leave meditation well alone until after "the fear" can be adaquately dealt with through alternative therapy methods. I don't think there is going to be any one standard solution for people who are THAT sensitive. Above all else, I think an environment in which your client feels comfortable, safe and loved is going to be the most important factor in overcoming these deep seated fears.
Hope this was helpful.
Love!
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stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 11:09:17 PM
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Hi emc,
You might suggest to them that unlike a drug induced experience, meditation can be stopped at anytime. Maybe try explaining to them that it isn't like LSD or Mescaline where you just have to ride out for the 4-8 hours it takes for the drug to work through your system. Of course they might still have overload symptoms if they are really sensitive, but at least a bad trip during meditation can be halted instantly. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 12:00:48 AM
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Ask if they've ever experienced an exceptionally restful night of sleep, and woke up the next morning feeling like something changed? Like a weight has been taken off their shoulders, and life is somehow easier than yesterday?
And maybe they wondered how could there be such a huge force so benevolent, and why would it favor me?
That is much more the kind of feeling I have gotten from meditation than trippy stuff.
I do have awfully weird dreams though, but clearing obstructions in the nervous system seems to have minimized the dark side of them. Now they are just surreal, closely connected to reality, fears more based on the real world rather than demonic stuff. |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 12:08:07 AM
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Hi emc and Carson :)
You know I did a lot of drugs when I was young, back in the hippie days. Pot, hash, mescaline, LSD, speed, mushrooms, alcohol...
I haven't done any drugs at all for over 25 years now.
Drugs are bad. They destroy the body, spirit and mind.
Alcohol destroys brain cells. Pot destroys brain cells. Most all drugs destroy brain cells or vital parts of the body/mind/spirit.
In my psychology classes at university, they showed us pictures of brains from alcoholics, potheads and other drug takers. There were dead spots in the brains. No activity. Holes. Even pot smokers showed brain damage near the frontal lobes where short term memory exists. To end it all, they showed a video of "This is your brain on LSD". It showed the brain cells exploding, like someone had detonated mutliple bombs in the brain.
The effect of taking drugs is that it creates holes in the aura. The aura is the body's natural mechanism which wards away entities, energy sucking spirits and demons or whatever you'd like to call them. When there are holes in the aura, eventually these dark entities find a way in, and worse yet, the hole is a way for your perception to see into the other planes. Yes, lower planes do exist, filled with reptilian, demonic look creatures. Black blobs that feed off of your lower energies. There is even a plane that is a 'sea of naked people' just standing there, and if you fly too close to them, they reach out and hold you down. I've seen that a few times.
I can well understand why someone who has had bad trips does not want anything to do with meditation. Any experience which is controlled by the drugs that you are taking diminishes your will power and your ability to get out of the situation, or cope with it as in the case of intense fear, or fear of dying.
The point here is that the difference between meditation and taking drugs is that most of the time a meditator can stop the experience. But a drug taker cannot and has to wait for the effect of the drug to wear off. Alot can happen during that waiting period! Deep psychological harm..
So it would seem to me that they key to getting someone to meditate is to tell them that they will be able to get out of any bad experience that they get into during meditation. But that is not the case. Sometimes, the holes in the brain/aura still exist and if their attention ventures too close they are caught once again in the bad experiences. Also, some some chemicals are stored in the body and brain and can be released months or years later, percipitating the bad experiences all over..
I'm so glad that I have been drug free for as long as I have. Hopefully my brain cells have grown back, there are no more holes in my aura and I've fully recovered. I deeply regret taking drugs in my younger days. I'm so happy to be free of looking for pushers, living for my next fix, thinking that drugs was any kind of answer.. Life is the miracle on it's own, you don't need drugs to tell you that or experience that.
I have had many experiences with drugs. I guess the worse ones were when a friend of mine blew his head off with a shotgun while stoned on acid, and my cousin who hung himself in jail when he was high.. There are others too.. I think you get the point.
Yoga is a method to naturally (without drugs) discover the wonders of one's own being. I cannot understand why anyone who does yoga, who is truly devout in seeking God, would ever turn to self-destruction or self-inquiry through drugs, or even suggest that someone should try to incorporate any drug in their routines or practices.
Emc, I would not recommend telling anyone who has done drugs to start to meditation until they have repaired all the damage they have done. Even then, the memories of their bad experiences will exist perhaps permanently, so even if they get to the point where they are healed physically/mentally/emotionally, they would have to overcome their memories. When you put your hand in the fire and it hurts, it is hard to convince someone to put their hand back in the fire. So, it would be hard to convince someone to do the kind of meditation that produces altered mind states, like deep silence, trance states and other forms of altered consciousness. What might work instead, is a form of advaita self-inquiry, as in an intellectual search for "who am i?". Focus on the awareness/presence. Either that or focus on bhakti, lots of prayer and healing from their chosen ishta.. I like Jesus because he is always there. But most importantly, influence others by serving as an example.
On a different level, remember, Nisargadatta and others have clearly indicated that "there are no other persons" and that one should focus on discovering your Self first, before trying to help others. Buddhists believe that first you become enlightened, then you can focus on others. I wonder how that plays out once you discover that there are no 'others'..
My three cents..
:)
TI
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 11:07:15 AM
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From experience, only when someone is prepared to change can anything be offered. They also have to be 100% committed to changing, 99% will not do and they need to be coming to you for help.
There is always a feeling of needing to 'rescue' someone from their own predicament. I always return to the old lady being taken across the road by a boy scout just because she happened to stand by the roadside contemplating how difficult it had been to cross that particular road in the first place before shortly finding herself back where she started.
I was reading a journal of an emminent therapist who had worked with a young guy to ween him off his destructive lifestyle only to fail completely. The guy hit the bottom of life's rocky road eventually and got himself back on the rails when the time was right.
It's the assumption that someone has to avoid this stage of the journey and that they need be rescued which is faulty. I have long given up trying to change the world like an evangelist. If something is presented to me then I will try and help as much as I can, otherwise it's often better to let nature take it's course. Always ask who you are really helping when embarking on any support process, invariably the finger points back to you.
Work on yourself first because that is all you are really doing anyway so cut out the middleman.
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 12:13:48 PM
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I was introduced to Spirtiuality / Meditation by a drug addict. He was my cousin brother... a very handsome lad. Unfotunately he never did meditation himself and sunk his life in darkness.
But I have met hundreds of people, addicts that gave up drugs instantly when they met a Guru and tried meditation. Its strange but it works.
I guess all they seek is real love. And when they find it within they realize its the right path.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 1:32:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
I was introduced to Spirtiuality / Meditation by a drug addict. He was my cousin brother... a very handsome lad. Unfotunately he never did meditation himself and sunk his life in darkness.
But I have met hundreds of people, addicts that gave up drugs instantly when they met a Guru and tried meditation. Its strange but it works.
I guess all they seek is real love. And when they find it within they realize its the right path.
Everyone is on their own journey. Drugs, hardship, meditation, Gurus's are all just part of the scenery. The path everyone takes is exactly the right path because it is the only path they can take. That it might include what some might call 'darkness' does not mean that it is the wrong path.
"Though I walk through the valley of death I shall fear no evil" |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 4:18:28 PM
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This evolved into an interesting thread. Thanks all who contribute!
@Carson, Hm. What on earth did I write that made you make the assumption I'm trying to convince anyone? Oh dear, I can see it now. I wrote:
quote:
I'm often speaking to former drug addicts and I gently try to suggest to them to start meditating.
Jeez, can really be interpreted as if I'm on a mission, can't it?  I see now why the topic has come to circle around something that feels utterly unfamililar to me (convincing, pushing some unwanted "help" onto others etc). =) That's how it goes when commication is not clear enough, and there's room to make assumptions, and then people follow the first person's assumption and answer from that, and so on...
Sorry, I'll give a more correct back-ground. I'm employed by former drug addicts who run a social company. I work as a teacher in the adult education they are running, which in turn is open for the public AND for those who work at the company that may wish to increase their comptetence. The company work with empowerment and support people to a better life - whether they have been on drugs or not, whether they are employed or come as students.
I have a 2 week course in health development during the 40 week long vocational education, so one day during that health course I teach about alternative methods like yoga and meditation. It is of course voluntary to participate in the trial mindfulness practice we do for 5 minutes. However, I am open about my own AYP practices and then colleagues and student sometimes asks questions, so I talk a lot about how meditation changed my life. And I also often have personal talks with both colleagues, friends and students who live a stressful life and they ask me for help, since I'm the health "expert" as a Ph D in public health and a former stress researcher, health coach and meditation instructor. It's my job to coach people to a better life. How can I not suggest to try meditation? It is the best anti-stress method there is, according to my own experience, and now it is beginning to get confirmed also by science. I don't have any personal agenda or idea of "opening them up" in any way. I inform them and ask "have you ever thought of trying meditation?"
And in those moments, I feel I have not been able to give a good answer when particularly former drug addicts expose their fears, as I explained above, since I don't have a drug background. I know too little about the similarities and differences from meditation. That's why I asked this question. I've only seen the funny video with Eckhart Tolle where he tells about how he decided to try LSD just in order to be able to speak about these differences, from own experience, cause many drug addicts asked him if it was the same thing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysYXO43dGtY
Of course the radiance influences people, wherever I go, and particularly in private talks. I can't help that. Don't know how to get around that.
You are right that a person can be "ripe" whether they have been on drugs or not. I also encounter non former drug addicts who sometimes gets scared when openings happen. They are usually very grateful, though, when I give some basic explanations of what's going on with them, and they are much less skeptic to try meditation as a stabilizer.
quote:
Getting a taste of ego dissolution in meditation after having a terrifying +4 experience on psychedelics could easily trigger "the fear" in someone.
This for example is very helpful for me to understand! Thank you! 
@stevenbhow quote:
You might suggest to them that unlike a drug induced experience, meditation can be stopped at anytime. Maybe try explaining to them that it isn't like LSD or Mescaline where you just have to ride out for the 4-8 hours it takes for the drug to work through your system. Of course they might still have overload symptoms if they are really sensitive, but at least a bad trip during meditation can be halted instantly.
Ah, this was excellent! Since I have never experienced how it feels to be "stuck" in something due to the drug working its way through the system, I could never have said something like that! Thank you very much!
@Etherfish quote:
Ask if they've ever experienced an exceptionally restful night of sleep, and woke up the next morning feeling like something changed? Like a weight has been taken off their shoulders, and life is somehow easier than yesterday?
And maybe they wondered how could there be such a huge force so benevolent, and why would it favor me?
That is much more the kind of feeling I have gotten from meditation than trippy stuff.
Great! Thanks! Another thing I can now refer to - that there's actually a possibility to experience it like that! Now I can say "I know a guy who expressed the difference between a trip and meditation like this:..."
@Tibetan_Ice. Thank you so much for sharing - you seem to have had a tough road with drugs! I didn't know that drugs actually caused such brain damage. Thanks! It certainly gives me a greater understanding of where they come from.
I can recognize the open "dark" links thing, though! Thanks for that reminder and the suggestions you make of waiting until some repairment has taken place. I think that is very wise. And you are right - many have a high bhakti and/or have been into 12-step program, so prayer etc is a good other thing to bring up! Muchos gratias!
@karl. I hope my clarification above has made it a bit clearer.
@manigma. I also believe they are in it for the Real Love-trip!
I actually think it is disturbing to some that the Real Love is for free, and can be accessed so easily, without all the sh*t they've been through in the drug world, trying to get it artificially. It makes their former life look even more unnecessary somehow... it's also denial and sorrow involved in that, I guess, having spent a life searching for supernice states - and then I come and offer it for free... makes them look stupid, perhaps? (talking normal human psychology here, not how it really IS) |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 5:56:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by manigma
I was introduced to Spirtiuality / Meditation by a drug addict. He was my cousin brother... a very handsome lad. Unfotunately he never did meditation himself and sunk his life in darkness.
But I have met hundreds of people, addicts that gave up drugs instantly when they met a Guru and tried meditation. Its strange but it works.
I guess all they seek is real love. And when they find it within they realize its the right path.
Everyone is on their own journey. Drugs, hardship, meditation, Gurus's are all just part of the scenery. The path everyone takes is exactly the right path because it is the only path they can take. That it might include what some might call 'darkness' does not mean that it is the wrong path.
"Though I walk through the valley of death I shall fear no evil"
Perhaps you are right. Perhaps there is no path at all. Neither any traveler.
Yet this forum itself and the comments we share might become a new path to someone who is tired of treading on whatever path life throws at them.
But then again...
Whatever happened, happened for good.
Whatever is happening, is happening for good.
Whatever will happen, will happen for good. - Lord Krishna, Gita
That's just unbeatable isn't it?
Embrace your worst fears. - Ra's al Ghul (The Dark Knight)
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 6:11:53 PM
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| Wohoo Eckhart Tolle took acid ^^ Still interesting to hear that his information filter could be loosened up by acid even further. |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 10:59:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
@Tibetan_Ice. Thank you so much for sharing - you seem to have had a tough road with drugs! I didn't know that drugs actually caused such brain damage. Thanks! It certainly gives me a greater understanding of where they come from.
...
Hi emc,
When I was growing up my next door neighbour was the high-school (no pun intended) macho dude, they called him "Zank". He had long dark hair, a beard and mustache, piercing eyes and he dressed superbly. He had pretty well the pick of the entire school for girlfriends. He was an acid head. He was stoned nearly every day. One night while walking home I ran into him. He was totally freaked out and needed me to walk him home. He kept asking me if I could see the evil red berries in the bushes.. I was shocked to see him like that. Later in his life, when he was 25 yrs old, he died of a brain hemorrhage. I've never wondered why.. What a waste.
Thanks for the Tolle video. In a way I was kind of sorry to see that. Drugs are a slippery slope and I have noticed that during these modern times, there is a much more lenient attitude developing..
:)
TI |
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stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 11:25:24 PM
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| Huh? Tolle dropped acid. Amazing. I always assumed he smoked opium before his satsangs. Sorry, bad joke. I actually love Eckhart Tolle. Whenever I feel a little off I pick Stillness Speaks or New Earth for inspiration and guidance. |
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JDas
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 11:31:01 PM
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that is AWESOME! Will repost.
Tks, dude.
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi emc
quote:
Originally posted by emc
From your experience, what would you tell such a person? What is the difference between a trip and meditation experiences? What could you tell such a person that might ease his/her fear?
The only difference between a trip and a meditation experience IMO is that one is externally forced on us and the other comes from within. (wow... wicked deja vu as I write this). Essentially, anything can be experienced at any time and to fear meditation because it could catalyze a scary experience is like saying "I'm never driving a car cause I could get in a car accident". It's really a shame to limit oneself simply because something could happen.
Both meditation and "tripping" can be catalysts. And the type of experiences they catalyze depend on an infinite number of factors and we can never know what we are going to get experience-wise. Again, refusing to meditate because one could have a scary experience is like saying "I'm never going to eat apples because there could be a worm inside." Sure there COULD be a worm inside, or there could be nothing but sweet tasting apple inside. If we limit life based on the "what if's" we are never going to have a full experience.
Personally, I used to go looking for "bad trips." If I took mushrooms, ketamine, LSD or any of the hundreds of "research chemicals" or something, I did so looking for a difficult trip. It is the difficult trips that hold the most value. They are the ones that teach us the most about ourselves. So I guess a lot of this comes down to intention. Does one want to grow and expand and become the best human being possible? Or does one want to stay in their comfort zone? Staying in the comfort zone results in stagnation IMO. It's only when we push ourselves out of our comfort zone that we can actually grow.
There are going to be people that will avoid difficulties at all costs. These people are going to be very difficult to convice to try anything they are not already comfortable with. But then there are those who are truly looking for more in Life. These are the people, that with some loving prodding, may choose to step outside of their comfort zone and address some of their fears.
I think the best thing we could say to someone with a fear of meditation is that their idea of what meditation looks and feels like is very rarely going to sync up with their actual experience of meditation. Also, you can explain that meditation does not produce instant results/states like a trip often does. It takes time and a consistent effort to be able to recognize the results of meditation. And that as their state of mind changes due to the accumulated results of a properly paced meditation practice, so will their fears about these states of mind. Meditation produces equanimity and balance and gives us the ability to face any state of mind with poise and serenity.
Don't know if this was helpful or not. Would love to continue to discuss this.
Love!
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2011 : 04:04:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
@manigma. I also believe they are in it for the Real Love-trip!
I actually think it is disturbing to some that the Real Love is for free, and can be accessed so easily, without all the sh*t they've been through in the drug world, trying to get it artificially. It makes their former life look even more unnecessary somehow... it's also denial and sorrow involved in that, I guess, having spent a life searching for supernice states - and then I come and offer it for free... makes them look stupid, perhaps? (talking normal human psychology here, not how it really IS)
Maybe its time to wear that golden robe of yours.
Well if you can bring even one guy out from the mess they are in. Its no less than a miracle.
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swaha
Lebanon
88 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2011 : 6:19:02 PM
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hi all
i thought i might share with you a video (73 minutes) called DMT, the Spirit Molecule.
i hope you can watch it till the end.
Description:
A clinical psychiatrist explores the effects of DMT, one of the most powerful psychedelics known.
* A behind-the-scenes look at the cutting edge of psychedelic research.
* Provides a unique scientific explanation for the phenomenon of alien abduction experiences. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2011 : 7:17:06 PM
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| Usually a post like that would end with a link. Or am i trippin'? |
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sagebrush
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2011 : 8:12:40 PM
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well that made me laugh Etherfish....
(what you said about trippin' with a no link watch video!
laughter like a drop of water to parched lips.! and further more, and I will rest a bit after this remark...is
how about refining a skill like this:
(Chirons post from today) " I lied to her"
now within seconds...you double back with "il-tied hero"
....
its best to adopt some sort of meditation program...in ones daily life...I AGREE with this!
s |
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stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2011 : 11:47:12 PM
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| DMT: The Spirit Molecule is an interesting book. Right now I'm reading his second one "Inner Paths to Outer space." DMT seems to have a very strong relationship to dreams and NDEs. |
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swaha
Lebanon
88 Posts |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2011 : 04:01:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
Well if you can bring even one guy out from the mess they are in. Its no less than a miracle.
Thanks, but I'm not bringing them out from the mess. They are very capable of doing that themselves. They are already clean from drugs when I meet them. They are helping themselves to a better life by getting an education. The company just presents an arena where they can grow. |
Edited by - emc on Feb 19 2011 05:19:04 AM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2011 : 06:54:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
The company just presents an arena where they can grow.
Where you can grow. |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2011 : 06:55:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
quote:
Originally posted by manigma
Well if you can bring even one guy out from the mess they are in. Its no less than a miracle.
Thanks, but I'm not bringing them out from the mess. They are very capable of doing that themselves. They are already clean from drugs when I meet them. They are helping themselves to a better life by getting an education. The company just presents an arena where they can grow.
Oh that's cool.
Now you are helping them get out from a lower level of mess.
Rise and shine!
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2011 : 10:36:31 AM
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Open question to CarsonZi
