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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 04 2010 : 2:59:11 PM
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Hi Saagaram and welcome.
There is nothing in what you say that isn't understood by many on this forum.
I have known intellectually, for many years, that to surrender all control and expectation and live in the now is the real heaven on Earth.
It's certain that there are those who can indeed make that leap and stay anchored to that point. It is logical that this must be the case.
For myself I am unable to sustain that level of none attachment. It crumbles as soon as someone gives me a restaurant menu, never mind a life threatening situation  Someone at work, a dog barking all night long when I have to be up early easily pull me into another place which has little to do with bliss.
That means for my stage of development (you can call that what you will) I have decided that some form of self imposed training is needed to keep in mind where I really am as opposed to the where I think I should be.
At present that is the AYP approach, before that it was NLP. No doubt the next thing will ahve a P in it and will consist of 3 letters.
No one is suggesting that it is the only way, or that any such way is needed at all. Most of us understand there is nothing to do, nothing to escape from, no place to get to, the issue is that most of us are not in that space. For some reason our minds cannot accept it except for the briefest of moments.
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2010 : 4:28:40 PM
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I find that the modalities of operation are constructed from cognitive limitations due to the confines of experiential narratives of similarly situated individuals. What? Huh?
Yogani, I never said I expect one way to be the same for everyone. I'm wondering if you have that attitude about your view?
quote:
In any case, the approach you are describing works best when entertained in abiding inner silence. In AYP we call that "relational self-inquiry" (in stillness) with the opposite being "non-relational self-inquiry" (in the mind). This is far more than a theory. The terminology actually evolved from the direct experiences of many who have come to it from various directions, including from the same (non)position you are describing.
So it is a fact? You've made your position very clear. I do not disagree. Or agree. If "abiding inner silence" is what you folks need, then by all means abide in silence. There's nothing wrong with it. At some point one has to observe that it doesn't last unless you keep cultivating and cultivating and you are a prisoner of cultivation. In fact, you can be arrested for cultivation. It's a serious crime (of pot), but the word play applies.
quote:
The Buddha disavowed living an extreme ascetic lifestyle, which he had done without any meaningful results. He did not disavow meditation, living a monastic live (optional), or serving others. In other words, he did not disavow effective practices. He did not disavow what you are doing either. He taught a balance between all these elements according to individual need. So if what you are doing fits your need, that's great, but don't expect it to be the same for everyone.
When he reached the levels of "nothingness" and "neither perception nor non-perception" which his gurus told him were ultimate, he realized these were not ultimate. That's what I meant by disavowed. He was not satisfied with what his so-called teachers taught him. He went one further to cessation of perception, and equated this with nirvana. But if you get the gist of all his teachings, cessation of perception happens in any mode of consciousness. And in Parayanavagga, it is stated that nirvana is an instantaneous path, which isn't accepted by the Theravada folks, nor would the Mahayana or Vajrayana people say an instantaneous path exists in the Hiniyana teachings.
I realize I may have my own interpretation of Buddha's message. I also don't think he taught meditation with the same goal you do. His was a survey course in the stations of consciousness where at the end of the survey one will see there isn't anything to rely on. Then, one can potentially wake up to reality on any level. There's no "this is the best level." He taught the deal backwards, forwards and sideways, blown out of proportion and boiled down to nothing. He refashioned it before the ears of whomever he was talking to. He really wanted people to realize you can't even hang on to this teaching. It has no fixed construction or formula.
quote:
All of which is to say, meditation of some kind (the primary means for cultivating abiding inner silence) is essential for anyone who aspires to live a non-view, represented by Krishnamurti or anyone like him. The non-view itself can be an object of constant meditation (Krishnamurti's teaching), but that approach has been found by many to not be very efficient. So more efficient and easily applied methods for cultivating abiding inner silence have been developed. It is all for the same purpose.
I now know what I must do. Thank you. I'm going to kill Krishnamurti, not only because I'm being mistaken for a guy with a comb-over. If he was truly enlightened as he said, he would have shaved it. It's simply unredeemable. Again as to your point, "meditation is the primary means..." I will quote you, "don't expect that to be true for everyone." Because non-mediation is a way hundreds of thousands of people have attained liberation in one life. And talking in a way that makes this seem false is saying something false.
The "Paarayana," as I have so awesomely coined the new word taken from the first teachings of the Buddha called the "Parayanavagga," the "Chapter about the Path on the Other Shore" boils this down and describes an instantaneous nirvana. If find these teachings very credible because Buddha is talking to non-buddhists, in a pre-sangha time. His teachings are not dressed up for his congregation. They ring with the spontaneity of someone who is just sitting around answering questions, rather than a rehearsed sermon. These are believed to be the oldest recorded sayings of Buddha. And if understood correctly, it blows to pieces what people say is "the way." That makes me happy as eating a bowl of ice cream. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2010 : 5:29:55 PM
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I'm reminded of a wonderful passage from the novel "Siddhartha" by Herman Hesse, when the main character, a "samana" and eager spiritual seeker, comes across the Gotama Buddha and engages in a metaphysical conversation with him. After a lengthy discourse, the Buddha replies with a loving smile:
"You are clever, O samana. You can speak cleverly, my friend. Beware of too much cleverness!"
I have to remind myself of these hearty words since I myself am fond of debate and playing games with words and concepts!
Namaste. |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Dec 04 2010 5:33:54 PM |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2010 : 6:14:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
I'm reminded of a wonderful passage from the novel "Siddhartha" by Herman Hesse, when the main character, a "samana" and eager spiritual seeker, comes across the Gotama Buddha and engages in a metaphysical conversation with him. After a lengthy discourse, the Buddha replies with a loving smile:
"You are clever, O samana. You can speak cleverly, my friend. Beware of too much cleverness!"
I have to remind myself of these hearty words since I myself am fond of debate and playing games with words and concepts!
Namaste.
It could also be said that no one wins in a Buddhist-style debate, least of all the one with the cleverest argument. 
The guru is in you.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2010 : 6:55:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
It could also be said that no one wins in a Buddhist-style debate, least of all the one with the cleverest argument.
Life is a cosmic dance, an exchange of leading and following.  |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2010 : 7:04:02 PM
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| No I totally see how having the better argument loses debates. |
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faileforever
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2010 : 7:04:39 PM
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| Amen to that Bodhi Tree |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2010 : 7:55:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Saagaram
No I totally see how having the better argument loses debates.
I'm not trying to make you look bad, but what they're hinting is that trying to debate a buddhist perspective shows you don't understand the buddhist perspective.
It shows you have a modality of operation that is constructed from cognitive limitations due to the confines of your experiential narrative. In other words, the "non-path" of liberation, which is filled with the silence Yogani talks about, has nothing to debate.
in other words, you can speak from the perspective of the non-path, but you can't debate from it by definition.
quote:
Yogani, I never said I expect one way to be the same for everyone. I'm wondering if you have that attitude about your view?
Yes, he was specifically talking about his AYP system being not for everyone. |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2010 : 8:04:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Saagaram
I now know what I must do. Thank you. I'm going to kill Krishnamurti, not only because I'm being mistaken for a guy with a comb-over. If he was truly enlightened as he said, he would have shaved it. It's simply unredeemable.
Nice one!
I hope you stick around for a while and tell some more jokes Saagaram!
Sometimes these advaita vs practices debates can go on and on and on ... and on. |
Edited by - machart on Dec 04 2010 8:13:17 PM |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2010 : 9:27:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I'm not trying to make you look bad, but what they're hinting is that trying to debate a buddhist perspective shows you don't understand the buddhist perspective.
It shows you have a modality of operation that is constructed from cognitive limitations due to the confines of your experiential narrative. In other words, the "non-path" of liberation, which is filled with the silence Yogani talks about, has nothing to debate.
in other words, you can speak from the perspective of the non-path, but you can't debate from it by definition.
I'm not trying to make you look bad, but what you are doing is exactly what they were doing and that was screw up what I'm saying to make yourselves look right, when you haven't said anything that makes you right.
It was all of you Yogani included who injected themselves into this thread to tell me I need to practice stuff, that somehow I don't know what I'm talking about and if I only if I have abiding silence then I will know what I'm talking about.
BTW, this quote
quote:
a modality of operation that is constructed from cognitive limitations due to the confines of your experiential narrative.
Is a joke. I'm making fun of debating by playing along using flowery language that's saying nothing, similar to what this whole thread has become.
It started out as an honest sharing. Then, it become you versus me, not because of me. Go back to the beginning and reread; it's because of you all. Maybe you feel threatened or defensive. That's not my problem.
You're right. I don't understand. I don't understand you, or Yogani or Buddhism or any of this jargon going on here. You know what? If you think you understand all this, you let me know, so I can kill you too [joke: reference to Zen saying "If you see the Buddha, kill him." Which is a reference to Mahayana sutras that say the Buddha is like space and all pervasive.].
See there's a difference between walking the path and talking about the path. This is not a some Yoda-ish. I'm talking about the difference between practice and discussion. If I was just practicing dharma, then I would never go on this site and offer any of my experience to any of you. I would just sit and wait for natural circumstances to steer me in this direction or that. I'm thinking that's probably better. Hey this is your turf.
But in all fairness grown ups ought to be able to share perspectives without claiming "I'm right and if you don't agree I'm right, it's because you don't know what I'm talking about and not only that but you don't know what you are talking about." I mean look at this thread. Read it and reread it and reread it.
Where is your yogic silence? |
Edited by - Saagaram on Dec 04 2010 9:39:07 PM |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2010 : 10:08:32 PM
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| To those of you, Karl, Machart, Bewell, thank you. I feel your welcoming presence. And I understand your perspectives. I get that sometimes it feels like you want to be free of craving and attachment, then you open a menu or a difficult situation happens and your mind feels like you don't have control. Or you feel like you have some epiphany but it's ephemeral, now here, now gone. What I do, is not worry about control or even if it's not control, not worrying about what condition my mind is in. I just let it do it's thing. I don't mess with it. It's pretty simple to me. I noticed the whole thing is ephemeral, thoughts, feelings, realizations, the lot of it is ungraspable and ineffable. It's just pure creative energy. I just kick back; it is what it is. It's wonderful. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2010 : 10:11:35 PM
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Sorry to upset you. You sounded unshakeable from your experience, so I just wrote candidly without thinking about your feelings.
I wasn't joking. That statement isn't meaningless flowery language. It's easy to understand:
"modality of operation"
is modus operandi.
"cognitive limitations"
is a limited world-view.
"experiential narrative"
is the story you relate based upon experience. But I don't prefer that kind of language either.
There's no debate. You don't need inner silence to know what you are talking about. Inner silence has nothing to do with right, wrong, truth, debating, or who's right. It has to do with developing what you were talking about; an aloof perspective.
Yes, I do understand AYP and buddhism.
I don't have as much inner silence as other people on this forum, but I'm not upset.
I'm not trying to argue anything. You are welcome to teach us how to achieve your experience.
Yogani has already written quite a lot about how his system is implemented. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Dec 04 2010 10:14:53 PM |
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faileforever
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2010 : 10:57:10 PM
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"But in all fairness grown ups ought to be able to share perspectives without claiming "I'm right and if you don't agree I'm right, it's because you don't know what I'm talking about and not only that but you don't know what you are talking about." I mean look at this thread. Read it and reread it and reread it."
I don't see anyone claiming this anywhere on this post.
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2010 : 11:44:51 PM
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| Right....quieten down kids.....lol |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2010 : 12:23:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by machart
Sometimes these advaita vs practices debates can go on and on and on ... and on.
Hi All:
Just to be clear, there is no argument on advaita vs practices within the AYP approach. One leads to the other going in either direction and the two are 100% complementary. The connection is very clear on the experiential level for quite a few here, and this is what counts.
What I will always challenge is a stand-alone intellectual approach to advaita, because it leads people into non-relational self-inquiry, which is not only ineffective for most, but can be damaging to a person's motivation to engage in everyday living, fulfill their responsibilities, etc. Natural enlightened non-duality (stillness in action and outpouring divine love) is liberation in all circumstances of life, while intellectual non-duality (in mind only) can lead to misery and despair over a falsely assumed meaninglessness of life.
Whether Saagaram is one or the other only he or she can know. But that isn't the point. The point is that telling people in a large public community that practices are not necessary is like telling people they can materialize on the other side of the country without using an airplane to get there. While it may be so for the one saying it, it is a disservice to present that as a practical approach for a broad community of aspirants.
The philosophy of advaita/non-duality can provide useful inspiration (an ideal), but there is little practical value beyond that for a large number of seekers representing many levels of unfoldment. Most will be unable to take the leap. They simply are not ripe and ready for it. For that reason, I will always challenge stand-alone intellectual approaches to realization, even if the person offering it is legitimate in their own experience.
It isn't about any particular person, or their spiritual condition. It is about what will work for the community, and the whole of humanity. Toward that end, the AYP approach to self-inquiry, and letting go into non-duality when ripe and ready for it, is presented in a way that is approachable by anyone, with clear experiential markers along the way. Many of the common pitfalls can be avoided this way.
The guru is in you.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2010 : 07:57:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
The philosophy of advaita/non-duality can provide useful inspiration (an ideal), but there is little practical value beyond that for a large number of seekers representing many levels of unfoldment. Most will be unable to take the leap.
This is my experience. Intellectual understanding vs unknown leap.
quote:
Originally posted by saagaram
What I do, is not worry about control or even if it's not control, not worrying about what condition my mind is in. I just let it do it's thing. I don't mess with it. It's pretty simple to me. I noticed the whole thing is ephemeral, thoughts, feelings, realizations, the lot of it is ungraspable and ineffable. It's just pure creative energy. I just kick back; it is what it is. It's wonderful.
Yes, again intellectually I get it. I have seen Mooji and many others who say the same thing and time after time their answers only bewilder with their stunning simplicity. In essence there is nothing and no where to seek.
For most this is a frustrating answer and because it is such a none answer. I often find myself both understanding the speaker and then marvelling at someone who can expend millions of words insisting they have nothing to say and want to politely ask him to shut the ....up.
I once met a self taught musician who had taken up guitar at the age of 15. Within a week of picking up the instrument he had mastered many of the standard rock solos. By a month he had surpassed virtually all of the ledgendary rock guitarists and had the same sort of ability that Jimi Hendrix displayed, an almost spiritual connection with the instrument where mechanical skill seemed redundant. He contended that anyone could play like this, that it was simply a matter of just picking up the guitar and getting stuck in for a few weeks.
In my map of the world this isn't the case. Instead I grind out a joy in overcoming the little hurdles that are presented while learning to play, without expectation, just enjoying the practise time and being at one with the task. In that moment I am absorbed.
I use AYP in a similar way. I have no expectations that one day everything will click and I shall be whisked away to some other worldly Nirvana. In my world things go wrong and right. AYP and NLP let me put perspective on these events, to understand that my mind makes this judgement and that there is no reality to it except in my own perspective. It allows me to ride many of the challenges that would at one time have had me kicking and screaming.
Overcoming each small hurdle gives me a sense of satisfaction because I realise I cannot control the external situations, only how I cope with them internally. The more I practice the easier this becomes and lke playing the guitar, each session and it's practical application become a simple pleasure with zero material gain.
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2010 : 08:12:32 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2010 : 09:33:38 AM
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Here you guys go controlling the conversation indirectly again. I'm not a nondualist nor do I adhere to advaita. I don't agree with this position; nor do I refute it. But it does occur to me that nonduality is a dualistic concept that requires the reference of a duality to be a meaningful concept. For me duality and nonduality are equally valid and invalid.
Yogani, This belongs back in "Other Practices" where one should be free to "tell a large community" that my practice is to jump in a lake, and that be okay. I get that "not practicing" is threatening you somehow. I'm sorry. Let's get down to brass tax.
I'm not going to respond to what anyone is saying anymore. There is a conscious effort to twist the conversation, control and manipulate it. At least, I'm being told who I am and what I'm about. Now I'm Advaita. I'm not having that...
I have something to teach folks. It's not nonduality. There is a method. Okay?
The Buddha had positive language to describe nirvana:
"Consciousness without surface, without feature, pure, luminous all around."
"Luminous is the mind monks, and it is defiled.
"Luminous is the mind monks, and it is freed."
This language describes nirvana; it also describes your present ordinary awareness or at any time. See if it doesn't. This is a method to discover your abiding unchanging freedom.
Now, if you doubt that, do what Buddha taught.
Examine the mind with 1) presence of thoughts, 2) with pleasure in samadhi where your senses are responding but no thoughts, 3) with pleasure in samadhi where your senses are not responding, 4) a sense of samadhi where you do not feel pleasure or anything else, 5) of infinite space, 6) infinite consciousness, 7) nothingness, 8) neither perception nor non-perception and 9) cessation of perception. Or look at your stage of inner silence. At each stage, either during or after see if your awareness of this state ever changes from being without surface or feature. See if your ordinary awareness in any moment or station of consciousness ever changes from being this nature.
Or you can just accept that that is the way it is, and whatever comes in the mind or goes out, the mind is freed, from any moment, it is freed. You can think of it like the Christians do and call it "Grace." You can "Forgive" yourself for having flaws and impediments, for craving, hatred and sinning. At any second, you can turn your mind to the "The Body of Christ," this common featureless undefiled awareness that we all have is the "Holy Spirit," and just know, you are freed. Before you were ever conceived, you were freed, freed by design, a freed nature, a freeman, a freewoman, primordially freed, just the way you always wanted.
Whatever bondage you perceive, your burden, is just like a dream, a bad memory, a fart in the wind and your friends are upwind not downwind. You can leave it behind. Gone without a trace. Lay down that burden and rest in your true nature. Amen.
There's no purity to cultivate. Thinking, "I'm impure, must cultivate purity," is impurity, because you are already pure. "Get BEHIND me Satan!" Don't let anyone tell you that your are defiled or that you need to be purified. You don't clean house in The Immaculate Palace of Primordial Celestial Peace.
It's like when you first jumped in the water as a child, perhaps you were hesitant to accept it would be okay. Once you did, you realized you were made for water. This world or any world is just like that.
You might wonder about the consequences of actions. Of course actions have consequences. That's what you tell any kindergartner. I'm talking to you men and women. Go free and sin no more. Go free and sin no more. Go free and sin no more...
In the Oceans of Love,
Saagaram |
Edited by - Saagaram on Dec 05 2010 10:11:12 AM |
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dave
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2010 : 09:47:43 AM
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quote:
For what to happen? No goal. Yes. I don't believe I'm liberated. I'm liberated from belief.
Since your not liberated as you state, then it follows that your ideas about liberation are merely beliefs, so your not even liberated from belief as you claim.
To be honest I find this discussion a bit confusing. I can't decide if you wanted to have an experiential discussion about your situation or just discuss the "way" to enlightenment in general.
My thoughts on the whole path no path issue, is to consider it like solving a difficult physics problem.
You know there's a solution to it and you should be able to see it. You mull it over. Let it percolate in your mind. Maybe sleep on it. Then suddenly everything pops into place and you see the answer. Its so easy.
Was there a path to that solution, I'd say there was. In order to solve that problem, I needed to prepare my mind to think in a certain way, before I could solve it.
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2010 : 10:02:23 AM
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PS: Of course life has ups and downs and sometimes you can't grind out a second of joy in it all. It is at these moments of intense suffering when you see this ordinary awareness as your ultimate refuge. It is like space, nothing touches it, yet, everything is contained within it and makes it all possible, without having to accept or reject anything. It is just like a mirror that reflects anything without discrimination. But it is not like space or a mirror in that this ordinary awareness has joy, love and pleasure in it already. It is unproduced, uncreated bliss, meaning bliss comes built in. The problem is that we are expecting a joy from circumstances. Joy doesn't come from circumstances. Joy is not caused or created. That joy is an illusion, a rope mistaken for a snake, a non-existent future, an un-relive-able memory. Real joy dawns the moment we give up the path and the search to create happiness, and just rest in our true nature. Do whatever you need to do to do what you do, but when you feel like the whole thing is a frustrating road to Nowheresville, come back to these words and refresh yourself in the truth.
An extreme suffering and bewildering confusion will ensue if you think you are ever going to get to a place in life where there is no suffering or difficulty. Only when you realize that suffering is an illusion does suffering become a non-issue in the midst of even the most intense suffering. When you realize this, you can inject yourself into the realms of suffering to serve others without the suffering impeding you. |
Edited by - Saagaram on Dec 05 2010 12:28:37 PM |
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2010 : 10:03:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dave
quote:
For what to happen? No goal. Yes. I don't believe I'm liberated. I'm liberated from belief.
Since your not liberated as you state, then it follows that your ideas about liberation are merely beliefs, so your not even liberated from belief as you claim.
To be honest I find this discussion a bit confusing. I can't decide if you wanted to have an experiential discussion about your situation or just discuss the "way" to enlightenment in general.
My thoughts on the whole path no path issue, is to consider it like solving a difficult physics problem.
You know there's a solution to it and you should be able to see it. You mull it over. Let it percolate in your mind. Maybe sleep on it. Then suddenly everything pops into place and you see the answer. Its so easy.
Was there a path to that solution, I'd say there was. In order to solve that problem, I needed to prepare my mind to think in a certain way, before I could solve it.
Sure, Dave. That's fair to say.
Edited by moderator for syntax error only (quote commands) |
Edited by - AYPforum on Dec 05 2010 10:09:35 AM |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2010 : 2:37:36 PM
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I agree and like your Christ analogy. Just "being" with with total surrender is the simple answer. I also think that you are correct that some of the members have attempted to classify you, rather than just say "good for you".
The hard part for me is as Christ said to be as a child. To completely surrender, like a child going on a trip holding a parent's hand, having complete faith that everything will work out. I sometimes worry that I have a parent or made a wrong turn. An experience of having so much energy flow that I rise off the ground makes it easier for me to "chill and let go".
Peace & Joy, Jeff |
Edited by - jeff on Dec 05 2010 2:39:05 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2010 : 2:42:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Saagaram
But I'm just wondering what could be more blissful than knowing you are already liberated and there is nothing to do?
Saagaram
quote:
Originally posted by Saagaram
This belongs back in "Other Practices" where one should be free to "tell a large community" that my practice is to jump in a lake, and that be okay.
On the one hand.......
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2010 : 3:18:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
I agree and like your Christ analogy. Just "being" with with total surrender is the simple answer. I also think that you are correct that some of the members have attempted to classify you, rather than just say "good for you".
The hard part for me is as Christ said to be as a child. To completely surrender, like a child going on a trip holding a parent's hand, having complete faith that everything will work out. I sometimes worry that I have a parent or made a wrong turn. An experience of having so much energy flow that I rise off the ground makes it easier for me to "chill and let go".
Peace & Joy, Jeff
This is a big challenge when the powerful energy comes. It reminds me of some poem I read, "It's not that we are afraid we are not stars, it's that we are afraid we are."
In this moment of powerful flowing energy, I practice not conceptualizing it. The moment I go "oh that there..." and then go, "o yea," or "o no," it goes away or gets turned into something else.
Milarepa was a yogi who talked on and on about nonduality. He had some good points:
quote:
To describe the nails of meditation, the three
All thoughts in being dharmakaya are free.
Awareness is luminous, in its depths is bliss
And resting without contrivance is equipoise.
Here's more on that point:
quote:
When thoughts that there is something perceived and a perceiver
Lure my mind away and distract,
I don't close my senses' gateways to meditate without them
But plunge straight into their essential point
They're like clouds in the sky, there's this shimmer where they fly,
Thoughts that rise, for me sheer delight!
When kleshas get me going and their heat has got me burning,
I try no antidote to set them right,
Like an alchemistic potion turning metal into gold,
What lies in kleshas' power to bestow
Is bliss without contagion, completely undefiled,
Kleshas coming up, sheer delight!
http://people.tribe.net/yeshe/blog/...f9ec1c48051d
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Saagaram
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2010 : 3:22:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by Saagaram
But I'm just wondering what could be more blissful than knowing you are already liberated and there is nothing to do?
Saagaram
quote:
Originally posted by Saagaram
This belongs back in "Other Practices" where one should be free to "tell a large community" that my practice is to jump in a lake, and that be okay.
On the one hand.......
Yeah that's funny. When Osho was asked what he thought of Mother Teresa, he said in that slo mo voice of his... "I... think... she... should... jump... in... a... laaaiiika..."
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Paarayana
