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RO0o
Argentina
40 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 4:12:48 PM
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Why do I want to realized the Self if I am already That?
Why I desperately want Self-realization?
Why the Self would be interested in any practice to realize itself?
Can the Self be lost? It shouldn't since consciousness is all that exists.
Why identify with this mind that this time wants to undertake a practice, for what?. If 'I' is also just a thought how could it be of any good that it uses other thoughts to create a process by which clear all thoughts. 'I' is still there as thought, as an object.
Is this mind tricking itself into a new process full of thoughts, which creates beautiful experiences, sometimes anxiety and frustration, other times peace, etc, but all experienced by 'I', an object.
Stopping rebirth cycle, stopping suffering, being love and peace, all those goals, that can only be of the mind, are not the same as looking for happines in material things? Just new, improved, original goals of the Ego.
If the Self is not the mind, not the body, not any object, Why should I do anything, why would I need to self realize? wouldn't it be like identifying with an object to know the subject? But the subject cannot be known by the object, so wouldn't it be in vain?
I don't know.
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 4:24:50 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2010 : 01:05:50 AM
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I am working on changing my perspective of practice. Sometimes old thoughts come up but but what can I do about that. maybe the self does not need practices, but that does not mean they would not be good for this body and mind. Physical exercise, breathing, eatign best you can, etc... make sense to do for the body. so I dedicate the practices to that. Besides we will do something with our time, makes sense to add healthy habits.
Moving forward,
Brother Neil
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2010 : 02:37:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RO0o
Why do I want to realized the Self if I am already That?
How do you know you are That?
It sounds like a seed is saying "Why do I want to be a Flower if I am already a Flower?"
Do you think a seed can feel the joy of being a flower just by remaining a seed?
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2010 : 08:42:59 AM
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Since you have so many question... you need to practice... once you have no more questions... it will not matter.  |
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RO0o
Argentina
40 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2010 : 09:02:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
quote:
Originally posted by RO0o
Why do I want to realized the Self if I am already That?
How do you know you are That?
It sounds like a seed is saying "Why do I want to be a Flower if I am already a Flower?"
Do you think a seed can feel the joy of being a flower just by remaining a seed?
It's what I believe, is not all this about a belief?
If I knew there will be nothing left to believe. |
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RO0o
Argentina
40 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2010 : 09:19:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
quote:
Originally posted by RO0o
Why do I want to realized the Self if I am already That?
How do you know you are That?
It sounds like a seed is saying "Why do I want to be a Flower if I am already a Flower?"
Do you think a seed can feel the joy of being a flower just by remaining a seed?
I don't know if that is the question, It would be more like If I'm not the seed nor the Flower, why would I want to engage in becoming a flower from a seed?
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RO0o
Argentina
40 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2010 : 09:22:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
quote:
Originally posted by RO0o
Why do I want to realized the Self if I am already That?
How do you know you are That?
It sounds like a seed is saying "Why do I want to be a Flower if I am already a Flower?"
Do you think a seed can feel the joy of being a flower just by remaining a seed?
Why would I need to feel joy?
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RO0o
Argentina
40 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2010 : 09:31:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Since you have so many question... you need to practice... once you have no more questions... it will not matter.
I have practiced sometime, and I'm here with all these questions. There have been moments of silence, but they are still just experiences. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2010 : 09:35:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RO0o
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Since you have so many question... you need to practice... once you have no more questions... it will not matter.
I have practiced sometime, and I'm here with all these questions. There have been moments of silence, but they are still just experiences.
...and keep practicing... then one day the stillness will no longer be an experience but the base from which all arises.
The only way to experience this is to practice twice a day, every day.
Someone once asked a guru, "is there no short cut?" and he said, "this (practices) is the shortcut." |
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RO0o
Argentina
40 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2010 : 09:56:48 AM
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Thank you all.
I don't know if I'm really looking for an answer or just questioning the whole thing, and writing it down.
If the 'I' appears, not by its own will, how could it be destroyed by its own will?
If it can be destroyed by its own will, why the need to do it while alive? just so the ego can experience how it feels? Is it not gonna happen anyways when the ego dies, when we die, when it's time? Even if we are born again, would the ego say Ohh another reincarnation!...?
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RO0o
Argentina
40 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2010 : 10:06:51 AM
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| Is it not enough just to believe that we are not this body, this mind, this 'I', nor anything that is perceived. When it's time, dead or alive, nothing of this will exist because there will be no 'I', no body, no thoughts, no separation. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2010 : 10:16:03 AM
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Or, why not practice? If it's what you feel is most effective for self-realization, keep doing it. It might also become something that feels increasingly good to you, especially after your practice deepens and becomes a regular friend. And it can do a lot of good for others around you too.
For bhakti driven yogis I believe the events and the deepest perceptions and thoughts during their entire waking day (and maybe sometimes in dreaming too) are dedicated to their practice. Techniques like those offered here can be a very important aspect to one's entire practice as they will increase the depth and revelations to all of the different aspects of a yogis daily practical experience.
Knowing yourself more and more as the bliss within all beings will make the practices so very rewarding. |
Edited by - Balance on Jul 30 2010 10:21:02 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2010 : 10:20:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RO0o
Is it not enough just to believe that we are not this body, this mind, this 'I', nor anything that is perceived. When it's time, dead or alive, nothing of this will exist because there will be no 'I', no body, no thoughts, no separation.
Trying to understand and believe stuff like this with the mind is going to add a lot of confusion to your life. There are no answers,
there is no understanding, no belief that will satisfy the mind. There has to be an inner knowing of this. Till then they are mind games. Look at Yogani's lesson on Lesson 329 – Pitfalls of the Mind
When the knowing comes from within, from the stillness, you don't have answers, you just don't have any more questions.
Take a look at Yogani's lessons on "relational self inquiry":
http://www.aypsite.org/324.html
http://www.aypsite.org/325.html
http://www.aypsite.org/356.html |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2010 : 1:26:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RO0o
quote:
Originally posted by manigma
quote:
Originally posted by RO0o
Why do I want to realized the Self if I am already That?
How do you know you are That?
It's what I believe, is not all this about a belief?
If I knew there will be nothing left to believe.
Believing is not enough.
You must become !!
You should divert all your energy within and sink these questions in your own heart.
You got nothing to lose have you? |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2010 : 8:10:36 PM
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Hi RO0o,
("Hope I spelled your name right ...." ) .....
quote:
Originally posted by RO0o
Is it not enough just to believe that we are not this body, this mind, this 'I', nor anything that is perceived. When it's time, dead or alive, nothing of this will exist because there will be no 'I', no body, no thoughts, no separation.
Well, sure ...... IF you can manage to do that ..... by all means.
Helpful Hint, though: belief is the problem; no belief is true.
Do you believe you're a human being?
At the level of form, you'd likely say that you feel you *know*, yes?
Beliefs can always change .... and always do .... until all beliefs finally dissolve in reality.
Knowing-by-being is as actual as it gets; so is abiding non-dual awareness, aka enlightenment.
And so, hardly any "instant advaitins" manage to sustain their non-dual realizations, because even though it may be mentally understood that this (non-duality) is the case, or even though there may be very strong faith .... identification with form is much like gravity.
People have literally gone for years in expanded states, only to come crashing down when some deep-seated, unresolved form-identification memory was attached to once again, by attention.
Plus, mental knowing still allows for very volatile experiencing, because sense-of-self resides with that which can shift.
Non-duality is wholeness; shifting happens within it, but this that we each and all ever are now doesn't shift, at all --- it's utterly real, whole and solid --- "I am taintless and immovable", as Shankara wrote, speaking as Lord Shiva, as original, non-dual wholeness.
Knowing at any level other than being is a very flimsy thing.
Most who feel they can say "I Am That", and "be all non-dual and enlightened".... are usually just an argument or two with a loved one away from "crashing down" into the dream, again.
"Hence practices."
Saying "why practice" is much like a frozen piece of river asking "why melt?"
The answer is "melt and you'll know".
The very question implies the need (to practice, to melt) ... because river water doesn't ask questions; it just flows.
Only ice has questions.
And the answer is always the same:
Melt.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Edited by - Kirtanman on Jul 30 2010 8:13:24 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2010 : 10:39:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Hi RO0o,
("Hope I spelled your name right ...." ) .....
quote:
Originally posted by RO0o
Is it not enough just to believe that we are not this body, this mind, this 'I', nor anything that is perceived. When it's time, dead or alive, nothing of this will exist because there will be no 'I', no body, no thoughts, no separation.
Well, sure ...... IF you can manage to do that ..... by all means.
Helpful Hint, though: belief is the problem; no belief is true.
Do you believe you're a human being?
At the level of form, you'd likely say that you feel you *know*, yes?
Beliefs can always change .... and always do .... until all beliefs finally dissolve in reality.
Knowing-by-being is as actual as it gets; so is abiding non-dual awareness, aka enlightenment.
And so, hardly any "instant advaitins" manage to sustain their non-dual realizations, because even though it may be mentally understood that this (non-duality) is the case, or even though there may be very strong faith .... identification with form is much like gravity.
People have literally gone for years in expanded states, only to come crashing down when some deep-seated, unresolved form-identification memory was attached to once again, by attention.
Plus, mental knowing still allows for very volatile experiencing, because sense-of-self resides with that which can shift.
Non-duality is wholeness; shifting happens within it, but this that we each and all ever are now doesn't shift, at all --- it's utterly real, whole and solid --- "I am taintless and immovable", as Shankara wrote, speaking as Lord Shiva, as original, non-dual wholeness.
Knowing at any level other than being is a very flimsy thing.
Most who feel they can say "I Am That", and "be all non-dual and enlightened".... are usually just an argument or two with a loved one away from "crashing down" into the dream, again.
"Hence practices."
Saying "why practice" is much like a frozen piece of river asking "why melt?"
The answer is "melt and you'll know".
The very question implies the need (to practice, to melt) ... because river water doesn't ask questions; it just flows.
Only ice has questions.
And the answer is always the same:
Melt.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
Beautifully put.
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2010 : 8:01:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
Beautifully put.
Thanks, Karl!
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porcupine
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2010 : 6:27:11 PM
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| No need for practice, in fact practice goes against the ultimate reality, wherein there is no practice, nor is there none practice, and one is left with a Y, like a sprout or not but that is what I percieve, like the waters, splash in them for they are rejuvenating, all who have spoken here are enlightened, and yet we are empty, only mirrors, only shrines unto Goddess, who flows, like the waters and the air |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2010 : 7:09:19 PM
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Well, here at AYP they recommend practice twice a day.
It is true you don't need practice, in the sense that you will become enlightened anyway, but probably not in this lifetime.
Practice can't really be understood by talking about it, only by doing it consistently over time.
Desire for your highest ideal and devotion, or "bhakti"(click yoga faq link) is the most powerful force to help you.
Nothing wrong with searching for answers and talking, but if you want real progress, practice twice a day and keep your desire and devotion strong the rest of the day. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2010 : 11:47:58 AM
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@RO0o
the answer to a question that should solve all your questions: do you have a choice? |
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Shivoham
India
107 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2010 : 12:25:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RO0o
Why do I want to realized the Self if I am already That?
Why I desperately want Self-realization?
Why the Self would be interested in any practice to realize itself?
Can the Self be lost? It shouldn't since consciousness is all that exists.
Why identify with this mind that this time wants to undertake a practice, for what?. If 'I' is also just a thought how could it be of any good that it uses other thoughts to create a process by which clear all thoughts. 'I' is still there as thought, as an object.
Is this mind tricking itself into a new process full of thoughts, which creates beautiful experiences, sometimes anxiety and frustration, other times peace, etc, but all experienced by 'I', an object.
Stopping rebirth cycle, stopping suffering, being love and peace, all those goals, that can only be of the mind, are not the same as looking for happines in material things? Just new, improved, original goals of the Ego.
If the Self is not the mind, not the body, not any object, Why should I do anything, why would I need to self realize? wouldn't it be like identifying with an object to know the subject? But the subject cannot be known by the object, so wouldn't it be in vain?
I don't know.
A practice or an effort towards self have always existed in your life, still existing and will go on in the future. only things different from the past efforts are that, in the past you were searching for the self unconsciously. But now you know what you are exactly searching.
Self is ultimate freedom, ultimate satisfaction, endless bliss and infinity.In the past you were searching these things in matter.Now you are searching them in the spirit which the essence of matter. You will never be able to give up the desires for these things until you attain them.
Stop if you can.
But if you can stop all the efforts, You are already reached.Then there is no question of 'why practice?' etc..
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Panthau
Austria
149 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2010 : 1:31:08 PM
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| Its the deepest question that no one ever answered yet. Why are we here and what is this perception good for? |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2010 : 1:39:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Panthau
Its the deepest question that no one ever answered yet. Why are we here and what is this perception good for?
There is no "why" in reality.
There's only IS.
"Don't try to find the answer when there ain't no questions here." ~LIVE, Run To The Water.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2010 : 1:43:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Panthau
Its the deepest question that no one ever answered yet. Why are we here and what is this perception good for?
The answer can only come from within..... and when it is found, it will be very difficult to express it through words as it can only really be Known in the Heart. Perhaps this is why it remains unanswered 
Love!
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Shivoham
India
107 Posts |
Posted - Sep 10 2010 : 12:45:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Panthau
Its the deepest question that no one ever answered yet. Why are we here and what is this perception good for?
Many have found this answer and shared it with humanity. Only thing we need to do is prove it to ourself. |
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Why practice?
