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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 06 2009 : 10:53:15 PM
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A mind boggling thing is: You may have experienced a no-thought state and don't remember it.
It's not like they create memories. They are easily forgotten because the mind doesn't want you to enjoy its absence. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Dec 06 2009 10:53:47 PM |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2009 : 09:34:47 AM
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I am pretty sure i have experienced light sleep states. I wouldn't call that a thought-free state. Again, the idea that it is even possible to stop thinking and be aware makes no sense to me.
As for Nisargadatta, i read his book and it struck me as nothing but philosophising about a bunch of things. I didn't walk away from reading it with any notable impressions. Plus i found out that the man was a chain smoker and used to shout at people. Sorry, but that is not a saint. I am not deliberately trying to run down this man but there should be a balance of views in favor and not in favor of these gurus. Otherwise this webforum runs the risk of being biased and turning away a vast majority of people.
There are lots of papers to study on meditation and similar subjects. I feel that the lack of critical review on this webforum by providing links to some papers is drastically missing. People come here and tell us that people can levitate and survive without air for long periods of time, and nobody bats an eyelid. I will respond later with a scientific paper on meditation. |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2009 : 12:04:12 PM
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Upasani Maharaj used to throw bricks at visitors, which was an even more effective a way of turning away those who were not ready for this teaching.
The Maharishi Mahesh Yogi invested huge resources in applying science to yoga and meditation and got nowhere. It's a category error.
chinna |
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yogani
USA
5247 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2009 : 12:56:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by chinna
Upasani Maharaj used to throw bricks at visitors, which was an even more effective a way of turning away those who were not ready for this teaching.
The Maharishi Mahesh Yogi invested huge resources in applying science to yoga and meditation and got nowhere. It's a category error.
chinna
Hi Chinna:
It seems you are suggesting the traditional esoteric approach for the transmission of spiritual knowledge: "Favor the gifted and drive everyone else away."
Given that we all have inherent spiritual capability and have the right to an education in modern times, do you think you are espousing a practical point of view?
If so, we should only be teaching reading, writing and math to those who are gifted, and drive everyone else away. Then it is back to the dark ages, which is what we are just beginning to creep out of in the field of spiritual education.
There were reasons why spiritual teachings (and also literacy and math) were held esoteric in the past, but those reasons no longer exist. Yet we keep hearing how only the few are qualified for spiritual knowledge and advancement. Balony!
Open science and education are the ways forward for the unfoldment of human spirituality on a mass scale. By "science," I mean verifiable cause and effect in methodology. With that becoming increasingly developed, no one will be without the means to awaken according to their own desire. There is no difference between this and the democratization of any other kind of knowledge. Yes, it is messy at times, but that is no excuse to shrink from the task. It is the only way that the whole of humanity will be uplifted.
And Gumpi, may I remind you that these are the "AYP Support Forums." If the practices are not working for you, this is not the place to be making a blanket case to convince others that practices will not work for them. We are interested in what works. If you have something to contribute on that front, we'd love to hear it. And if you need help with practices, we will be happy to do what we can.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: Chinna, millions would take issue with your belief that yoga science is going nowhere. After all, you are posting in a yoga science forum!
PPS: Nothing I have said here need be at issue with a non-dual point of view, unless of course that view is really duality in disguise, producing endless posturing and debate. Much better to focus on means than ends. If we take care of business, no need to worry about contacting God. S/He will contact us. 
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2009 : 4:10:44 PM
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Thank you Yogani. The post was specifically addressed to Gumpi. No general truth was intended. There is no faith in general truths here, ultimately.
No offence intended, though it is interesting that you describe AYP as a yoga science forum.
chinna |
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yogani
USA
5247 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2009 : 5:22:55 PM
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Hi Chinna:
Contrary to the stereotype image of scholarly PhDs with their lab coats and equipment, science is the search for ever more reliable causes and effects by any and all means possible.
That is what the AYP Support Forums are about. Admittedly, there is a lot of noise here, and an underlying resistance to change (awakening). Neither of those things have much to do with science, but are always present in any collective search for truth. Ultimately, all obstructions are overcome and the truth prevails. Evolution flows like water running downhill, steadily wearing away obstacles. With more and more people engaged in effective spiritual practices around the world, the hill is getting steeper and the water is running faster all the time. Stillness in action!
In the early stages of a new paradigm, "ragtag" science can be the best science, because it does not stand on ceremony. It only wants results. Once results are occurring that can no longer be ignored, the "white coats" come in to verify, codify and expand on what has been discovered. That is when everyone gets on board. We can look forward to it.
On a related subject, the differences you and I have had seem to relate mainly to the spiritual assistance needs of the few versus the many. We are really talking about two different things. Perhaps you are interested in the few who can go straight into non-duality school. Looking for some company? I am always looking for how to make room in a school for everyone at every grade. I like lots of company.
Certainly the few can thrive in a school for the many, but the many will not thrive in a school for the few. That seems to be the rub we have had. Perhaps we can minimize misunderstandings by clarifying when we are talking about the few or the many. Both have their place and appropriate means in the overall scheme of spiritual evolution.
The guru is in you.
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2009 : 5:55:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
I am pretty sure i have experienced light sleep states. I wouldn't call that a thought-free state. Again, the idea that it is even possible to stop thinking and be aware makes no sense to me.
as the tao said Chapter One in English
"The Tao that can be spoken of
Is not the Everlasting Tao
The name that can be named
Is not the Everlasting name
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth
The named is the mother of ten thousand things....." |
Edited by - brother neil on Dec 07 2009 5:57:26 PM |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
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WayneWirs
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2009 : 7:35:34 PM
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What a wonderful question, "Have you had direct contact with God?"
I didn't even read the replies on this thread when I came across it, so this might seem out of context.
Very politically incorrect but my FIRST experience with God/Tao/Spirit was when I was so stuck spiritually that, as a last resort, I dropped my first hit of acid (LSD). Even though I tried LSD a few more times, I never had a similar (or even worthwhile) experience after that. Something shifted within me and the drug never had the same affect again (I suspect this is true with many deeply spiritual people).
My experience, taken directly from my book, Fading Toward Enlightenment:
quote:
The ego: just a story. The Unconscious: brought to light. The Path forward: well lit. But the mind raged and the Divine remained silent. When Hope flees, Suicide tempts the depressed.
I am not proud of what I did, but this story must stay true. I had lost my glimpse of Eternity and I would do anything to regain it.
When nights never end, when the noise never stills, when the practical becomes the futile – Fear loses its power, desperate actions become feasible, and values are discarded.
On a cool and calm clear night, the full moon reflecting in my backyard pool, I sat on the deck, turned my eyes to the stars, and dropped a hit of acid.
He was raised as many children are raised – to respect his parents, to stay away from drugs and violence. To treat others with compassion, to follow the laws, to help those in need. And like most children he pushed the boundaries, tested the waters and on his own found the wisdom in the words of his elders. The values became his own and he took them into manhood. But what good are values to a man dying of depression? Where do you go when every door is locked? When the aria of an angel, once heard and cherished, is suddenly silenced?
The light burned my eyes, the air freezing cold, the blanket was coarse and rough. In the nursery, I screamed with the others that day. We wanted to return to the womb.
“Back,” I said and back I went. The dark was warm and safe and fluid. But the peace only brief, the contractions very strong and soon my head was crushing.
“Back,” I said and suddenly, I felt I was my mother. In the womb there is no Us or Them, just one without an other.
“Back,” I said and looking down, I saw my parents coupling. My father soon fell deep asleep, as my mother’s sadness drew me toward her.
Under the influence of the drug, he experiences a profound vision of his first moments of life. Never had he thought about how horrible, frightening, and painful life must be to an infant as they are overwhelmed with stimulation. This insight convinces him that the vision is a memory, not something his mind has made up. “Back,” he says and each time he travels deeper and deeper into his past.
Under the moon on that clear night, both frightened and amazed, I took a deep breath and closed my eyes. “Back,” I said, and my whole life changed forever.
Wholeness. Contentment. Joy and Bliss. Awareness without an Other. Love radiating outward into itself. No beginnings, no endings. No births or deaths. To Life, there is no opposite. (This is the God/Tao/Spirit portion memory--Wayne)
From the Stillness, a subtle tug, a tiny ripple on the empty ocean. A single twitch, a little pull and suddenly there were Two.
Ripped apart by desires unknown. She, the World and I, me. No longer One, we now were Two. It’s all my fault... Forgive me.
Like being torn from the womb, this too was a terrible separation, but far, far worse. Because he had failed to learn the lessons of his true Self, a disturbance was created in the Void. With a Big Bang this disturbance created the Universe and he was expelled from Heaven, cast out of Eden, and exiled from his Beloved.
Under the moon on that clear night, my tears turned the stars to halos. Wracked with guilt and self-disgust, I had committed the ultimate betrayal.
We had been One, but now no more, my weakness – simple desire. By wanting more, we split in two. I, the Ego and She, the World. I apart from She.
Night and Day divided by Dawn. Forever close but never joined. Two mute lovers just out of reach: destined to see. Doomed never to hear. Doomed never to touch.
What would you do to merge with Her? What atrocities would you commit? What tortures would you endure to be united once again?
He lay on the ground under the moonlight and through his tears vowed that he would do anything – anything to merge once again with Her. To be One again, he would gladly suffer life and separation and pain and pleasure over and over and over again until he finally mastered his lessons. Until he found the way to join with Her forever.
From a still and lonely lake, in a wood few people ever go, from the mist my Siren calls, “To me. To me. Please come back to me.”
When the mud settles, the waters clear.
It was all so suddenly obvious. Amazingly, all the suffering in life made sense. He now saw that after death, we merge back into the One Without an Other. Soon though, our attachments and desires create a conflict, an inner storm. For what is desire, but a lusting for something outside yourself? A lusting that cannot be satisfied in this whole, “Not Two” state. Soon the unity and stillness of the One are torn in half: the “self” and the desired Other. The universe is created, and another lesson must be learned.
Though he doesn’t know it yet, from this point on he will live in a twilight world between two realms: the Solid Life of the Ego and the Ethereal Life of the Spirit.
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2009 : 7:38:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
In the early stages of a new paradigm, "ragtag" science can be the best science, because it does not stand on ceremony. It only wants results. Once results are occurring that can no longer be ignored, the "white coats" come in to verify, codify and expand on what has been discovered. That is when everyone gets on board. We can look forward to it.
On a related subject, the differences you and I have had seem to relate mainly to the spiritual assistance needs of the few versus the many. We are really talking about two different things. Perhaps you are interested in the few who can go straight into non-duality school. Looking for some company? I am always looking for how to make room in a school for everyone at every grade. I like lots of company.
Certainly the few can thrive in a school for the many, but the many will not thrive in a school for the few. That seems to be the rub we have had. Perhaps we can minimize misunderstandings by clarifying when we are talking about the few or the many. Both have their place and appropriate means in the overall scheme of spiritual evolution.
The guru is in you.
Dear Yogani
An absolute empiricism is what will bring the most sure result, I agree.
I am not so sure that it leads into anything that will be of interest to western science, or indeed that is particularly 'useful' in this world's terms. As I say, I feel it is a category error. I am not alone in that, amongst advaitins. But I shall be happy to be proved wrong.
I am grateful for your hospitality on this forum and do not mean to abuse it in any way. I have the highest admiration for your work, and for the authenticity of the shared quest on this forum.
I have no wish to be a 'cuckoo in the nest'. I simply blurt out what comes to mind. It is for others to judge how useful or otherwise it is, and I agree on the basis of experience with the judgement that it is only for the very few and therefore of very limited use, other than for those who need it, for whom nothing else can satisfy their quest, as it was for me.
My feeling is that even if something I communicate is useful for only one person who shares this jnana dis-ease, it has served a priceless purpose. It's not for me to concern myself with 'results'.
As I have made clear on this forum before, the fact that jnana may be for the few, as a single-track path, in no way suggests it is better than any other path. There is no merit in exclusivity. Indeed, on the contrary. On the basis of numbers of people helped, it is surely pretty useless compared with many other paths. But it is of inestimable value for those, like me, for whom no other path seemed to fit; and they can only find it, or be confirmed in it, if others witness to its truth.
My aim in witnessing is just this. I witness because I am completely sure of this path, indeed it has become over the years the only 'thing' I am sure of, as everything else has fallen away, and so I feel an obligation to do so. But it comes with Eliot's health warning - 'a condition of complete simplicity, costing not less than everything'. And that includes knowing anything much else, other than what is needed for simple daily living.
Once again, thank you for your hospitality and generosity. Please do tell me if you want me to leave, at any stage. I would not be offended. I am probably too dense to hear more subtle messages to this effect - another effect of decades of jnana practice!
warm regards
chinna |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2009 : 7:39:46 PM
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Gumpi wrote:
"Again, the idea that it is even possible to stop thinking and be aware makes no sense to me."
Can your eyes see colors without having to name them?
Can your skin feel the warmth of a fire without having to call it warm?
Can your nose enjoy the smell of a rose without having to call it a rose?
Can your ears hear a waterfall without your mouth having to say "waterfall"?
This is what it is to be aware without thinking. Babies do it. We laugh at them because of their spontaneity. As adults we learn to think first, then react to keep people from laughing at us.
It takes the fun out of life.
Have you noticed that as an adult, life is not fun anymore?
This is why . . . thinking. Spontaneity is what creates fun. Thinking kills it. All to stop people from laughing at us. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Dec 07 2009 8:37:55 PM |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2009 : 8:30:38 PM
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Wayne, Be proud of that hit of LSD. It was good for you. I'm proud of the LSD, the shrooms, the weed, the salvia and even all the rotten stuff I did, because all of it was my guide.
Adamant |
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yogani
USA
5247 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2009 : 8:59:10 PM
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Hi Chinna:
Of course you are welcome, and I hope you will continue contributing. The advaita (non-dual) perspective is very valuable for those who are ready to hear it, even while posing an intellectual diversion for many others. So bear with me when I jump in from time to time to add context for the broad AYP community. A little balance never hurts. The result will be more people consciously living non-duality.
The guru is in you.
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satyan
34 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2009 : 12:59:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mystic_robert
If so, how did you get it? I seek it, because I'm worried about what I will experience when I die.
hi mystic robert,
I dont know in what context you see or perceive God because God can be defined in every possible way. If you are seeing God like a peronal god like Jesus, Buddha, Rama, Krishna, etc., YES there are people who have had direct contact with God. The most recent classic example being Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. He saw, talked, touched, played with his personal God, Bhavatharini Kali but it took him a lifetime to achieve that state and sustain it. People who have direct contact with God can be mistaken for schizophrenics by other people, but the main difference between schizophrenics and the people with direct contact with God is, the people with direct contact with God dont lose touch with reality whereas schizophrenics live in their OWN WORLD with varying degree of touch with reality. For people like me and Etherfish, contact with Divine is an everyday phenomenon, we perceive His presence in every act of His play, whenever doubts raise he answers in the way that Etherfish explained. This is also direct contact with Divine.
From my experience, more than anything else God is a feeling, a feeling when experienced will wipe off every need of this intellect, mind, and body, which when experienced will never raise doubts in your intellect, will satisfy your mind to the fullest that it will get complete and when experienced 24/7 will be nothing but Divine love in Yogani's words. When you experience this feeling you will not hit back the person who hurts but will remain as you are. Finally, when you experience this feeling you will KNOW and REALIZE that death is nothing but apparent.
Satyan |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4518 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2009 : 04:45:27 AM
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Hi Chinna,
quote:
An absolute empiricism is what will bring the most sure result, I agree.
I am not so sure that it leads into anything that will be of interest to western science, or indeed that is particularly 'useful' in this world's terms. As I say, I feel it is a category error. I am not alone in that, amongst advaitins. But I shall be happy to be proved wrong.
Scientists are not just concerned with what is useful in a practical sense. They are also concerned with understanding reality for its own sake. Understanding reality cannot go very far if it doesn't also include the spiritual dimension.
"The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection." [Albert Einstein]
Christi |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2009 : 07:16:09 AM
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Chinna wrote:
"Please do tell me if you want me to leave, at any stage. I would not be offended. I am probably too dense to hear more subtle messages to this effect - another effect of decades of jnana practice!"
Hmmm I'm the same way, but have never attributed the cause. I have noticed for years that people often have feelings that conflict with their actions. But you have to wait for them to say something. If you make any assumptions based upon strong feelings you know they have without waiting for them to say something, they will usually deny their own feelings.
It took years for me to understand women because of this. They expect you to hear their communication based upon hints they throw out, but only the hints that are intentional. |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2009 : 08:42:53 AM
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God can be quite a nebulous concept, not just because it can mean different things to different folk.
Also -God ( or trying to contact him/her)is not an intellectual exercise.
In fact yoga is like anti-intellectualism;it shows how ideas/concepts & ideas can enslave us;by trying to reinterpret raw (personal) experience it distorts it.. A bit like a dog on a Merry-Go-Round endlesssly chasing it's tail however sophisticated we try and make it out,crafting an argument here,another there.It is a tool, I mean 'rational' conceptual thinking;it is not knowledge.It does'nt resolve any kind of inner- knowing that is not concerned with thoughts or the 'conceptual conditioning of limited mind' (as Kirtan i believe might put it).Mind is not consciousness, but limited consciousness,consciousness asleep.
As someone who studied western philosophy(before switching over to pure literature) for about 5 years many yeas ago now(my goodness!- 15-18 yrs ago), i knew all this anglo-amercian empiricist philopshical thinking always appeared to me to be in danger of dissapearing , proverbially speaking, like that dog.I'm not saying excessive rational scepticism is unhealthy or even advaita, for that matter, is incomplete yoga path.I think advaiata is beautiful in it's love of paradox ,elegance and sophistry.BUt for the vast majority of people, the average joe,spiritually speaking, who are not completely awakened it is is often just little more than a headache, a conceptual teaser, or a distraction, at best.Though it does depends where you are on the 'path';Maybe someday i'll get over how corny that term can sometimes sound.
Advaitans or zen masters that say- just say, well just rest in easy awarenesss then you might find God,become enlightened, whatever- well i'm afraid this just won't cut it for most of us.Other combined methods, an integrated apporach, seem on the face of it, well..just more effective.A practice that is unencumbered by even rational thinking,beyond scepticism ,beyond language & ideas, would seem to have more chance of transcending the straight-jacket of dogmatism,or the conceptual thinking of limited-mind.
I'm still not sure what the connections might between advaita vedanta,kashmir shaivism and spanda- that's for someone more acquainted with this stuff than I to elaborate on here if they so feel inclined.
And You could say that what i am saying here in itself sounds like (received) dogma, AYP or yoga dogma, but then it's no more dogmatic than ideas or concepts or a jumble of words, anchored ,by definition, in 'mind'( as that term is inderstood in it's more limited,i.e more enlightened, sense in the east,as opposed to the west it would appear)
In fact, 'God' is possibly,or probably, the biggest joker of them all,a bit of a wild card;it could mean anything.An honest attempto to answer that directly is that it's ultimate expression is love, or 'outpouring of divine love' as Yogani puts it.Then i think( i use that term ironically) you're probably a hell of alot closer; you are closer to feeling or experiencing God.You don't have to think anything to know.Just be..No point wrapping up the word 'God' in all kinds of logically sophisticated and philosphical arguments.Unless you're not afraid in embracing paradox, non-duality and not consequently feel swallowed up by it all.
Advaita on it's own does sound like sandcatles in the sky though if it's not rooted in inner silence,relational.
And What might trip one person out,that is make no sense, might ,on the other hand, satisfy another..
Escher
Also some else said having the thought of no thoughts is a thought. Well I think even the sages of old might have had the odd thought now and again that he chose to think :).So I don't think folk are saying we are anhhilating thought as it is part of our current evolution. But if that thought does bother folk they cold always let it go into inner silence assuming they have enough cultivated through Deep Meditation to do that.
p.s i don't mean to bash advaita(it's just not practical for most people as a yoga path although i think Yogani explained this quite well),jnana yoga (in isolation),popular science,scepticism etc or attempts to conceptualise enlightenement but because it is mind ( doing all this) there is always the risk of ego muscle-ing in there,because this is a popular territory for it, and masquearading (as enlightenment,direct or superior knowledge of God,hehehe...whatever) in disguise.
I think Christi made a good point- that a lot of western science particularly research ,is often actually rather theoretical ,& academic,closed off, often by tradition rather than pragmatic, of practical value, and any assessment as to what is deemed as having 'practical value' does freq' run foul itself of being just another value judgement , and value judgements as we know often come with their own paradigms, assumptions & premises.Einstein's ideas were probably regarded as useless by the great majority of people,lay-folk , mathematicians,physicists. |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2009 : 10:54:37 AM
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Akasha, Simple presence alone, if not preceded by a proper introduction to its full nature, will not suffice. A direct introduction to the essence, nature and fruit of awareness is necessary. Otherwise, one will just be in an ordinary confused way. Often this introduction must happen repeatedly in the presence of the master over some period of time. Or one must have faith in the written instructions and just ponder them over the course of a year or so. Then, all of a sudden there is a major break in the dam.
Adamant |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2009 : 12:43:43 PM
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I believe the AYP "Star" is more important than we all think.
This may be God. |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2009 : 1:04:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
It took years for me to understand women because of this. They expect you to hear their communication based upon hints they throw out, but only the hints that are intentional.
Ah, now that is a profound issue. I am impressed you think you do. Whenever I reach that point, I soon realise that I am mistaken and am still only a beginner. There's a wonderful traditional tale of Siva playing a game of dice with his consort Parvati. Though he is all-powerful, he loses every time.
(Of course, it is in losing that he retains his position as the Absolute......)
chinna
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2009 : 1:23:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Chinna,
quote:
An absolute empiricism is what will bring the most sure result, I agree.
I am not so sure that it leads into anything that will be of interest to western science, or indeed that is particularly 'useful' in this world's terms. As I say, I feel it is a category error. I am not alone in that, amongst advaitins. But I shall be happy to be proved wrong.
Scientists are not just concerned with what is useful in a practical sense. They are also concerned with understanding reality for its own sake. Understanding reality cannot go very far if it doesn't also include the spiritual dimension.
"The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection." [Albert Einstein]
Christi
Well, yes, Einstein saw the relatedness, the 'intelligence' of eveything. Subsequent quantum discoveries, however, point in a very different (non-)direction, and leave most scientists who have understood its implications, including Einstein, as disorientated as the Deist is by advaita. So quantum gets put in a 'black box', the quantum cookbook. We use it, but don't understand it, and can't afford to let its implications infect the rest of our painstaking scientific model. The same is true of non-duality. When the concept breaks out of the box we have put it in, the rest of our painstaking model vanishes, the rapture is over. This is not useful. It's not spiritual. And it's not even understanding.
chinna |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2009 : 1:35:29 PM
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If you have ever been completely stunned with/in awe of the beauty of Life, then you have had direct contact with God IMO. I believe we have all had this at some point or another....In my opinion it is not about having direct contact with God once in a while though...it is about having continuous/permanent contact with God...whatever you define (or don't define) God as....and this is acheived through consistant daily spiritual practice and Grace. This is just my personal opinion though.
Love,
Carson |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2009 : 3:45:57 PM
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quote:
It took years for me to understand women because of this. They expect you to hear their communication based upon hints they throw out, but only the hints that are intentional.
Ouch... that's an old smelly one...  
You know, I've been fighting this presumption for many years. I'm usually more radically clear cut in my messages than many diplomatic men, saying exactly what I mean with military order clarity. And then sometimes comes a man who wonders what I actually mean by that, assuming it's some hidden hint between the lines that he has to figure out first in order to get me right... Can you imagine the frustration? 
- Close the door, please!
*hm, is she sad now? Angry? Did I do something wrong?*
- Please, just CLOSE THE DOOR. No hidden agenda, promise!
*Hm... wait, can't close the door yet - is it a feminine emotional trap that will hit back on me if I interpret this wrong now? Must be something here I don't get... women are so mysterious... *
- Ok, I'll close the ****ing door myself! You'll be on the outside! *hard kick in the butt and out he goes!*
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Christi
United Kingdom
4518 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2009 : 3:58:02 PM
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Hi Chinna,
quote:
Well, yes, Einstein saw the relatedness, the 'intelligence' of everything. Subsequent quantum discoveries, however, point in a very different (non-)direction, and leave most scientists who have understood its implications, including Einstein, as disorientated as the Deist is by advaita. So quantum gets put in a 'black box', the quantum cookbook. We use it, but don't understand it, and can't afford to let its implications infect the rest of our painstaking scientific model. The same is true of non-duality. When the concept breaks out of the box we have put it in, the rest of our painstaking model vanishes, the rapture is over. This is not useful. It's not spiritual. And it's not even understanding.
What I was implying, is that science is a search for truth, just as spirituality is a search for truth. The only real difference is that in science we start by looking at what is normally considered to be external reality, and in spirituality, we start by looking at what is normally considered to be the inner reality. But both are leading in the same direction ultimately.
Not only that, but the application of scientific method can be as relevant to spiritual practice as it is in scientific experimentation. The testing of theories, the application of cause and effect, repeatable experiments, all these things are as much a part of Yoga (and have been for several thousand years) as they are a part of science. This is why Yoga is sometimes referred to as the science of Yoga.
Quantum physics is still very new, but we are starting to see breakthroughs in science occurring, and physicists approaching spiritual truths.
I don't think non-duality gets put in any black box. As I see it, non-duality is a part of every spiritual tradition, and a very beautiful part. Non-dual teachings are a very important part of AYP, and Yoga in general. In fact, any Yoga without a teaching of non-duality would not be an integral Yoga, and would not really be Yoga at all. After all, union means union, in any language.
I would not say that the rapture is over with the shift from the dual (Deism) to the non-dual. If anything, I would say that it is just the beginning. And then God is everywhere, radiant, and there is no more internal or external.
Christi
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Edited by - Christi on Dec 08 2009 4:08:37 PM |
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Have you had direct contact with God?
