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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 03:44:16 AM
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Hi everybody..
Since yesterday, I have this running thought on my mind:
Did I ever know what Love is? Did I ever loved? Did I ever been loved?
I have been taken care of, I have shared emotions, deep emotions with others, BUT what about LOVE?
I truly don't have any clear answer about that.
And when I really go in and ask my self: "Did you ever really love?"
I can't say "yes, definitely". I can say "I had deep blissful moments of ecstasy", but to say I "Loved", I don't know.
How can I Love if I'm not even sure that I'm loving my self?
When we hate, we hate! it's a clear feeling! it has authenticity in it.
But what about Love? So many things we can hide behind this word.
Need, joy, excitement, pleasure, comfort, flowing energy, any emotion we can easily label as "Love"...
When someone says to me "Love yourself. Be yourself. Nobody loves you but yourself.", I say yes, true, this is the starting point.
To love the other, you must BE love first, you must have It yourself, for yourself first! Otherwise, there's no such thing as "Love" to share..
So I really wonder "What does "Love Yourself" really mean"???
How can I Love My Self if I don't even KNOW My Self?
And to know my self, there's no magic formula: there is meditation.
But does it mean that, unless I come to know my self, I'm unable to LOVE? This is scaring.
Please feel free to wake me up!
Thank you. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 04:23:02 AM
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Hi Christine
The word love, as you indicate has many many meanings and is probably one of the most misused words, in terms of love in it's pure sense.
When we are young and fall in love for the first time, we might say to ourselves - wow, now I know what love is!
As time goes by we discover a deeper love and realise the first was just a taster.
In terms of the love you speak of, I prefer the word "kindness". This is a much easier word for me and it speaks in the most ordinary ways, in ordinary everyday life, whether it be with others or with yourself.
Have you ever been kind?
Now WAKE UP
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Edited by - Sparkle on Jul 04 2009 04:25:45 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 09:14:53 AM
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Love is the only thing that is real.. it is our true nature.
Have we ever really loved?
Yes, to the best we knew how at any point in our life. Even when a mother punishes her child, she "thinks" she is doing it out of love. The actions can be judged right or wrong by observers, but every thing is finally done with love, even if it is completely misguided love.
The feeling of bliss you talk about is what love feels like, when your mind is still, when you are completely present.. while you watch a sunset, or listen to a piece of music, or fall in love for the first time.. you experience a no mind state for a few min, this is the experience of love. Everything originates from this, and everything dissolves into this, but after it arises, the mind grabs it and depending on our level of "no-mindedness".. we experience it either completely through our mind stories or in it's purest forms when we meditate, or are lost in those perfect moments.
Here is something I had written sometime back:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=2794#25395
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
In my own experience, the term "Love" has always been attached to many emotions and sentiments (mind filters:)). I had no idea there was something like pure love.. a feeling that is not associated with any emotion.. It does not feel like romantic love for a partner, or caring, protective love for a child, or grateful, respectful love for a parent, etc. It is just pure feeling arising from the heart with absolutely no emotions/labels attached. We have all experienced this at some time or the other, however they may have been very fleeting feelings that we have not realized existed, and that we may not have recognized as Love.
Yesterday I was reading the Alchemist by Paul Coehlo.. and there was a part where he says "He tried to deal with the concept of love as distinct from possession, and couldn't separate them". Later during meditation a though arose "you can love without possession". This thought started expanding.. it was spreading and automatically being applied to people in my life.. a feeling of just pure love with no stories attached. I stayed with it for a bit.. then finished my meditation.
Later I was driving alone when the thought of someone who has been a very negative influence on my life came to me. I saw her in my mind.. and before last night , any time I thought of her, my emotions took over and I would get sad and depressed and drown in self pity. But this time was different. I could see very clearly.. I realized that she really did love me and all her possessive, controlling, trying to change me, was her own distorted way of showing me her love. That is the only way she knew how to show love. When that filter of all the mental and emotional abuse she put me through dropped, all I saw was the love behind it. I am not saying what she did was right or it was OK for her to treat another human the way she did. All I am saying is when I saw the story, I could drop it and become free from it. I realized that it was not how she treated me that kept me imprisoned, it was the story my mind made around the situation that kept me imprisoned.. and when I drop the story, all that is left is love.
I realized what the statement, "you can love without possession" meant. Possession does not have to mean physical possession.. just holding on to a mental story is also a kind of possession.. and dropping this mental story is really loving someone without possessing.
As I sat with this all evening, I felt love emanating from my heart. Such pure emotionless, sentiment-less, story-less love. It expanded and took over me.. and then around everyone I knew.. I had no identity.. I was not Shanti, I was not a woman, nor was I a mother or wife or daughter or friend.. I was just love with no boundaries. I looked up to thank Ma, and my awareness was drawn within.. I realized, Ma was in me, Ma was me, I was Ma. I had tears of love and gratitude rolling down my cheeks.
Have you read Real Love by Greg Baer?
You may enjoy reading it.
Here is something Carson wrote, that I think summed up the book real well:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=4197#42890
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Love has been changing my life slowly over the past 6 months or so, (strongly over the last 2 months I'd say) and this book kinda is the climax of it all for me. It shows how we as humans use "Getting and Protecting Behaviors" (running, attacking, lying and acting like a victim) to get "Imitation Love" (praise, power, pleasure and safety) in replacement for what Greg Baer calls "Real Love". (Unconditional Love) And how when we use these "Behaviors" we not only cannot GIVE real love, but we can't recieve it either because we have been soliciting for it and this makes it tainted when recieved for real. So only by giving up our "Getting and Protecting Behaviors" and basically telling the truth about ourselves, our true motivations and our faults can we truly feel unconditionally loved and therfore start unconditionally loving others. The book is truly filled with wonderful revelations and Truth for me. I hope you find it as useful as I have.
Here is a piece from Greg's website:
http://www.reallove.com/about.asp
Real Love is caring about the happiness of another person without any thought for what we might get for ourselves. It’s also Real Love when other people care about our happiness unconditionally. It is not Real Love when other people like us for doing what they want. Under those conditions we’re just paying for love again. We can be certain that we’re receiving Real Love only when we make foolish mistakes, when we fail to do what other people want, and even when we get in their way, but they don’t feel disappointed or irritated at us. That is Real Love (true unconditional love), and that love alone has the power to heal all wounds, bind people together, and create relationships quite beyond our present capacity to imagine.
If we don’t have enough Real Love in our lives, the resulting emptiness is unbearable. We then compulsively try to fill our emptiness with whatever feels good in the moment—money, anger, sex, alcohol, drugs, violence, power, and the conditional approval of others. Anything we use as a substitute for Real Love becomes a form of Imitation Love, and although Imitation Love feels good for a moment, it never lasts and never gives us the feeling of genuine happiness that Real Love provides.
http://www.reallove.com/protect_behaviors.asp
Getting and Protecting Behaviors:
When we lack sufficient Real Love, we feel empty and afraid, conditions that are unbearably painful. In order to eliminate our emptiness, we use Getting Behaviors to fill ourselves with Imitation Love. The Getting Behaviors include:
* Lying. Although it's usually unconscious on our part, any time we do anything to get other people to like us—by accentuating our positive physical, mental, social, or occupational qualities—we are lying. With our lies, we earn the conditional approval of others (praise) and often the other forms of Imitation Love as well.
* Attacking. We're attacking people when we use any behavior designed to modify their behavior with fear. We frighten or intimidate people with anger, authority, physical intimidation, guilt, and so on. When we attack people, we feel stronger. We feel a sense of power, which temporarily can be quite satisfying in the absence of Real Love.
* We're Acting like victims when we point out what other people should have done for us. When we act hurt and maintain that we have been treated unfairly, we're using guilt and obligation to persuade people that we are victims and that we deserve more than we are presently getting.
* Clinging. When we find people who give us some of the Imitation Love we crave, we often cling to them for more. To illustrate just one of many ways we can cling, imagine that a spouse or friend has decided to part company with you earlier than you had anticipated during an evening or weekend. If you say, "Do you really have to go now?" you're clinging to him or her for more attention.
In order to diminish our fears, we use Protecting Behaviors, which include:
* Lying. From the time we were small children, we learned to hide or diminish our mistakes, flaws, and fears, because then people tended to withdraw their approval less.
* Attacking. Anger gives us a rush of power, and then we feel less helpless and afraid. In addition, when other people are attacking us, we can often get them to stop attacking us if we attack them in return.
* Acting like victims. When people are attacking us, they will often stop if we can act sufficiently wounded and accuse them of hurting us. Victims also frequently use variations on the expression, "It's not my fault."
* Running. One effective way to diminish our pain is simply to withdraw from it. We can run by physically leaving difficult situations or relationships, emotionally withdrawing from interactions or relationships, burying ourselves in our careers, and by using alcohol or drugs.
Not sure if this answers your question Christiane. There is no "yourself" to know, there is only the silence/love to experience.. heal yourself.. let the silence/love permeate your life and the let that love flow out into the world. When people say you have to first know yourself, they are not talking about knowing yourself as a person, they are talking about knowing your true self, the silence, which is love. You have been experiencing this (the silence) more and more right? This will fill your life, your world, this will show you who you are and what loving is. And, since you are so close to yourself you maybe don't see this, but you are love already.  |
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 09:54:34 AM
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Hi Sparkle,
Well, generally speaking, I can say I'm a "kind" person.
At least, that is what people around always said of me :>
But what I'm really concerned about is Love.
Kindness is a quality that comes naturally (or not!) with or without Love.
To be "kind" to myself or others is similar (to me) to be "gentle" and "respective". There are so many "kind" people around, that doesn't necessarily mean they are truly "Loving".
And to be honest, since I'm digging and digging in my darkness, I cannot pretend to always be "kind" to myself.
The more it goes, the more I put myself in uncomfortable situations to see what's going on inside. And it could be situations that come over and over again, unsolved (or partially solved) inside.
If I wanted to be "kind" to my self, I would avoid digging in those uncomfortable situations, cause usually it's not a piece of chocolate cake! It's rather a tough "peeling" that costs me a lot of energy each time.
I'm not saying that I have to suffer to grow, but until now, pain has always been a necessary part for growth. The thing is I'm not a perfect master of the "suffering" part associated with the whole process.. but I'm improving little by little
Thank you Sparkle for your vision.
_/\_ |
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 10:04:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by christiane
Hi everybody..
Since yesterday, I have this running thought on my mind:
Did I ever know what Love is? Did I ever loved? Did I ever been loved?
I have been taken care of, I have shared emotions, deep emotions with others, BUT what about LOVE?
I truly don't have any clear answer about that.
And when I really go in and ask my self: "Did you ever really love?"
I can't say "yes, definitely". I can say "I had deep blissful moments of ecstasy", but to say I "Loved", I don't know.
How can I Love if I'm not even sure that I'm loving my self?
When we hate, we hate! it's a clear feeling! it has authenticity in it.
But what about Love? So many things we can hide behind this word.
Need, joy, excitement, pleasure, comfort, flowing energy, any emotion we can easily label as "Love"...
When someone says to me "Love yourself. Be yourself. Nobody loves you but yourself.", I say yes, true, this is the starting point.
To love the other, you must BE love first, you must have It yourself, for yourself first! Otherwise, there's no such thing as "Love" to share..
So I really wonder "What does "Love Yourself" really mean"???
How can I Love My Self if I don't even KNOW My Self?
And to know my self, there's no magic formula: there is meditation.
But does it mean that, unless I come to know my self, I'm unable to LOVE? This is scaring.
Please feel free to wake me up!
Thank you.
Loving yourself means being honest with yourself and admitting to yourself that you do nothing - God does everything - and then forgetting yourself in compassionate selfless service to all, including yourself. |
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 10:31:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Not sure if this answers your question Christiane. There is no "yourself" to know, there is only the silence/love to experience.. heal yourself.. let the silence/love permeate your life and the let that love flow out into the world. When people say you have to first know yourself, they are not talking about knowing yourself as a person, they are talking about knowing your true self, the silence, which is love. You have been experiencing this (the silence) more and more right? This will fill your life, your world, this will show you who you are and what loving is. And, since you are so close to yourself you maybe don't see this, but you are love already.
Yes.. First, thank you for the interesting excerpts (your 'old' post and Baer's book).
I think I went through all the getting and protecting behaviors he talks about! Quite recently I was able to (finally!) watch from a certain distance the whole acting (mine and eventually the other's one). And once this gap has been realized, you fairly know that believing the whole play again would be really fooling yourself again.
That's clear to me now.
Maybe I should give more details about what triggered my uncomfortable feeling towards this issue of Love:
In brief words, I experienced a heart opening 2 days ago, just before leaving my friend. There was peace, openeness, without any story attached.. simply energy flowing from the heart. It was too intense and I had to leave him alone.
I found myself with all this energy running through the spine, in the heart and so much in the hands.. I felt an urge to give..
couldn't find any available friend! So I went to the supermarket and just gave (through my presence, not by "doing") to strangers, even to the oysters I bought!! (I had a craving for oysters that evening!).
I felt I was walking on a cloud, at the same time there was balance and confidence. I was centered and the mind was silent.
I came back home and felt like sharing this with my "spiritual mentor" out of joy, without excpecting any answer in return.
She replied to me saying "Let this energy goooo.just be a witness
it is emotions not love not feelings, just be urself, love urself
your friend is a shadow, not real
we r a shadow..noone loves you, only you. wake up!"
It goes without saying that it didn't feel comfortable to get such a slap in the face! My feelings, the energy, was real. And there was no attachment to anything.. rather a peaceful feeling of brightness flowing from the heart..
So I really got confused..I thought I was able now to "see" the difference between "emotions" and "Love", but this reply was disturbing. That what lead me to inquire about Love and my delusions..
And I needed to share this on the forum, maybe it's the first time I feel that lost!
And this feeling of being lost and confused is maybe the sign that what I experienced 2 days ago wasn't Love but emotions/feelings..
Yet it felt so real and detached..
That's why I feel confused right now..
I guess it would be wise to let go of the uncomfortable feelings attached to what happened, to let go of my fear of being deluded again and again, and go in, through meditation, and find some silence inside.. maybe I'll come out with a clearer vision.
Thank you Shanti for your light.. It is deeply appreciated.
_/\_
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Edited by - christiane on Jul 04 2009 10:36:13 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 11:06:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by christiane
[quote]Originally posted by Shanti
It goes without saying that it didn't feel comfortable to get such a slap in the face! My feelings, the energy, was real. And there was no attachment to anything.. rather a peaceful feeling of brightness flowing from the heart..
So I really got confused..I thought I was able now to "see" the difference between "emotions" and "Love", but this reply was disturbing. That what lead me to inquire about Love and my delusions..
And I needed to share this on the forum, maybe it's the first time I feel that lost!
And this feeling of being lost and confused is maybe the sign that what I experienced 2 days ago wasn't Love but emotions/feelings..
Yet it felt so real and detached..
That's why I feel confused right now..
I guess it would be wise to let go of the uncomfortable feelings attached to what happened, to let go of my fear of being deluded again and again, and go in, through meditation, and find some silence inside.. maybe I'll come out with a clearer vision.
What you were experiencing was a heart opening, and what your mentor asked you to do was not attach to it. You see, this high you felt will finally go away, and you will swing to the other end of the pendulum. Hence your mentor is asking you not to attach to (what we call in AYP) the scenery. When you don't attach to the highs, then you don't wish it back when you are in the low. You give away the high, like you were doing (to me that was awesome), but don't attach to it, this way the longing to experience the high will not cause you suffering. Then slowly the pendulum will swing slower and your highs and lows wont be too severe and you can live from a place of equanimity.
That opening was real. That love you felt was real. While you were in it, there was little thought about "this is it".. only after you are out of this does the mind try to evaluate it and judge it and apply labels to it. All your mentor is saying is let it go, don't give it a name, just let it all go..
"Let this energy goooo.
just be a witness (don't attach a name to it..)
it is emotions not love not feelings, (the high due to a heart opening is a "high" not the gap.. the gap is just outpouring of love without realizing there is outpouring)
just be urself, love urself (be the silence that is your real self)
your friend is a shadow, not real
we r a shadow (this is a slightly higher level of seeing, but everything arises and falls back into you, there is no separation, no others and you.. you will experience this as you keep going, don't try to get this with your mind).
..noone loves you, only you. wake up!" (you don't need another form to love you, when you realize you are the silence (wake up) that permeates it all, everything else is you.)
Was she right in telling you all of this, I don't know, she is your guide and she knows what is best for you. Some guides like to shake up your world so you can never settle into a pattern, don't want you to get comfortable in a scenery, don't want you to feel ahhh this is it.. because once you do, you may take a long time to get out of it.. some guides may do it gently.. it does not really matter.. a true guide is finally trying to show you your true self.. whatever technique they may use.
Your experience was real.. you had a beautiful heart opening.. if I were your guide, I would have let you enjoy it for a bit before I told you what she told you.. but that's just me.
It's OK Christiane, the mind can never figure this out.. you can let it go.. and know there is nothing to know.. only experience.. does not really matter if the mind understand "And this feeling of being lost and confused is maybe the sign that what I experienced 2 days ago wasn't Love but emotions/feelings..
Yet it felt so real and detached..
That's why I feel confused right now.."
Your inner self knows what it needed to know with that experience.. and that is all that counts.
Yes..
"I guess it would be wise to let go of the uncomfortable feelings attached to what happened, to let go of my fear of being deluded again and again, and go in, through meditation, and find some silence inside.. maybe I'll come out with a clearer vision."
... let it go.... |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 2:21:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by christiane
Hi Sparkle,
Well, generally speaking, I can say I'm a "kind" person.
At least, that is what people around always said of me :>
But what I'm really concerned about is Love.
Kindness is a quality that comes naturally (or not!) with or without Love.
To be "kind" to myself or others is similar (to me) to be "gentle" and "respective". There are so many "kind" people around, that doesn't necessarily mean they are truly "Loving".
And to be honest, since I'm digging and digging in my darkness, I cannot pretend to always be "kind" to myself.
The more it goes, the more I put myself in uncomfortable situations to see what's going on inside. And it could be situations that come over and over again, unsolved (or partially solved) inside.
If I wanted to be "kind" to my self, I would avoid digging in those uncomfortable situations, cause usually it's not a piece of chocolate cake! It's rather a tough "peeling" that costs me a lot of energy each time.
I'm not saying that I have to suffer to grow, but until now, pain has always been a necessary part for growth. The thing is I'm not a perfect master of the "suffering" part associated with the whole process.. but I'm improving little by little
Thank you Sparkle for your vision.
_/\_
Hi Christine
The way I see it, kindness is the manifestation of love as we interact with life, both with ourselves and with others. It may sound quite ordinary and not like the "bliss" that people in spiritual practices often talk about. But kindness is where the rubber hits the road in terms of the manifestation of love in our environment.
I am thinking of a person now who is extremely kind and open hearted in many ways - not a "perfect enlightened being" by any means and does not have any formal spiritual practice. This person, however, is often a benchmark for me when I look at the many people I know who have been involved in spiritual practices for a very long time and don't appear to have anywhere near the same quality of natural kindness coming from heart that this person does.
Kindness is not to be underestimated and luckely it is in abundance in the world, outside of formal spiritual practice.
In the words of the Dali Lama
My religion is very simple
My religion is "kindness"
Pain is inevitable in life and it has been very helpful to me to be gentle and kind to myself in that pain. Digging for pain is not being kind, it's going to come anyway, so take it easy
When we are driven by bhakti into the deeper and deeper layers of who we are - taking it easy and being kind to ourselves is often a good thing to remember. We don't have to beat ourselves up in the name of love
But you've gotten great advice, that's just a different perspective.
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 3:16:32 PM
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I don't think Love is scenery. When all scenery fades, there is Love flowing outward, the essence of the Universe. When self centerdness fades Love is there expanding and it feels blissful like nothing else. It is only grasping, clinging and tightening that stops the flow, no?
Love to all,
Jill |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 3:24:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jillatay
I don't think Love is scenery. When all scenery fades, there is Love flowing outward, the essence of the Universe. When self centerdness fades Love is there expanding and it feels blissful like nothing else. It is only grasping, clinging and tightening that stops the flow, no?
Love to all,
Jill
Hi Jill,
No, love is not scenery, love is our true nature, the high during and following a heart opening is. Sorry if I was not clear. |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2009 : 04:25:00 AM
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Hi christiane,
what a lovely topic...
Thank you all for what I could read about love here. It's so important to search for love, live it, share our experiences...
In this time, I have a rather new feel for love, thanks to Buddhist meditation practice. Some two or three years ago I learned about Metta Bhavana, which is a Buddhist practice, and means something like cultivation of unconditional love, or loving kindness. Although there are also other qualities that I would perhaps spontaneously describe with the word love, what Metta Bhavana revealed to me is really the number one association.
It's a special kind of concentration practice (in Buddhist terms) or we here would say that it fosters inner silence. But the primary goal of this technique is to induce Love in ones hearth. It traditionally starts with repeating of three simple wishes: May I be Happy, May I be peaceful, May I be free of suffering. And we continue repeating that, for minutes, hours, days.... We wish ourselves well... After a while we can get creative if we wish so, and wish ourselves well in different, most beautiful, tender, kind and loving ways. After a while the depth of beauty of our wishes begins to surprise us, as inner silence grows and inspires... And a very beautiful, deeply satisfying and nurturing warmth and light begins to grow in the middle of our chest. It makes us smile and shine and overflow with joy. Then we expand our tender wishes to other beings. First to our dear ones, then slowly we add neutral people or animals, or whatever beings we wish, and finally our outflow of loving kindness or unconditional love is strong enough to encompass also our enemies and beings that are hurting us or our beloved, or that may have done great damage to many. In the end, we actually find understanding and compassion even for the most evil and repulsive being. This is extraordinary, and certainly not easy to do.
However, after some two weeks of systematic practice of Metta Bhavana, it was very easy and natural for me to answer your question, christiane. Love is that deep warm light glowing in my heart, that takes me on journeys through inner space when I pay attention to it, that energy which fills my body and mind with joy, kindness and tenderness of such a profound kind that it constantly puts tears into my eyes. That energy which spontaneously flows out to every being I encounter in the world, or in the mind. People and animals feel it immediately. They immediately smile and come closer to you, stay with you and appreciate you, telling you how beautiful and genuine your smile is. (Well the monk told us it would work this way...) It is service. It is totally enjoyable service - the trick is that it works automatically, once you've developed the energy. And that's why it's selfless - you do the most precious service to others, but you enjoy as much as others - you just bath in the outpouring of that love together with everyone around you.
So that's one way of experiencing Love - a very clear energetic phenomenon.
There are aeons of other ways, I guess... For the miracle of miracles, when a man and a woman glimpse each other, and realize immediately that the foundation of their world has been rocked, I don't dare to search words.
R |
Edited by - mimirom on Jul 05 2009 08:25:04 AM |
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2009 : 05:03:09 AM
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Hi Shanti..
I took a break before replying..(needed it).
Now I can look at what happened with a better vision.
There's one part I'm not sure I got, Shanti.. when you say:
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
it is emotions not love not feelings, (the high due to a heart opening is a "high" not the gap.. the gap is just outpouring of love without realizing there is outpouring)
Could you elaborate a little bit, please?
It's been a while I don't put any conclusion on whatever I go through, no matter the intensity of what is encountered.
The "good" and the "bad", I just try to stay open and see how it feels and how it affects my energies..
So, basically, when I had this heart opening and overflowing energy, I didn't think "yes! this is it!".. I just felt much energy flowing and couldn't resist the urge to give..Had I been in a desert, I'd have searched for the tinest plant or cactus or scorpion just to give! This is how it felt like!
And if there was attachment, to my friend or to the situation, to whatever thought, I'd have noticed it.. I watched carefully and all there was was a feeling of unaddressed flowing energy from the heart.
There was a feeling of freedom, lightness, peace and no mind. Just the need to touch and let the energy flow.. Even the oysters I was about to eat (alive! ) were part of the giving (and forgiving!)
So, that's why I really felt upset when I was told it was emotion.
But now, I have the subtle intuition that, by writing to this woman, maybe something inside needed to be shaken in order not to float away with the comfortable, pleasurable feeling.. it was like "please, somebody brings me down to reality..I'm afraid of getting caught in a fantasy..". I knew what I felt was real, but I was afraid that the mind starts using the feelings to create its own scenery..
So, yes, I felt upset, but somewhere, I said thank you.. like a deep subtle voice inside..(the inner guru?)
Anyway, the whole process forced me to go in and stop running away from my aloneness. This silence, emptiness is always associated to death and the fear of it.
Death is becoming a constant preoccupation. When I feel relaxed before sleeping, it happens that I feel comfortable about leaving my body here and now..Once, I even intended to leave it, mentally, and the more I was willing, the more let go and relaxation was being felt..
The fear doesn't come from death itself. It's rather a fear of not being ready when it comes. Not being aware enough..
So, a lot of inner "tribulations"..and the unknowing of what's going on..but what can I do except trusting Life will take care of it all..!?
Gona draw something funny, maybe it will help reconnect a little bit..
_/\_
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2009 : 05:08:19 AM
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Hi Louis,
"Live simply so that everybody can simply live."
Thank you for the reminder! Simplicity... maybe I should engrave this word on a piece of wood and hang it above my PC! 
Also, I promise you I'll be more kind to myself from now on 
Thanks for the precious advice.
_/\_ |
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2009 : 05:16:54 AM
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Thank you Mimirom..
Beautiful post.. this is exactly how it felt!
Even inert objects were a potential receiver!
And yes, I can confirm the fact that people feel your energy/light all around..you even don't need to smile, there's a 'bubble' of light around you that carries your body effortlessly..
Thank you for sharing your experience.
_/\_ |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2009 : 10:00:28 AM
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Hi there
have you heart about this one?
I personally get inspired by this writing. Here an excerpt...:
You can surrender open and allow the full love-energy of your hearth to flow through your body all day. You can learn to open so your heart's love can flow fully through your entire body. Then, your true heart's love can shine through your eyes and smile. Love's energy can flow through the way you move. Love's openness can breathe you. Others can see who you truly are. They can feel your deepest gifts. You are love, flowing with love, bright as love. |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2009 : 11:22:14 AM
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Hi Mimirom
thank you for your post on Metta Bhavana.
I have been repeating to myself 'May I be Happy, May I be peaceful, May I be free of suffering' for the past 24 hours and wishing myself well, and it carried me through a very painful moment of my life.
Love
Josh |
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2009 : 11:27:59 AM
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Thank you.. interesting book.
Once we catch the secret of surrendering in a love embrace with another being, it's a matter of surrendering in daily life to Love.
The lover is a natural possibility of unfolding, opening totally to receive Bliss..
The same is available all around..it just demands a little more "practice" to get the same degree of relaxation and openeness to give and receive Love energy
And to me, surrendering totally to a lover is a necessary journey before being able to totally surrender to Life and Love.
The deepest the embrace, the widest the unfolding and the biggest the absorption and release of the divine fragrance of Love.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2009 : 3:38:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by christiane
I took a break before replying..(needed it).
Now I can look at what happened with a better vision.
I get it, I would do the same my dear.
quote:
Originally posted by christiane
There's one part I'm not sure I got, Shanti.. when you say:
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
it is emotions not love not feelings, (the high due to a heart opening is a "high" not the gap.. the gap is just outpouring of love without realizing there is outpouring)
Could you elaborate a little bit, please?
Let me see...
[high]<------------------->[gap]<------------------->[low]
[overflowing love]<------>[love]<----->[closed up in your shell]
When there is realizing of overflowing love, you are at a high.
Your mentor is asking you to see this.
If your mind attaches to this high as an end all state, you will be doing yourself a dis-service (not saying you did or are doing this, but I think your mentor does not know this ).
When you are "love" from the gap, you are not sending love to others with intention, you are just flowing with love without even knowing it. Everyone around you and you are blessed by this, but we don't know it, we are not consciously aware of it.
What you did, giving it away was the perfect thing to do when you are in a high. Your mentor was not criticizing this, your mentor was only trying to warn you on getting attached to the high.
You already get this though:
quote:
Originally posted by christiane
But now, I have the subtle intuition that, by writing to this woman, maybe something inside needed to be shaken in order not to float away with the comfortable, pleasurable feeling.. it was like "please, somebody brings me down to reality..I'm afraid of getting caught in a fantasy..". I knew what I felt was real, but I was afraid that the mind starts using the feelings to create its own scenery..
So, yes, I felt upset, but somewhere, I said thank you.. like a deep subtle voice inside..(the inner guru?)
Sorry if I have confused you more Christiane, but I have no better way of explaining this.
_/\_
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2009 : 3:54:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_anderson
Hi Mimirom
thank you for your post on Metta Bhavana.
I have been repeating to myself 'May I be Happy, May I be peaceful, May I be free of suffering' for the past 24 hours and wishing myself well, and it carried me through a very painful moment of my life.
Love
Josh
Hi Josh,
you are very welcome. At times it is a hard job to keep up our "Metta Bhavana." Sometimes the hearth simply refuses to open, or difficult thoughts get in the way. But we carry on the work, and then, later, the heart opens and the mind becomes peaceful again. This is truth.
Love & Light from a Buddhist meditation center in the mountains,
Roman |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2009 : 5:22:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by christiane
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
it is emotions not love not feelings, (the high due to a heart opening is a "high" not the gap.. the gap is just outpouring of love without realizing there is outpouring)
Could you elaborate a little bit, please?
Hi Christiane,
I know Shanti already answered your question directly, but I felt moved to offer some comments, too; I hope they're helpful.
It sounds like you already understand the dynamics of love emanating from inner silence, per the way you outlined your own understanding -- and per your descriptions of both your experiences and your outlook.
We've all been conditioned that "love" means attachment -- but that's simply untrue; per Greg Baer's book (Real Love), real love is unconditionally caring for the well being of others - any others (yes, even oysters).
Highs and Lows are due to the mind's attachment to movements of energy ... real love, is ultimately the silent awareness we are, in motion (not *emotion* - which is a combination of physical and mental reactions, to other reactions, in the body-mind).
How to tell the difference between emotions, ego-attachment masquerading as love and energy openings?
Real love feels, as you wrote, like: "freedom, lightness, peace and no mind."
The sense you've had of "need to give" is the mind's evaluation of how to flow with the energy you were feeling .... which is neither good nor bad ... just the body-mind's natural response to the "sense" arising from the energy ... in the same way that hunger causes a sense of needing to take in food, or tiredness causes a sense of needing to sleep.
This is a common, but not universal, response to heart openings and heart energy; as/if it happens ... just see if you can notice the distinctions between that energy, and the loving itself ... which just feels like "freedom, lightness, peace and no mind" -- along with unconditional intention for the well-being of all ... with no sense of needing to do any particular thing ... because the giving is already happening ... exactly as the Sun is already giving its unconditional offering to all, simply by being itself; the heat and light the Sun radiates doesn't require any separate, specific "doing" ... all needed doing arises naturally, as the radiance of its *being*.
The same is true of who and what we all actually are --- pure awareness, radiating as loving .... Shiva & Shakti -- as the Union - as ShivaShakti .... the essence and the shine, the being and its glory - as One, in Reality.
Intending The Loving of Light and the Light of Loving For All,
Kirtanman
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2009 : 12:33:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Sorry if I have confused you more Christiane, but I have no better way of explaining this.
_/\_
Sorry for MY blurred vision..(due to the mind).
On the contrary, your words are (and were) cristal clear now.
Today is a bright new day. There is more understanding and a little new door has opened inside.
Deep gratitude to your Love and Light..
You are my teacher, my friend and inspiration on this journey.
_/\_ |
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2009 : 12:45:39 AM
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hi Kirtanman,
your comments are very welcome. THank you.
yes, now there is a clearer perception of how "it" works.
Now I can see - not only mentally - how the minds attaches
to the energy, to stay "in control"..
At that moment, I felt like "giving" but it's more a desire "to share the flowing light by being present".
And there was no attachment of "me" to this flow..
it was more like "there's something flowing through me.. please feel free to enjow it with me..it's too much to keep it for myself".
Thank you K.
P.S: I'm becoming a fan of your long posts! usually I avoid reading long posts, but when I sense that it's coming from the heart, not the mind, I read them "fluently" and effortlessly.
_/\_ |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2009 : 1:40:20 PM
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Chritiane,
Do you have kids? |
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2009 : 4:37:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
Chritiane,
Do you have kids?
Hi Gumpi,
Thanks God no! Not that I don't feel like having a child,
but I really have enough work to do on myself..
It's a huge responsibility and I think that the motherly feelings
are here anyway. No need to be a biological mother.
There are too many orphans on this planet and I personally feel, as a meditator, that I can be a better mother by working on my limitations and unleashing the light within.
However, I really love the contact with kids
and it's a unique opportunity to learn about oneself..
And kids are a great lesson of Love and simplicity..
I really loose my "adult skin" when I meet them.. it's a meeting
of souls playing together simply, joyfully.
They are a great mirror and an opportunity to get in contact with the
inner child.
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Edited by - christiane on Jul 07 2009 4:44:49 PM |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2009 : 06:03:04 AM
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Thanks be to the gods i don't have kids either. hehehe
I know what you mean about enjoying their company. I am not a "kid" person myself as i find it hard to relate to children, although when you do get on with them it makes you feel good.
I asked about kids because it only seemed logical to me that if you had them you would understand in a different kind of way what it meant to feel love. It is just an extension of the relationship you have with your parents.
However, i can fully identify with what you say about love. I too question what it means to me to feel true love. It seems to involve a selfish/unselfish kind of paradox. And it is easier to recognise negative feelings for what they are. Strangely enough, if we lose a loved one and we cry, the expression of crying is in a sense "negative" but it is also a positive expression of the loss we feel for someone so close.
The closest to love i can feel is compassion. |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2009 : 07:44:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
The closest to love i can feel is compassion.
That brought a few tears to my eyes, gumpi. |
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