|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 29 2009 : 6:59:58 PM
|
It's difficult to stop anything because the words that say stop it contain it. For instance, stop thinking of the color green. Pretty hard to do.
The best way to stop seeking is to find something better to do.
Seeking is looking for something you don't have yet.
So if you learn to enjoy something you already have, then you are no longer seeking.
That's what "living in the moment" is about, and meditation helps greatly.
Being thankful every day helps with this because you are recognizing what you already have.
Also there are also many other activities you can enjoy right now. Those are different for each person, but probably you are already doing some of that already. So you can find what those things are for you and work on being "in the moment" while enjoying them. |
 |
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2009 : 11:08:52 PM
|
There is no reason to be worried.
The best thing to do is continue twice daily practices, and do anything else that helps keep the stress out of your life.
There is more than one reason for this.
One is that when you find inner silence, your inner guru will guide you through any kind of trouble.
The other reason is that most of the anxiety is artificially created.
Public officials have found they can control people by getting them agitated. They can make huge changes in the world much more easily if people are scared. There is a book called "The Shock Doctrine" that talks about this.
If you don't believe me, try not looking at the news at all for a couple weeks. You will find life is quite peaceful, and nothing wrong!! My philosophy is don't worry about trouble until you can see it in real life, not in the news. And that kind of trouble is very rare, and also temporary.
Miguel wrote:
quote:
Did anybody hear about Mayan calendar?An ancient civilitation.
They made their calendar a long time ago,including future dates of the world,they covered from their time to year 2012.
Mayan calendar ends in 2012.I ask my self about the meaning,why they fixed the end of their calendar in this next 2012...there are books about this...
Another thing not to be worried about. Is there reason to believe the end of that calendar means something? Absolutely not!
That's what none of the books will tell you. All calendars have an end date, and how many of them mean something? The only difference is this one is circular.
Having said that, it is quite possible there will be a planetary alignment on that date. Maybe that is what they based their calendar on. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Apr 29 2009 11:17:20 PM |
|
|
|
skorpion63
India
17 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2009 : 05:25:51 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by miguel
Did anybody hear about Mayan calendar?An ancient civilitation.
They made their calendar a long time ago,including future dates of the world,they covered from their time to year 2012.
Mayan calendar ends in 2012.I ask my self about the meaning,why they fixed the end of their calendar in this next 2012...there are books about this...
I think its intriguing...I dont want to be an apocaliptic person,but i feel something is changing...
Hey miguel,maybe this documentary on 2012 will interest you a little. http://www.blinkx.com/video/2012-sc...W8U96ARssYk8 |
Edited by - skorpion63 on Apr 30 2009 05:41:10 AM |
|
|
|
miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2009 : 06:57:36 AM
|
quote:
"The best way to stop seeking is to find something better to do.Seeking is looking for something you don't have yet. "
Difficult to achieve this, ether.
quote:
So if you learn to enjoy something you already have, then you are no longer seeking.
Yes,it sounds great to achieve this...but it takes time,and work.
quote:
So you can find what those things are for you and work on being "in the moment" while enjoying them.
Thanks for this advice,it is a very important reaching this objetive for me.Im working...
quote:
There is no reason to be worried.
The best thing to do is continue twice daily practices, and do anything else that helps keep the stress out of your life.
There is more than one reason for this.
One is that when you find inner silence, your inner guru will guide you through any kind of trouble.
The other reason is that most of the anxiety is artificially created.
Public officials have found they can control people by getting them agitated. They can make huge changes in the world much more easily if people are scared. There is a book called "The Shock Doctrine" that talks about this.
If you don't believe me, try not looking at the news at all for a couple weeks. You will find life is quite peaceful, and nothing wrong!! My philosophy is don't worry about trouble until you can see it in real life, not in the news. And that kind of trouble is very rare, and also temporary.
Thanks for your wisdom Ether.I spent two months two years ago working in an important TV Channel in my country,in the news realitation section.I know very well what are you talking about.
I hate the actual use of mass media...
Ether,thank you very much for your experience and dedication.
Thanks.
|
Edited by - miguel on Apr 30 2009 07:18:00 AM |
|
|
|
miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2009 : 07:00:40 AM
|
| Skorpion,ill take a look to that video.Thanks! |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2009 : 08:43:04 AM
|
Yes, I didn't mean to stop watching the news forever. I just meant to stop for a while so you can learn that they are the SOURCE of the agitation, not just reporting of it.
Once you know that, you can sort out what is good and throw away the rest. The more local the news is; the less problem with the content.
Miguel wrote:
quote:
"The best way to stop seeking is to find something better to do.Seeking is looking for something you don't have yet. "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Difficult to achieve this, ether.
Maybe at first, but it's quite easy later. Just go on living life the same way you are now, but relax and pay attention to your senses instead of thinking all the time. When you get thoughts that tell you something is not right yet, just gently push them out of your mind, and pay attention to what you see, hear, feel.
Those are habitual thoughts, and maybe say something like "When I become enlightened i will be happy" or "I can't wait until _______happens" (fill in the blank with a desire).
But, just as the news is the SOURCE of the agitation, so are your thoughts the SOURCE of discomfort.
Don't think that it takes time and effort, because those are the very thoughts that are delaying it!
You still need to make the effort of twice daily practices, and purification takes time.
But if you make a little effort during the day also, by occasionally pushing poisonous thoughts out of your mind, you can easily make your life better.
Try to think thoughts like: What color is that?; what does this feel like? Look at the pattern of sunlight; think of what you are doing right now.
These are thoughts in the present. Thoughts of what will happen in the future and what will supposedly make you happy in the future cause you to not be happy now. |
|
|
|
miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2009 : 1:16:09 PM
|
| Thanks ether.. |
|
|
|
miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 10:59:46 AM
|
Hi all.
Ether,you said that the objetive is stop seeking. Seeking is normal in young people,and when youth ends,the seeking is less and less,and people stop seeking.
I see a problem here.The reason why im in spiritual path is my seeking desire...you say stop seeking...but i think the day i will stop seeking,ill stop doing spiritual practices....
My question is...when we stop seeking,who can we keep the aspiration for spiritual development trought practices alive?
Which will be the inner fire that led me to continue doing meditation and other practices?
For young people i think spiritual practice is more easy to do,because we are full of optimism and ilusion...but its a phase in life.Some day it will pass and ill be in other phase...and is a common thing in older people the desilusion and escepticism...what to do then for keeping the motivation in spiritual path??? |
Edited by - miguel on May 01 2009 11:03:51 AM |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 11:03:25 AM
|
Hi miguel....
A phrase that came to mind in meditation several months ago was this: "Seek nothing but to cease seeking". Don't know if you have seen me post this before but I figured I would post it one more time in case you hadn't seen it before. I think it is relevant.
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 11:08:42 AM
|
"Seek nothing but to cease seeking".
Great and beautiful sentence Carson,i feel it
But...who can i seek something i cannot...its...i dont know...im confused...what to do then???when the seeking is over...then i seek no more...but...who can i continue doing sadhanna? where ca i find the aspiration then?there is no aspiration then...and i will stop doing sadhanna...
I began spiritual path with my mind active,but without the mind...who can i manage it like before? |
Edited by - miguel on May 01 2009 11:13:58 AM |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 11:13:45 AM
|
Hi miguel...
The answer to your questions is "active surrender". Actively surrender to God's Will and everything else will fall perfectly into place.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on May 01 2009 11:14:47 AM |
|
|
|
miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 11:20:25 AM
|
Where can i learn more about active surrender Carson?Its related to bhakti?some yoganis lesson?im interested!
I need Gods hand now! |
Edited by - miguel on May 01 2009 11:22:35 AM |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 11:26:13 AM
|
I don't know actually Miguel, sorry. I don't even know if the term "Active Surrender" is used by anyone other than me. To me Active Surrender is a concious process of surrendering to what Is. I think there are different types of surrender which could basically be put into two main catagories; Active and Passive.... Passive Surrender would be more like giving up. Active Surrender is CONCIOUSLY surrendering to what Is. Choosing not to fight with reality. Have you read "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie yet? If not you should pick it up! If you can't find it in Spain I can send you a copy or you can go to http://www.thework.com/thework.asp to do The Work online. You don't need God's hands now, you are already in God's hands. You just need to realize it!
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on May 01 2009 11:26:57 AM |
|
|
|
miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 11:36:56 AM
|
Thank you very much Carson.
I know the work,and i am doing sometimes (few times) some work with the instructions at katies web page.Its amazing working with my stupid mind patterns,and watching them so clearly!The work brings me peace after doing it...
I havent buoght it yet because im tired of all those helping books.
I read lot of them in the past...but it seems this is different,and yoganis writes very very well about it.
Thank you very much for your offer sending me the book,but i think i can get it in internet,via amazon or something like that...dont worry,but thanks...
It has been translated in spanish language ("amar lo que es"  ),english language is more uncomfortable for me...i read slowly 
But maybe with all the info in katies web is enough? |
Edited by - miguel on May 01 2009 11:45:12 AM |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 11:46:44 AM
|
Yeah the info on the website is enough to do The Work... Good luck Miguel, you will be in my thoughts and prayers.
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 11:51:40 AM
|
| Thanks Carson.I have find a store (not internet) here in Spain with the book in spanish. |
|
|
|
yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 12:10:44 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by miguel
Where can i learn more about active surrender Carson?Its related to bhakti?some yoganis lesson?im interested!
I need Gods hand now!
Hi Miguel:
The reason the "stop seeking" thing is so confusing is because for everyone it is different. We may stop seeking in the end, and some may make an ideal out of that. On the other hand, everyone is seeking according to their own situation, even (especially) the one who says, "Stop seeking!" That person is seeking your non-seeking.
The key is to go with your own highest ideal (ishta) and forget about what anyone else tells you your ideal should be. The Bhakti and Karma Yoga book goes into this in some detail, including the phenomenon/practice of active surrender.
Youth is the time to be going for it. The energy of youth, well applied, blossoms into the direct experience of divine presence. Later on, the body will slow down and there will be more work going on inside. So wherever we are in life, let's not waste a minute.
In the latest lesson (#326), seeking is noted to be a form of self-inquiry, and like all self-inquiry, the more relational (in stillness) it is, the less it will be seeking, and the more effective it will be. We know we are getting closer when we are becoming comfortable with such paradoxes, and not worrying about whether it is one thing or the other. It is all One. 
In the Bible, Jesus says, "Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will open."
The answer is to keep seeking until you don't feel the need to any more. It will not hold you back. Seeking is the source of your unfoldment, until it dissolves in stillness and isn't personal seeking anymore. Then it is "stillness in action," which is a divine seeking. You know what it is for you today, and that is how it should be. No one else can tell you what it must be for you in this moment.
Just to stay with the topic, yes, the times they are changing. The lesson (#93) I wrote on this 5 years ago seems ancient compared to what is happening in the world now. Is it all going too fast? Boy, that is music to my ears. It's about time. Much better to be learning how to self-pace rapid openings (individually and globally) than to be "seeking" for centuries more for the key levers of human spiritual transformation. It's time to move on.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: Many well-known non-duality (advaita) teachers preach that everyone should stop seeking. It is bad advice for most people.
|
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 12:53:38 PM
|
Hi Miguel...Yogani...
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Many well-known non-duality (advaita) teachers preach that everyone should stop seeking. It is bad advice for most people.
Sorry if I was giving "bad" advice or speaking out of turn here. It wasn't intended (is anything ever intended to be "bad"?). I was only speaking from my heart. Hope I didn't confuse you Miguel. You should just forget what I said and go with Yogani's advice. Obviously.
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 1:43:30 PM
|
Hi Yogani,
Your answer is the answer that i was looking for...thanks you very much,God bless you...
Carson,
Thank you very much for your help and advices,they helped me reaching the answer i was looking for...very fast!
Love!!! The times they are a-changin'!!!
|
Edited by - miguel on May 01 2009 2:00:37 PM |
|
|
|
yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 1:57:29 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi Miguel...Yogani...
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Many well-known non-duality (advaita) teachers preach that everyone should stop seeking. It is bad advice for most people.
Sorry if I was giving "bad" advice or speaking out of turn here. It wasn't intended (is anything ever intended to be "bad"?). I was only speaking from my heart. Hope I didn't confuse you Miguel. You should just forget what I said and go with Yogani's advice. Obviously.
Love,
Carson
Hi Carson:
"Active surrender" (you mentioned) is very good advice, which is doing (seeking) even as we are letting go. It is something we become familiar with in daily samyama sitting practice, and it creeps out into our normal activities during the day, making life much easier ... relational ... doing in stillness ... stillness in action.
Bhakti, deep meditation, samyama, self inquiry, kundalini, etc ... all of these things are interwoven, in practice, and ultimately in the wholeness of our daily living. The lessons will discuss more on these integrations in results as we move along.
Ether, I was not responding to your mention of "stopping seeking" as much as to some reading I have been doing lately. Just yesterday, I was reading a famous non-duality author who suggests that everyone should stop seeking. That is a very relative statement, applying only in certain circumstances, like in one who is experiencing "active surrender," which is not something everyone can jump into overnight. Likewise, relational self-inquiry does not happen overnight, but it does happen for those who are willing to do the groundwork.
Without the groundwork, "stop seeking" and "be here now," are mere platitudes, no matter how much gorgeous language these may be wrapped in. If taken too seriously at the wrong time they can cause confusion and delay, as Miguel and others here have experienced.
For those who have done the groundwork, and then some, the platitudes become common experience, not needing much of a recommendation. It is a matter of putting the horse in front of the cart. Doing that will keep the times a-changing.
The guru is in you.
|
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 7:38:42 PM
|
Yogani wrote:
quote:
Without the groundwork, "stop seeking" and "be here now," are mere platitudes, no matter how much gorgeous language these may be wrapped in. If taken too seriously at the wrong time they can cause confusion and delay, as Miguel and others here have experienced.
Thank you Yogani:
But don't you think "stop seeking" and "be here now" can be at least partially easily implemented by curtailing habitual thinking of the future?
Some people are stuck in the past, and some in the future.
If you make at least some effort to think in the present, I think it can be of great benefit during your non-practice time of the day. |
|
|
|
brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 10:30:32 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Yogani wrote:
[quote]Thank you Yogani:
But don't you think "stop seeking" and "be here now" can be at least partially easily implemented by curtailing habitual thinking of the future?
Some people are stuck in the past, and some in the future.
If you make at least some effort to think in the present, I think it can be of great benefit during your non-practice time of the day.
Stop seeking does not have to mean stop all practices. So if you have "groundwork" be it AYP, Christinity, etc. etc... you can still stop seeking while doing a practice. So I make up this statement, "Do your practices and stop seeking", sound like an oxymoron? I dont see it as such. Meditate, go into stillness, let it unfold, and enjoy here, now.
with love
Brother Neil
|
|
|
|
yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2009 : 12:51:07 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Yogani wrote:
quote:
Without the groundwork, "stop seeking" and "be here now," are mere platitudes, no matter how much gorgeous language these may be wrapped in. If taken too seriously at the wrong time they can cause confusion and delay, as Miguel and others here have experienced.
Thank you Yogani:
But don't you think "stop seeking" and "be here now" can be at least partially easily implemented by curtailing habitual thinking of the future?
Some people are stuck in the past, and some in the future.
If you make at least some effort to think in the present, I think it can be of great benefit during your non-practice time of the day.
Hi Ether:
As general philosophical concepts, sure, there is nothing wrong with discussing these, or any expressions of ultimate truth. They can inspire. But if the concepts are imposed thereafter as a rule for practice (or non-practice), either in opposition to one's natural bhakti to practice in other ways, or as a stand-alone approach that blocks other options altogether, then there is a problem. It can add more layers of mind-stuff.
This is the hazard of trying to carry such concepts beyond initial inspiration by themselves. They are only mental concepts, after all. In and of themselves they are not practice. Only when they become relational in stillness do they have the ability to promote the later stages of human spiritual transformation.
We have seen people get hung up in this so often, sometimes for years. It is particularly problematic when coming from an influential teacher. How could someone so great be wrong? If it isn't working for the student, if there is ongoing doubt and confusion occurring in the student (mind running in circles), then there must be something wrong with the student, right?
Wrong.
This is a scenario we should guard against for the sake of all practitioners. For the same reason, when people come to me in private with budding non-duality experiences, saying they want to share that with everyone, I remind them not to forget to tell others how they got there. The destination is not the path. The concept of the destination isn't the path either. "Stop seeking" and "be here now" are the destination. Not the path. Something more is required before these can be experienced authentically -- groundwork!
Once our inquiry becomes relational in stillness, all concepts become fair game for practice between our sittings.
This was also discussed in a recent lesson called "self-inquiry - from inspiration to realization" -- http://www.aypsite.org/324.html
...and in the lessons before and after too.
The guru is in you.
|
|
|
|
Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2009 : 10:47:10 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Hi Miguel:
The reason the "stop seeking" thing is so confusing is because for everyone it is different. We may stop seeking in the end, and some may make an ideal out of that. On the other hand, everyone is seeking according to their own situation, even (especially) the one who says, "Stop seeking!" That person is seeking your non-seeking.
The key is to go with your own highest ideal (ishta) and forget about what anyone else tells you your ideal should be. The Bhakti and Karma Yoga book goes into this in some detail, including the phenomenon/practice of active surrender.
PS: Many well-known non-duality (advaita) teachers preach that everyone should stop seeking. It is bad advice for most people.
I am always amazed at how Yogani can, in a few words, so clearly explain things that would take me paragraphs to explain. Thank You Yogani. I learn so much from you, not just in form of lessons, but in terms of how to get a point across in very few words, how to be compassionate and the biggest thing, never to forget where I came from and when starting how frustrating it is to understand concepts that are beyond the mind. Thank You again.
Seeking is like adding fuel to the fire, the fire of desire/bhakti . When we start cooking we need to add heat to cook the food. As the food cooks we may reduce the heat, add ingredients, adjust the temperature. It's only when the food is completely cooked can we take it off the heat. Similarly we need to add seeking, adjust seeking and continue seeking while we are on our spiritual path. Stopping seeking comes much much later in our journey. Yes, people warn about stopping seeking because they have experienced getting caught up in the seeking. But they forget to come to the point where you realize you were caught up in seeking, you had to be seeking. It's the seeking that got them there. The seeking was not a waste of time, it was required to bring them to the point where they could go beyond. The fact that they were ready to drop the seeking was also revealed to them when they were ready to drop the seeking. Don't throw out the technique till it's work is done.
You need an ishta, be it seeking for god or guru or a truth. Seeking your ishta is your crutch that will help you to learn to walk. If you drop your crutch too early in your path, you may never be able to walk or take a long time to walk or do it the hard way. Keep your crutch for as long as you need it and when the time is right for you to walk without the crutch, your ishta will guide you, your silence will know when its time to stop the seeking.. till then just keep going... keeping faith in the silence, ishta.. knowing it will all be revealed to you when you are ready.
Ramakrishna was attached to Ma Kali in his path (duality, he and Ma Kali were separate). She was his ishta. She helped him advance to a point where on Totapuri's advice and with the permission of Ma Kali could he lift the sword to cut Ma Kali in half to become one with Ma (non-dual). He however never said the ishta, the path were not required.. it is required to climb the ladder to the oneness.. when you have reached that final step you will be guided to drop the attachment to the seeking. Know this in your heart and seek away.
Continue with your AYP practices like you brush your teeth, wherein you are not caught up in the practice but enjoy what the practice brings to your life. Once you have advanced to that place where you can drop your seeking, your inner silence will guide you, you have nothing to worry about as long as you are not caught up in ideas.. as long as you are open and allow things to happen to you and not go about making things happen to you.
Like Yogani said, don't go by anyone else's experience, experience your own experiences. There is no other way. People can draw you a map, but the map is not the actual path, it's just a guide, when you walk your walk, the path will have its own set of scenery, potholes, mountains, rivers and resting places. Enjoy your walk. |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2009 : 11:35:26 AM
|
Absolutely Shanti,
I have stopped seeking lots of times in my life. They were the most dark times and least happy, when I got caught up in the illusion, and thought the meaning of life was in TV commercials.
Thanks Yogani,
I had to go read those lessons and stretch my brain a little to get the 'relational' concept! Now I get it. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
The Times They are A-Changing'
