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emc
2072 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 02:05:31 AM
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quote:
Many who provide advice should be silent. I am one of those.
 Thank you, Ösel, for sharing your knowledge, wisdom, realizations and experiences. How empty this forum would be without contributors like you! It's easy to get trapped into the "sharing mode" when lurking around this forum...  Much appreciated! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 04:26:08 AM
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Hi Osel
quote:
Hi Christi, He did talk about his experiences once he attained buddhahood. He spoke about dharma. One of his teachings was not to talk about visions, realizations and dream experiences, except with the guru who can advise about what to do. Once you have attained no more learning one is a buddha, and should use the miracle power, prophecy and wisdom energy in any way it may benefit sentient beings. You are correct what you say about Vinaya.
You are not correct that there are no such spiritual teachers. They are rare though. I've luckily found one. How long he will be available is not certain. Students encounter that which is in accord with karma.
The reason why we don't talk about experiences goes beyond Vinaya. Wisdom is an energy that, for practitioners, is small like a candle flame. It is easily extinguished. It is about energy. A new meditator should conserve and keep the mind quiet.
I can accept that many need to voice their experiences, because this Satsangha is guru-like. I see problems here, because Yogani is the guru; he should chime in more. I see a lot of tail chasing going on. No offense please. He chimes in sometimes. I would like to see it more. His insights are quite good and he is close to the Dharma.
Probably, people need to ask him directly with their posts like "Yogani: Need advice" or something. Many who provide advice should be silent. I am one of those.
I bow to you...
Ösel
I did not say that there were no such spiritual teachers... only that I did not know any. I am sure they exist, just not in my corner of the world. You are very lucky to have such a teacher, it is a rare blessing.
I agree with you when you say that in the early stages people can be very fragile, and should be careful about who they share things with. As Peter says, everyone needs to work out the right balance for themselves.
Thanks for sharing your wisdom... I wish you all the best.
Christi |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 07:06:59 AM
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Osel,
This is the dawning of a new age. Spiritual energy is increasing. People are able to go much further and faster on the spiritual path, and it is much easier than before. If you have been on the path for a while you can feel it.
So there are still one-on-one guru relationships, but it is no longer necessary like it used to be. Yogani has started AYP as a path for many many more than he could have helped on-on-one.
And part of this new direction is people can easily find their inner guru to guide them. You will see signs of this everywhere in the forums. Another part of the system is that Yogani doesn't wish to be elevated above anyone else. He doesn't want to be put on a pedestal, and instead he wishes to transmit the teachings to many people, and have them help each other in the forums. Times have changed and this is now possible.
This is not to say there is anything wrong with a guru-student relationship. Just that there is another way now. And it's wonderful because 1) there aren't enough gurus to go around, and 2) many people are getting involved that would not have been dedicated enough to attract a guru, then slowly they are on a good path. So yes, there is a lot of "tail-chasing" here, but it's OK.
No need for Yogani to stop it. When people are ready to learn a little more, every page here is literally surrounded with opportunities!
So Osel, don't hesitate to chime in at any time. Nobody here claims to be perfect, and people like yourself who think they should be silent can often provide the best advice. We all say the wrong thing sometimes, and that's OK. We just try to constantly improve. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Mar 25 2009 07:08:51 AM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 08:18:34 AM
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Hi Etherfish,
Well Yogani has been put on a pedestal and is revered as a guru even if he does not want it.I'm not judging if that is correct or not simply stating fact.
Osel mentioned advice and I think you may have missed the point.I have seen some on here who have been on a short time giving allsorts of advice, not knowing if it is correct but using the inner guru,which we all have no matter what or who we follow.In fact as you know the medicine is different for all of us so it may not be a good idea to follow blindly.Probably the best advice would be 'read the lessons'as Yogani is the resident 'expert.'This is akin to having direct feedback from an enlightened guru as Osel talks about.
L&L
Dave |
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Peter
Italy
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 09:50:01 AM
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As the short-timer being referred to above, I'll chime in here...
We each are experiencing the Truth right now as it reveals itself to us - right now. The odd thing is, Truth reflects so differently to each of us, especially when it is reduced to words - though it can take fire in words as well.... for better or for worse.
Reconciling your Truth with That is the great work!
A dio a tutti!  |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 1:29:52 PM
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Hi Peter,
I was not referring to you or anyone else specifically.
L&L
Dave |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 4:54:27 PM
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Hi Etherfish, Your comments are well received. What you say is about the great blessing of our time.
While we may be reaching a new era, this era is within a degenerate age. Previous eras within our own age were more likely to produce enlightened beings. In the Buddha's time, entire city's would become enlightened and the city would be deserted. Within the 500 years of the Buddha's birth there were so many great beings, Socrates, Jesus, etc., etc. Our time is nothing like that. We are still getting acquainted with the 3,000 year old teachings.
We are entering an era within a degenerate time when things degenerate faster. Due to the speed of change, dharma becomes more desireable. Due to our increased education and intelligence, we understand faster. Due to the increase in suffering we want the fast path. The fast path is what gets people in trouble, I think for the obvious reasons: the teachings are dangerous sometimes or people get reckless.
All of this blessing is relative to an increase in suffering around the world. These conditions, in my feeling, make it more difficult to meet good teachers, and more likely to meet false ones. My lineage describes the torment that has befallen Tibet is due to karma associated with lamas teaching false dharma. Correct teaching that lead to genuine enlightenment is most rare. There are literally only a handful of people on Earth who have the direct transmissions.
I have faith that dharma will be preserved within our generation, and that the means to enlightenment will flourish. I have faith, based on what I see in people like you, that the proliferation of Yoga and the teachings of the sutras and tantras will provide fertile ground in the generations to come for masses of people to achieve sudden and complete enlightenment.
Our motivation to complete this work for all beings will re-invest our merit on behalf of others in preparation for the time to come. In a short time, the pith instructions will be transmitted to many more people than ever before, because so many will be ready. Many will reach enlightenment even in the next decade.
Then time will pass, the age will degenerate further. People will ridicule the pith instructions. They will be lost or forgotten. Yoga and dharma will be like a crime. A dark age will continue for generations until another Buddha is born. This is thousands of years from now. Such is the nature of the Wheel of Time, the cosmic Kalachakra.
Now, we must simply embrace one another. There is no opposition between dharma or yoga. We all have the capacity for enlightenment; we have a precious human life; we can meet excellent teachers and excellent teachings; all things are impermanent so there is nothing of form or formless worth feeling attached; keep in mind the suffering of all beings and cause and result; we must guard our actions so as not harm anyone at all; then, we must arouse loving-kindness for all beings and generate a motivation to become enlightened not for ourselves but for all. With these points in mind, enlightenment is inevitable on the fast track.
So if the fast track is what's coming, then, we need these points to see our mind's real nature.Perhaps we will share discourses flying through the sky or inside of a mountain.
_/|\_
Ösel |
Edited by - Konchok Ösel Dorje on Mar 25 2009 5:04:15 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 9:04:41 PM
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Well, who knows what will happen in the future. I see it as being much brighter than what you describe. I think what appears to be a very degenerate age, is just the opposite. How can this be?
Because all of the corruption we see was already there, but it was hidden. Dishonest people were always getting away with it, and the common person was unaware. Now the common person is becoming aware and all the bad is being exposed, but it is not new. As it is exposed, the guilty are acting desparate and foolish, expecting things to return to the old ways.
I love seeing how unbelievably bizarre things are becoming in the news. Why? Because the worse things seem, the more they will change. When corruption was hidden there was no impetus to change it.
So as good people are helping each other more, and beginning the endless path of the enlightened life, also the corrupt choose to become more corrupt. There is a split widening between two halves of civilization. Nobody is doomed except by their own choice. And more and more people are making the right choice, as evidenced in these forums.
Once people make a solid connection with their inner guru, they realize that they have divine guidance within themselves. At this point there is no longer anything to fear. Whatever happens in the world they know they are doing what is best, moment by moment.
And the connection is easy to make, just meditating twice a day.
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2009 : 01:06:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Now the common person is becoming aware and all the bad is being exposed, but it is not new. As it is exposed, the guilty are acting desparate and foolish, expecting things to return to the old ways.
Ether, I see this happening as well. On a similar note, I'm also seeing a lot of people hit the kind of "rock bottom" that spurs many folks onto a spiritual path. It seems like many "non-spiritual" people are starting to wake up to the fact that happiness is not in the next promotion or BMW, but is inside.
At least that's what I'm seeing in the lives of people around me. I think the chaos is driving us to awaken.
Love
cosmic |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2009 : 01:09:10 AM
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My bad, I almost forgot:
1. Yes
2. No
3. n/a
4. Yes
5. No
6. n/a
Peace |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2009 : 04:00:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cosmic_troll
I think the chaos is driving us to awaken.
Love
cosmic
that's keen insight dear Cosmic, and it's working it really is the more there is dirt floating up to the surface the more awakened people are becoming.
rock bottom = reality check-> nothing to lose-> total surrender-> dropping down of attachments-> awareness-> being in the now-> "waking up."
kindest regards,
Ananda
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2009 : 05:18:20 AM
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Nice post Ether and I hope it is happening as you say.It is good that things are coming out and the 'guilty' are not able to hide, leaves little chance for those to say they are doing it for the people when we know it's for their ego.
L&L
Dave |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2009 : 3:49:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
rock bottom = reality check-> nothing to lose-> total surrender-> dropping down of attachments-> awareness-> being in the now-> "waking up."
Ananda, you've captured this process very well my friend . This is exactly what I've experienced when the big breakthroughs occurred. So, I'm sure you've been down this road as well
Peace |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2009 : 6:21:52 PM
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This is all very good. I believe that a major driving force behind the desire to enter the path is dissatisfaction with samsara. At some point, we all realize there is an abiding which is free of the ping pong of lusts, disgusts and everything in between. These days, porn to fear factor; superficial reality dramas: it's all so extreme. All the luster of samsara is gone for many of us. If there is no pleasure in pleasure, then this is the next step on the bliss quest.
What Ananda maps out is the path taken by so many Buddhas and masters. All the great Yogis followed this path of hardship to awakening. Bravo. |
Edited by - Konchok Ösel Dorje on Mar 26 2009 6:28:51 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 27 2009 : 08:06:01 AM
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What is ironic is that although I reached that rock bottom many years ago, i have come full circle now. I have learned that meditation is essential and the spiritual is the most important part of my life, but also I have learned to enjoy life.
There are two balanced sides now. On the one hand, I gave up trying to attain certain dreams because they seemed impossible. Then i started meditating so I could make sense of my life without the goals I wanted. Then I started working toward other non-spiritual goals where I just enjoy the process and the goal doesn't matter. Now I enjoy life AND have a spiritual side.
Before I made that change, it was too easy to forget my spiritual side for long periods of time. And if I had made great progress on my original goals I would have mostly wasted this lifetime. Now I have the information that i could have achieved the original goals if I was younger again.
But I no longer care about those things and am happy with my life the way it is. It seems as though my psychological predisposition in this life that seemed so flawed and disfunctional was perfect! |
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Nancy
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 02:55:51 AM
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1. Have you ever experienced the witness state?
Yes
2. If yes, does it seem to you that you can willfully bring it on?
Yes
3. If yes, does willfully bringing it on require a specific setting or procedure?
Yes
4. Have you ever had a peak experience?
Yes
5. If yes, does it seem to you that you can willfully bring it on?
Yes
6. If yes, does willfully bringing it on require a specific setting or procedure?
Yes
Everyone can simply....Daily meditation with awareness in meditation and throughout your days, as well as daily grounding, healthy eating, and exercise. |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2009 : 05:38:58 AM
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Nancy - what specifically do you refer to when you say "daily grounding"?
Thank you |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2009 : 07:23:02 AM
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many things are good for daily grounding; exercise, working in the dirt, helping non-spiritual people.
Nancy, when you say "yes" to 2,3,5, and 6, can you actually control when you have these experiences? I mean of course they are a result of meditation etc, but can you say i will experience the witness state now, and sit down and do it? |
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nandhi
USA
362 Posts |
Posted - Apr 09 2009 : 02:59:26 AM
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aum
as yes to all - within breath as the journey to the breathless. in breath is human reality. beyond in the breathless realm of stillness is spirit. the journey of two rivers of breath into and from the ocean of breathless is the moment's choice.
inner journey to be (witness) - samadhi(being one) - conscious samadhi (turiya)- awake mind (mind at work) - the five senses (normalcy to sleep) - inner journey again on waking up - another cycle of consciousness that flows through each state each day. all in journey through awareness within breath, the mind and what is.
hey divine peter- your words were provoking- - "Just kidding...but I bet I got your attention! "
pranaams to each of you divine angelic beings of this infinite moment in the wisdom of karma and dharma. pranaams and blessings!
blessings of each to each as cosmic embrace!
jai guruve thunai, may the awake inner guru be the alight as guide to intellect in the surrendered each inhale that flows as the 'mind'.
aum
divine nancy- yes, mother earth blessed and inspired elements all alight as grace that is fulfilling. grounded blessings!:)
gratitude! |
Edited by - nandhi on Apr 09 2009 5:02:43 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Apr 13 2009 : 3:55:21 PM
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And blessings to you too Nandhi :)
Christi
p.s. What's the difference between samadhi and turya?
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nandhi
USA
362 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2009 : 03:00:49 AM
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aum
divine christi!
loved what you wrote earlier on. your presence is blessings!:)
your question- What's the difference between samadhi and turya
although samadhi is the state of union in totality with the five senses merged with the divine, it is like a car with its wheels removed.
turiya on the other hand is conscious samadhi- where there is awareness while utilizing the the states of the mind below.turiya states could be said to be the journey beyond "enlightenment".
aum |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2009 : 12:46:05 PM
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1. Have you ever experienced the witness state?
Yes, much of the time.
2. If yes, does it seem to you that you can willfully bring it on?
Yes
3. If yes, does willfully bringing it on require a specific setting or procedure?
It requires the witness disposition, letting go of all forms except I-am.
4. Have you ever had a peak experience?
Yes, see my recent post on the kundalini/tantra stream.
5. If yes, does it seem to you that you can willfully bring it on?
No, the experiences I refer to were unsought.
6. If yes, does willfully bringing it on require a specific setting or procedure
I was asleep. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2009 : 09:56:04 AM
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Hi Chinna,
Welcome to the forum.
quote:
4. Have you ever had a peak experience?
Yes, see my recent post on the kundalini/tantra stream.
You can link to another post if you want to by opening that post in a seperate window, clicking on the earth shaped icon with the arrow, and coppying and pasting the url that comes up into your new post.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Christi
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2009 : 09:59:40 AM
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Hi Nandhi,
quote:
aum
divine christi!
loved what you wrote earlier on. your presence is blessings!:)
your question- What's the difference between samadhi and turya
although samadhi is the state of union in totality with the five senses merged with the divine, it is like a car with its wheels removed.
turiya on the other hand is conscious samadhi- where there is awareness while utilizing the the states of the mind below.turiya states could be said to be the journey beyond "enlightenment".
aum
So the turya states are states of sahaja samadhi? Is that right? Remaining in samadhi whilst conscious of the sensory world and able to utilize the rational mind if you need to?
Christi |
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nandhi
USA
362 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 5:25:19 PM
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aum
So the turya states are states of sahaja samadhi? Is that right? Remaining in samadhi whilst conscious of the sensory world and able to utilize the rational mind if you need to?
Christi
yes, divine christi!
behind terms to denote 'sahaja' is experience of being at the receiving end of grace each breath that allows grace to flow through breath that entwines the breathless eternal joy of spirit with intellect. absorbed by our awake roots to worship the five elements that we are through knowing purpose, sahaja is immense doing while in stillness as the awake mind.
and the journey continues with a difference- no more chopping wood while knowing the short stay in the body shrine and the joyful purpose aligning source to mind and action for the highest good- as a bodhisattva. for- it is only at the receiving end of grace for all masters of higher consciousness to glide rather than fly as fulfilling joys are inspiring- always!
jai guruve thunai
pranaams to each of us of these magical moments in breath shared together as one! as love! as wisdom of compassion! as fun!
aum
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Edited by - nandhi on Apr 16 2009 6:59:31 PM |
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