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neli
USA
283 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 22 2008 : 11:23:41 PM
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Ananda
I have found that the "shri shri iam iam" has a lot of ecstatic conductivity, thanks for the tip.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
namaste my friends, just my 2 cents on the matter.
if it's invented or not i personaly do not care, cz the simple truth is it works for me.
i've been through several systems of spiritual practice in my life and found some good results in most of them but nothing as i've found in ayp.
it just feels like it's home, like i've found something i've been missing.
ayp simply works for me, i just go for it twice daily and it takes care of itself pure bliss conciousness, ecstatic conductivity, outpouring divine love it's just there and it's more beautiful then imagined and it just keeps on getting better even with the ups and downs sometimes and the solution for these is self pacing in my case.
now concerning egotism, i'd say it's the other way arround it's more of a socialism a let go of the ego.
if someone finds a treasure and doesn't keep it to himself does this make him an egoistic person? i guess not.
anyways ayam exists in mantra books but is written AYAM and i've searched for it's meaning once and found it but i can't remember it now don't wanna give too much attention for it's meaning  just the vibratory qualities.
now if i told you that i've found that the name of God in arabic Allah has the same vibratory effects in his end like the mantra Namah and told you to just say or chant Ahhhh and that would work on opening your heart chakra does this make me an egoistic person? and i'm saying that out of my personal experience and a suffi friend of mine.
i'm only doing ayp's second mantra enhancement for now, the chanting or repeating or talawat el zekr of the name allah or the mantra ah was a practice which i've been doing b4 ayp.
shri shri iam iam is working just fine for me, from the first time i introduced it i went into samadhi...
light and love,
Ananda
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Oct 23 2008 : 11:12:24 AM
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| so true neli, the same goes for the basic mantra Iam which is what made it possible for us to experience the beauty of the 1st mantra enhancement in the best way there is. |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 12:33:52 AM
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Ananda and all,
I also practice the I am, but in my case it works in my mind, giving me strenght, I mean I haven't felt the ecstatic conductivity of the first mantra yet, unless I use the enhancement. Maybe is very subtle.
I have also found that grounding is very important, if one gets overload, one becomes very irritable. Walking is one of the best things for grounding.
I would like to know why does people gets overload? have you ever felt overload? I think I have felt that, when I feel like grumpy with people or friends. I know that self-pace is essential, but in my case is very hard, cause I'm used to long meditations.
We can see the energy working inside us, if one see our interaction with others, as well.
But how can we differ the overloading with external happenings?? By our reactions? What if we are incited by others ? Do we have to put the other cheek to please other's rage ?
Thanks for your advices.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
so true neli, the same goes for the basic mantra Iam which is what made it possible for us to experience the beauty of the 1st mantra enhancement in the best way there is.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 2:25:59 PM
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hi neli, it's actually quite plain and simple; your problem is that you meditate too much and you should cut that out.
try 20 or 30 minutes at morning and evening time, go for that give it a try and concider getting a good amount of rest b4 you get from you deep meditation session.
plus doing the shri shri iam iam mantra directly is overdoing in practice as well it's going too far.
it's like pressing too hard on the gas pedal and changing the gear from 1 to 5 at one shot and that simply doesn't work.
take things slowly, start with iam mantra at 1st to easy up your nervous system and give it some time.
i don't think that ecstatic conductivity and lights and so on is always a good sign, i can say that out of my yoni mudra practice which sounded so good that i overstepped myself with it's practice which led me later to a case of pain in all my sushumna and it was obvious that some self pacing was needed so i completely cutted off the practice and am trying it from time to time until i get settled.
take things easily there's no need to rush just follow yogani's lessons step by step and you'll get there.
namaste |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2008 : 01:23:11 AM
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Ananda
Thanks for your reply.
The problem is that I cannot low the speed from 5 to 1 at one shot, I mean I have lessened the time, to one hour, or one hour and half. I mean in 20 minutes my mind is beginning to be quite, or beginning to calm down. Maybe I have to lessen to one hour, instead of one and a half.
The good point is that I have noticed the overloading symptoms, like irritation, bad mood, insomnia, and know now that walking a lot helps to get rid of the overloading symptoms.
I am doing the I am mantra for 30 seconds or more, I'll try to cut off the shri mantra for a while.
I feel like a racing car trying to run at first gear, its quite hard for me. Maybe I am an hyperactive person, or evolved into that.
Yesterday for the first time I felt the ecstatic conductivity on my fingers, with the I am mantra, its not that I am waiting to feel something, maybe it is that I have always felt something and then it stopped suddenly and I felt strange.
I am trying to control this hyperactivity, even if people are not nice (mostly when driving), I also drive slower than before.
The only physical symptom that I have felt lately is the hyperactivity, before I was not that. But the long walks have helped me to lessen this symptom.
Thanks for your advice. I'll try to do my best.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
hi neli, it's actually quite plain and simple; your problem is that you meditate too much and you should cut that out.
try 20 or 30 minutes at morning and evening time, go for that give it a try and concider getting a good amount of rest b4 you get from you deep meditation session.
plus doing the shri shri iam iam mantra directly is overdoing in practice as well it's going too far.
it's like pressing too hard on the gas pedal and changing the gear from 1 to 5 at one shot and that simply doesn't work.
take things slowly, start with iam mantra at 1st to easy up your nervous system and give it some time.
i don't think that ecstatic conductivity and lights and so on is always a good sign, i can say that out of my yoni mudra practice which sounded so good that i overstepped myself with it's practice which led me later to a case of pain in all my sushumna and it was obvious that some self pacing was needed so i completely cutted off the practice and am trying it from time to time until i get settled.
take things easily there's no need to rush just follow yogani's lessons step by step and you'll get there.
namaste
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 09:16:51 AM
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i'm sorry my friend if i am going to be too obvious and clear of what will come out of me, bcz i'm saying it for your own good.
the way you're going at it is simply chaotic, you wont have no good results by overloading all the time.
you will have a damaged nervous system that needs a lot of care and no running in the world will take the overload symptoms off when the ... hits the fan.
sorry to be saying this but you need to put some order into your life and follow a specific system for spiritual practice one which is safe like yogani's ayp or which ever system you find most suited for you.
plus once the 1st enhancement is added, there's no need to practice iam mantra alone it's included in the enhancement.
if you want spiritual evolution then you have to take the safe way, a structured way.
you need to self pace it's easier then you think some people do cut off all practices at once sometimes just take hold of yourself and restart again step by step.
it doesn't matter how long we sit in meditation, what matters is that we give our nervous system the necessary time and tools to purify itself otherwise if we step over the edge and overload then we are holding back our spiritual evolution plus hurting ourselves and instead of going to the world bcz of our daily practices we would go irritated and not feeling so well...
i hope my words weren't too hard, i meant them in good intention.
namaste my friend,
Ananda |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 1:52:22 PM
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quote:
it doesn't matter how long we sit in meditation, what matters is that we give our nervous system the necessary time and tools to purify itself otherwise if we step over the edge and overload then we are holding back our spiritual evolution
What justification have you for saying that overloading holds back spiritual evolution? Just curious thats all as I've never read that anywhere else.
L&L
Dave |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 2:18:43 PM
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Hi riptiz,
Yogani says that all the time as well. And I think it is common sense: overloading symptoms can deter one from the spiritual path or oblige one to make detours, which will further take more time until things stabilise again. So better not get destabilised in the first place, no? |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 3:17:36 PM
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Hi,
Well I still don't think that because Yogani says it, means that it is fact.
I was once a member of a reiki forum and happened to say that if one gives Reiki (or energy) to someone who is in a flare up (from MS or similar illneess,)then it is a likelehood that you will cause the person discomfort.This happened to someone when I attuned them to Reiki while having a flare up.
A lady said I spoke nonsense as Reiki does no harm and several days later in a post said that giving Reiki to someone who had cancer using quartz crystal was dangerous.When I questioned her source(remember she said Reiki does no harm)she said her teacher told her.I fell about laughing.We are taking things on faith but it does not necessarily follow that it is correct information.
L&L
Dave |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 3:35:08 PM
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hello riptiz and yoga is life, it comes down first to common sense too much of anything either be it bad or good will end up with unlikeable results.
second i speak out of my personal experience and the experiences of others i've met on the path.
3rd such long spiritual activities with the presence of irritation especialy if someone is doing pranayamas might lead into horrible case scenarios like madness hallucinations and sometimes death and this stuff doesn't exist only in the world of yoga but as well in suffism where a person loses touch with what is real and what is not.
take for example overloading with adding practices: for someone who is looking for the tools to get enlightened finding ayp is like being a kid in a candy store and if you eat too much candy well 1st you'll get sick and scnd your teeth will hurt as hell and you probably wont eat candy for a long time.
the same thing goes for a person who adds a lot of powerful spiritual practices into a nervous system who is not purified enough to deal with the energy eminating from these practices which will lead into pain and discomfort.
so why go the hard way when we take the easy way which will bring more results than the other one and our lifes would be affected in a more beautiful way.
namaste
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 3:52:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by riptiz
quote:
it doesn't matter how long we sit in meditation, what matters is that we give our nervous system the necessary time and tools to purify itself otherwise if we step over the edge and overload then we are holding back our spiritual evolution
What justification have you for saying that overloading holds back spiritual evolution? Just curious thats all as I've never read that anywhere else.
L&L
Dave
Hi Riptiz:
The simple answer is that if we overdo, we can get to a degree of discomfort with symptoms that we can't practice anymore for a time, maybe a long time if symptoms become severe. It takes time to recover from excesses. That is why I say overdoing can delay our progress, and that less can be more in spiritual practice. I think many have had this experience to one degree or other. It is part of the learning curve we climb to develop our skill in self-pacing.
It is the same with anything, and that is what is behind the saying that we can have too much of a good thing. It never happened to you?
The guru is in you.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 4:11:23 PM
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Hi
I strongly advise you to self-pace too, Neli. Ananda is not saying what he is to be right - he says it because his experience has shown him that it is so.
As for myself - I have had a lot of ecstatic conductivity over the past 4 years, and in the case of deep meditation less meditation gave more profound results. Balance is the key. When there is balance between sitting practises and the life we lead in between practises....then results happen. Steady we progress on this road. Like the tortoise we carry our home with us wherever we go. All along there is progress. All along we are That.
In other words.....with ...i am....20 min for just the meditation is enough. Twice a day. Don't forget that the impact on the nervous system continues through the whole day and night...whether we are aware of it or not.
If you cannot calm down in 20 min....then you could start your session with exercise....and then simply allow time for yourself to get used to "nothing is happening if I sit only for 20 min". Something is happening still.
But the most important thing as far as my experience goes when it comes to overload....is the fact that when the energy is raging....it becomes much more difficult to acces the inner silence. And that is why we sit in the first place.....to dip ourselves in the ocean of silence. Not to bathe in ecstacy.
Your difficulty with "not calming down during the first 20 min".....is to me itself a sign of constant overload.
Reduce to 20 min anyhow.....and give it time.....what happens if you sit just for 20 min? Other than the feeling of not calming down....is anything else happening if you sit for only 20 min?
Hope you will consider doing AYP the way it is suggested. At least for a while...until you can judge for yourself. And remember - it is going to feel "strange"..."off"....."wrong"......"as if it isn't working".......But stick with it until this fase passes. And then you can judge.
I wish you all the best. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 4:12:56 PM
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| Hi Yogani....we cross posted |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 4:44:05 PM
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quote:
Hi,
Well I still don't think that because Yogani says it, means that it is fact.
Hi Dave. No, I did not say that. You just wrote that it was the first time you read that, so I was trying to make the point that even Yogani, in his lessons, had made the point that overdoing could delay progress.
For me, I don't believe him because he says so, but I believe him because it makes sense to me, from my own experiences. I think it is common sense (at least for me!). Moderation in all things, as they say! Especially if they are too powerful. It can be hard, I agree, but you can also learn the lesson the hard way and then you'll know better next time for sure! But again, to each its own. |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2008 : 02:53:00 AM
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Hi Ananda,
I understand what you say, but how to know if I am overloading?
My long meditations comes from the Jhanas practices, as I just came out of it (months ago) I have spent more than 3 hours in deep meditations for many years, and I have never felt overloading, but you can be right, I could be overloaded, but how ? I have lessened to one hour and half, or less, I mean "my car" is already raced since long time ago, but have never felt bad, not even now, maybe my nervous system is used to this speed.
I mean what about if my nervous system is different from others, and cannot stand with 20 minutes per day ? Maybe it would have worked if I wouldn't came out from Jhanas, cause I think that in Jhanas my nervous system got used to the long meditations, then the Kundalini energy awakened by itself, and it lasted more than a year that I never put attention to any symptoms of kundalini, till I moved, to feel the ecstasies of the kundalini, although in jhanas I had already ecstatic symptoms, but liked better the K ecstasies.
Meditation for me is like food to my nervous system, if I don't do it, I feel bad, yesterday I didn't meditate, just to know what it feels, and I felt bad, I felt the changes since the very first day, I wanted to run faster, was more irritable with other's car drivers.
I know that everything with excess is not good, but our bodies and nervous systems are diferent from each other, how would I know if my nervous system is like a racing car that needs some speed ??
Our Bodies are like cars, I mean it can be terrible to put a Corvette's car to road to one mile per hour, Corvettes or Jaguar's cars were made to run, I mean to speed.
I don't think that our nervous systems were all made to work in the same way, maybe mine is different, I mean I have swam for up to 2 hours without stopping one minute, racing with others, and the worst was that my body begged me for more time, but I know when I'm speeding to much, I don't exceed my capacity as it would brings me death. I think that each one of us knows the "point" where one has to stop.
What I am trying to say is that maybe my nervous system is not like others, and needs more time.
My "car" is used to long runs (meditation) and if I don't do it, I feel bad, that's when irritation comes, but even if it comes I can control it, thinking that its a side-effect.
One cannot put a fat people to eat one banana per day, to low weight, cause that can kill the person, but one can put the person to low the meals little by little, otherwise the body would have a terrible impact. Its the same in meditation, I cannot low to 20 minutes, its not that I don't want, "I can't", my body or nervous system wont let me do it.
I don't understand why the rules here are so inflexible, not all people are the same. I know that we can do whatever we want, and that at the end we are gonna feel it, and that the rules were made with the best intentions, I know perfectly this, but also I know that not all our nervous systems are alike, maybe mine is different. Its like being left handed and force this person to write with the right hand, (my case) maybe my nervous system is already damaged by this. Now I write with my right hand, my writings are like scribbles (since child) but it was the "rule" to write with the right hand, no matter if people can destroy others by doing so.
you quoted this:
if you want spiritual evolution then you have to take the safe way, a structured way.
My parents thought the same as you when they forced me to write with the right hand, not caring if they destroyed not only my nervous system, but my motor system (of the body) not mattering that my only wish was to be death (when child) cause I was not like the others, I was left handed, and for them that was from the devil, and was not correct, or spiritual, and forced me with punishments or beatings to write with the right (spiritual) hand.
But at the end I could write with the right hand, not mattering if I was destroyed by the inside. I could, and that was the important thing, to accomplish the "rule", maybe that's why I hate rules.
My nervous system got used to terrible impacts, as my little right hand trembled for many months, cause I couldn't grasp the pencil, with the right hand, but at the end I did it.
The Kundalini energy has being a blessing to my body and to my nervous system, I honoured Shakti when I began to feel the ecstasies, and began to forgive all the damages made upon my body.
Its not easy to Shakti to straighten a left handed person forced to be right handed, maybe that's why I need more time, I love the K energy, I harm no one in doing so, you cannot tell me that I wont reach paradise,(or the spiritual path) cause I don't stick to 20 minutes, I have suffered a lot because of this kind of thinking.
There are chairs for left handed people, they have different nervous system, or works different, God made us different, we are not the black ducks, we are just different, our brains works in different ways, my hand still trembles when I write, not because of fear, but because my brain and my nervous system were brutally damaged and impacted since I was a little child, as I was forced to write with the right hand.
Namaste
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
i'm sorry my friend if i am going to be too obvious and clear of what will come out of me, bcz i'm saying it for your own good.
the way you're going at it is simply chaotic, you wont have no good results by overloading all the time.
you will have a damaged nervous system that needs a lot of care and no running in the world will take the overload symptoms off when the ... hits the fan.
sorry to be saying this but you need to put some order into your life and follow a specific system for spiritual practice one which is safe like yogani's ayp or which ever system you find most suited for you.
plus once the 1st enhancement is added, there's no need to practice iam mantra alone it's included in the enhancement.
if you want spiritual evolution then you have to take the safe way, a structured way.
you need to self pace it's easier then you think some people do cut off all practices at once sometimes just take hold of yourself and restart again step by step.
it doesn't matter how long we sit in meditation, what matters is that we give our nervous system the necessary time and tools to purify itself otherwise if we step over the edge and overload then we are holding back our spiritual evolution plus hurting ourselves and instead of going to the world bcz of our daily practices we would go irritated and not feeling so well...
i hope my words weren't too hard, i meant them in good intention.
namaste my friend,
Ananda
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2008 : 03:59:19 AM
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Katrine,
I have self-paced a lot, but my nervous system maybe requires more time to purify all blockages.
My nervous system have being brutally impacted since child, when my parents forced me to write with the right hand, I don't think it can exist a worst damage to a child or to a person that is left handed to be forced to be right handed. My nervous system is used to strong impacts, maybe thats why the ufos have let themselves be seen for me, from a very near range.
I have reached the silence states, but rather prefer the ecstatic ones. Absoption, stillness, and silence are the same, I have been years in those states,(in Jhanas) but I like or am used to strong things.
I've been under constant overload since childhood, my nervous system is used to that.
I have tried to meditate only for 20 minutes, but I feel bad, cause I cannot reach the point of ecstasy, or stillness, or silence, I mean I do 10 minutes of pranayama, then other 10 minutes of chanting mantras as the Gayatri (in japa) this is like food to my nervous system, it gets immediately calmed down, with all these are the 20 minutes, then I begin with the silence, or stillness. Also I have tried to meditate for only 20 minutes and then wanted to get out of the meditation, but my body begins to harden or get stiff, and heavy, and I cannot move, as if the energy wanted me there for more time, its very strange. I just let myself flow with the energy.
My body needs more time, I don't know why.
By the way, why 20 minutes ??
My parents already forced me to stick to their "rules", and they destroyed my nervous system in a sense (forbidding me to be left-handed) They forgot that I was different, maybe they didn't care, they just wanted me to follow the rules as the others.
God made us different, he also made different religions, different colors and beliefs, even systems, to suit each one of us, as different chords of a guitar.
I have changed almost everything, less the chanting and the time, this is hard for me, maybe it will take more time to stick to it.
Maybe I am overloaded, but maybe not, maybe Shakti is making the cleanse, a real one, just put on my shoes, imagine that you are left handed, and forced since child to write with the right hand, with your little hand trembling for many months, and your writings like scribblings all the time, and all your friends always laughing at you, and being punished by the teachers all the time cause "you write so ugly", then you know that all your brain has been changed, then you grow up, and you still write like a kid, cause your right hand was not made to do the writings, and no one belives that you are writing that, cause that is the write of a child, and you cannot do anything, or say anything just stay in silence, and your left hand doesn't work anymore, cause its too late and it wont work anymore. Just Imagine the big impact on your nervous system if you were I.
That is the why I need more time to calm down my nervous system.
Namaste
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Hi
I strongly advise you to self-pace too, Neli. Ananda is not saying what he is to be right - he says it because his experience has shown him that it is so.
As for myself - I have had a lot of ecstatic conductivity over the past 4 years, and in the case of deep meditation less meditation gave more profound results. Balance is the key. When there is balance between sitting practises and the life we lead in between practises....then results happen. Steady we progress on this road. Like the tortoise we carry our home with us wherever we go. All along there is progress. All along we are That.
In other words.....with ...i am....20 min for just the meditation is enough. Twice a day. Don't forget that the impact on the nervous system continues through the whole day and night...whether we are aware of it or not.
If you cannot calm down in 20 min....then you could start your session with exercise....and then simply allow time for yourself to get used to "nothing is happening if I sit only for 20 min". Something is happening still.
But the most important thing as far as my experience goes when it comes to overload....is the fact that when the energy is raging....it becomes much more difficult to acces the inner silence. And that is why we sit in the first place.....to dip ourselves in the ocean of silence. Not to bathe in ecstacy.
Your difficulty with "not calming down during the first 20 min".....is to me itself a sign of constant overload.
Reduce to 20 min anyhow.....and give it time.....what happens if you sit just for 20 min? Other than the feeling of not calming down....is anything else happening if you sit for only 20 min?
Hope you will consider doing AYP the way it is suggested. At least for a while...until you can judge for yourself. And remember - it is going to feel "strange"..."off"....."wrong"......"as if it isn't working".......But stick with it until this fase passes. And then you can judge.
I wish you all the best.
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2008 : 1:35:57 PM
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quote:
The simple answer is that if we overdo, we can get to a degree of discomfort with symptoms that we can't practice anymore for a time, maybe a long time if symptoms become severe. It takes time to recover from excesses. That is why I say overdoing can delay our progress, and that less can be more in spiritual practice. I think many have had this experience to one degree or other. It is part of the learning curve we climb to develop our skill in self-pacing.
It is the same with anything, and that is what is behind the saying that we can have too much of a good thing. It never happened to you?
The guru is in you.
Hi Yogani,
Actually I don't think there is a simple answer simply because one does not always know if they are overdoing until it's too late.When I first practiced TM in the mid 70's I experienced bliss and non attachment to the world 24 hrs a day from the very first meditation.After 2 weeks I fell into a deep cleansing for several weeks.So yes it has happened to me.
I was only sticking to the recommended amount of practice with no enhancements so there is no rule that covers all.
Having said that it depends on your constitution and bhakti.Some give up very easily and very few finish the journey as they don't have the staying power.
Now you say self pace and yet in the samadhi book you tell others that it is not necessary to follow the limbs but they follow the meditation automatically. I agree they follow partly, but this in my opinion is pandering to the masses to encourage them to keep on with their practices. Nothing wrong with that but then you are saying self pace.Just relying on the practices will overload you say so why not moderate in others ways to.IMHO I don't believe you can have one without the other and don't believe you will have a wonderful life without the yamas and niyamas.If we don't have moral codes to live to then we have anarchy.DM is useless without peace unless one is doing it for selfish purpose and not trying to make the world a better place for all.Just my thoughts.
L&L
Dave |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2008 : 2:15:02 PM
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quote:
Just Imagine the big impact on your nervous system if you were I.
Yes, Neli. I am very sorry you were forced like that. To have to go through those consequences is very hard for a child. I am so glad you made it to where you are now. Good for you
quote:
By the way, why 20 minutes ??
Yogani speaks from not only his own experience, but that of many, many generations of Yogic experience. Many, many sources. Some can sit more, some less. But the point is - the practise works best if it is balanced and structured.
Your nervous system has been through so much pressure....the Kundalini is forcing its way....it is like this....it wants to reach Shiva, right? That is why it wants you to sit more than what is good for you. The Kundalini is a force.... it doesn't have it in itself to care about the nervous system. You have to take care of it....you have to be a parent to yourself this way. Because if your system gets damaged under the strain, you will harm the very vehicle that will take you to the conscious experience of divine love. The ecstacy can be so strong, I understand why you like it better than the silence. But it is the silence that is the source of it all. And it is it that is Love
I wish you a gentle, gentle love - one that will make up for those years of hardship. One that is considerate of you, Neli.
AYP is in my experience a practise that makes this possible. It considers both the practitioner, the practise and the outcome. This way there is balance both vertically and horisontally.
There is really not much more I can say. Just please remember that noone here is forcing you to do anything. We are just concerned about you - we care - that's all.
Best of luck
And practise wisely
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2008 : 2:34:50 PM
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Hi Riptiz:
Having energy excesses with normal durations of practice is one thing, and having them by greatly exceeding suggested durations of practice is something else. The first may not be so obvious (requiring gradual fine-tuning in practices), but the other of blatant overdoing is obvious and should be pretty clear to anyone who is paying attention. Both will require self-pacing, and if that is ignored in either case, it can be a tough slog.
The idea that we can "blast through" rough periods by maintaining or increasing practice durations is not valid, and this has been demonstrated time and time again. That is mainly what should be warned about here, because it is not a viable long term approach. Many have fallen off the path of practices for extended periods due to not understanding this. The rise of prudent self-pacing among more and more spiritual practitioners promises to greatly reduce the dropout rate.
As for "pandering to the masses," I had not thought of it quite like that before. The point of view here is that if people have useful information that can help them unfold their divine possibilities, they will be more likely to do something about it. We as a species can no longer afford to do this in small ways ... favoring the few over the many, placing conduct barriers in front of everyone else. That is just teachers dodging their responsibility to provide effective spiritual practices that can be widely utilized. The days of esoteric teaching are coming to an end. It is time for all of humanity to move on, with many more "oars in the water" than in the past...
This does not mean we are throwing laws against harmful conduct out the window. Of course, not. But it is a fact that there are many in prison who can benefit from spiritual practices as much as anyone. Maybe more. Historically, it is well known that "bad conduct" has often been a prerequisite for real spiritual practice and progress.
We learn and grow by our mistakes (and by studying the mistakes of others), not by blindly towing someone else's line.
Right, Neli? 
Neli, I think the only reason you are being given some strong advice is because you have mentioned some roughness in daily activity. Maybe you did not have this before doing AYP methods, and that might be because your practices before have not gone as deep. Who knows? We can only go by our experience in daily life and the cause and effect related to our practices. That is all that is being pointed out.
No one will tell you exactly what you must do with your practice. That is your choice. But if things are overloading, or whatever concerns there might be in daily activity, there are some procedures related to our practices that are known to help.
On the other hand, if you are mixing a batch of practices from different sources and doing them all more than is recommended, then it is your own research. We are interested in that here too, but you should be advised that there are risks. Your choice. Please keep us posted.
I would also remind you that in the natural scheme of things stillness comes first and ecstatic energy comes second. With a limitation on stillness, energy will be limited too, though we might tend to think otherwise with so many fireworks being stimulated in our nervous system by our focus on doing that. It is normal to get attached to this sort of thing. It is a stage in our development, and is not the end game. The best kind of ecstatic fireworks are the ones rooted in abiding inner silence -- stillness in action! Then we are free.
The guru is in you.
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2008 : 9:08:26 PM
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Katrine,
Thanks for your understanding.
I understand that the practice has to be balanced and structured.
What I had understand is that Shakti's energy has its own intelligence, I mean she "knows" what to do or where to go, I had felt this all the time. I don't think its just an energy without intelligence capable of destroying all the nervous system. When I feel Shakti I feel immediately Love, without reaching the silence point.
Lately I have felt more Shiva's energy moving at the crown area and pouring down his nectar, I can feel it on my face, and sometimes it goes inside the brain and the spine, I think they met at different places, but the one I feel more is the Ajna point. Then they goes up and down, balancing or cleansing the nadis, reaching also the astral level, working there, I can feel it above my head, opening its own path, producing in me strong ecstasies.
I don't feel this energy can be a destructive one, maybe it was not understood before by Gopi and others, of course at the beginning one can feel many strange things, some people gets panick attacks, like my sister, and hated the energy, but I always used love, and surrender, and the energy always has been so gentle with me.
I have learned to surrender since time ago, cause I know that "she knows" what to do. I have learned to let her work by herself, at her own pace, maybe I'm wrong, but for me Shakti is a sacred energy, I have also learned this in many groups or forums. I don't understand why she is depicted here like a tiger capable of devouring everything at her pass. I don't believe this, I have never felt that, not even at the beginning. My sister got the panick attack cause she was already afraid of what she had read in other places.
Shakti is not a tiger, she is pure love, I have felt only love and blissfulness since the very minute she began to climb up from my spine or from my feet.
Thanks for your gentle love and your good wishes, I really enjoy Shakti, and have enjoyed her since the very first day.
Have a very good day.
My best wishes for you.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
quote:
Just Imagine the big impact on your nervous system if you were I.
Yes, Neli. I am very sorry you were forced like that. To have to go through those consequences is very hard for a child. I am so glad you made it to where you are now. Good for you
quote:
By the way, why 20 minutes ??
Yogani speaks from not only his own experience, but that of many, many generations of Yogic experience. Many, many sources. Some can sit more, some less. But the point is - the practise works best if it is balanced and structured.
Your nervous system has been through so much pressure....the Kundalini is forcing its way....it is like this....it wants to reach Shiva, right? That is why it wants you to sit more than what is good for you. The Kundalini is a force.... it doesn't have it in itself to care about the nervous system. You have to take care of it....you have to be a parent to yourself this way. Because if your system gets damaged under the strain, you will harm the very vehicle that will take you to the conscious experience of divine love. The ecstacy can be so strong, I understand why you like it better than the silence. But it is the silence that is the source of it all. And it is it that is Love
I wish you a gentle, gentle love - one that will make up for those years of hardship. One that is considerate of you, Neli.
AYP is in my experience a practise that makes this possible. It considers both the practitioner, the practise and the outcome. This way there is balance both vertically and horisontally.
There is really not much more I can say. Just please remember that noone here is forcing you to do anything. We are just concerned about you - we care - that's all.
Best of luck
And practise wisely
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2008 : 02:32:59 AM
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Hi Yogani,
My practices before AYP were deeper than now. I was rougher before than now, but I don't know if it was because of an overloading or because of external circumstances.
This is the point where I don't know if I am overloaded or the external circumstances are acting upon me.
I don't practice anymore Jhanas, or Kunlun, or Siddha Yoga, or studying mediums. I'm a ufo researcher, but that is not related to Yoga practices. The Gayatri mantra is essential for me, but I do it in Japa, and it has helped me a lot. I don't think it is harmful. Besides you haven't post anything about it(this mantra).
There is always a risk in everything, even in ufos, I think ufos are more risky than the overloading symptoms. I think our bodies know the point where one has to stop, if we just learn to listen to our inner selves.
You are right, stillness comes first, and ecstasy in second place. I learned stillness years ago in Jhanas, (I have been there) ecstasies came later, and were stronger with Shakti's power.
I know that the fireworks are just a stage in our path, I had it in Jhanas too, and were very attached with the nimittas, but not anymore. You are very right, is not the end, its just part of the path. But I'm not rushing to reach the end, I enjoy every stage of a path.
Maybe I have to learn more about "stillness in action", I understand this as a prolonged ecstatic state. This reminds me the state of the Shamans, they are always in ecstasy and in action at the same time, bieng aware of everything, and unattached to the world.
I didn't understand your quote:
"not by blindly towing someone else's line."
Sometimes I use other's quotations, like yours "the guru is in you" or in me, or in anyone. I use other's quotations as well, like "the only rule is "there's no rules" (in a sense), is it that bad to use someone else's lines ? If I use them is because I like them very much. They have a strong meaning inside.
Thanks a lot for your reply !
Namaste
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
We learn and grow by our mistakes (and by studying the mistakes of others), not by blindly towing someone else's line.
Right, Neli?
Neli, I think the only reason you are being given some strong advice is because you have mentioned some roughness in daily activity. Maybe you did not have this before doing AYP methods, and that might be because your practices before have not gone as deep. Who knows? We can only go by our experience in daily life and the cause and effect related to our practices. That is all that is being pointed out.
No one will tell you exactly what you must do with your practice. That is your choice. But if things are overloading, or whatever concerns there might be in daily activity, there are some procedures related to our practices that are known to help.
On the other hand, if you are mixing a batch of practices from different sources and doing them all more than is recommended, then it is your own research. We are interested in that here too, but you should be advised that there are risks. Your choice. Please keep us posted.
I would also remind you that in the natural scheme of things stillness comes first and ecstatic energy comes second. With a limitation on stillness, energy will be limited too, though we might tend to think otherwise with so many fireworks being stimulated in our nervous system by our focus on doing that. It is normal to get attached to this sort of thing. It is a stage in our development, and is not the end game. The best kind of ecstatic fireworks are the ones rooted in abiding inner silence -- stillness in action! Then we are free.
The guru is in you.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2008 : 10:52:38 AM
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namaste neli, i just read the 1st reply you made toward me will read the others when i'm done answering and i'm very sorry about your childhood plus about the misunderstanding we seem to have.
cz it was never my intention to force any thinking or methodology on you, it was just smthg which i've been through and i liked to share the good outcome of my experience with you nothing more nothing less.
plus what i said has nothing to do with paradise i couldn't care less about that it was about your safety.
cz overloading symptoms lead to chaotic endings sometime and i wouldn't like to see that happening to you.
anyways you are your own adviser and to each his sailing boat in the end.
plus i didn't know that your sitting practice was so addictive otherwise i would've told to quieted down little by little and not go cold turkey.
tc my friend and wish you all the best on your path, after reading the other posts if anything should be added by me then will do.
kindest regards,
Ananda |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2008 : 11:29:37 AM
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Hi Neli:
"Towing someone else's line" means living by someone else's rules instead of our own natural inclinations. I was attempting to tie in the yama/niyama discussion with Riptiz with your situation of forced conduct in your youth.
No one should be forced to "tow someone else's line," not in yoga, and not in life. Of course, this challenges traditional yogic teachings, which insist on certain kinds of conduct before powerful practices are given. Times have changed, and so must the application of yoga methods. Nowadays, deep practices bring good conduct much more-so than the other way around. Many practitioners have experienced this in life, so it is not a philosophical speculation.
As I have said in the past, "Experience in daily life is the ultimate measure of our practice." Not anyone's pronouncements about it, or even the scriptures themselves. And experiences inside practices are not the measure of progress either. It is in how our normal everyday life is affected. This is how we know if our practices are doing their job.
That is what we want -- experience-based practice. Neli, your experiences are very good inside practices, and hopefully as good outside practices. That is the acid test. Your living shakti is your ishta, your chosen ideal. This is very good. As discussed in the Bhakti and Karma Yoga book, our ishta will refine over time as we become more purified and more in blissful stillness. Then every movement in life will be a very refined ecstasy -- stillness in action. All of life becomes an extension of our ever-refining ishta.
Surely you know that for many people, kundalini brings strong symptoms of purification and opening, and that if there is no regulation of practices, there can be serious problems. Loving surrender to that process is very good, and will help a lot. But if one is getting ill, then the causes in practice (and in life) should be regulated for a smoother unfoldment. It is common sense, yes?
Your case may not need regulation so much, which is wonderful, but we can't forget about everyone else. It is natural to measure everyone else by our own experience. It is actually a common failing among advanced teachers -- telling others that there is no need to go through the process, and to just jump to the end right now. This disconnect between advanced practitioners and others is very common, and is to be guarded against, for it can lead to a fracturing of the path for many. So, we tell others from where we have come, how we have gotten here, and what systematic methods can be applied to help bring everyone along. That is all we are doing here in AYP.
It seems the reason we got into this discussion is because you felt the I AM mantra was not working energetically. As several have said, the I AM mantra is not for an energetic experience. It is for cultivating abiding inner silence. So, nothing happening is not nothing happening in deep meditation. It is everything happening.
The other part of this discussion on symptoms happened I think because you mentioned roughness in activity. The first thing we say in AYP when that is going on is, "Rest before getting up from practices to smooth the transition back into activity." And second we say, "Self-pace your practices." Maybe the advice came after the symptom passed, so you felt a bit put upon. We all know by now how enthusiastic you are about your practices. Bravo for that!
All intentions are good here, and all are working from where they are. We are not so different. All are on the same road, in slightly different places. It is still one road -- the road of human spiritual transformation.
The guru is in you.
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 01:12:19 AM
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Ananda,
Maybe I was very sensitive, indeed. I know that you have the best intentions when giving your advices.
I'm sorry if I overreacted, I don't know why I immediately went to my childhood, and had to remember what I hate to remember, I think Shakti or maybe Kali, is wanting to erase that chapter of my life.
I mentioned paradise, as something spiritual, of course a misconception of the word, cause paradise has nothing to do with the spiritual path, I don't know why I jumped back to my childhood, maybe its a quick reaction of my mind.
Yes my practices are so addictive but have lessened a lot.
Hope Kali will erase this chapter of my life, softly and with love, but I want her to erase it all.
Thanks for sharing advices with me. And sorry for my overreaction.
kindest regards.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
namaste neli, i just read the 1st reply you made toward me will read the others when i'm done answering and i'm very sorry about your childhood plus about the misunderstanding we seem to have.
cz it was never my intention to force any thinking or methodology on you, it was just smthg which i've been through and i liked to share the good outcome of my experience with you nothing more nothing less.
plus what i said has nothing to do with paradise i couldn't care less about that it was about your safety.
cz overloading symptoms lead to chaotic endings sometime and i wouldn't like to see that happening to you.
anyways you are your own adviser and to each his sailing boat in the end.
plus i didn't know that your sitting practice was so addictive otherwise i would've told to quieted down little by little and not go cold turkey.
tc my friend and wish you all the best on your path, after reading the other posts if anything should be added by me then will do.
kindest regards,
Ananda
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 02:44:09 AM
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Hi Yogani,
Thanks a lot for your reply and for clarifying the misunderstandings.
You are very right, we have to follow our natural inclinations, I have felt this, with the Japa chanting, something in my inner self tells me that I have to chant that (Gayatri) mantra. I have felt also that I need to put my feet on the floor, cause I feel that the energy flows better, but also I do the practice in the yogui form.
You are very right, I have been in some other K sites, and in noone tells about the daily life effects of the K energy, this is the only site that mentions the daily life effects, and the connection with the Kundalini and this is very important.
Thanks to that, I know if I'am doing well or wrong, or overloaded, or something else.
It's our reactions to circumstances that matters.
I have improved a lot, since I'm here, I feel more strong, more calmed down, and more unattached to the human's erraticals behaviours.
I have a very strong ishta, but maybe not so purified, but I am in the process of purification.
I have felt this stillness in action, time ago, after the "call" of the Shamans, every movement was ecstatic for me. I can still feel it, but not like before, I think I'm just getting a kind of retrieval of myself.
I have read other experiences of the K awakening or openings, like that of Gopi. I have also learned to surrender to the energy, many groups tells that this is the "key" word. I have never felt bad, maybe stomach troubles but that was time ago.
You are right, for months I couldn't felt anything with the I am mantra, but now I can feel the ecstatic conductivity of the energy, not only in my body, but in my mind, its very subtle, but now I can feel the ecstasy even if I am walking on the street, or driving a car, or whatever. I have compared other mantras like "shrim" or Klim, but they are more rough, and the I am is very subtle, almost unnoticed, till one catch it up, then we follow it, and ecstasy begins to flow up, constantly, soft, but constantly.
You are right I sometimes feel a kind of hyperactivity, but I think it's because I have failed to rest after the practice, I mean after that, I want to jump, not to rest, cause I am invigorated by the energy and I love it ! but I have to do this, at least 5 minutes, that for me are like 5 hours.
I don't know if people understands what it means to be in love with the energy (Shakti) I really love this path, that's why I left everything (less the ufos) maybe my strong ishta doesn't let in the bad symptoms, only the hyperactivity, that in extreme cases but almost never brought me roughness, but this happens mostly when I can not do my practice.
Best Wishes.
Namaste
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Hi Neli:
"Towing someone else's line" means living by someone else's rules instead of our own natural inclinations. I was attempting to tie in the yama/niyama discussion with Riptiz with your situation of forced conduct in your youth.
No one should be forced to "tow someone else's line," not in yoga, and not in life. Of course, this challenges traditional yogic teachings, which insist on certain kinds of conduct before powerful practices are given. Times have changed, and so must the application of yoga methods. Nowadays, deep practices bring good conduct much more-so than the other way around. Many practitioners have experienced this in life, so it is not a philosophical speculation.
As I have said in the past, "Experience in daily life is the ultimate measure of our practice." Not anyone's pronouncements about it, or even the scriptures themselves. And experiences inside practices are not the measure of progress either. It is in how our normal everyday life is affected. This is how we know if our practices are doing their job.
That is what we want -- experience-based practice. Neli, your experiences are very good inside practices, and hopefully as good outside practices. That is the acid test. Your living shakti is your ishta, your chosen ideal. This is very good. As discussed in the Bhakti and Karma Yoga book, our ishta will refine over time as we become more purified and more in blissful stillness. Then every movement in life will be a very refined ecstasy -- stillness in action. All of life becomes an extension of our ever-refining ishta.
Surely you know that for many people, kundalini brings strong symptoms of purification and opening, and that if there is no regulation of practices, there can be serious problems. Loving surrender to that process is very good, and will help a lot. But if one is getting ill, then the causes in practice (and in life) should be regulated for a smoother unfoldment. It is common sense, yes?
Your case may not need regulation so much, which is wonderful, but we can't forget about everyone else. It is natural to measure everyone else by our own experience. It is actually a common failing among advanced teachers -- telling others that there is no need to go through the process, and to just jump to the end right now. This disconnect between advanced practitioners and others is very common, and is to be guarded against, for it can lead to a fracturing of the path for many. So, we tell others from where we have come, how we have gotten here, and what systematic methods can be applied to help bring everyone along. That is all we are doing here in AYP.
It seems the reason we got into this discussion is because you felt the I AM mantra was not working energetically. As several have said, the I AM mantra is not for an energetic experience. It is for cultivating abiding inner silence. So, nothing happening is not nothing happening in deep meditation. It is everything happening.
The other part of this discussion on symptoms happened I think because you mentioned roughness in activity. The first thing we say in AYP when that is going on is, "Rest before getting up from practices to smooth the transition back into activity." And second we say, "Self-pace your practices." Maybe the advice came after the symptom passed, so you felt a bit put upon. We all know by now how enthusiastic you are about your practices. Bravo for that!
All intentions are good here, and all are working from where they are. We are not so different. All are on the same road, in slightly different places. It is still one road -- the road of human spiritual transformation.
The guru is in you.
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I AM mantra
