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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 2:22:39 PM
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In the Mahayana school, the historical Guatama Buddha is an emanation body of another Buddha.
Anyway, you are too focused on Gautama Buddha....Mahayana typically includes a much broader focus.
I agree with almost everything you said, but obtaining the light body IS THE ONLY WAY TO HELP OTHER BEINGS TO A SIGNIFICANT EXTENT
This is the whole point of Vajrayana, Dzogchen, Thogal and Mahayana in general. |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 2:35:04 PM
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Also you view the light body as something to be obtained, when you do not understand that the physical flesh body is the one we have obtained through karma. Our real nature is the light body i.e. the body when all the mahabhuta are in their natural state.
Noone obtains the light body technically. They just lose the physical
So your thinking is quite upside down. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 4:54:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson
Also you view the light body as something to be obtained, when you do not understand that the physical flesh body is the one we have obtained through karma. Our real nature is the light body i.e. the body when all the mahabhuta are in their natural state.
Noone obtains the light body technically. They just lose the physical
So your thinking is quite upside down.
Hi Alwayson,
I do understand you. What's going on is that I don't agree with Mahayana or Vajrayana. I, myself, the nobody, discerns for myself, that in asserting that the Buddha is an emanation of another Buddha, the doctrine of no-self, interdependent origination and impermanence is contradicted. The concept of nirvana and no-rebirth is negated. I, the nobody, discern for my own practice, that this negation leads to superstition. Unfortunately for me, I don't see Mahayana or Vajrayana as advancements, but as the piling on of compound sediments onto a teaching that was already pristine. So you think I am upside down, I think you are backwards.
That notwithstanding, we are all buddhas, and you are my teacher too. If the result of meditation on the light-body is a means to resolve karma, then nirvana will arrive for you. Highest Yoga Tantra is the great laboratory of samadhi states. What excellent meditation scientists the Tibetans are!
I utilize singing bowls, deep voice mantra vocalization (OM AH HUNG) and I listen to the Gyuto hymns all day long. These are tools I use to enter deep samadhi swiftly.
Ahhh...
TMS |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2008 : 4:45:37 PM
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Om Ah Hum is indeed supposed to be the most powerful mantra |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2008 : 7:33:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson
Om Ah Hum is indeed supposed to be the most powerful mantra
The most powerful tantric mantra is HOONG. |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 03:46:30 AM
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And the most powerful Kundalini mantra is and has been, the Gayatri, as far as I know.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
quote:
Originally posted by alwayson
Om Ah Hum is indeed supposed to be the most powerful mantra
The most powerful tantric mantra is HOONG.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 07:06:08 AM
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A mantra is a tool, just as our twice daily practices.
Some tools work better than others, depending on circumstances and the person using them, just like a mechanic's tool or an office tool.
One of the reasons this forum is growing so fast is that the Iam mantra, and twice daily practices,
works so well for so many people around the world.
But even though we have found Yogani's discoveries to be powerful for people all over the world, let's not forget that the power is in us, not in the tools we use.
It is a common error to take this concept too far and say we don't need any tools then, but that is misunderstanding the concept. Some ascetic yogis supposedly live as a hermit, in the cold, naked, on little food. But that won't work for most people either.
When we use the tools that work for us personally we align ourselves with a higher power that shows us the right tools to use at the right time.
Until we feel that guidance from a higher power, it is most efficient to try a tool that is effective for lots of other people, and find if it works for you.
And just like you would a mechanic's or office tool, make sure you are using it the same way everyone else is to give it a fair chance. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 09:36:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by neli
And the most powerful Kundalini mantra is and has been, the Gayatri, as far as I know.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
quote:
Originally posted by alwayson
Om Ah Hum is indeed supposed to be the most powerful mantra
The most powerful tantric mantra is HOONG.
Perhaps. My experience with gayatri mantra is more ceremonial so that wouldn't work for me. I do love it. I goes around in my head all the time. |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 5:40:14 PM
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| Anyway there does seem to be a relationship between AYP's "the spirtual star" and thogal (which only becomes evident if you read about the crystal light channels in the book I posted). |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2008 : 03:18:38 AM
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I also do love the gayatri mantra, and I use it only at the beginning of my meditation, then I use the Shree Om I am, for me this works very well, I can feel immediately the movement of Shakti's energy, like a serpent, rising up to the crown, and then to the space. Maybe each mantra works different in each one of us.
Neli
quote]Originally posted by themysticseeker
quote:
Originally posted by neli
And the most powerful Kundalini mantra is and has been, the Gayatri, as far as I know.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
quote:
Originally posted by alwayson
Om Ah Hum is indeed supposed to be the most powerful mantra
The most powerful tantric mantra is HOONG.
Perhaps. My experience with gayatri mantra is more ceremonial so that wouldn't work for me. I do love it. I goes around in my head all the time.
[/quote] |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2008 : 1:52:08 PM
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Elaborating on my last comment, Thogal has to do with certain crystal light channels such as the infamous "kati" channel. This kati channel is the basis for the rainbows being seen.
It seems very clear to me the spirtual star of Hindu yoga is the same "crystal" channel.
The similarities continue. Both thogal and the star both may require pressure on the eyes and breath retention to get going.
Both thogal and the star are pinnacles of Buddist and Hindu yogas respectively. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2008 : 9:41:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson
Elaborating on my last comment, Thogal has to do with certain crystal light channels such as the infamous "kati" channel. This kati channel is the basis for the rainbows being seen.
It seems very clear to me the spirtual star of Hindu yoga is the same "crystal" channel.
The similarities continue. Both thogal and the star both may require pressure on the eyes and breath retention to get going.
Both thogal and the star are pinnacles of Buddist and Hindu yogas respectively.
It seems to me that an object of awareness cannot be a a pinnacle of yoga.
WE ARE THE COSMOS!
Ahh...
TMS |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2008 : 11:44:46 PM
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All the Buddist tantras talk about people who have realized emptiness/awareness/natural state, yet remain trapped in samsara.
Awareness is not enough |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2008 : 11:36:35 AM
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I said earlier that sungazing is part of thogal practice.
I should really clarify.
You do not stare into the sun. Ever.
You squint into the RAYS of the sun or moon or even a candle.
Also it is said you should have some shade overhead, so you do not overheat. |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2008 : 01:58:06 AM
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Appareently correct view is also important for thogal.
If anyone practices thogal, they must be open to the view of dependent arising, otherwise you will not obtain the rainbow body.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C...mutp%C4%81da
This does NOT mean that you need to have personal direct experience with emptiness, because such a thing occurs ony after the third vision of thogal.
You merely have to be aware of the teaching, and stop grasping for an absolute like Brahman. |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2009 : 10:03:52 PM
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Discussing further dependent origination.....
The view to obtain Buddhahood is free from all extremes such as existence and non-existence. But I am not suggesting there is a reality beyond existence and non-existence either, like the Hindu concept Brahman.
There is NO reality. There is NO ultimate.
The "ultimate" is awakening.....that is all.
And in accordance with the view of dependent origination, Buddhahood must be CAUSED. And it must be YOU that causes it. Even empowerments recieved from Tibetan Lamas function only within the view of dependent origination.
Hindus when they lose that sense of "I" and gain omniscience in deep kundalini type of meditation, think they are merging with God.
When in reality, they are just experiencing the deeper aspects of their own mindstream. They are not "linking up" to anything.
This understanding is crucial if anyone wants to obtain the rainbow body. |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2009 : 10:46:07 PM
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I am NOT denying God-like knowledge that comes when one experiences the clarity of the mindstream.
Hindus mistake that omniscience comes from "linking up" to something external. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2009 : 6:30:51 PM
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Going out on a limb: Enlightenment is the post-awakening experience of tranquility accompanied by innate and intuitive perfect wisdom exemplified in one's daily life. That is the test of "is s/he enlightened?"
Love,
TMS |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2009 : 7:43:59 PM
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actually it is preferable to use the term awakening (bodhi) to "enlightenment". Just drop the term enlightenment from your vocabulary.
There are different levels of bodhi associated with the different bhumis.
The last bodhi is perfect and final, and you obtain rainbow body.
Now thogal practice, takes you directly to the last bhumi. That is why thogal means "leapover". It is a shortcut.
But, the thogal practice has some stages in itself, so it becomes kind of wierd. |
Edited by - alwayson on Jan 07 2009 7:56:34 PM |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2009 : 10:19:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson
actually it is preferable to use the term awakening (bodhi) to "enlightenment". Just drop the term enlightenment from your vocabulary.
There are different levels of bodhi associated with the different bhumis.
The last bodhi is perfect and final, and you obtain rainbow body.
Now thogal practice, takes you directly to the last bhumi. That is why thogal means "leapover". It is a shortcut.
But, the thogal practice has some stages in itself, so it becomes kind of wierd.
Bodhi = awakening: Copy that.
The practices you refer to are in the Dzogchen lineage. This practice doesn't exist in Mahamudra. These two practices are very similar, and Mahamudra (which is of direct Indian Tantric origin) has a practice of meditating on space, observing all things as nondual, and the lama will "point out the dharmakaya." My understanding that Mahamudra and Dzogchen are very analogous. |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2009 : 12:17:26 AM
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Right,
Thogal is part of Dzogchen.
But the bhumis are associated more with Mahamudra.
I was sort of comparing the two.
See, thogal is interesting, because it shortcuts you to the last bhumi, but it has its own stages. But these stages are not called bhumis.
How much do you know of Mahamudra completion stage? |
Edited by - alwayson on Jan 08 2009 01:44:50 AM |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2009 : 2:39:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson
Right,
Thogal is part of Dzogchen.
But the bhumis are associated more with Mahamudra.
I was sort of comparing the two.
See, thogal is interesting, because it shortcuts you to the last bhumi, but it has its own stages. But these stages are not called bhumis.
How much do you know of Mahamudra completion stage?
Very little yet. I'm just getting into it. What I know is that the Six Yogas of Naropa are a vehicle to the Mahamudra completion stage. It's all about a direct experience of emptiness using the least obscured wind and mind at the heart chakra. |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2009 : 2:55:47 PM
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Dzogchen gives up the pretense that the mind is mounted on a wind.
Dzogchen says the mind IS that wind. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2009 : 10:51:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson
Dzogchen gives up the pretense that the mind is mounted on a wind.
Dzogchen says the mind IS that wind.
The wind is not a mind, because a mind is a wind apprehending an object of perception. If the wind does not apprehend an object of perception it is an empty awareness. This is important, because the wind is just moving energy. There is no mind.
In any event, you can say the wind is the mind if it will allow you to follow into your heart.
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Edited by - themysticseeker on Jan 08 2009 11:06:19 PM |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2009 : 11:54:56 PM
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In Dzogchen, mind is literally that wind. Take it or leave it.
I am 100% sure on this. |
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May I introduce the highest Buddhist practice?
