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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 07:41:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by seekeroftruth
Of course, there is no magic bullet when it comes to spirituality stuff.
And, I'm definitely way too impatient when it comes to spirituality. 
Also, it's good to be dedicated.
So, if you think AYP is what's good for you, then great! Stick with it. However, AYP is no more a magic bullet than any other system.
Sorry, if I'm a bit of an AYP traitor  , just trying to help out.
some may smack themselves in the head with a hammer untill they loose the mind, would ayp not be more beneficial then this? AYP aims at cleansing the nervous system through various techniques that seem to be pretty powerful. my question would be do you base your statement off of exeprience? and only if you practice to the fullest extent can you say experience.
i am love, i am peace, i am joy
i am your brother
i am neil |
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seekeroftruth
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 08:33:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tubeseeker
some may smack themselves in the head with a hammer untill they loose the mind, would ayp not be more beneficial then this? AYP aims at cleansing the nervous system through various techniques that seem to be pretty powerful. my question would be do you base your statement off of exeprience? and only if you practice to the fullest extent can you say experience.
i am love, i am peace, i am joy
i am your brother
i am neil
I would agree that AYP is better than smacking yourself with a hammer. 
My statement that AYP isn't a magic bullet isn't my words, I was repeating what Yogani said: that there isn't a magic bullet in spirituality stuff.
But, then again, I am not basing this off of a lot of experience....
And, p.s., my name is niel also, but with an i e instead of an ei |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 09:00:56 AM
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| Eitherway, thank you for your post, your story was truly beautiful and inspiring. |
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Eitherway
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 09:05:26 AM
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Hi Seeker of Truth,
No disagreement here about there not being a magic bullet. However, I have to disagree with you on the use of this term. A "magic bullet" is generally thought (in spiritual discussions) of as ONE Practice that is purported to take the practitioner all the way (e.g, fasting, bramacharya, advaita style jnana, etc....)
Ayp, on the other hand, is a whole set of practices that Yogani has set up by taking the best techniques from different schools (in his opinion of course) within the overall yoga philosophy.
Ayp, does resonate for a whole lot of us because of the wide variety of practices and the integrated, cultural baggage free sort of presentation. I have no doubt that there are plenty of other systems that would work as well. After all history points to mystics from all the major religions and quite clearly they varied in their approach. I believe, the only true requisite, as Nisargadatta stated is sincerity, although unfortunately there isn't a time frame given for it.
Human history is littered with religious wars mostly based on the notion that mine is "truer" than yours. The last thing we want to do is carry this misunderstanding into our practices. So, practice what resonates with you. It all surely will lead to the same.
take care,
Eitherway
p.s- thanks to all. Please contribute more specifics from your experiences if possible. Thanks yogaislife and machart for your kind words. |
Edited by - Eitherway on Oct 01 2008 10:28:01 AM |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 11:31:00 AM
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anthem said
"Great point Katrine, if practices aren't being done twice daily as prescribed or if self-pacing isn't being honored, then progress can't accurately be measured. If we find ourselves irritable in our daily life then cutting down practices for a while might reveal the progress that has been made."
I relate to this very well. I was becoming real irratable and then pretty much quit all my practices and things opened up. Now I have gone back to consistent practice with a greater understanding. Before I was trying to evolve on during sitting practices and was frustrated why life was not getting better. Now i am doing practices and have brought more awareness the rest of the day, this combination has lead to less suffering and more times of being in the moment. Basically now if an undesirable thought comes up I just try and breath into it and let it go.
The thought of where I am headed, not sure, just trying to let it go. A couple things I have added that may have helped, grounding activities per yoganis suggestion and eating more purples and blues, upper chakra colors. For me the most difficult thing is not knowing, I am just letting that go. I have been having increased vibrations in other parts of body where before it was just base of spine occasionally. What does it mean, energy is moving, other then that I will keep with the practices and find out when I get there
one thing I do know, when at a yoga class last night and I heard the people singing, it felt as I was with the voices of angels, words cannot describe that experience, but I felt it.
i am letting go now
i am
neil
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 11:40:38 AM
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Hi Neil
quote:
Now I have gone back to consistent practice with a greater understanding. Before I was trying to evolve on during sitting practices and was frustrated why life was not getting better. Now i am doing practices and have brought more awareness the rest of the day, this combination has lead to less suffering and more times of being in the moment. Basically now if an undesirable thought comes up I just try and breath into it and let it go.
This is great, Neil
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atena
113 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 11:44:15 AM
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Hi Eitherway,
Anything specific you want to know? |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 12:20:41 PM
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| Patience is the most important aspect of yoga practice i reckon. When you give up the fruits of work you have no expectations for definite ends and the work is better. Same with Yoga. Plus, patience dissolves anger, frustration and other emotions, which is very important for attaining a balanced, fearless mind. |
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Dr. Love
Belgium
4 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 4:58:12 PM
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i would agree that sincerity is very important, maybe the only important!
i have been practicing Nisargadatta's advice in his book "I am that" for like a year or so.
it's been great, but at a certain time not too long ago... i felt stuck.
the thing that sparked my interest in meditation were some very strong experiences of enlightenment that were fueled by psychedelic substances.
because i felt stuck, i wondered if i would ever be able to be enlightened sober...
there are monks who meditate for years and still not achieve enlightenment, so i wondered if maybe doing a psychedelic again would be able to help me a bit. on the other hand i feared that all the progress i had made by being somewhat meditative... and abstaining from all consciousness-altering-substances completely...
that i would perhaps "lose" what i had already "gained".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
i decided to take the "trip" anyway,
and 2 months later i still feel like i have benefited.
the reason why i say i feel i have benefited is because,
i have now more intuitive feeling with being meditative.
meditative being such as that of Nisargadatta,
"clear seeing", "being the witness", "being sincere"... "simply being without anything else"...
even though these techniques sound simple, the mind makes the most simple thing look different than it is.
nisargadatta himself said in the book "i am that",
that at a certain point in time there must be a little explosion.
a change in consciouness, where instead of being the witness... one changes into being the Witness.
the difference between witness and Witness,
is that while being the witness... one is a person who does some kind of practice...
but while being the Witness... on realize that one is not a person... and one realize that he is THAT.
so according to the book I AM THAT,
the change that must occur is the change from experiencing oneself as the body/personality...
to experiencing himself as the ONE PURE AWARENESS.
and that "change" is what i think is very important,
because it is the time when the "I" falls... and no-self remains...
and that is what i think what nisargadatta meant with his term "explosion".
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i have little explosions sober now and then,
but that experience of a couple of months ago helped me to explode a bit more,
something which at the time i didn't feel like i could do... as i'd been feeling stuck for a while.
me personally, i shall try psychedelics again soon or later.
i don't know if i shall continue using them,
because i know that they can easily become a way to "hold myself back"...
and also because i don't know if they can give me any more benefit.
so, at the moment i feel like i have benefited from that psychedelic experience,
even months after i have taken the psychedelic...
simply because it has given me more intuitive feeling with how to simply "be" (or perhaps better said: how to not be )
the problem is that although i practice the meditative being,
and even though i am quite sincere at being meditative, i'm not sincere 100%.
and to be in the enlightened state, one must be sincere 100%.
the psychedelic experience of a few months ago,
i have felt extremely enlightened... no self left at all to feel "enlightened"...
but slowly the old patterns i started making again and again.
that's what being sincere means...
to not make the patterns. to be willing to see the patterns.
to be willing to see the persoN... to be willing to no longer be that person...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
if we are interested in something of this world,
we become a someone... and a someone is always a broken reflection of the PURE LIGHT that is TRUE-SELF...
the pure light can only be, when we do not become or continue to be the personality...
it is in the absense of self, that there is the experience of TRUE-SELF (a.k.a. enlightenment).
this is why TRUE-SELF can not be witnessed, because everything that is witnessed requires a witness...
an alternative way of putting this to words is that,
the one one was once a prisoner of his own imagination....
after liberation no longer exists.
there are no liberated ones,
because as long as there is... someone there is captivity.
because it was the very act of imagining to exist, and playing that role...
that cause the experience of being a person...
and I THINK that a person,
no matter what kind of person that may be,
inevitably means unhappiness... a.k.a. suffering.
I May be wrong! 
so nisargadatta say we are all BRAHMAN/VISHNU & SHIVA.
we are the creator of the Person, We Sustain and experiences ourself as the person, And we can stop sustaining (a.k.a. destroy).
so for enlightenment
"it is not what we do that matters, but what we don't do." - nisargadatta.
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as a final note, coming back to "sincerity"...
who is it that has problems as well as unhappiness, therefor making effort to become enlightened?
it is the person which becomes enlightened.
and there is only enlightenment (selflessness),
when the person 100% sincerily no longer wants to be a person (giving up the thirst for experience)...
when there is 5% thirst for worldly experience,
and 95% giving up trying to satisfy the endless thirst...
then full enlightenment can not be achieved.
so one takes it as far as one wants to,
and as far as one can...
and even if the thirst for worldly experience would be 50%
then the 50% of no longer trying to satisfy the thirst, will help no longer create as much bad karma...
and therefor one will become a happier person anyway.
but meditative practice is never in vain.
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maybe energy work such as QiQong or AYP can help to bring little, or big explosions.
maybe a psychedelic experience can do so too...
but by looking at nisargadatta or ramana maharshi,
i'd say that a simple "not this, not that" technique is enough to have very strong effects...
and perhaps all other techniques are just ways to keep our selves busy?
though i do believe that walking different directions lead to different ends.
so which direction one should to take depends on where one wants to go.
i suspect there are different kinds of enlightenment.
*my apologies for rant*
it is what i do, because i am a ranter   |
Edited by - Dr. Love on Oct 01 2008 6:32:40 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 5:05:19 PM
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Thanks for sharing, Dr. Love
And welcome to the forum |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 10:26:23 PM
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I agree with seekeroftruth on the sensitive versus insensitive division thing. I somehow started feeling strongly of late that spiritual success is only for chosen few and the average man like me wastes his time there.
I dont agree though with seekeroftruth on his comments about AYP. I feel it is a great compilation of wisdom put together with amazing simplicity for the benifit of mankind. I will ever be grateful to yogani for that. Yes it may not be a magic bullet but first show me one that is. There is no magic bullet in yoga. period.
The insensitive people may never get it. Toil all life and get bored of it and may leave. I see some people here like katrine, anthem11 who showed great progress with AYP and speak of great experiences. I feel they are blessed to be born like that. It is definitely not hardwork alone. You need to have the aptitude to succeed in spiritual world.
Ofcourse these are not negative statements and I will continue my efforts. I dont believe switching systems will help either. It will only worsen things if anything.
Ofcourse, I definitely see somethings missing in my efforts; Craving for truth or bhakti, moral regulations etc... I think just meditation alone wont do. You really need to want it, long for liberation. Be moderate in things, practise karma yoga, take responsibility for your actions etc... |
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seekeroftruth
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 10:44:24 PM
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Near,
What comments of mine, do you disagree with?
I have no doubt that is an amazing system, and I could go on and on giving AYP compliments that it deserves, but that still doesn't mean that it works for everyone.
As for whether some people arent sensitive enough and can't get any results...I hope that isn't the case. I'm almost 100% sure that anyone can meditate successfully because of brainwave entrainment. Brainwave entrainment literally forces your brain into a meditative state. If KAP doesn't work out, then my plan is to do brainwave stuff hardcore.
My theory about the insensitivity thing is that a calm mind is fundamental to spiritual practice. A lot of energy work requires concentration, and concentration requires a calm mind. THis is supported by Glenn Morris who said that a calm mind is the requirement for the rest of the KAP stuff.
Of course, I could be completely wrong, but maybe not.
I don't want to stop spiritual practice, but if I never get any results for years, then I'll be forced to quit...
I admire the fact that you can be so dedicated to AYP without any result. But, I don't think that just because you start a system doesn't mean you have to stick with the rest of your life...
Switching isn't necessarily a bad thing, IMO, but it can be excessive |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 02:32:38 AM
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Hi DrLove,
quote:
when there is 5% thirst for worldly experience,
and 95% giving up trying to satisfy the endless thirst...
then full enlightenment can not be achieved.
so one takes it as far as one wants to,
Yes, this is how I see it too. There is a necessity to give 100% in everything on this path if you want to go all the way home.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for your ranting! |
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Dr. Love
Belgium
4 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 06:52:43 AM
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it is probably already said before in this thread,
but one thing which helped and still helps me make progress..
is not wanting to make progress.
when sitting on a meditation cushion, in front of a computer or when walking or working...
it is by letting go of wanting to feel good...
letting go of that which wants to feel good... letting go of the mind...
which helps me be free. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 07:41:12 AM
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Hi Dr. Love
quote:
one thing which helped and still helps me make progress..
is not wanting to make progress.
when sitting on a meditation cushion, in front of a computer or when walking or working...
it is by letting go of wanting to feel good...
letting go of that which wants to feel good... letting go of the mind...
which helps me be free.
That's great, Dr. Love, it is beautiful that you can surrender like that....
I find this the most crucial of all.
The challenge is always to let go.....so that I can experience life anew each moment. This is how life stays fresh......how I am always free.
It is challenging .......because mind itself is not capable of letting go of anything......it is itself the filler of space. But with some inner silence established, we can witness the minds comings and goings (be it "good" or "bad") and not hold on to it, or let go of the hold once we notice we are grasping. But the noticing comes from inner stillness. That is why we meditate.....to widen and deepen our stand in inner silence.
Then the wanting of progress can be released too.
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Emil
Australia
141 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 09:18:37 AM
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Hi all,
This has been by far the most sincere and beautiful thread for me. This is like outcry of bhakti.
Just to share my opinion I think the set of practices offered in AYP (I'm currently practicing all of them except for Amaroli) is the most powerful set of spiritual practices on the earth. Yogani has done us a great favor for spending his years to discover and document the most effective spiritual practices for us.
Yet I believe there's only so much practices can do in a year. I'm actually starting to think that there is a magic bullet and that is a guru's grace. We have a thread going on about Siddha Yoga Shaktipat in the Kundalini forum. Maybe some day Yogani would decide to give shaktipat to the seekers at AYP. I personally feel the energy in his words every time I read his posts specially when they're directed to me. I have to say reading AYP forums over the past few months has given me the idea that people who have previously gone through initiations/shaktipats in other spiritual systems would take greater benefit from AYP practices in compare to those of us coming here with a lot of karmic blockages resulting from a bad childhood. If I want to give an example, I have been practicing Spinal breathing for almost a year and even though I'm really enjoying it, I still don't have an idea where my spinal nerve is. I'm sure if I continue this practice for another 4 years I will eventually get a vision of my spinal nerve but if I could go through a classic shaktipat with a peacock feather I could get to the same place in 5 minutes rather than 5 years. That would make my practice a lot more enjoyable and increase my bhakti.
Another thing that I can think of as a magic bullet is group practice of samyama which appears to be able to produce an effect very similar to shaktipat. So until we can convince Yogani to start an online shaktipat website what we can do is (as Katrine suggested) put together meditation groups to fast track our progress. This could be more natural and effective than the Shaman Juice (which I love to try some day!).
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Edited by - Emil on Oct 02 2008 9:02:44 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 09:53:02 AM
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Hi near
quote:
I see some people here like katrine, anthem11 who showed great progress with AYP and speak of great experiences. I feel they are blessed to be born like that. It is definitely not hardwork alone. You need to have the aptitude to succeed in spiritual world.
Just to balance things out:
I started to meditate (Trancendental Meditation) when I was about 24 years old. Before that I did som Yoga postures (Asanas) around the age of 18. My practise was pretty consistant for about a year, and then slowly I came off it for a while....I got busy....and though I liked the peace of meditating...nothing much happened during that year (other than my hands getting warm while practising......not enough to raise Bhakti to the level of consistant daily practise). After almost a year off it, I gradually started to meditate again.....I realized I had missed it, so a certain inner longing brought me back to it (see.....something indeed did happen that first year). Nothing happened for about two years. I meditated once a day, sometimes two. During that time - for short periods of a week or two, I was so busy that I didn't have the time to meditate (read - I didn't favor it over the other activities). Something inside would by then always bring me back. (So something was indeed happening)
By then I had married and given birth to my eldest daughter. At 27 I was diagnosed with Arthritis and after a year and a half of constant pain and medication I stopped the medication and went on a macrobiotic diet and continued to meditate daily. I healed. Then I changed careers.....I went from working as a flutist to studying and eventually working as a classical homeopath, and later teaching the subject. At 34 I was diagnosed with cancer. At the same time I started going to a free meditation group at the house of one of my collegues - a doctor, homeopath and accupuncturist. He and his wife were my first connection with people on the path into their own silence. It made all the difference for me. This guy would read from the Vedas in the beginning of the sessions (he and his wife used to be my teachers at the insitute, and would always speak about "consciousness" in class....i simply loved it). I attended their group for about a year (they live in another town now). By then, the trauma of the cancer had split me open and the choice of not taking chemotherapy, radiation and hormones (in spite of metastasis to the lymph), but just do with the operation and the macrobiotic diet was already made.
Living with the fear of death for several years is what made me practise twice a day on a completely regular basis. A year and a half after the cancer, the hands started buzzing, and I understood that there was a healing energy coming through. As for the practise itself "nothing happened" for years. I just found that without the practise I could not handle going through the ordeal of living with the acceptance of death (so meditation was my medicine). At the same time, the practise itself made it possible for the unconscious issues to rise within - one after another (so indeed something happened). It took however several years before I experiencially understood the connection between the meditation practise and the fact that life became lighter and lighter through the release of all that was suppressed or hidden within. I just watched and watched myself in order to understand and simply never understood until AYP that it was more and more witnessing and less and less meddleing that brought me closer to the moment. Together with the practise, after the cancer I started reading all kinds of books concerning the issue of "know thyself". At the same time all my patients at work taught me a lot. This is mostly how I got inspired. Of course....the more I connected with inner silence, the more I could relate to what I read....and see the connections both in my life and that of my patients.....it resonated like a bell inside. The understanding capacity increased because of regular meditation and the integration of the understanding in the way I lived my life. One day I started writing poems. They inspired me too.
The summer before the proper rising of the ecstatic conductivity, the Shine broke through for the first time. It came with the love aspect....I didn't see the light then. But for 7 days - everywhere I looked I "saw" love....it first came out of a flower sitting on the table in my living room. I had just cried for a long time, because I finally understood that I was absolutely helpless as to knowing how to help myself. After the 7 days it "disappeared" (I wandered off it).......but you can imagine, what this did to my Bhakti....
The year after, the ecstatic conductivity rose in the shushumna.
And then I met AYP......about 2,5 years ago. By then I had meditated for 20 years and consistantly twice a day for 10 years.
Thanks to Yoganis lessons, this forum and still more books, I gradually understood how to consistantly stay with the Shine.
And when I loose the understanding (usually through some kind of resistance to what is), I am kicked around for a while until I am willing to look at whatever it is that tempts me away from myself.
quote:
Ofcourse these are not negative statements and I will continue my efforts. I dont believe switching systems will help either. It will only worsen things if anything.
What more can I say......other than.....please continue to meditate! If you don't believe that there is a preciousness inside of us all.....the great thing is that this thought will not stop you from benefitting from meditating. You will benefit from it in spite of all your thoughts. And I think it's great that you already see that staying where you are will be right for you. Usually life has a way of showing it if it is not. And you are verily right here, are you not?
quote:
Ofcourse, I definitely see somethings missing in my efforts; Craving for truth or bhakti, moral regulations etc... I think just meditation alone wont do. You really need to want it, long for liberation. Be moderate in things, practise karma yoga, take responsibility for your actions etc...
Yes.
But as you can see......the longing for liberation, craving for truth, moderation, the will to serve......all this increases with greater connection to inner silence.
That is why I meditate.
Then - as Yogani stresses so many places in his lessons and in this forum - then I go out and live my life.
You are right - It is not enough to just meditate.
We must also actively take part in all of life.
This makes it so much easier for Silence to get the message of love through.
And you are already aware, near.
You already long for greater Bhakti.....you already see that "just meditating" is not enough.
quote:
You need to have the aptitude to succeed in spiritual world
I have to be willing to act on what it is I have already understood. This world is where spirit resides - it is all here....beginning and ending with ourselves.
So....just keep at it....don't lose heart.
I wish you all the best!
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 10:04:44 AM
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thank you katrina
i am love, i am peace, i am joy
i am your brother
i am neil
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 1:24:34 PM
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Yes, Thank you Katrine for sharing like that. You say I am courageous for getting off of methadone.....How about surrendering to your CANCER and refusing chemo etc. THAT is courageous. I've said it before and I will say it again; You are an inspiration to us all. Who needs Bhakti when you have Katrine!
In Love,
CarsonZi |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Oct 02 2008 2:02:54 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 1:38:12 PM
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Carson - thank you for being inspired - it is so great that we can inspire each other the way we do in this forum
quote:
You needs Bhakti when you have Katrine!
Now thank God you spelled that wrong
Trust me - Katrine will not do.
I am her - and I need truckloads of Bhakti.
But if reading this will increase your Bhakti - turning you towards yourself in a loving way.....then that is just great, Carson.
Then it all boils down to every one of us, doesn't it
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 2:09:32 PM
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Thanks for pointing out my errors . I try to be meticulous with my spelling, but often I know I make a ton of mistakes. I'm one of those "hit 3 keys, then backspace 2, hit 3 keys then backspace 2" type of typers, haha.
Reading your postings DOES inspire me, and DOES increase my Bhakti which is incredible. Many of your posts have brought me to tears, and many have brought that feeling that is becoming oh so familiar...the feeling of unity. I always love reading your postings Katrine, so don't stop!
Love,
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 3:26:40 PM
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***laughing****
Carson.......I can see you type ....*laughing*.......
If you can feel your own unity because of what is written here then that is just beautiful. Thank you for voicing that, Carson, I release it in heart.
I am grateful to the shine in both of us
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 3:57:59 PM
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Hi Neil
quote:
thank you katrina
i am love, i am peace, i am joy
i am your brother
i am neil
Thank you brother |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 4:05:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Thanks for pointing out my errors . I try to be meticulous with my spelling, but often I know I make a ton of mistakes. I'm one of those "hit 3 keys, then backspace 2, hit 3 keys then backspace 2" type of typers, haha.
Reading your postings DOES inspire me, and DOES increase my Bhakti which is incredible. Many of your posts have brought me to tears, and many have brought that feeling that is becoming oh so familiar...the feeling of unity. I always love reading your postings Katrine, so don't stop!
Love,
Carson
heres a hug for you brother carson, I let it go into the stillness
unity, we are brothers and sisters
we are love, we are peace, we are joy
we are one
i am we |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 5:11:19 PM
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It's like a great big group hug around here!! So warm and fuzzy |
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To Those Not Making Progress
