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Eitherway

USA
100 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2008 :  5:00:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Eitherway's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
What advise can those of us who swear by AYP give to those who are not making progress?

Of course, this quest is a marathon so obviously people need to temper their expectations. However, do people feel like a 1 year period of twice daily practices should provide enough proof and inspiration to continue further?

I know this (1 year period) might be laughable to those who have been practicing for decades but there is something about the combination of practices as well as rising of the spiritual tide that a lot of people feel that makes me think even this short a period will provide enough reinforcement to continue.

My personal suggestion is to heed the call to moderate or control the sexual expression of energy. Gradually, of course.

Please share insights.

take care,

Eitherway

Scott

USA
969 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2008 :  7:31:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Scott's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I had practiced AYP for quite a while, but I personally hit a roadblock. I would become spacey and had some health problems. Well recently I've been looking into acupuncture/herbalism, and I think if people are getting stuck and needing to self pace with doing hardly any practice (for instance, I wasn't able to sit cross legged or rest my hands near my solar plexus while laying down without getting negative effects) then they should go to a traditional chinese medicine (TCM) person. Heat in the head, pressure...every common yogic problem is covered with TCM.

A while ago "Jim and his karma" (who used to post here, I don't know where he is now) got stuck and was having a problem opening his throat and getting a downward flow. He went to a chinese herbalist, and also tried a subtle maneuver of his own, and got past that blockage.

So that's what I would suggest...routinely go get acupuncture and herbs for any conditions that are affecting you. They will also probably do pulse and tongue diagnosis, to find out conditions which may not make themselves apparent until later. This should help anyone who gets stuck on the path.
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  12:52:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Scott, (and sorry Either if I am hijacking your thread right off the bat)

Personally I think the best way to work through "roadblocks" like what you are talking about is
1. acupuncture and body work (energy and full body massages)
and
2. an ayahausca session.

That's what has always worked for me and has helped me cruise along right through the roadblocks that always seem to present themselves. Meditation on ayahausca is like nothing else. Especially with others who are meditating as well. UNbelievable.
Just to be clear, I am kinda suggesting this in a joking take with a grain of salt type way. I have no doubts that this method will not work for everyone. I'm just saying it has worked for ME so far.

Eitherway,
I think that a year is a long enough period of trial. But you must understand that AYP is not for EVERYONE. Not now anyways. People who are inclined will seek it out, people that are not couldn't be dragged here. Nothing we say or do (other then give the practices sufficient time and space to prove themselves) will be able to instill devotion to the practices in someone else. Only personal experience is able to do that. But I agree that a 1 year period where judgement is suspended until the end of the year should be sufficient time for a practitioner to decide whether AYP is for them or not. It all really comes down to whether or not a person REALLY TRUELY wants to be set free of their ego and suffering. Some people feel safe in their ego and their suffering. It is what they know, it is safe. Some people may never want to be set free. but the beauty of starting a meditation practice is that once you start, your desires (the reason you started meditation in the first place) will start to change. And by the time a year or so is up, the reason you started meditation is not the reason you are continuing it. As Ram Dass says in "Journey to Awakening"...
"Your ego includes both the suffering and the desire to be free of suffering. Sometimes we use cures halfheartedly, with the secret hope that the cures will not work. Then we can hold on to our suffering while protestingg we want to get free. But meditation DOES work. It gives you moments of sunlight-of clarity and detachment. Sooner or later you must either stop meditation, do it in a dishonet way, or confront your resistance to change."

In Love,
CarsonZi
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Eitherway

USA
100 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  1:48:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit Eitherway's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Carsonzi and scott,

Yeah, I think people should know that TCM, ayurveda, and energy work are very helpful as they are based on a somewhat similar understanding of our make up. I personally have not had to visit such practitioners other than a long distance reiki session but I wouldn't hesitate if self pacing and targeted practices weren't enough.

I was thinking more about people who felt that ayp wasn't having any effect on them. I don't know if there are practioners out there who have given a honest effort for a year and feel this way. If you are out there please share your non-experiences.

To me, needing tcm, energy work, etc..... is proof positive that there is a process occuring that is attributable to the practices and really that is all you can ask for. Of course smoothing out the process and getting past roadblocks is where the additional practices, self pacing, and supplemental resources (energy work, tcm, ayurveda) come in.

I don't really know what to say about ayahausca. Of course its reputation is legendary but honestly, after close to two years of ayp, I don't think I can be prodded into using it. Please note, prior to ayp, I would have loved to experience it and most likely, I would have hopped in my car and came up to see you tonight Carsonzi (hehehe). Now as far as those that are not satisfied with their progress, I think it could work in certain cases, but overall it might hurt as many people as it helps. Of course, this can be somewhat mitigated by controlling set and setting, however, the potency as well as the legal issues, access.....etc... give me pause.

I think it might be safer and more useful long term for such people to address sex, diet, use of recreational substances , and probably most crucially take inventory of where they stand in their life. I'm sure some people come here and are wowed by the dramatic experiences that are often shared and thus might miss the more mundane changes that are happening in their private lives, right before their eyes. The latter is the point of yoga in general and ayp in specific, atleast for me.

What about getting shaktipat? I'm thinking if I hadn't been convinced by a year, I might have sought out this as a supplement before giving up on the practices.

take care,

eitherway





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Ananda

3115 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  1:51:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ananda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
namaste my friends,

i'm a guy who's been into a lot of yoga and spiritual practices before ayp (raja, hatha, reiki, suffism, spiritualism, lahiri's mahasaya kriya yoga........)

and to be honest i've found ayp in a period which is less than a year, but man wow just to be fair and plus show some gratitude here.

1st i understood what was happening inside my body from early childhood plus a lot of things that happened in my life made sense for once and got stable and beneficial.

second i dropped off most of my other practices and the last one was suffism and now i'm only practicing ayp.

third for the 1st time i could say quite confidently i've experienced samadhi, oneness, radiant ecstacy, outpouring divine love....

now these are just my words and you don't have to take my word for it, just give it a try you have nothing to lose do some ayp practices and you'll c hopefully after a little amount of practice (2,3 weeks a month) you'll be running to your meditation seat and how the experiences will tend to become much deeper and more beautiful and it keeps on going it hasn't stopped yet and it seems that it won't.

plus good habbits will arise naturaly and bad ones will start to fall off naturaly too.

never mind mentioning how all of the mentioned above effects your surroundings and the people you love and the ones arround you in a very good and helpful way.

in the end all i can say to you, practice and you'll experience true peace the one that everyone dreams of...

i'm at this place now thk god and yogani who was inspired by divine outpouring love to share his knowledge with us, and am hungry to go on this divine romance till the end if there is one.

plus concerning blockages well these have disapeared too thx to ayp practices plus there is spinal breathing brastika in the leasons i advise people to check it up but it's a very advanced practice.

i'm not saying or promising that ayp will work for everyone, all i'm saying is it worked for and a lot of others and hopefully if you'll give a fair chance you'll experience it's benefits yourself.

light and love,

Ananda
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mikkiji

USA
219 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  2:21:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit mikkiji's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Life happens, period. We can have the desire to make it happen in a certain way, and that intention is very helpful in enabling us to actualize our potentials, but in reality, twice daily meditation, a life lived in sensible moderation, and not doing anything we know to be wrong is all we can or need to do to move as rapidly on our spiritual path as possible. It's a very long and twisted path, the journey takes many years. Focus more on enjoying the journey and less on what's at journey's end. Indeed, a year IS a laughably short time to be doing ANYTHING. I have been practicing for 38 years, and I've realized within the past ten or so of those years that THAT is a relatively short time. Live a good life, be kind and compassionate, give without a thought of receiving, practice tolerance and keep an open mind. Seek silence, innocence, light and truth, and you will find that the life which unfolds itself before you becomes more and more joyous. Eat meat or not, enjoy marital sex or not, these things matter little in the larger scheme of things. Be natural, be helpful, be quite and just BE. Life takes care of itself.
Michael
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  2:35:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Good Advice Micheal
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nearoanoke

USA
525 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  3:03:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I have been practising AYP since Jan 2005, thats around 3 years 8 months.

I dont want to say I have not made any progress but I dont know if I made any progress. I did not get any visible and clear experience of progress yet. I still am so easily disturbed and "keep on thinking/brooding over minor things" as I was 4 years ago.

I wouldnt blame AYP but I feel the general any meditation or spiritual practice takes long to acheive results for an average individual, unless you are blessed spiritually. People speak of decades for a change to happen, so till then may be it is groping in darkness. I dont know.

May be I should try out Acupuncture. What symptom should I mention when I see a doctor?

- Near
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atena

113 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  3:08:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit atena's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Eitherway, I tried AYP on and off for a year or something like that. Didn't work very well. Now I'm doing Standing chi kung and other quite physical practices... in very short time I've got better results than in that whole year :)
Meaning that I can really see the positive changes in my life.

I think I was missing rooting practices in the first place. I know AYP offers good stuff, if your system is ready for it. Some just aren't.
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Scott

USA
969 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  3:14:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Scott's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Near,

Well, if you don't know if you have made any progress maybe you should add on more practices? Also think about what in your life has changed...are you simpler now than before? Feel more love? More calm? If so then that is progress.

Acupuncture would be for if you were having health issues that manifested due to practice. Ones that last quite a while. In my case these health issues were aggravated by more practice, so I had to self pace to the point of not practicing at all....which doesn't make any sense. The effects of AYP are cumulative, so all of my progress was halted. At that point I should have gone to see an acupuncturist/herbalist...I suspect that my issues would've cleared up and I could have continued on in my practice.

But even though it's just for health issues...you could still go in and try it out, if you like. They will do the diagnosis for you so if you have no issues, that isn't a problem. Most likely if they find nothing wrong with you, they will do something general that will open your channels.

Edited by - Scott on Sep 29 2008 3:21:43 PM
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machart

USA
342 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  3:22:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Atena, that is a very good point about your system needing to be ready for AYP to achieve its benefits!

I had been doing a lot of hatha for a long time and finally discovered AYP several monthes ago. I don't think without the discipline acquired via the physical hatha would I be able to comfortably sit for 30 minutes at a stretch to achieve the benefits of AYP that I now experience and am very grateful for.

Edited by - machart on Sep 29 2008 3:36:15 PM
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  3:33:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Scott,
I have read about your Kunlun practices in another thread and am wondering if the combination of kunlun and AYP could have caused the aggravation of health problems? Any possibility or is the time frame way off. Sorry if this seems a silly question.

In Love,
CarsonZi
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Katrine

Norway
1813 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  4:46:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Katrine's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi

quote:
an ayahausca session


I have never heard of this......can someone tell me what is it?

Thanks
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Scott

USA
969 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  5:02:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit Scott's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Carson,

I stopped AYP before taking up kunlun.
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Katrine

Norway
1813 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  5:15:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Katrine's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
To those not making progress.....

Sometimes... a lot of work is done under the hood.....and it is not known to us. This does not mean progress is not made. Usually we look at the practise, or expected outcomes of it, and forget to look at the life we are living. Progress from practise can be found in many avenues of life; and in hindsight (after progress has become more noticeable) it will be more evident that progress happened also when we were not aware of it.

Of course - this is of little comfort if you feel that status quo drags on for years. If you can connect with people or written words or anything that can inspire you towards wanting greater inner connection to the preciousness that is always in you......then this will increase your Bakhti (devotion to That)......and increased Bakhti will always lead to more visible results. Devotion is live faith in the beauty of life. Just expose yourself to different ways of inspiration....it can come from anywhere, really.

If you have friends that meditate; maybe you can meditate together for a while?

Also - look at whatever disturbing issues are dominating your life in such a way that you enjoy life less.....see if there is any change over the years in how you relate to these issues. Do the issues themselves change? Do they have a common theme?

And finally - make sure that your practise is done the right way.
Yoganis lessons and this forum are great for that.

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atena

113 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  5:16:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit atena's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Machart,

Yep, some patience is needed too, but I meant that the energetic aspect of our being has to be ready for the practices to reap the benefits fully :)
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  5:24:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Katrine,
Ayahausca is a combination of two psychedelic ingredients found in a variety of different plants all over the world. The first ingredient is a mono amine oxidase inhibitor, or MAOI called harmaline/harmine which stops the stomache acids in your stomach from digesting the second ingredient before it is metabolized into the blood stream. The second ingredient is dimethyltryptamine, or DMT.(often called the spirit molecule) The combination of these ingredients into a vile tasting brew is often called ayahausca. Usually it is ingested as a group with a shaman in charge of the "ceremony". The shaman will then lead the ayahausca partakers through a spiritual journey with the aid of icaros. (or magic songs taught to him by the spirits) Much information is available on the ingerdients, the combination and the history of usage here at www.erowid.org. Just do a search for ayahausca and you will get a hit for the ayahausca "vault", which will contain links to all sorts of types of information should you be interested. I do not recommend someone without serious psychedelic experience partake of ayahausca or DMT unless under the supervision of a trusted shaman. Even in the presence of an experienced friend, the experience can easily get away from you and cause more harm then good. The icaros are really the key in my opinion to having a positive and rewarding spiritual experience with ayahausca. Hence the need for a trusted (and experienced) shaman.

Scott,
Do you mind elaborating a little bit on what kind of health problems AYP lead you to? And did Kunlun fix these issues?

In Love,
CarsonZi
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Katrine

Norway
1813 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  5:44:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Katrine's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Carson
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brother neil

USA
752 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  8:16:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
if your not making progress maybe you are holding on too much. imho, the whole point is letting go. Imagine floating downstream and you pass by a tree that looks nice so you grab onto it. while holding onto the tree you see rapids up ahead so you do not want to let go of the tree, so that is where you stay. be not afraid of the rapids, just let go. once through the rapids you will find calm waters and trees look even more beautiful. and after a while you start to let go while going through the rapids and you realize that they are not as bad when you relax.
my best to all, for all are one
i am letting go now
i am
neil
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Scott

USA
969 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  8:55:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Scott's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Carson,

Sent you an email, because it's personal.
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Anthem

1608 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2008 :  11:54:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
To those not making progress.....


quote:
And finally - make sure that your practise is done the right way.


Great point Katrine, if practices aren't being done twice daily as prescribed or if self-pacing isn't being honored, then progress can't accurately be measured. If we find ourselves irritable in our daily life then cutting down practices for a while might reveal the progress that has been made.

I think it is also important to note that we will often find what we are looking for. Fear of no progress or that we can't progress can certainly impact our perspective and ability to see change. The good news is with enough practice, that will eventually go to.

I don't think a day goes by where I don't pray with my entire being for the desired result. Progress begins with intense Bhakti the most sincere desire to change will light the fire.
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yogani

USA
5198 Posts

Posted - Sep 30 2008 :  12:35:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi All:

It is an essential question, and with wonderful answers posted. Isn't it interesting how many angles there are to it?

This is an important discussion, particularly as it relates to those who are sincere in their spiritual desire (bhakti), and are willing to consistently apply means designed to move forward, even in the face of limited visible progress. I have much admiration for such practitioners -- their patience and persistence indicate great spiritual strength.

While clear answers and means for overcoming stubborn blocks to perceived progress in everyone are not fully formulated at this stage, I think in time we will see the causes and effects of practice further optimized, so even those who have had ongoing doubts will find through their own experience enough inspiration to fuel their journey for as long as it takes. This is the essence of self-directed spiritual practice, which is by definition self-motivated. It begins with our commitment to our chosen ideal (bhakti), and acting on that every day as best we can in our practices and daily life.

Obviously, there should be some sense of "effect" from the "causes" we are implementing, or why continue on the same track indefinitely? It is up to our teachers and the spiritual community at large to continue working on optimizing the most effective means, so we can get to the point where no one will feel they are lacking in progress for long. In time, we will get our arms around it. We must. No sincere practitioner will be left behind.

For those of us who are less willing to take responsibility for our spiritual unfoldment, well, there is only so much that others can do for us. Spiritual knowledge is only useful when it is sincerely and consistently applied toward fulfilling our aspirations for something more in life. In other words, all spiritual progress begins and ends within us. This is why we say...

The guru is in you.

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seekeroftruth

USA
23 Posts

Posted - Sep 30 2008 :  6:21:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit seekeroftruth's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Eitherway, I'm in a similar situation as you, though I don't practice AYP.

I was planning on practicing AYP for a long time, but I wasn't feeling anything and the Kunlun seminar came into town. So, I decided to give Kunlun a shot. Though about 90% of all the people at the seminar, opened up I wasn't one of them. It was kinda strange seeing people bounce up and down, scream, cry, laugh, and shout but not be a part of it.

I figured that I needed time, so I practiced Kunlun stuff for 4 and a half months, but nothing happened.

Now, I'm doing KAP (Kundalini Awakening Process by Glenn Morris), but I haven't been feeling much.

One thing I've realized is that the practioner makes the practice, so to speak. When people talk about powerful spiritual practices, they mean powerful for SENSITIVE people. You can give someone the most powerful technique in the world, but if they're not sensitive, then they won't feel anything.

I realize how impatient I must seem in switching practices twice in about 15 months, but I think I made the right decision.

I'm not saying to switch, I'm just saying that AYP isn't the only powerful system out there.

Just out of curiosity, how far are you in the practices? You can probably afford to push the envelope, so to speak.

I wonder if anyone here was born insensitive and became sensitive, so to speak. And by insensitive, I mean INSENSITIVE. As in not being able to meditate or do anything spiritual at all.

I'll also ask at the Tao Bums, for my sake as well as yours.
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Eitherway

USA
100 Posts

Posted - Sep 30 2008 :  7:53:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Eitherway's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Seeker of truth,

Actually, I started the thread to gather advice and pass to those who feel they are not seeing signs of progress.

I, myself, have been very lucky. I started ayp in Jan. of 2007 and for some reason, my instinct said this was it. Never really practiced yoga before save for reading some J. Krishnamurti and attempting his form of witness meditation. Also, I practiced spinal breathing from by a book by Norman Paulsen (I believe one of Yogananda's students) for a couple of weeks. The latter lead to some buzzes up my spine when I urinated and I started doing a search on the web for this and found ayp. I actually went over board on the practices in the start and had a rough couple of months before I discovered the forum and self pacing.

Looking back, I had a really rough few years between 2001-2006. Between family, school, and personal troubles, I was basically on my knees. In fact, although, I have never been religious, I just got on my knees and couldn't handle the frustration anymore, and started talking to God. I remember saying, I have no idea what you are, no idea how to address you, no idea about much of anything anymore. I just want to know, live, and share the truth. Fulfill the potential and purpose that my existence is for. Please forgive me for all that I have done wrong (have done more than the average person) and lead me to truth. And actually soon after, I found ayp and it just clicked for me.

As far as turning insensitive persons into sensitive, I am thinking convincing yourself to practice for a couple of years without much reinforcement indicates sensitivity in some form. For me the insensitive, just don't get yoga and don't care about this not getting (nothing wrong with this-each has his own path). I am not belittling them (my wife is this way), but it seems they still think the world, i.e, materialism, is enough. Of course, none of us are trying to leave the world behind and I'm sure further explanation is not necessary.

Also, sensitivity must vary with experiences and current outlook. I don't think any one could have convinced me to start a ayp like system earlier in my life. Suffering seems like a natural catalyst for this sensitivity but then again there are plenty who suffer but not enough or maybe too much to get on their knees and still others who find yoga without suffering.

I think the following have been helpful to me:

1) talking to God. Sobbing, crying hysterically, asking for help and guidance. Of course this can't be faked but frustration from not seeing progress can be enough of an impetus.

2) Preservation and Cultivation of sexual energy - All those yogi's are right. Just don't go for broke all at once, otherwise, it will be counter productive for most.

3) Diet- For me, more than being vegetarian vs. omnivore, the super catalyst is fasting. I actually did a 10 day water fast in 2001 and I remember a start of a buzzing sound in my head. I don't know what this was and it went away soon, but I feel it was the start of something. There is nothing like fasting to quiet a unruly mind. Not that it won't come back, but just its quieting down is amazing for a person who has had a over active mind for a companion their whole lives.

Of course, as Yogani has warned, we all have a tendency to look for and find a magic bullet. There probably isn't one but these are probably good supplements for the base practices of meditation and pranayama.

take care,
Eitherway
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machart

USA
342 Posts

Posted - Sep 30 2008 :  11:47:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Eitherway,

I think your advice is excellent!...I have never tried a fast. I'm a real snackaholic late at night and will try it.

...You may have hit the nail on the head...more tapas...more spiritual progress...

Thanks for your insight Eitherway!






Edited by - machart on Oct 01 2008 03:41:47 AM
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seekeroftruth

USA
23 Posts

Posted - Sep 30 2008 :  11:59:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit seekeroftruth's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Of course, there is no magic bullet when it comes to spirituality stuff.

And, I'm definitely way too impatient when it comes to spirituality.

Also, it's good to be dedicated.

So, if you think AYP is what's good for you, then great! Stick with it. However, AYP is no more a magic bullet than any other system.

Sorry, if I'm a bit of an AYP traitor , just trying to help out.
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