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 Alternate nostril breathing and root to crown SBP?
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Christi

United Kingdom
4363 Posts

Posted - Mar 14 2010 :  04:35:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Moderator note: This topic has been split from
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Hi Yogsadhak

quote:

This is off subject but,I have read in Swami Satyananda Saraswati's works that Nadi shodhana in the advanced stages with bandhas,mudras and at very high ratios is sufficient in awakening and raising kundalini even without spinal breathing and deep meditation, In fact Swami Sivananda's book, Kundalini yoga he gives two pranayamas awaken the kundalini: Nadi Shodhana and the other is spinal breathing from muladhar to Sahasrar.


Swami Satyananda is right, in fact pretty much any spiritual practice is sufficient to awaken kundalini. In my own case, kundalini was awakened through practicing breathing meditation. But the key in yoga is not to awaken kundalini, it is to awaken it in a manner that is safe. Practicing nadi shodhana with mudras and bhandas and high ratios of breathing will awaken kundalini, but what happens then is pretty much anyone's guess. Unless a safe channel has been prepared for the awakening energy, it could lead to some serious problems.

The same goes for root to crown spinal breathing pranayama. The root to crown (sahasrar) channel is not initially a safe pathway to follow for the awakening of spiritual energy. In AYP we first purify the channel between the root and the third eye, which gives a lot more stability over the whole process of awakening. We don't go to the crown until much later, and then only in a manner that is controlled and safe.

Christi

Edited by - AYPforum on Mar 14 2010 5:20:46 PM

Yogsadhak

USA
17 Posts

Posted - Mar 14 2010 :  06:13:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit Yogsadhak's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi Yogsadhak

quote:

This is off subject but,I have read in Swami Satyananda Saraswati's works that Nadi shodhana in the advanced stages with bandhas,mudras and at very high ratios is sufficient in awakening and raising kundalini even without spinal breathing and deep meditation, In fact Swami Sivananda's book, Kundalini yoga he gives two pranayamas awaken the kundalini: Nadi Shodhana and the other is spinal breathing from muladhar to Sahasrar.


Swami Satyananda is right, in fact pretty much any spiritual practice is sufficient to awaken kundalini. In my own case, kundalini was awakened through practicing breathing meditation. But the key in yoga is not to awaken kundalini, it is to awaken it in a manner that is safe. Practicing nadi shodhana with mudras and bhandas and high ratios of breathing will awaken kundalini, but what happens then is pretty much anyone's guess. Unless a safe channel has been prepared for the awakening energy, it could lead to some serious problems.

The same goes for root to crown spinal breathing pranayama. The root to crown (sahasrar) channel is not initially a safe pathway to follow for the awakening of spiritual energy. In AYP we first purify the channel between the root and the third eye, which gives a lot more stability over the whole process of awakening. We don't go to the crown until much later, and then only in a manner that is controlled and safe.

Christi




Thank you very much for your reply Christi, I have a question. What are your thoughts about Swami Satyananda's Kriya yoga which follows a circular breathing pattern from root up the front and down the back, Rather than the AYP's linear from root to brow. It involves 20 kriyas.
Do you think this route is more or less effective than AYP? Why or why not?
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Christi

United Kingdom
4363 Posts

Posted - Mar 14 2010 :  1:34:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogsadhak

quote:
Thank you very much for your reply Christi, I have a question. What are your thoughts about Swami Satyananda's Kriya yoga which follows a circular breathing pattern from root up the front and down the back, Rather than the AYP's linear from root to brow. It involves 20 kriyas.
Do you think this route is more or less effective than AYP? Why or why not?


Personally I find it less effective than AYP spinal breathing. What you describe is basically the microcosmic orbit in reverse. AYP spinal breathing is basically light years ahead of the microcosmic orbit, whichever direction the microcosmic orbit is practiced in. This is for many reasons, but especially because AYP Spinal Breathing works inside the sushumna nadi, rather than working with the external aspects of the chakras, and with some pretty minor energy channels as the microcosmic orbit does.

Christi
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Yogsadhak

USA
17 Posts

Posted - Mar 14 2010 :  9:15:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yogsadhak's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi Yogsadhak

quote:
Thank you very much for your reply Christi, I have a question. What are your thoughts about Swami Satyananda's Kriya yoga which follows a circular breathing pattern from root up the front and down the back, Rather than the AYP's linear from root to brow. It involves 20 kriyas.
Do you think this route is more or less effective than AYP? Why or why not?


Personally I find it less effective than AYP spinal breathing. What you describe is basically the microcosmic orbit in reverse. AYP spinal breathing is basically light years ahead of the microcosmic orbit, whichever direction the microcosmic orbit is practiced in. This is for many reasons, but especially because AYP Spinal Breathing works inside the sushumna nadi, rather than working with the external aspects of the chakras, and with some pretty minor energy channels as the microcosmic orbit does.

Christi




Thanks again Christi. A few of the 20 kriyas use the spinal passage way, but in a different way. Many people, as well as some on this forum, have been saying the opposite. They say that they prefer the circular route instead of the linear route. Have you practiced the Circular route?
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Christi

United Kingdom
4363 Posts

Posted - Mar 15 2010 :  07:31:58 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogasadhak,

Yes, I have practiced both. I discovered the circular practices a few years ago through watching the energies in my body. The circular practices are also very popular in the Taoist tradition. Both practices are effective (circular and linear), but as I said above, the AYP linear Spinal Breathing practice is basically a more advanced practice. It has to do with the bipolar nature of the human nervous system and the connection between the root chakra and the third eye (brow). It is something that no circular route can mimick. Even if we were to use a circular route which went up the spine to the third eye, and then down the front of the body (or vice versa) it would not have the effectiveness that the linear spinal breathing practice has, working completely within the sushumna.

Spinal breathing pranayama is discussed at length in this lesson and the following 12 lessons:

http://www.aypsite.org/41.html

The proof of course is in the pudding. One way to find out is to practice both, and see how things develop. If you were to do this, I would put the circular practice before Spinal Breathing Pranayama, and then go straight in to meditation after that. Make sure that you are comfortable and stable in both meditation and spinal breathing for a few weeks or months before adding in any circular breathing to your practice. Also remember that there can be a doubling up of effects when adding in additional energetic practices, so you would need to self-pace carefully. If you are already doing circular breathing practices, then wait until you have been stable with them for a few weeks or months and add in Spinal Breathing.

Then you will be able to see for yourself how the different practices work, and what the energetic effects are over time.

Christi

p.s. welcome to the AYP support forums.
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Yogsadhak

USA
17 Posts

Posted - Mar 15 2010 :  12:27:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yogsadhak's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi Yogasadhak,

Yes, I have practiced both. I discovered the circular practices a few years ago through watching the energies in my body. The circular practices are also very popular in the Taoist tradition. Both practices are effective (circular and linear), but as I said above, the AYP linear Spinal Breathing practice is basically a more advanced practice. It has to do with the bipolar nature of the human nervous system and the connection between the root chakra and the third eye (brow). It is something that no circular route can mimick. Even if we were to use a circular route which went up the spine to the third eye, and then down the front of the body (or vice versa) it would not have the effectiveness that the linear spinal breathing practice has, working completely within the sushumna.

Spinal breathing pranayama is discussed at length in this lesson and the following 12 lessons:

http://www.aypsite.org/41.html

The proof of course is in the pudding. One way to find out is to practice both, and see how things develop. If you were to do this, I would put the circular practice before Spinal Breathing Pranayama, and then go straight in to meditation after that. Make sure that you are comfortable and stable in both meditation and spinal breathing for a few weeks or months before adding in any circular breathing to your practice. Also remember that there can be a doubling up of effects when adding in additional energetic practices, so you would need to self-pace carefully. If you are already doing circular breathing practices, then wait until you have been stable with them for a few weeks or months and add in Spinal Breathing.

Then you will be able to see for yourself how the different practices work, and what the energetic effects are over time.

Christi

p.s. welcome to the AYP support forums.



Thank you Christi,

Since the 20 kriyas of Swami Satyananda includes both circular and linear practices as well as awakening the chakras intensely,

Is it not giving the benefits of AYP, Taoist microcosmic orbit and ancient Kundalini yoga,which actually place some emphasis on the chakras as is the tradition of yoga itself?
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yogani

USA
5195 Posts

Posted - Mar 15 2010 :  1:32:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Yogsadhak

Thank you Christi,

Since the 20 kriyas of Swami Satyananda includes both circular and linear practices as well as awakening the chakras intensely,

Is it not giving the benefits of AYP, Taoist microcosmic orbit and ancient Kundalini yoga,which actually place some emphasis on the chakras as is the tradition of yoga itself?


Hi Yogsadhak, and welcome!

It may be so, but why are you seeking verification from elsewhere? Isn't your own daily practice enough verification? It is either working for you or it isn't, and it seems any questions you have about Satyananda's teachings should go back to Bihar or others who are qualified in that system.

AYP is a system also, but that does not mean AYP practitioners are experts on everything else, or that one system is "better" than another. Each will travel their own path, and it is the practitioner's choice. Here is a lesson on the consideration of other paths: http://www.aypsite.org/19.html

Also, you might like to take a look at this, posted today in another topic:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=7427#66092
quote:
Note to All: I am asked every week in email and the forums to comment on at least a dozen "other systems" of practice. It is not possible for me to respond to all of these requests. The suggestion to those who are interested in comparing AYP to other systems of practice is to become familiar with the AYP baseline system through study of the writings and daily practice. Then you will be in the best position to form your own opinion about other systems of practice in relation to AYP, and proceed accordingly.

It has always seemed odd when people come and ask me or other AYP practitioners to explain or justify another system. Yet, this is exactly what people keep asking over and over again.

If you are attempting to establish a superiority claim of one teaching over another, it will not go far here, because all practitioners are encouraged to find what works best for them, and it is not always going to be the same thing for everyone. We accept that fact in AYP, and do what we can to provide flexibility for the practitioner through extensive application of self-pacing and alternate approaches available within the AYP baseline system.

One size does not fit all. Yet, we all have to pick something, and stick with it for the long term if we expect to find significant results. That applies to any system.

What anyone "thinks" about one system versus another is of little consequence. The question is, are you practicing daily for the long term? If you are, using a time-tested approach, then all the answers will be there for you, and you won't have to be asking others to tell you what you can only find out in yourself through direct experience.

You can be sure that whatever you decide to do on your path will be respected here, and a return of the favor is expected. Share your journey. We'd love to hear about it. Always favor real practice over the "scenery" of endless speculation, and enjoy!

The guru is in you.

PS: A discussion on alternate nostril breathing in relation to AYP spinal breathing pranayama can be found at the end of Lesson 41.

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Yogsadhak

USA
17 Posts

Posted - Mar 15 2010 :  6:12:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yogsadhak's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by yogani

quote:
Originally posted by Yogsadhak

Thank you Christi,

Since the 20 kriyas of Swami Satyananda includes both circular and linear practices as well as awakening the chakras intensely,

Is it not giving the benefits of AYP, Taoist microcosmic orbit and ancient Kundalini yoga,which actually place some emphasis on the chakras as is the tradition of yoga itself?


Hi Yogsadhak, and welcome!

It may be so, but why are you seeking verification from elsewhere? Isn't your own daily practice enough verification? It is either working for you or it isn't, and it seems any questions you have about Satyananda's teachings should go back to Bihar or others who are qualified in that system.

AYP is a system also, but that does not mean AYP practitioners are experts on everything else, or that one system is "better" than another. Each will travel their own path, and it is the practitioner's choice. Here is a lesson on the consideration of other paths: http://www.aypsite.org/19.html

Also, you might like to take a look at this, posted today in another topic:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=7427#66092
quote:
Note to All: I am asked every week in email and the forums to comment on at least a dozen "other systems" of practice. It is not possible for me to respond to all of these requests. The suggestion to those who are interested in comparing AYP to other systems of practice is to become familiar with the AYP baseline system through study of the writings and daily practice. Then you will be in the best position to form your own opinion about other systems of practice in relation to AYP, and proceed accordingly.

It has always seemed odd when people come and ask me or other AYP practitioners to explain or justify another system. Yet, this is exactly what people keep asking over and over again.

If you are attempting to establish a superiority claim of one teaching over another, it will not go far here, because all practitioners are encouraged to find what works best for them, and it is not always going to be the same thing for everyone. We accept that fact in AYP, and do what we can to provide flexibility for the practitioner through extensive application of self-pacing and alternate approaches available within the AYP baseline system.

One size does not fit all. Yet, we all have to pick something, and stick with it for the long term if we expect to find significant results. That applies to any system.

What anyone "thinks" about one system versus another is of little consequence. The question is, are you practicing daily for the long term? If you are, using a time-tested approach, then all the answers will be there for you, and you won't have to be asking others to tell you what you can only find out in yourself through direct experience.

You can be sure that whatever you decide to do on your path will be respected here, and a return of the favor is expected. Share your journey. We'd love to hear about it. Always favor real practice over the "scenery" of endless speculation, and enjoy!

The guru is in you.

PS: A discussion on alternate nostril breathing in relation to AYP spinal breathing pranayama can be found at the end of Lesson 41.





Hi Yogani Thank you for the information

I apologize if I might have offended you. I am just here to learn. I am not here to compare which path is better. I just don't want any stone unturned. I am aware that the techniques of tantra,which yoga is a part of, includes literally thousands of practices.

I have practiced kriya yoga using the spinal passage way from muladhar to ajna and later tried from muladhar to bindu, I found root to ajna more effective.

When I added mulabandha as you have explained in your lessons while in siddhasana the results were lessened. I seems to me that bandhas are to be practiced during retention rather than inhalation and exhalation,I might be wrong but this is just my experience.

I have also practiced nadi shodhana in the past. I found it effective in calming the mind and I also feel the energy all over the body even without bandhas. however I don't feel the energy flowing as I do in spinal breathing.

I have also applied the principals of swara yoga,which is more than just pranayama, with incredible result of destroying illness before symptoms take root,just be adjusting the swaras not just for me but for others as well.

Actually I wanted you to answer all the questions that I have directed to Christi, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you in advance.
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yogani

USA
5195 Posts

Posted - Mar 15 2010 :  7:18:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogsadhak:

It is great to know about a lot of practices. It is a sign of the times. It is even better to be applying only a few practices with effectiveness, year in and year out. The suggestion is to continue to practice with balance and consistency, learn from your experience, and make adjustments occasionally as needed.

So far, you have only mentioned energy practices. In the AYP approach, deep meditation, the cultivation of abiding inner silence, is regarded to be primary, with energy practices coming after to facilitate the expansion of inner silence through the rise of ecstatic conductivity (kundalini) throughout the neurobiology. But not all systems take that approach.

In AYP, we also cover systematic applications of samyama and various modes of self-inquiry, which are for further cultivating abiding inner silence, and expanding and stabilizing the witness quality in everyday living, leading to unity (Oneness) and the ongoing experience of "stillness in action." This leads naturally to an outpouring of divine love and a tendency toward service to others.

Carry on!

The guru is in you.

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Yogsadhak

USA
17 Posts

Posted - Mar 15 2010 :  9:23:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yogsadhak's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by yogani

Hi Yogsadhak:

It is great to know about a lot of practices. It is a sign of the times. It is even better to be applying only a few practices with effectiveness, year in and year out. The suggestion is to continue to practice with balance and consistency, learn from your experience, and make adjustments occasionally as needed.

So far, you have only mentioned energy practices. In the AYP approach, deep meditation, the cultivation of abiding inner silence, is regarded to be primary, with energy practices coming after to facilitate the expansion of inner silence through the rise of ecstatic conductivity (kundalini) throughout the neurobiology. But not all systems take that approach.

In AYP, we also cover systematic applications of samyama and various modes of self-inquiry, which are for further cultivating abiding inner silence, and expanding and stabilizing the witness quality in everyday living, leading to unity (Oneness) and the ongoing experience of "stillness in action." This leads naturally to an outpouring of divine love and a tendency toward service to others.

Carry on!

The guru is in you.





Hi Yogani,

Thank you very much for your reply. As far as meditation techniques are concerned,After Pranayama I would either sit and perform shambavi mudra with eye half close,this feels more relaxing to me,focusing on the pulsations I feel there or I would mentally chant Om at that point, I would feel the effects of Om long after practice is done.

As far as Samyama, I thought that samyama was a combination of dharana, Dhyana and Samadhi. To my knowledge, I thought that Dhyana and Samadhi were spontaneous occurrences,and cannot be practiced only experienced. How can beginners practiced samyama,when they have great difficulty practicing dharana?

I tried Yogananda's energization exercises with Asana practice and the results were amazing. After about a week I could feel the energy running through my arms and legs. What are your thoughts on Yogananda's energization exercises?

Thanks in advanced
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yogani

USA
5195 Posts

Posted - Mar 15 2010 :  11:00:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogsadhak:

AYP deep mediation encompasses dharana, dhyana and samadhi in one fell swoop, steadily cultivating permanent abiding samadhi through twice-daily practice. Samyama also covers the last three limbs of yoga, going in the reverse direction, "moving stillness" from the inside out. Both of these are specific techniques that can be easily undertaken in an efficient daily routine of practices, which can also be developed to include energy cultivation techniques (pranayama, mudras, bandhas, tantric sexual methods, etc.). Together, these cultivate abiding inner silence and ecstatic conductivity, and the joining of the two, which is the marriage of stillness and ecstasy within us.

You are still talking mostly about energy practices and experiences, which is only half of the enlightenment equation. In the AYP approach, deep meditation and related inner silence cultivation methods play a much more prominent role.

The most important question any spiritual aspirant can ask is, What is my consistent daily practice? If the answer to that changes every week or month, then it is time to take a step back and assess the situation. Spiritual practice is not about the energy experience of the week. It is about the gradual process of human spiritual transformation cultivated over years. For that, it is good to systematically address both sides of the enlightenment equation (inner silence and ecstatic conductivity), which requires consistency over time in the corresponding practices, no matter what system we may be using.

All of this is built up in a logical fashion in the main lessons.

The guru is in you.

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Yogsadhak

USA
17 Posts

Posted - Mar 16 2010 :  12:38:22 AM  Show Profile  Visit Yogsadhak's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by yogani

Hi Yogsadhak:

AYP deep mediation encompasses dharana, dhyana and samadhi in one fell swoop, steadily cultivating permanent abiding samadhi through twice-daily practice. Samyama also covers the last three limbs of yoga, going in the reverse direction, "moving stillness" from the inside out. Both of these are specific techniques that can be easily undertaken in an efficient daily routine of practices, which can also be developed to include energy cultivation techniques (pranayama, mudras, bandhas, tantric sexual methods, etc.). Together, these cultivate abiding inner silence and ecstatic conductivity, and the joining of the two, which is the marriage of stillness and ecstasy within us.

You are still talking mostly about energy practices and experiences, which is only half of the enlightenment equation. In the AYP approach, deep meditation and related inner silence cultivation methods play a much more prominent role.

The most important question any spiritual aspirant can ask is, What is my consistent daily practice? If the answer to that changes every week or month, then it is time to take a step back and assess the situation. Spiritual practice is not about the energy experience of the week. It is about the gradual process of human spiritual transformation cultivated over years. For that, it is good to systematically address both sides of the enlightenment equation (inner silence and ecstatic conductivity), which requires consistency over time in the corresponding practices, no matter what system we may be using.

All of this is built up in a logical fashion in the main lessons.

The guru is in you.





Hi Yogani,

Thank again. I totally agree with you when it comes to perseverance on the spiritual path.

I do have one concern with authenticity, all your AYP practices are familiar to me as ancient time tested yoga techniques except for Spinal bastrika and Targeted or crown bastrika. I don't question their recent effectiveness with AYP practitioners, but I cant help but to ponder that with the large chunk of the other time tested AYP techniques,their practice seem superfluous and have not stood the time of the other thousands of years old techniques in the AYP toolbox. Of course I may be wrong on this.

I thought that bastrika was akin to nadi shodhana in that it is used for general purification of the nadis as well as physical and faculties.

Did you concoct these techniques through trial and experience?
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yogani

USA
5195 Posts

Posted - Mar 16 2010 :  11:15:54 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogsadhak:

Spinal and targeted bastrika are hybrids of bastrika and spinal breathing, found to have some benefit for clearing localized blockages under certain circumstances. These are traditional elements that have been combined for optional use. There are other hybrids available in AYP, such as yoni chin pump and yoni spinal breathing. All of these are optional. Everything in AYP is optional.

Still focusing almost exclusively on energy practices? It is suggested again to balance inner silence and energy practices. Man does not become enlightened by energy practices alone. Why worry so much about finer points in the energy practice department, when there is a huge gaping hole in the meditation department?

Lahiri Mahasaya said, "Enlightenment is the merging of emptiness (inner silence) with euphoria (ecstatic energy)." Somewhere along the way the importance of cultivating the emptiness side became largely forgotten in kriya yoga (and elsewhere). AYP's tools in this area offer an opportunity for enhancement for those who sense that something has been missing. Energy experiences can be very seductive, but are not so spiritually progressive by themselves. It takes two to do the enlightenment tango -- inner silence and ecstatic conductivity.

The guru is in you.

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Yogsadhak

USA
17 Posts

Posted - Mar 16 2010 :  10:31:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yogsadhak's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by yogani

Hi Yogsadhak:

Spinal and targeted bastrika are hybrids of bastrika and spinal breathing, found to have some benefit for clearing localized blockages under certain circumstances. These are traditional elements that have been combined for optional use. There are other hybrids available in AYP, such as yoni chin pump and yoni spinal breathing. All of these are optional. Everything in AYP is optional.

Still focusing almost exclusively on energy practices? It is suggested again to balance inner silence and energy practices. Man does not become enlightened by energy practices alone. Why worry so much about finer points in the energy practice department, when there is a huge gaping hole in the meditation department?

Lahiri Mahasaya said, "Enlightenment is the merging of emptiness (inner silence) with euphoria (ecstatic energy)." Somewhere along the way the importance of cultivating the emptiness side became largely forgotten in kriya yoga (and elsewhere). AYP's tools in this area offer an opportunity for enhancement for those who sense that something has been missing. Energy experiences can be very seductive, but are not so spiritually progressive by themselves. It takes two to do the enlightenment tango -- inner silence and ecstatic conductivity.

The guru is in you.





Hi Yogani,

Thanks. I am aware of the importance of meditaion along side pranayam.
Meditation is perhaps even more important than the latter. Speaking of meditation,

How is the "I AM" mantra more important or powerful than the primordial OM? What are your thoughts on Chidakasha Dharana?
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yogani

USA
5195 Posts

Posted - Mar 16 2010 :  11:59:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Yogsadhak

How is the "I AM" mantra more important or powerful than the primordial OM? What are your thoughts on Chidakasha Dharana?


Hi Yogsadhak:

Regarding the I AM mantra versus OM, see here: http://www.aypsite.org/59.html
Also see "Mantra - Enhancements" in the topic index on the main website. We do include OM later in an enhancement.

Regarding Chidakasha Dharana, it will be best if I refrain from commenting on other styles of meditation, because the number of them is unlimited, and the requests for comments keep coming in by the boatload. A line has to be drawn somewhere. This one is covered implicitly in the lessons already anyway. Can you find it?

Others, feel free to put in your two cents.

The guru is in you.

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Tibetan_Ice

Canada
758 Posts

Posted - Mar 17 2010 :  12:11:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi :)
Is this an acurate description of the practice of Chidakasha Dharana?:

link: http://www.yogamag.net/archives/198...hidcla.shtml

quote:

The practice of chidakasha dharana
Chidakasha dharana is a very sacred and secret technique of tantra. It leads to the state of meditation and tranquillity of mind. It also balances the emotions and creates equilibrium in the physical body. Chidakasha dharana is concentration and contemplation on the inner space which is neither physiological nor psychological.

Stage one: letting the visions come

Now, please get ready for the practice of chidakasha dharana.

Sit in any comfortable meditative posture with your eyes closed.

Try to visualize the space in front of the closed eyes. Observe this space without any analysis or judgement. Try to enter that infinite space which has neither dimension nor colour. During the practice, various colours, forms or illumination may appear. This may be due to physiological fluctuations in the body, emotional suppression, or the release of old samskaras or impressions stored in the subconscious mind as archetypes. When these samskaras are released, they emerge in the form of thoughts, visions, dreams and emotional expressions.

Remain with your eyes closed and be aware of the inner space.

This is the akasha of chitta, the space of the mind or consciousness.

Simply observe whatever appears there, whether darkness, light or colour; a tree, flower, human being, photo, painting or statue. Just keep the eyes closed and let the visions come. They may be static or changing. Keep on watching whatever arises in your mental space, whether pleasant or unpleasant. You don't have to judge or discriminate. Just observe.

Stage two: single vision

Remember to keep the eyes closed. Do not open them until I ask you to.

Keep the body steady and still, like a statue. As the body becomes immobile, the inner vision moves and changes less.

Sometimes one form will remain for some time and then take another shape, or it may keep changing continuously.

Go on watching your mental space until your eyes and eyelids become more relaxed, and the visions become fewer.

Now with the eyes still closed, try to steady your vision and focus on one object of your choice, whatever you can comfortably maintain.

Amongst all the thousands of visual objects, choose one which you can continue to focus on: an image of your gum, a picture, statue, person, plant, leaf, flower, painting, colour, darkness or light. Choose anything which you can pleasantly and comfortably maintain in your chidakasha, in front of your closed eyes.

Try to witness the vision you have chosen, whether it continues or disappears.

Keep the same vision continuously. It should not come in any other form. For instance, if you are trying to see your guru sitting in a meditative pose, then do not accept his standing form. If a vision comes of him talking to you or blessing you, still try to return to the same vision of him sitting in a meditative pose. Continue visualizing whatever you have chosen and reject all other forms.

Try to make the vision as real as the material object, just as real as if you were looking at it with your eyes open.

Stage three: infinite space

Now, when the vision becomes as steady, firm and clear as normal reality, you should then try to remove it. Become visionless. Do not visualize anything. Just become aware of the infinite, inner space.

Infinity is neither dark nor light. It has no colour, form or dimension. Try to find that infinite, expansive space by awakening ajna chakra, the guru chakra. Now, from this space, you must come back to your external awareness. Become aware of your physical body and anything you may be feeling, whether physical, mental or emotional, comfortable or uncomfortable, pleasant or unpleasant, calm or disturbed. Just become aware of whatever you are feeling. Then become aware of yourself practising chidakasha dharana, of the people and the room surrounding you. Become aware of your whole environment. Now, chant Om three times.

Inhale deeply and exhale, chanting Omm, Omm, Omm. Gradually move the physical body and open your eyes.

N.B. By the practice of chidakasha dharana, hundreds of divine powers can be derived, but the most important is the achievement of the state of meditation. Many other faculties of the mind open, even before the state of meditation is reached. They are called siddhis or powers, and you have to bypass them if you wish to achieve the final state of meditation. If you get lost in those siddhis, then the actual state of meditation will not be achieved. So the siddhis are not to be practised or taught. They are to be safeguarded and used only for the achievement of meditation.



:)
TI
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Yogsadhak

USA
17 Posts

Posted - Mar 17 2010 :  1:57:04 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yogsadhak's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Hi :)
Is this an acurate description of the practice of Chidakasha Dharana?:

link: http://www.yogamag.net/archives/198...hidcla.shtml

quote:

The practice of chidakasha dharana
Chidakasha dharana is a very sacred and secret technique of tantra. It leads to the state of meditation and tranquillity of mind. It also balances the emotions and creates equilibrium in the physical body. Chidakasha dharana is concentration and contemplation on the inner space which is neither physiological nor psychological.

Stage one: letting the visions come

Now, please get ready for the practice of chidakasha dharana.

Sit in any comfortable meditative posture with your eyes closed.

Try to visualize the space in front of the closed eyes. Observe this space without any analysis or judgement. Try to enter that infinite space which has neither dimension nor colour. During the practice, various colours, forms or illumination may appear. This may be due to physiological fluctuations in the body, emotional suppression, or the release of old samskaras or impressions stored in the subconscious mind as archetypes. When these samskaras are released, they emerge in the form of thoughts, visions, dreams and emotional expressions.

Remain with your eyes closed and be aware of the inner space.

This is the akasha of chitta, the space of the mind or consciousness.

Simply observe whatever appears there, whether darkness, light or colour; a tree, flower, human being, photo, painting or statue. Just keep the eyes closed and let the visions come. They may be static or changing. Keep on watching whatever arises in your mental space, whether pleasant or unpleasant. You don't have to judge or discriminate. Just observe.

Stage two: single vision

Remember to keep the eyes closed. Do not open them until I ask you to.

Keep the body steady and still, like a statue. As the body becomes immobile, the inner vision moves and changes less.

Sometimes one form will remain for some time and then take another shape, or it may keep changing continuously.

Go on watching your mental space until your eyes and eyelids become more relaxed, and the visions become fewer.

Now with the eyes still closed, try to steady your vision and focus on one object of your choice, whatever you can comfortably maintain.

Amongst all the thousands of visual objects, choose one which you can continue to focus on: an image of your gum, a picture, statue, person, plant, leaf, flower, painting, colour, darkness or light. Choose anything which you can pleasantly and comfortably maintain in your chidakasha, in front of your closed eyes.

Try to witness the vision you have chosen, whether it continues or disappears.

Keep the same vision continuously. It should not come in any other form. For instance, if you are trying to see your guru sitting in a meditative pose, then do not accept his standing form. If a vision comes of him talking to you or blessing you, still try to return to the same vision of him sitting in a meditative pose. Continue visualizing whatever you have chosen and reject all other forms.

Try to make the vision as real as the material object, just as real as if you were looking at it with your eyes open.

Stage three: infinite space

Now, when the vision becomes as steady, firm and clear as normal reality, you should then try to remove it. Become visionless. Do not visualize anything. Just become aware of the infinite, inner space.

Infinity is neither dark nor light. It has no colour, form or dimension. Try to find that infinite, expansive space by awakening ajna chakra, the guru chakra. Now, from this space, you must come back to your external awareness. Become aware of your physical body and anything you may be feeling, whether physical, mental or emotional, comfortable or uncomfortable, pleasant or unpleasant, calm or disturbed. Just become aware of whatever you are feeling. Then become aware of yourself practising chidakasha dharana, of the people and the room surrounding you. Become aware of your whole environment. Now, chant Om three times.

Inhale deeply and exhale, chanting Omm, Omm, Omm. Gradually move the physical body and open your eyes.

N.B. By the practice of chidakasha dharana, hundreds of divine powers can be derived, but the most important is the achievement of the state of meditation. Many other faculties of the mind open, even before the state of meditation is reached. They are called siddhis or powers, and you have to bypass them if you wish to achieve the final state of meditation. If you get lost in those siddhis, then the actual state of meditation will not be achieved. So the siddhis are not to be practised or taught. They are to be safeguarded and used only for the achievement of meditation.



:)
TI



Hi Tibetan Ice,
That was an excellent description TI,Thanks.

Do you think that this form of meditation is as effective as "I AM" mantra, or even more effective? In your experience?
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Tibetan_Ice

Canada
758 Posts

Posted - Mar 17 2010 :  4:43:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogsadhak :)
quote:
by Yogshak
Do you think that this form of meditation is as effective as "I AM" mantra, or even more effective? In your experience?



First off, let me thank you for pointing out this practice. I am visually oriented and I have seen many visions and I always see things when I close my eyes. I was actually very happy to see that somebody had incorporated 'scenery' into a viable practice.

I tried it for the first time for this morning's meditation section and this was my experience. (much to my surprise...)

Practice:
Prayers
Bhastrika 2 min
Spinal Breathing 10 min
Bhutta Shuddhi Mantra 3 min
Chidakasha Dharana 20 min

For the first part of the meditation I focused on the space around the center of my eyebrows and inward. It is easy for me to locate this area because many times I see a clump of multi-colored light there that, if I focus on it, turns into a compressed area of visions. So, I kept watching as the visions appeared, little scenes, objects in color superimposed over a black background. I did this for about 5 minutes or so.

Next I started to visualize a red rose in that area. I had trouble at first trying to decide how to make the rose. At first the flower was closed and there were a few leaves on the stem. Then, I'd switch to a partially opened rose. I kept remembering the "make it real" directive so I imagined the smell and the prickly thorns too and everything in as much detail as possible.

After a while I decided I liked the partially bloomed rose and solidified on that. Then I kept at it, making each petal very clear. Somehow, the rose wanted to turn white so I changed it to be white. Then I decided to give the rose to Jesus when I was finished with it, dedicate it to God. I kept visualizing the rose... As I kept up the visulization I noticed that my perineum was pulsing and I was approaching a more silent state.

Then, my body dissolved and I became a cloud of tingles! I just melted. I hit a very blissful state, it felt so good. Waves of a very fine whitish mist started radiating upwards and joy filled my being. Then the alarm went off so I gave the rose away and tried to focus on just the space for a few minutes before resuming my daily activities.

On the way back to my work station, I had several rushes and waves of joy/bliss/ecstatic conductivity. During just sitting there at my desk, I had waves of ecstatic bliss flowing upwards througout my body. My perineum was also pulsing and making me feel like I was about to explode.

It is now 3 hours later and the bliss/joy/ecstatic conductivity are still flowing. I'm so happy and I feel so good, right now. I feel like I've discovered a wonderful secret and it has led me to a very easy samadhi.

I like Chidakasha Dharana very much at this point in time. I like it because there is no letting go of anything, because it is effort based and involves concentration, visualization and willpower. I have never had much success in reaching deep silence or samadhi using the style of meditation which is "repeat a mantra, let go, repeat a mantra, let go". And I have always been troubled with visions and scenery. The general point of view in the AYP lessons is that scenery is to be ignored as it is the practice which purifies, not the experience of perceiving visions.

This is a very touchy subject for me. When I first started the "I AM" mantra 2 1/2 years ago, I would experience visions and even though they impressed the hell out of me, they are regarded as just scenery here (at AYP).

However, I too had trouble reaching that deep silent state because for the longest time I didn't get that you are supposed to think the mantra and then let it go, until it dissolves and then repeat. I thought the main purpose of meditation was concentrative effort resulting in a steady stream of single pointed consciousness being continually focused on something. So that's what I tried to make mantra repetition into.

During mantra repetition, the only times I would dissolve the body into samadhi was when I focused on the "I" in the "I AM" visually and held that vision for a while. You see, I am visually oriented. Some people are not. They are more sound oriented.

I am also more effort driven. I want to believe that it is by effort and willpower alone that I've succeeded in attaining samadhi. This is probably my personality defect, as the "letting go" is surely another technique that works (from my practical experience and many teachings) and one which stimulates kundalini as well. I mean, TM and AYP meditation is about letting go, so are most buddhist practices (accompanied by witnessing instead of participation). Personally, I think one of the most powerful practices is "sensing the inner body" which is "deeply relaxing the entire body and feeling the inner life force as one cohesive unit". This is a great form of 'letting go'.

So, in a sense, you are asking me to compare a 'letting go' practice such as the "I AM" mantra repetition with a 'sustained visualization concentrative practice' such as Chidakasha Dharana.

Chidakasha Dharana has it's merits and is perhaps very powerful because (I've read this in many teachings) focusing on the third eye is a powerful practice in it's own right. Yogananda Paramhansa Yogi is said to have said that just this practice alone (focusing on the third eye) will awaken kundalini. And, from what I've experienced, if you put your attention at just the right place behind the eyebrows, it directly stimulates the perinuem/kundalini. I even recall that Osho (I can't believe I'm saying this..) said that when one creates visualizations in the third eye cave, they will come true. So it is a powerful practice and not to be taken lightly. I had no idea that creating and sustaining a visualization at the third eye would have the effect that it did on me during my first attempt this morning.

On the other hand, and to take a different point of view, if Chidakasha Dharana is such a powerful practice and can awaken the kundalini post haste, then isn't that a little dangerous? I could argue that a beginner could well activate the kundanlini and not have cleansed any pathways or have enough witnessing capability to withstand the onslaught of massive currents. Shouldn't a person first learn discipline, cleanse the pathways, take it slow and steady and prepare for the event rather than starting the fire and then running around madly looking for a fire extinguisher?

In my ephemeral final analysis, I would say that both practices have their application and merit. There are many members on this forum who practice the "I AM" meditation and some have claimed that the AYP practices have caused their enlightenment.

I thought I'd also mention, AYP has many valuable teachings and insights. One is "regular practice". Another is "Self Pacing". Another is "Spinal Breathing". Another is the concept that the concerted effect from linking practices together will result in more powerful effects than if one were to practice just one practice; performing pranayama followed by meditation results in a deeper meditation rather than just practicing meditation alone...

My two cents..
:)
TI






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Holy

796 Posts

Posted - Mar 17 2010 :  6:18:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Holy's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
some more cents..

@Yogsadhak

your question is nearly unanswerable. The reason is, you have to find someone, who has let's say 10 bodies with the exact same karmic obstructions and this some1 has practiced 10 different kind of techniques/combos within each body and after e.g. 20 years tells you what did what and which one was more effective.

Even this kind of analysis would not give you a clue about how effetive the technique/combo would be with your special karmic obstructions in your body in this timespace.

In my experience, when it comes to this, you can't rely on others. You can collect hints or trust some1 or you can test for yourelf what works and what not.

First hint for you to test and to verify your own:

- there is "thinking, believing what is true/good/best/etc."

and

- there is "what is happening"

the 2nd happens anyway, the first just tries to make something out of it. You can drop the first, the second still happens. But the second you can't drop. This can help to see more clearly what is true and what not.

AYP and its system has not much to do with the first point. It is the observation of Yogani from 40+ years of daily practice. It is his offering and invitation to find out if it is working for you as good as it worked for him.

There are many invitations around. And then there is "you". Most of these invitations say: "the techniques will help to see the truth and to live out of the truth." Practice and see. And what to see? That there is no seperate you or that there is only you. In other words: nonduality, only god, that alone.

So the second hint is:

- does the practice or nonpractice or believe or whatever result in seeing the actual happening of nonduality or not.

If not, either the practice is not working for "you" or the practice is done incorrectly (for example not done consistently) or the proclaimed truths are not true.

If it is the practice, you know what to do. If it is the second, you can always come back to the first hint.

The practice/technique is only for seeing and living truth. This little "guide" may help to find "your" way or nonway.
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Yogsadhak

USA
17 Posts

Posted - Mar 19 2010 :  2:31:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yogsadhak's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Hi Yogsadhak :)
quote:
by Yogshak
Do you think that this form of meditation is as effective as "I AM" mantra, or even more effective? In your experience?



First off, let me thank you for pointing out this practice. I am visually oriented and I have seen many visions and I always see things when I close my eyes. I was actually very happy to see that somebody had incorporated 'scenery' into a viable practice.

I tried it for the first time for this morning's meditation section and this was my experience. (much to my surprise...)

Practice:
Prayers
Bhastrika 2 min
Spinal Breathing 10 min
Bhutta Shuddhi Mantra 3 min
Chidakasha Dharana 20 min

For the first part of the meditation I focused on the space around the center of my eyebrows and inward. It is easy for me to locate this area because many times I see a clump of multi-colored light there that, if I focus on it, turns into a compressed area of visions. So, I kept watching as the visions appeared, little scenes, objects in color superimposed over a black background. I did this for about 5 minutes or so.

Next I started to visualize a red rose in that area. I had trouble at first trying to decide how to make the rose. At first the flower was closed and there were a few leaves on the stem. Then, I'd switch to a partially opened rose. I kept remembering the "make it real" directive so I imagined the smell and the prickly thorns too and everything in as much detail as possible.

After a while I decided I liked the partially bloomed rose and solidified on that. Then I kept at it, making each petal very clear. Somehow, the rose wanted to turn white so I changed it to be white. Then I decided to give the rose to Jesus when I was finished with it, dedicate it to God. I kept visualizing the rose... As I kept up the visulization I noticed that my perineum was pulsing and I was approaching a more silent state.

Then, my body dissolved and I became a cloud of tingles! I just melted. I hit a very blissful state, it felt so good. Waves of a very fine whitish mist started radiating upwards and joy filled my being. Then the alarm went off so I gave the rose away and tried to focus on just the space for a few minutes before resuming my daily activities.

On the way back to my work station, I had several rushes and waves of joy/bliss/ecstatic conductivity. During just sitting there at my desk, I had waves of ecstatic bliss flowing upwards througout my body. My perineum was also pulsing and making me feel like I was about to explode.

It is now 3 hours later and the bliss/joy/ecstatic conductivity are still flowing. I'm so happy and I feel so good, right now. I feel like I've discovered a wonderful secret and it has led me to a very easy samadhi.

I like Chidakasha Dharana very much at this point in time. I like it because there is no letting go of anything, because it is effort based and involves concentration, visualization and willpower. I have never had much success in reaching deep silence or samadhi using the style of meditation which is "repeat a mantra, let go, repeat a mantra, let go". And I have always been troubled with visions and scenery. The general point of view in the AYP lessons is that scenery is to be ignored as it is the practice which purifies, not the experience of perceiving visions.

This is a very touchy subject for me. When I first started the "I AM" mantra 2 1/2 years ago, I would experience visions and even though they impressed the hell out of me, they are regarded as just scenery here (at AYP).

However, I too had trouble reaching that deep silent state because for the longest time I didn't get that you are supposed to think the mantra and then let it go, until it dissolves and then repeat. I thought the main purpose of meditation was concentrative effort resulting in a steady stream of single pointed consciousness being continually focused on something. So that's what I tried to make mantra repetition into.

During mantra repetition, the only times I would dissolve the body into samadhi was when I focused on the "I" in the "I AM" visually and held that vision for a while. You see, I am visually oriented. Some people are not. They are more sound oriented.

I am also more effort driven. I want to believe that it is by effort and willpower alone that I've succeeded in attaining samadhi. This is probably my personality defect, as the "letting go" is surely another technique that works (from my practical experience and many teachings) and one which stimulates kundalini as well. I mean, TM and AYP meditation is about letting go, so are most buddhist practices (accompanied by witnessing instead of participation). Personally, I think one of the most powerful practices is "sensing the inner body" which is "deeply relaxing the entire body and feeling the inner life force as one cohesive unit". This is a great form of 'letting go'.

So, in a sense, you are asking me to compare a 'letting go' practice such as the "I AM" mantra repetition with a 'sustained visualization concentrative practice' such as Chidakasha Dharana.

Chidakasha Dharana has it's merits and is perhaps very powerful because (I've read this in many teachings) focusing on the third eye is a powerful practice in it's own right. Yogananda Paramhansa Yogi is said to have said that just this practice alone (focusing on the third eye) will awaken kundalini. And, from what I've experienced, if you put your attention at just the right place behind the eyebrows, it directly stimulates the perinuem/kundalini. I even recall that Osho (I can't believe I'm saying this..) said that when one creates visualizations in the third eye cave, they will come true. So it is a powerful practice and not to be taken lightly. I had no idea that creating and sustaining a visualization at the third eye would have the effect that it did on me during my first attempt this morning.

On the other hand, and to take a different point of view, if Chidakasha Dharana is such a powerful practice and can awaken the kundalini post haste, then isn't that a little dangerous? I could argue that a beginner could well activate the kundanlini and not have cleansed any pathways or have enough witnessing capability to withstand the onslaught of massive currents. Shouldn't a person first learn discipline, cleanse the pathways, take it slow and steady and prepare for the event rather than starting the fire and then running around madly looking for a fire extinguisher?

In my ephemeral final analysis, I would say that both practices have their application and merit. There are many members on this forum who practice the "I AM" meditation and some have claimed that the AYP practices have caused their enlightenment.

I thought I'd also mention, AYP has many valuable teachings and insights. One is "regular practice". Another is "Self Pacing". Another is "Spinal Breathing". Another is the concept that the concerted effect from linking practices together will result in more powerful effects than if one were to practice just one practice; performing pranayama followed by meditation results in a deeper meditation rather than just practicing meditation alone...

My two cents..
:)
TI










Wow what a wonderful experience! That is strange that the AYP views of meditation experiences as just "scenery" is identical to what SRF(Self-Realization Fellowship)think about experiences.

It is definitely comforting to read Swami Satyananda Saraswati mention that in Tantra there are yoga practices to suit every individual on the planet.

I thought that in Chidakasha Dharana you just focus on the space behind your closed eyes, I must have been mistaken.
So you actually do shambavi mudra internally?
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Yogsadhak

USA
17 Posts

Posted - Mar 19 2010 :  2:37:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yogsadhak's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Holy

some more cents..

@Yogsadhak

your question is nearly unanswerable. The reason is, you have to find someone, who has let's say 10 bodies with the exact same karmic obstructions and this some1 has practiced 10 different kind of techniques/combos within each body and after e.g. 20 years tells you what did what and which one was more effective.

Even this kind of analysis would not give you a clue about how effetive the technique/combo would be with your special karmic obstructions in your body in this timespace.

In my experience, when it comes to this, you can't rely on others. You can collect hints or trust some1 or you can test for yourelf what works and what not.

First hint for you to test and to verify your own:

- there is "thinking, believing what is true/good/best/etc."

and

- there is "what is happening"

the 2nd happens anyway, the first just tries to make something out of it. You can drop the first, the second still happens. But the second you can't drop. This can help to see more clearly what is true and what not.

AYP and its system has not much to do with the first point. It is the observation of Yogani from 40+ years of daily practice. It is his offering and invitation to find out if it is working for you as good as it worked for him.

There are many invitations around. And then there is "you". Most of these invitations say: "the techniques will help to see the truth and to live out of the truth." Practice and see. And what to see? That there is no seperate you or that there is only you. In other words: nonduality, only god, that alone.

So the second hint is:

- does the practice or nonpractice or believe or whatever result in seeing the actual happening of nonduality or not.

If not, either the practice is not working for "you" or the practice is done incorrectly (for example not done consistently) or the proclaimed truths are not true.

If it is the practice, you know what to do. If it is the second, you can always come back to the first hint.

The practice/technique is only for seeing and living truth. This little "guide" may help to find "your" way or nonway.



Hi Holy,

That was interesting and well said. Thank you.
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Tibetan_Ice

Canada
758 Posts

Posted - Mar 19 2010 :  3:35:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Yogsadhak
...
I thought that in Chidakasha Dharana you just focus on the space behind your closed eyes, I must have been mistaken.
So you actually do shambavi mudra internally?


Hi Yogsadhak :)
I don't think I was doing it quite right or rather omitted a part. When I first tried the Chidakasha Dharana, for the visualization part I switched my visual focus to be looking straight ahead. I don't know if one can call looking straight ahead shambavi. Perhaps it is looking through the third eye just the same, even though the eyes are not turned upwards.

I thought I would mention this: At the end of that day after hitting samadhi during Chidakasha Dharana, I experienced a tremendous overload. My hands and face were burning hot and I started to crawl the walls as the evening progressed. My whole body felt like it was made of electrical currents and I had quite a nervous tension in the solar plexus. This overload was gone the next day.

I'm still trying to identify where exactly the eyes should point and where to focus internally (third eye sight). I'm not even sure what third eye sight is because I have three different kinds of visualizations happening.

The first kind is, without even focusing on the eyes because it doesn't matter, I mentally look forward from the inside of the head at the forehead, and there is this space which is rather large and I can faintly make out scenes. The scene is usually stationary. Many times there is someone sitting in a yoga posture in the space or on a chair. This space has the feeling of being very large, airy and very fine. It is like a mostly stationary place with little movement or change.

The second kind is to push my attention through what resembles a small colorful eye directly between the eyebrows. When I succeed in doing this to look at the outer world, people look like flames and all objects and scenery continually move like you are looking through a mirage. It is not easy to push my viewpoint out of this center and requires a lot of effort although some days it is very easy. But, maybe this is third eye sight? In this one it doesn't matter where the eyes are focusing, it really has nothing to do with where the eyes are pointing. The important thing is where you place your attention, that it is pointing out through that colorful eye.

The third way is roll the eyes upwards and try to look at the point between the brows, while relaxing the face. This makes the little blob of white light a few inches behind the center of the brow appear. It also feels like you are falling asleep and dreaming. But if I keep focusing on that little blob of light that appears there it becomes ripe with visions and images, kind of like a dreamland. Putting your attention on that area, behind the center of eyebrows and inward is also an area in which there is a little cave, and, it contains a direct link to the perineum. If you keep your attention on that area, the perineum gets stimulated (starts to pulse, emit ecstatic conductivity...).

So, I'm not really sure where exactly one should try to visualize the object in Chidakasha Dharana and I've been experimenting. Perhaps the instructions are accurate, that one simply looks straight ahead with eyes closed and visualizes the object right in front of your face at eye level. Perhaps the line of attention from the center of you head pointing straight foward produces a flow or current which then links the pineal, pituitary and third eye and activates all three at the same time..

:)
TI




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Yogsadhak

USA
17 Posts

Posted - Mar 20 2010 :  01:58:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit Yogsadhak's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

quote:
Originally posted by Yogsadhak
...
I thought that in Chidakasha Dharana you just focus on the space behind your closed eyes, I must have been mistaken.
So you actually do shambavi mudra internally?


Hi Yogsadhak :)
I don't think I was doing it quite right or rather omitted a part. When I first tried the Chidakasha Dharana, for the visualization part I switched my visual focus to be looking straight ahead. I don't know if one can call looking straight ahead shambavi. Perhaps it is looking through the third eye just the same, even though the eyes are not turned upwards.

I thought I would mention this: At the end of that day after hitting samadhi during Chidakasha Dharana, I experienced a tremendous overload. My hands and face were burning hot and I started to crawl the walls as the evening progressed. My whole body felt like it was made of electrical currents and I had quite a nervous tension in the solar plexus. This overload was gone the next day.

I'm still trying to identify where exactly the eyes should point and where to focus internally (third eye sight). I'm not even sure what third eye sight is because I have three different kinds of visualizations happening.

The first kind is, without even focusing on the eyes because it doesn't matter, I mentally look forward from the inside of the head at the forehead, and there is this space which is rather large and I can faintly make out scenes. The scene is usually stationary. Many times there is someone sitting in a yoga posture in the space or on a chair. This space has the feeling of being very large, airy and very fine. It is like a mostly stationary place with little movement or change.

The second kind is to push my attention through what resembles a small colorful eye directly between the eyebrows. When I succeed in doing this to look at the outer world, people look like flames and all objects and scenery continually move like you are looking through a mirage. It is not easy to push my viewpoint out of this center and requires a lot of effort although some days it is very easy. But, maybe this is third eye sight? In this one it doesn't matter where the eyes are focusing, it really has nothing to do with where the eyes are pointing. The important thing is where you place your attention, that it is pointing out through that colorful eye.

The third way is roll the eyes upwards and try to look at the point between the brows, while relaxing the face. This makes the little blob of white light a few inches behind the center of the brow appear. It also feels like you are falling asleep and dreaming. But if I keep focusing on that little blob of light that appears there it becomes ripe with visions and images, kind of like a dreamland. Putting your attention on that area, behind the center of eyebrows and inward is also an area in which there is a little cave, and, it contains a direct link to the perineum. If you keep your attention on that area, the perineum gets stimulated (starts to pulse, emit ecstatic conductivity...).

So, I'm not really sure where exactly one should try to visualize the object in Chidakasha Dharana and I've been experimenting. Perhaps the instructions are accurate, that one simply looks straight ahead with eyes closed and visualizes the object right in front of your face at eye level. Perhaps the line of attention from the center of you head pointing straight foward produces a flow or current which then links the pineal, pituitary and third eye and activates all three at the same time..

:)
TI








Wow! what amazing experiences! There are so many variations of results in the yogic science.

How long have you been practicing Yoga?

What have you been practicing?

What are your thoughts on Satyananda's Kriya yoga in comparison to Lahiri Mahasaya's Kriya yoga?
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Tibetan_Ice

Canada
758 Posts

Posted - Mar 20 2010 :  2:26:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogsadhak :)

quote:
Originally posted by Yogsadhak
How long have you been practicing Yoga?


I have been practicing many things including Yoga for about 43 years.
quote:

What have you been practicing?


My first yoga book was "The Complete Yoga Book by James Hewitt". I used to be able to do the full lotus and then go into the head stand.

I also got heavily involved in "Carlos Casteneda - Don Juan" and spent many hours gazing, searching for power spots, looking for my hands in my dreams etc.

I also always wanted to astral travel and got into Robert Monroe and Paul Twitchell.

Then I joined the Rosicrucians for a couple years. Then I joined the SRF for a couple years.

I'm also a Reiki master and have many crystals ( I used to cut and polish rocks when I was a kid).

I discovered AYP 2 1/2 years ago and have practiced twice a day, often more than twice a day, since then. I also do alot of other practices and try many things (like kunlun). It's like my curiousity is insatiable.

I have written about some recent experiences here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3691

You know, I'm not looking for any fans or followers and I'm not a guru. The more I learn the more I realize I don't know and probably won't know in this lifetime.

I'm currently reading "Wings To Freedom: Mystic Revelations from Babaji And The Himalayan Yogis By Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath" and I just finished the part where a guru manifests enough food for a banquet out of astral substance. That reminded that I also wanted to be able to levitate, become invisible and manifest objects from astral substance. I've always believed that these things were possible and that it's just a matter of knowing the right technique.

Lately, though, I'm trying to focus more on "the being that exists behind the eyes that is looking out and never changes". That and trying to consistently achieve samadhi, nirvikalpa or otherwise.

quote:

What are your thoughts on Satyananda's Kriya yoga in comparison to Lahiri Mahasaya's Kriya yoga?



Sorry, I'm not familiar enough with either of those versions of kriya to warrant commenting on them. I'm familiar with SRF practices but I never received the initiation. I'm also familiar with Norman Paulsen's (disciple of Yogananda) meditation and spinal breathing technique and I have the books by Ennio Nimis. Much to my dismay, it seems that every teaching has variations. It is hard to distill everything down to something that works consistently.

What about you? What are you practicing? What is your history?

:)
TI
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Yogsadhak

USA
17 Posts

Posted - Mar 21 2010 :  1:54:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit Yogsadhak's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Hi Yogsadhak :)

quote:
Originally posted by Yogsadhak
How long have you been practicing Yoga?


I have been practicing many things including Yoga for about 43 years.
quote:

What have you been practicing?


My first yoga book was "The Complete Yoga Book by James Hewitt". I used to be able to do the full lotus and then go into the head stand.

I also got heavily involved in "Carlos Casteneda - Don Juan" and spent many hours gazing, searching for power spots, looking for my hands in my dreams etc.

I also always wanted to astral travel and got into Robert Monroe and Paul Twitchell.

Then I joined the Rosicrucians for a couple years. Then I joined the SRF for a couple years.

I'm also a Reiki master and have many crystals ( I used to cut and polish rocks when I was a kid).

I discovered AYP 2 1/2 years ago and have practiced twice a day, often more than twice a day, since then. I also do alot of other practices and try many things (like kunlun). It's like my curiousity is insatiable.

I have written about some recent experiences here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3691

You know, I'm not looking for any fans or followers and I'm not a guru. The more I learn the more I realize I don't know and probably won't know in this lifetime.

I'm currently reading "Wings To Freedom: Mystic Revelations from Babaji And The Himalayan Yogis By Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath" and I just finished the part where a guru manifests enough food for a banquet out of astral substance. That reminded that I also wanted to be able to levitate, become invisible and manifest objects from astral substance. I've always believed that these things were possible and that it's just a matter of knowing the right technique.

Lately, though, I'm trying to focus more on "the being that exists behind the eyes that is looking out and never changes". That and trying to consistently achieve samadhi, nirvikalpa or otherwise.

quote:

What are your thoughts on Satyananda's Kriya yoga in comparison to Lahiri Mahasaya's Kriya yoga?



Sorry, I'm not familiar enough with either of those versions of kriya to warrant commenting on them. I'm familiar with SRF practices but I never received the initiation. I'm also familiar with Norman Paulsen's (disciple of Yogananda) meditation and spinal breathing technique and I have the books by Ennio Nimis. Much to my dismay, it seems that every teaching has variations. It is hard to distill everything down to something that works consistently.

What about you? What are you practicing? What is your history?

:)
TI



Hi Tibetan Ice,

The first book on Yoga I read was " The Complete Illustrated Book of Yoga" By Swami Vishnudevananda. Back then I had achieved many advanced postures and shatkarmas.
I've been studying/practicing yoga for about 14 Years, And like you the more I learn,the more I want to learn. More info later.....
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Chiron

Russia
397 Posts

Posted - Apr 02 2010 :  07:43:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Sometimes I wonder whether it really matters which practice we do, as long as the intention and bhakti are present..
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