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Jim and His Karma
2110 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 8:07:28 PM
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To those who feel they're not making progress, here's a small but extremely powerful adjustment to try. First, two very important cautions: it's not for anyone who's spent less than a year or so on AYP meditation, and it's not for anyone with overdoing symptoms.
Instead of "saying" the mantra, listen for it.
You'll find it much, much easier to lose the mantra, because it's far more subtle and less "grab-able". In fact, you may feel like a beginner again, constantly having to return to mantra. But returning to mantra is the practice, so don't sweat it.
And I wouldn't worry too much about going into "unapproved, off the map" territory, in conflict with Yogani's lessons. It doesn't contradict AYP at all....at least not if you've spent enough time doing AYP meditation that the mantra's "baked in" pretty well. Yogani notes that mantra gets more and more subtle and refined, and this is simply a way to encourage that process.
Finally, I won't get more detailed as to what I mean by "listen for it". There is beauty in simplicity, in spite of the mind's tendency to complicate.
Note (edited in): if you listen for mantra, but don't here it, that's a sign that you're not ready for this step. Go back to the old way, and maybe try again in another 6 months or a year. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 02 2008 11:54:31 PM |
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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 9:19:29 PM
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Hi Jim:
That sounds like great advice. I have been doing AYP Deep Meditation 2x daily for nearly 3 years, and feel as though my progress has been a little on the slow side. Having said that, my determination has never been stronger. I think your tip is just what I need.
Great to hear from you.
Guy |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 10:00:25 PM
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I've been doing AYP for about a year and a half. My practice is consistent in that I do DM twice a day (though not always for 20 mins), SB when I have time and asanas when I have time. I'm busy in school so I feel I can only dedicate so much of my time to spirituality exsclusively. I'm sort of Buddhist in that I try to make all activities spiritual practice (walking to school, dishes, listening to the teacher). I'm confused sometimes about Bhakti because it seems like everyone on the forums is so deep into their seemingly amazing and blissed-out permanent altered states of conciousness and although I am deeply grateful for the increased awareness of myself and feelings of peace I cannot say I experience "divine ourpouring of love" or kundalini stuff or bliss conciousness. My aim day to do day is to seek peace and stillness to keep my mind and body healthy. Lately I'm finding it beneficial to chill out on my attempts to be in the witness state because it was making me isolated from everyone outside and in.
Lately i've just been doing the practices and other than that NOT trying to be mr. spiritual. I know people will say "That's it!". I wonder if that is the essence of Yogani's teaching. Other than following Yama and Yimas he doesn't seem to stress the discipline of conciousness during the other 23.5 hours of the day. This letting go and just being myself outside of sadhana makes me feel less like "mr. spiritual" but happier. |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 11:17:28 PM
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I think I have advanced a lot since I began the AYP practices,(months ago), but I still lack strenght in many things, cause I can't let aside the red meat, and I think its like irritating me sometimes. also I can only do the practice once a day, cause I don't have time in the morning or at day, and in the night I do the practice for one hour to compensate the other half hour, I know I have to be more disciplined but sometimes is so hard, but I'm trying hard.
What happens if its just once at day and make it lasts an hour or more?
Does the red meat is affecting my nervous system ? I'm feeling that my body is like rejecting it, but I am a meat lover, and I can't help it.
Sat Nam
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Eitherway
What advise can those of us who swear by AYP give to those who are not making progress?
Of course, this quest is a marathon so obviously people need to temper their expectations. However, do people feel like a 1 year period of twice daily practices should provide enough proof and inspiration to continue further?
I know this (1 year period) might be laughable to those who have been practicing for decades but there is something about the combination of practices as well as rising of the spiritual tide that a lot of people feel that makes me think even this short a period will provide enough reinforcement to continue.
My personal suggestion is to heed the call to moderate or control the sexual expression of energy. Gradually, of course.
Please share insights.
take care,
Eitherway
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 11:24:10 PM
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quote:
I see some people here like katrine, anthem11 who showed great progress with AYP and speak of great experiences. I feel they are blessed to be born like that. It is definitely not hardwork alone. You need to have the aptitude to succeed in spiritual world.
Hi Near,
Like Katrine I have been meditating a lot longer than just the last 3 and a half years with AYP too. I started when I was 16, introduced to it by my dad. I didn't do it regularly at the time (wish I had) but definitely felt called to it and did it from time to time until I was about 20.
I took a long break, many years, not intentionally it just happened, as my life moved toward the world of sport which became my dharma. I always used sport to learn more about myself and to grow spiritually. In the back of my mind from a young age I was bent on truth, was very interested in spiritual subjects and knew my overall life goal was enlightenment even though I don't think I had any idea what that was.
Ironically later on, my quest to excel in sport lead me back to meditation mostly with the desire to improve my performance, but also because I always liked the way it made me feel. It started off once a week, then twice and so on until I was doing it most days. I did this the 6 years prior to finding AYP.
I found AYP shortly after the inner energies awakened. I was meditating one day using the guided meditation CDs I used to follow prior to AYP. I remember turning off the CD because I had this inner urge to go deeper than what I could do following the instructions on the CD. I started to focus internally on the part of me that Is. I searched deep down within for it, repeating "Is" over and over, totally not knowing what I was doing but following an inner call of some kind. The inner energies opened at once, pulling me inward with intensity, it was very startling, I had never heard of any such thing and had no idea what was happening.
Fortunately, I searched the web for info, wrote to two people who had information on it, one being Yogani. His reply showed he had understanding of what I was experiencing and he pointed me to the lessons and I have never looked back. I practice twice a day every day and I feel I have made more progress than at any time prior in my life.
This is probably the important question, are we making more progress than at any other time previous in our life even if it isn't as much as we like? Believe me, I would love to make more progress too, there are many steps Yogani speaks about that I don't experience yet. I look forward to 24/7 ecstasy and being perpetually immersed in unity consciousness. I can fret and think about what I haven't experienced yet and I definitely have on occasions way too numerous to count. In the end though, it always lead me to frustration, so I eventually stopped. I practice daily and live to enjoy life now and not at some distant point in the future when imaginary goals may or may not ever be realized.
I certainly don't always succeed, but I am happiest when I stay at least 10% under my limits in terms of self-pacing. I am a very slow learner with pacing, but when I finally got it right and although I still slip on occasion, I can enjoy peace and happiness to levels I never experienced before in this lifetime, so AYP has been an incredible gift for me.
Having said that I still get frustrated at times, judge others, complain you name it. I still suffer needlessly from my erroneous thinking, but fortunately I see improvement and I notice these things do not last like they used to last year or especially 5 years ago.
I hope something in this overly long post resonates with you. I pray daily for those who are making the efforts to improve their circumstances to receive grace. Nothing touches my heart more deeply than those who are making the effort to lift themselves out of suffering. My heart is with you, it will happen, it is happening even if we can’t see it, it just takes time to undo ourselves…
peace and love to you,
A
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 12:02:20 AM
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I have a lot of stuff....I still desire stuff...but AYP has made me more aware that I desire stuff...so hopefully by continuing to practice AYP I will desire less stuff ... so I keep practicing with the desire to desire less stuff...
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1cleverPretense
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 12:19:18 AM
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greetings all,
Just wanted to say hi and that this site (esp. support forum) rocks mightily. I do not have much experience with yoga/meditation other than reading some introductory works (Rama, Yogananda, etc.) though I seem to have a keen desire to somehow begin regular practice as it seems to me to be of such extreme benefit. However, (here comes the whining) I don't think I have sufficient understanding of where or how to start yet. Also, it would be nice to have some group support which hopefully shall be the case with you guys.
I stumbled upon this site as a link while visiting another yoga site. From what I see so far I believe that I have found a home as the majority of posts seem to be what I have been searching for on other sites, namely, support in self-development.
I am about to order the Easy Lessons book on amazon. Am I correct in presuming this to be the book which would fit a beginner best? Also, is there a beneficial order by which the other works should be read and put into practice? And if by chance anyone knows of a decent meditation/study group in the L.A. area, please let me know as there are a lot of groups here that just seem .. I don't know.. too dogmatic and/or ritualized which turns me off.
I appreciate any helpful response(s).
Be Well
sf |
Edited by - 1cleverPretense on Oct 03 2008 03:01:58 AM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 01:28:55 AM
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Hi Jim and Welcome back to the forum!
and Welcome, 1CleverPretense!
Yes, that's the book to start with, and read the lessons in order. Just reading the first 3-4 lessons would get you started off quickly and safely.
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 06:40:40 AM
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For me it is not so much desire that is the key to "progress". There is a quality that, for me, it's far more important: a certainty, a trust. I know I am already there, I know I am making progress, I know it in my heart. It is like trusting your heart or intuition or god or whatever works for you (that "feeling" inside you) is what matters. That is always been in you and always will be, no need for concepts or ideas of yoga, or god or enlightment. Children can have it strongly and have no ideas about it. It's that subtle and sacred communication you have in the depths of yourself, every moment of your life, that's important. If you have that (and you do), you don't even ask or look for progress in your life. That for me sounds like a struggle you are having with god or reality or whatever, a symptom of lack of trust or faith. It is a cliche but I find it true: the truth is in your heart. @Seek and you shall find", and trust this to be true.
Of course this does not mean to be passive. Quite the contratry: "to seek" is a very active process.
To me it happens many times that I find out confirmations for what I am feeling after I feel things. In yoga was this. I have been feeeling quite ill and out of balance for months/years. In the recent past I started thinking about meditation, quite spontaneously. And started doing it as well spontaneously, not following any book, just ideas I had about what meditation was. It started happening to me what later I learned from this site to be"automatic yoga". I did not know what it was then, but still it happened. So, I kept searching for answers to what was happening to me. Shortly after I found this site and by reading the lessons and forums I knew I found what I was looking for. I started deep meditation and it helped me termendously. So, for me, it was a confirmation that my heart knows already the truth and, if I just learn to listen, trust, and follow it, all will be good. This communication develops with practice, much like anything else - the more you practice, the better you will be at it. It's a spiral. But this quality for me takes as well the impatience that can come from a struggle to "achieve and attain" enlightment. I feel I am already there (although I am not, understand? it's just a matter of time - days, months, years, lietimes, it does not matter), I am actually certain of it, even more now because I feel I found the tools to do it smoothly, so I just enjoy each moment of it without any expectations. At the moment I am just grateful deep meditation gave me my most needed balance in life. For me this is enough at the moment. I know as well this is just the beggining so I smile as I enjoy the ride. Thank you yogani and all of you for being here. |
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atena
113 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 09:29:18 AM
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Reminds me of the song System by In flames. Part of it goes:
'Follow your instinct, It usually takes you home'.
I certainly hope so. |
Edited by - atena on Oct 03 2008 09:46:49 AM |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 10:34:26 AM
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| Thanks Katrine. That's a very good write up. I like all your posts they are deep and inspiring. By the way are you yogani's sister? :) |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 10:45:30 AM
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| Nice to read your story Anthem. In many cases that I saw, it usually takes time, people usually speak of decades. Thanks for sharing your thoughts |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 10:47:53 AM
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Hi near
I'm glad you find the sharings helpful
quote:
By the way are you yogani's sister? :)
No....'fraid not so blessed
But it's a fact that we are all sisters and brothers in here |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 11:01:23 AM
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Time...
Growing, evolving
takes time
Learning, living
takes years
Becoming, Being
is the same as
living life--
let it come,
just BE
Be
patient,
kind
and joyous.
Look for life
in silense
and
it will find you.
Michael
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 12:39:55 PM
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Hi All:
The great posts continue here. What an outpouring of divine love.
One of the key concepts that has been highlighted here is sensitivity to practices.
It is something we have all been aware of on one side of the center or the other -- either a lot of sensitivity to practices, or seemingly little sensitivity to practices (what this topic is about). In every practitioner it will change over time, depending on where we are on our path, and the interplay of our spiritual desire, practices, inner obstructions, self-pacing, and the course of our daily life.
Among those who make a sincere commitment to keeping up daily practices, the ones who are extremely sensitive to practices are quite rare. See here for for an example:
http://www.aypsite.org/160.html
http://www.aypsite.org/200.html
Likewise, I believe those who are extremely insensitive to practices are rare.
Of course, this may be a misnomer, since some who may land on either end of the sensitivity spectrum may discontinue practices and no longer be visible in our sample of practitioners. All the more reason to provide effective means for practitioners on both ends to move toward the middle.
What we'd like to do is continue working on both ends of the bell curve distribution of practitioners to provide means for everyone to move toward the center in a self-directed way: a reliable path of observable progress with comfort and safety -- a middle way.
I believe this is possible, since many (myself included) have experienced over the course of years and decades in practices that there have been periods of both high sensitivity (energy overloads) and high insensitivity (extended plateaus). With continuing prudent practice, both of these eventually dissolve toward the center, through self-pacing in the case of high sensitivity, and through time and adjustments/additions in practice in the case of high insensitivity. As our collective skill increases over time, the less will the extremes of sensitivity/insensitivity to practices be left unaddressed. It is an evolution in applied knowledge we are undergoing.
In other words, the bell curve is not fixed. It only reflects where everyone happens to be in their sensitivity to practices at a point in time. Indeed, any of us may find ourselves on one side or the other of the center from one month (or year) to the next, and we have the means for pacing the flow of purification and opening. The fact that we are able to consider both ends of the continuum of sensitivity to practices is a sign of progress. It means we have found a fairly reliable middle way, and are continuing to open practical doorways on all sides. Let us continue...
The guru is in you.
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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 1:08:59 PM
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Hi Yogani:
Thanks for the insights. I have a question: We know, that for those who are extra sensitive self pacing is in order(cutting back on practices) Would it be advisable for those on the other side of the bell curve to increase practices just a wee bit?
Guy |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 2:06:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by robertjames
Hi Yogani:
Thanks for the insights. I have a question: We know, that for those who are extra sensitive self pacing is in order(cutting back on practices) Would it be advisable for those on the other side of the bell curve to increase practices just a wee bit?
Guy
Hi Guy:
Perhaps, and with emphasis on the "wee bit" part.
The last thing we want is for anyone to rocket from one end of the sensitivity scale to the other end of it. I have seen it happen more than once, especially with those who overdo willy-nilly with pranayama, which often has a delayed and unanticipated result. The "wham" effect.
By "pranayama," I mean both durations and kinds (spinal breathing, bastrika and kumbhaka)
Having said that (on the hazards), prudently increasing the use of pranayama methods is one of the fastest ways to increase the power of meditation and all other practices. But it should be approached with care, taking a small step, stabilize for a month or two, and another small step, etc. And at the first sign of excessive symptoms (or maybe any initial symptoms), self-pace.
Increased utilization of pranayama in conjunction with deep meditation to dissolve an apparent insensitivity to practices is an area where research is needed, for two reasons:
1) It works.
2) With present limits in knowledge, it remains a risky approach.
With the development of more experience-based knowledge, the application will become more effective and the risk will become less.
Any new application, combination or duration of practices we have not engaged in before will be "research." It will be those who are experiencing a perceived limitation in sensitivity to practices who will be performing the research in this area. It's a tough job (there will be mishaps), but someone has to do it -- finding the road to observable progress with balance by which many others can also travel.
Welcome to the world of John Wilder. 
AYP picked up where he left off, and has traveled far. There is still plenty more frontier to explore in the realm of human spiritual transformation.
The guru is in you.
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joacub
Ireland
8 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2008 : 10:08:38 PM
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Hi, brian here. Im a member of the dublin ayp group(DAG!). Its my first post on the site.
Well, my daily practice has been, how should i put it, 'a tad lacking'!
Though my life is somewhat chaotic at the moment, i would sincerely like to commit to a twice daily practice at least for one year.
Loving the DAG! |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2008 : 10:25:15 PM
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Welcome Brian!
Once you start twice daily practices you will find they contribute so much to your daily life that you will gladly look forward to them. |
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NagoyaSea
424 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2008 : 12:54:46 AM
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| Welcome Brian, to the forum! |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2008 : 03:50:23 AM
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Welcome to the forum Brian
As you know the discipline of the twice daily practice can take some time to get established.
To help get this habit you can, for instance, as soon as you finish reading this post - just sit and do three or four Spinal Breathing Pranayama and say thirty seconds of IAM Deep Meditaiton.
By doing this you have honoured the practice.
Even if you do this twice a day whenever you happen to think of it, the practice will get rooted and become established. Even doing this amount will be of huge benefit.
Keep us posted on how you get on and the best of luck
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2008 : 04:27:04 AM
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Hi Brian
Great to see you here
Your intention will take you closer to a steady, consistant practise, and like Sparkle says - even a minute of your time that is spent like he suggests or just simply "coming back to yourself" for some seconds several times a day will make a difference. These moments will add up and are in themselves a consistant daily practise :-) The rest will follow naturally. Keep the faith!
All the best, Brian |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2008 : 3:35:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle
Welcome to the forum Brian
As you know the discipline of the twice daily practice can take some time to get established.
To help get this habit you can, for instance, as soon as you finish reading this post - just sit and do three or four Spinal Breathing Pranayama and say thirty seconds of IAM Deep Meditaiton.
By doing this you have honoured the practice.
Even if you do this twice a day whenever you happen to think of it, the practice will get rooted and become established. Even doing this amount will be of huge benefit.
Keep us posted on how you get on and the best of luck
thanks for that insight sparkle
we are love, we are joy, we are peace,
we are one |
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2008 : 04:22:51 AM
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Jim's posting,
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=3#38432
was a profound contribution, in my opinion.
I've heard it said that humility is possibly the first of all preconditions for joining with the divine. Could there be any greater humility than the awaiting or abiding and highly respectful listening practice that Jim has suggested in his posting?
Thank you, Jim, O thank you for this suggestion! As is stated in Revelation 22, "Look, I am coming soon, and my reward is with me, to repay everyone as their deeds deserve."
Yogani, I hope Jim's insight makes it into the next volume of Easy Lessons.
newpov |
Edited by - newpov on Oct 11 2008 07:22:01 AM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2008 : 12:59:46 PM
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A POWERFUL PRACTICE FOR THOSE WHO FEEL THEY ARE NOT MAKING PROGRESS
The late Ramana Maharshi taught the practice of contemplating "I" as the most direct path to enlightenment which is similar to what Nisargaddata taught. It was a version of this method that initiated the Kundalini awakening in me a few years back as I unwittingly contemplated the part of me that "Is".
Reading Ramana Maharshi's books on the subject would be best, but to summarize his method, the practice is to find where the thought "I" arises by asking who am I? Another way is to find where within that "Is" or "I am" arises. It is not meant to be repeated like a mantra, but dwelt on and traced to the source.
Once the "I", the "Is" or the "I am" is found and traced to its source, the word falls away and residing "there" in the feeling is key.
This is a very powerful practice, so perhaps for those who don't experience symptoms of going over, 5 or 10 minutes of this could be added to the end of their usual AYP sitting practices. If you don't go over easily, then you could also contemplate it on a couple of occassions during the day outside of the usual AYP practices.
The risks of this practice are that it can lead to going over and energy imbalances if done to excess, so self-pacing is key and monitoring for symptoms of "over-doing" is essential.
Nothing of course is more critical than maintaining a daily routine of practices like AYP which will lead us all to the same place in the end anyway.
Best of luck!
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Edited by - Anthem on Oct 22 2008 2:02:54 PM |
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To Those Not Making Progress
