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Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 18 2007 : 9:36:57 PM
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I don't know how the rest of you feel, but at some point in time I decided that I wanted to stop dreaming and that I wanted to live and experience what is real, what is actually in front of me at any given moment here and now.
I started to see my thoughts as mini dreams that my attention could get hooked into and taken on a little trip into a “virtual” reality. I noticed that when a thought or a series of thoughts "captured" my attention, that I entered their imaginary world. I observed that I even "lived" out the emotions associated with the thoughts as my mind went through the reactions that I imagined I would have if those thoughts were to come to really happen in reality. For example, I imagine having a conversation with someone who I felt frustrated with at work, I imagine what I would say to them, how they might react and then I notice that I actually have the emotions that I would have if this situation were to actually come to pass in real life. I notice myself having imaginary conversations with the person and most interestingly, the stronger my emotional reactions are to the situation, the more I seem to repeat the same imaginary scenarios again and again in my mind
So I decided that I no longer wanted to have imaginary conversations and associated emotional reactions to situations that didn't even exist yet. I prefer to live out and fully experience reality. How can I know exactly how a conversation will go or how others might react? I decided to stop speculating and to live the actual experiences (if they occur) and to trust that I would act and react in the most appropriate way needed when the situation presented itself.
Does it work? Certainly not every time, but at least now I am aware when I do it.
The exercise I have been employing to stay present is the same idea as Shanti's exercise of returning to the here and now when we notice we are off in thoughts. Every time I notice I am off in imaginary conversations or speculations I bring my attention back to experiencing what is happening right here, right now in front of me but the only difference is that I do it through my senses. What does the ground feel like beneath me, what does the air feel like as I breath, what do I hear, what do I see, feel, taste, smell etc. We can’t be lost in the mind and in the senses at the same time, I become attuned to presence through my senses, it is a gateway to stillness in action, this way I really live (and enjoy) what is real.
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2007 : 10:19:55 PM
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| Interestingly, I decided to do the same thing today. Mostly, to not allow my mind to follow off into trivial thoughts. It's amazing, you could be walking along a street you've never been on...and rather than take in your new scenery you'll be thinking about something unrelated and unimportant. There's good in thinking hypothetical scenarios, but I'm sure you know when it's useful and not. Turning attention to the senses and even to cosmic connection is very useful and challenging. |
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rkishan
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2007 : 1:20:14 PM
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| Excellent post! I guess this (living in the present moment) is what Eckhart Tolle's is teaching on his famous book, "The power of Now!". After reading this book couple of years before, I tried to stay on the present moment as much as possible. But it is extremely difficult for me to continue to do so. I might successfully do it for a day or two. But the worldly distractions are too much for me and I usually get carried away. I guess this is where pranayama and meditation will help us. I guess ultimately all of us need to get to a place where in we live in the present moment and not in the dreams of the past or the future. |
Edited by - rkishan on Oct 22 2007 2:08:46 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2007 : 1:53:44 PM
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What you are describing is sanity, a state very few people achieve.
You'll notice that as you taper off those flights of fantasy (it's natural to do so as you establish a stable witness via meditation...this is, in other words, a good sign!) that your energy seems to increase. It's an illusion...actually what's happening is that you're no longer wasting vast amounts of energy to keep that nonstop virtual reality game/dream going. You don't just invest your emotions in them, you invest your vital energy. You are creating a universe.
I've learned to catch myself as I do this (though it all blows back on me sometimes...all this stuff is three steps forward and two steps back), but what I cannot fathom (cuz my witness is clearly not stable enough) is how to engage in the world, with people, etc, without superimposing dreamy virtualness on that engagement. It's easier to clearly witness when you're quiet and alone, but much harder when arguing with your landlord or making smalltalk with a stranger. The complexities of real world interaction distract us sufficiently for that sub-conscious process to sneak back in. It's just as insane and energy wasting, and raises some troubling questions about yourself and your place in the world.
This is one of the reasons AYP encourages more rather than less worldly engagement. At a certain point (and I'm at it) it becomes hard, though, because you don't know who to be. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 22 2007 1:59:45 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2007 : 2:09:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
So I decided that I no longer wanted to have imaginary conversations and associated emotional reactions to situations that didn't even exist yet. I prefer to live out and fully experience reality.
Some corollaries to try, now that you've grown aware of how you're immersing in delusions (it feels great to have an in-body experience, no?), and are learning to refine:
1. notice how you superimpose value judgements over everything. Try being cold without interpretting it as a bad thing. Feel pain without being in pain. Walk through rain without scurrying for cover or fretting about getting wet (don't be defiantly, proudly wet, either; just be simply wet..register it and let it go). Register it and let it go! You'll find that the judgement comes only very slightly after the perception. All thinking and projecting comes a fraction of a second late. The mind is a post-processor of What Is. It only works at a lag, there is no mind or projection in real time - in the moment or in the perception itself. And this, if you'll consider it, is why the mind is an illusion.
2. notice how the next step (which follows quickly after you impose the value judgement) is to ignite either craving or revulsion. You want more of this, less of that. Turn-offs and turn-ons. And notice how this, in turn, launches the process you've already discovered. For example, you pass a pretty girl and the first reaction is to deem her prettiness a positive thing. Second step is to feel attraction. Third step is to launch a brooding inner narrative about your love life, charge it with emotion, and draw in previous memories, future hopes, current worries....oila, you're in dreamland. You've noticed step three. Watch more closely and you'll see steps 1 and 2. And you'll increasingly realize the truth that the mind only comes after.
The mind only comes after! The mind only comes after!
3. think of something or someone you love or have loved and refine that pure love in and of itself, without regard to the object of that love. And then bathe in it and gush it to the four winds
Lots of stuff like this is available to you (at greater depth and breadth than I can explain in words) when you have a solid witness. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 22 2007 2:20:39 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2007 : 5:06:59 PM
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Yes, Jim! What a great truth! The mind only comes after!
And Anthem, I admire your determination of not believing your thoughts anymore. But what you call "reality" doesn't resonate in me, not the way you describe it - perhaps there's a misreading here... I don't know.
Reality is not what is happening in existence whether we have thoughts going on or not, no matter if the thoughts are more or less accurate. Reality is not the situation going on in front of you, so it really wouldn't matter if you judged it or not. Reality is that none of that is really true. What we experience as physical facts in time and space is not REAL. It's the illusion. It's only appearing. There's no substance to it whatsoever.
When that is seen, there's no problem engaging in the world, no problem receiving scolding from the landlord or whatever. "Your" body only seems to interact in a dream world. Nothing is really that serious, nothing is for real. And the landlord is only a part of you being a bit unaware, believing HIS mind and thoughts. But even though it's not real, it exists. And existence is movement - action. And as such, it is beautiful. But in order to GET REAL, one has to go beyond existence.
It's just like The Matrix... If you believe that the Matrix is REAL - you die of the bullets when they come - you die both in and out of the Matrix (if logged on from the ship)! When you realize Matrix is FAKE, and you learn to read the codes (seeing the design of the mind - being an interpretation AFTER the movement), then you can move in slow motion and stop the bullets, and you have eternal life in REALITY. It's so darn accurate, that film... I LOVE IT! Yes, it's beautiful, not to be affected by other beings believing their thoughts. It's all fake, it's all YOU anyway since we're all One... And then compassion is the result. And the longing for seeing them waking up!!! Oh, if people could just wake up and SEE the unnecessary pain they cause eachother by beliving the Matrix is for real... When it could be a glorious playground full of joy and love. |
Edited by - emc on Oct 22 2007 5:19:22 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2007 : 8:56:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
You don't just invest your emotions in them, you invest your vital energy. You are creating a universe.
Great point Jim, I like the analogy of creating a universe.
quote:
but what I cannot fathom (cuz my witness is clearly not stable enough) is how to engage in the world, with people, etc, without superimposing dreamy virtualness on that engagement.
We all have our different challenges in the world, I find when talking to people that really listening and paying attention to them helps me stay present. It also makes the interaction far more enjoyable. It's certainly easy to think we could be doing something better with our time, I think this is one key thing that makes the mind wander.
In my case, eating is another example of an area that I was often prone to "gloss" over. Instead of eating and doing multiple things like reading or watching TV, I decided to really be present, enjoy the experience through my senses, every subtle smell, taste etc. It's funny how this might seem boring at first and there are times I just don't feel like being fully engaged when I eat, but for the most part it's my preference now, again, it's far more enjoyable this way.
quote:
This is one of the reasons AYP encourages more rather than less worldly engagement. At a certain point (and I'm at it) it becomes hard, though, because you don't know who to be.
I think that is one of the greatest teachings of AYP, to go out and engage in the world, not much point in achieving blissful states in a vacuum on this planet! In regards of who to be, don't be anybody, be nobody! |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2007 : 9:32:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
Some corollaries to try, now that you've grown aware of how you're immersing in delusions (it feels great to have an in-body experience, no?), and are learning to refine:
Great idea to add more depth to it. Self-inquiry and witnessing definitely becomes a constant, as in all day long, part of the process. Noticing all these subtle and sometimes not so subtle reactions of the mind and letting them go is such a rewarding process as it makes life so much more enjoyable. It helps us expand instead of contract. You can be sure I'll be keeping a vigilant eye open for my likes and dislikes and how I attach to them as they can impact thoughts and behaviour so profoundly!
quote:
You'll find that the judgement comes only very slightly after the perception. All thinking and projecting comes a fraction of a second late...The mind only comes after!
Sometimes prior too, but you're right never in the now.
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2007 : 10:32:10 PM
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Very true points EMC, probably a poor choice of word on my part to distinguish between our interpretive thoughts (and corresponding emotional reactions) of physicality and our actual sensory experience of physicality.
I agree, when you get down to it nothing is real but couldn't we also say it is all completely real until it's not? My definition of what is real has certainly changed over time. I'm pretty sure I remember reading that Pantanjali said at some point that the world was real, I'm not sure from what reference point he was referring from? Maybe he was relating in terms of all creation being manifested from the One/ source/ the divine, so real in that sense, I have no idea?
A
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Edited by - Anthem on Oct 22 2007 10:34:03 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Oct 23 2007 : 03:50:15 AM
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It is said that emptiness is not nothing.
A flower is full of everything but empty of a separate self, empty of indentification.
This is why a flower can still be a flower, and not be a flower, at the same time. When we lose the indentifications everything changes, and nothing changes, we are still looking at the flower but we are the flower looking at us also.
Now all that sounds too zen for me at this hour of the morning
Caio |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 23 2007 : 04:51:29 AM
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Hi
emc wrote:
quote:
Reality is not what is happening in existence whether we have thoughts going on or not, no matter if the thoughts are more or less accurate. Reality is not the situation going on in front of you, so it really wouldn't matter if you judged it or not. Reality is that none of that is really true. What we experience as physical facts in time and space is not REAL. It's the illusion. It's only appearing. There's no substance to it whatsoever.
Actually.....reality is always real. The realness of reality is not an exclusion. It is all that is. Everything is included. The illusion is only appearantly an illusion if we buy into the separateness of the thing (thought, object, image, emotion) itself as true.
As such - reality is always going on. Judging is not separate from it. What we experience as physical facts in time and space is very much real. It is permeated, made possible, by reality.
It is all substance
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Oct 23 2007 : 07:43:39 AM
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Same, same but different use of words and all depending on from what reference point it is spoken, as Anthem points out. If you come from only having the physical world as a reference point, it's very much a "AHA - it's not REAL" insight when the transparence of existence is "seen" (lack words here).
Sparkle, I loved that piece of Zen in the morning!
"When we lose the indentifications everything changes, and nothing changes..." Nothing in the appearance of the world changes - what changes is the reference point, thus everything changes. From this new (or actually only newly recognized) reference point there is this profound sense of what is real/one and what is fake/separated (all that has previously been experienced as "all there is").
It is all substance, or it is all nothing. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 23 2007 : 08:49:46 AM
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quote:
It is all substance, or it is all nothing.
Yes. Both.
A substantial nothing |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 23 2007 : 10:03:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
You don't just invest your emotions in them, you invest your vital energy. You are creating a universe.
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
Great point Jim, I like the analogy of creating a universe.
I'm not sure it's metaphorical. Apparently, we each create this one. All universes are dreamy artifical reality except for the timeless one in which all is one.
This is why energy keeps appearing to increase as you practice. As you stop pushing the river with all your might 24/7, all that previously wasted energy becomes available (and we mistakenly think we are cultivating or adding energy!).
quote:
We all have our different challenges in the world, I find when talking to people that really listening and paying attention to them helps me stay present.
Are you sure you're listening? Are you sure the entire exchange isn't happening internally? What does Out There mean, exactly? Who is talking to whom and who is listening? And, a bit less esoterically, to what degree is your subconscious coloring everything you take in? And to what degree are you responding from silence, rather than just the flashing thought narration that meditation shows us is Not Us? Can you, in fact, respond from silence? Silence is, after all....silent. It can inspire the noise, so to speak. But then it's still noise. And, as Yogani says, silence can, paradoxically, take action (that's what kundalini is, after all). But when it does, is there even the slightest resemblence between what you say and how you say it to the sorts of things you used to say and how you said them? Yogani says we bring our personalities with us. They (like the noise) are just more emanations from cosmic silence, they're not "bad" or "outside it all". But bringing all these deeper issues to human interaction creates for some very, very big changes, and one thing about human interaction is that it's largely instinctual, so there's a LOT of conditioning to cut through, and a good bit of confusion to the process. For those of a technical bent, it's sort of like Apple transposing Mac OS to UNIX....totally, utterly different in every way under the hood, but apparently the same on the surface.
quote:
In my case, eating is another example of an area that I was often prone to "gloss" over. Instead of eating and doing multiple things like reading or watching TV, I decided to really be present, enjoy the experience through my senses, every subtle smell, taste etc. It's funny how this might seem boring at first and there are times I just don't feel like being fully engaged when I eat, but for the most part it's my preference now, again, it's far more enjoyable this way.
You'd probably enjoy the writings of Krishnamurti, if you haven't already. He's one of the most articulate writers on this sort of mindfulness. Check out his book "think on these things".
quote:
In regards of who to be, don't be anybody, be nobody!
Oh, I'm real good at that, believe me. The problem is that more and more people are agreeing. And while I'm grateful for the ego friction, the result is decreased opportunities for engagement. Unless people are trapped with you in a home of office, they generally need someone to be something other than nobody if they're going to take sufficient interest to engage. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 23 2007 10:14:46 AM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2007 : 4:14:25 PM
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That's my first reaction as well, Jim and Anthem... I'm not so sure it's an analogy or metaphorical! This is just another way of describing the real vs unreal as presented by Barry Long:
quote:
Being spellbound by the world of the senses, and by a seemingly external reality, it is difficult for us to realise that everything including the universe is actually in the mind and that all is contained in one single idea/object called reality.
Here on earth, man is on the bottom spiral of the girdle and from there he has two ways of looking for reality. One is to turn his attention inward and look back through the human psyche, up through the girdle towards the solar and higher minds above - that is, through the object of reality itself. The other is to look 'out' at the apparent reality of the universe around him. He has been looking out through his senses in this way since time began; but as nothing in reality can exist outside the end of the spiral where he is, the external world that he perceives is only apparent, a relative reality which affirms its transience or unreality by disappearing every night when he sleeps or when he goes unconscious. Consequently, in looking out through the senses he has never succeeded, nor can he ever hope to succeed, in perceiving reality.
If the physical universe is not real, how does it appear at all, and appear with such convincing reality? The answer, in the first instance, lies in the extraordinary quality of infinite mind surrounding the spiral. Infinite mind cannot be 'seen through'; it defies perception. It is totally, absolutely, reflective. It turns the observer's vision, the eye or I, back on itself so that the observer sees in the reflection where he is now in the girdle of reality, which is where he is in the physical world. In other words, as man's place is at the bottom end of reality, when he looks 'out' at the infinitude of mind, he sees a reflection of the reality behind him - which then appears to be in front of him but in physical form!
It is like holding up a mirror and looking into it back over your shoulder. The scene in the mirror appears to be happening in front of you when really it is only a reflection of what is happening behind you. Further, what is approaching from behind seems in the mirror to be actually coming towards you from the front.
You are seeing the physical world around you in that way, at this moment. But the world around you is a world of sense. And in reality there is no sense to be reflected, and no sense in infinite mind. So the world of sense must be an effect of something between reality and infinite mind. It is. It is an effect of the sense-machine, which is in the psyche behind the human brain. The sense-machine is a psychic apparatus that makes our physical world - makes sense - although in itself it is an abstract part of reality, which means there is no sense in it. Every moment the sense-machine receives the ceaseless flow of reality from 'behind'. This conveys the abstract data of the idea of existence to the sense-machine which then converts it into sense and projects it 'out' towards infinite mind.
And as a coincidence I just stumbled over these lines of Yogani in the very first Main Lesson:
quote:
I confess to being an addict to this spiritual practice
game. It is an ecstatic spiral that pulls us out of our limited earth
perception. Everything will look different, first just a little, and
later on, a lot different. So if you are not wanting to become
divinely inspired, divinely addicted, better stay away. Because the
best means are here. If you set your heart and mind to it, you can do
it. Honest. And then nothing will ever be the same. You will laugh
and laugh when you see how it really is.
That Buddha laugh... How can you ever take anything seriously in this world? Only selfish, self-concerned limited mind is ever upset about anything! I still have A LOT of self-concern to wash away. But Jim put is so nicely: I'm grateful for the ego friction! It reminds me I'm coming home.
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Edited by - emc on Oct 24 2007 4:20:34 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2007 : 02:07:54 AM
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Hi
Barrys' quote:
quote:
One is to turn his attention inward and look back through the human psyche, up through the girdle towards the solar and higher minds above - that is, through the object of reality itself
One is to let attention turn itself inwards; to not look through or for anything at all.......this activity ceasing leaves attention with itself. This cannot be understood; cannot be seen; but it can and is lived. When all experiences are left to themselves, attention(awareness) is free to stay with itself.
quote:
Only selfish, self-concerned limited mind is ever upset about anything! I still have A LOT of self-concern to wash away. But Jim put is so nicely
Who is the washer, then?
How is she separate from the stains?
Could it be that this whole idea is itself the "upsetter".....the block to peace?
I don't know
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2007 : 02:10:33 AM
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Also....
It is impossible to be nobody.
If you're a nobody,
you are still somebody. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2007 : 05:29:02 AM
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Hi Andrew
quote:
An exercise to try- just say no to dreaming...
How about not saying no to anything?
Is it possible to allow everything.....and simply stay quiet.
To just be quiet.....while everything is going on.
Not to try (because who is the "tryer"?).....more.....to allow as an open possibility? |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2007 : 10:11:43 PM
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Hi Katrine,
Thank you for the words of wisdom, a very timely reminder of home for me, (it always seems to sound familiar when you hear truth, even for the first time). I guess it is mind trying to fix mind no matter how helpful.
It is something I have been becoming aware of recently, for me the word is acceptance and it is for nothing less than everything. Total acceptance of it all internally and externally, the "good, bad and ugly", it's all a part of me already, so why not? "Being" through it all and putting aside the effort, this is sometimes difficult to do... or maybe I should say to not do!
A |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2007 : 02:23:33 AM
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Hi Andrew
quote:
Being" through it all and putting aside the effort, this is sometimes difficult to do... or maybe I should say to not do!
Yes....
I find it always difficult to do. Because the nature of me is always activity. As you say, it is the stopping (not doing) that is so......challenging. Because it is the same as admitting to the fact (acceptance) that in order to consciously BE, I die to myself instantly .....every single instant. It is this total surrender to what is that is required of me. Any partiality will not do it. Everytime I try to compromise, I perpetuate myself - the activity. There is never any peace in it...
However.....the paradox is.....that in total surrender; everything is suddenly easy. I am totally held only in total surrender. It is pure peace.
To accept what is as the one and only authority is not "done" overnight. To let go is itself the journey. And not only that - but once seen, it cannot be "used" for later. The surrender is only total in each and every moment. It cannot be "stored". Total surrender is vertical.
It is .......in depth.
May we all sink together
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2007 : 08:35:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
However.....the paradox is.....that in total surrender; everything is suddenly easy. I am totally held only in total surrender. It is pure peace.
To accept what is as the one and only authority is not "done" overnight. To let go is itself the journey. And not only that - but once seen, it cannot be "used" for later. The surrender is only total in each and every moment. It cannot be "stored". Total surrender is vertical.
Very nicely said Katrine. Just drop it... whatever it may be.. just STOP and Drop it.. even the concept of dropping it.. drop it.. when in silence.. when you are home.. there is nothing but the NOW.. and the perfection of NOW.. nothing can touch that. Actually when you are in that moment.. you don't even know you are there till later you think.. WOW that was awesome... when you are there you are not analysing or making stories.. you are just present... absoulte silence.. pure peace.
Andrew, you are on the right track though.. This is how I started off too.. living in the Now.. when you realize you are in imagination.. stop and get present or what I called "center myself".. The fact that you can identify your imagination and know you are not your imagination.. you have taken the first huge step in the right direction.. You can even stop yourself at a moment you get very upset/emotiontional... and look at what is making you that way.. all you will find is .. "the past" (this or that happened, s/he said this and that, this and that was wrong/right) and "the future" (this or that may happen, s/he may say this and that, this and that may be wrong/right)... rarely (if at all) will you find the current moment that is causing that state. And the next step is to see.. if the current situation is causing this state.. that too is perfect.. why? because it is what it is. You have no control over it anyway.. and if you think you do (like.. well if I had done this or not done that.. I would not be in this situation.. ummm.. past!!!)... you are causing a restriction that is causing you pain.. when you accept the present and let go.. you will just melt away into the present and see the perfection of the moment.. you will also see.. YOU are not doing anything.. it is all being done to you.. even that emotion/thought that just came up.. you did not make it come up.. it was done to you.
At first it is an effort.. then it becomes a part of you.. and then it is you.. and then.. ??? |
Edited by - Shanti on Oct 26 2007 08:48:21 AM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2007 : 5:48:16 PM
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Nice posts, Katrine, Anthem and Shanti
I have very little to add at the moment, so I let the wise men formulate what I'd wish to express:
quote:
It is the instinct of exploration, the love of the unknown, that brings me into existence. It is in the nature of being to seek adventure in becoming, as it is in the nature of becoming to seek peace in being. This alternation of being and becoming is inevitable; but my home is beyond.
Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
A song came out of me the other day as I was vacuum cleaning at my work. Lyrics were something like:
I'm your mind
and I'm only doing my job
If you get annoyed with me
Please see I can't do anything
else
That's my design
Love me for what I am
And when times get rough
feel that jazz behind
It's a constant game
a constant happy melody
beneith it all
See me
Love me
Feel that jazz
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Eddie33
USA
120 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2007 : 8:19:33 PM
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worldy intereaction does indeed suck.
I think i meditate too much and i don't know who i am and stuff like that. and at the same time you feel how your suppose to be and your like cut in half.
I read that your just in a transitory state. You kind of just have to relax into it more and more to just smooth it out. Soon you'll be a personality but rooted in the beyond.
I find when I'm relaxed i feel like I'm not there in a sense. It's a cool not there though. It's as if I'm not waking the desicions. And thoughts are percived differently. It's hard to explain |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2007 : 03:54:28 AM
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Hi Katrine,
quote:
Barrys' quote:
quote:
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One is to turn his attention inward and look back through the human psyche, up through the girdle towards the solar and higher minds above - that is, through the object of reality itself
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Katrine wrote:
One is to let attention turn itself inwards; to not look through or for anything at all.......this activity ceasing leaves attention with itself. This cannot be understood; cannot be seen; but it can and is lived. When all experiences are left to themselves, attention(awareness) is free to stay with itself.
Interesting stuff. This got me thinking... we turn inwards, but not inwards and upwards? I assume that the spiral that Barry Long and Yogani both refer to in the quotes above is the spiral of the crown chakra?
Personally, I guess turning inward with the intention of abiding there in peace will naturally lead to the consciousness ascending to the higher minds which are located above the crown, so it's partially just a question of method.
I found this in one of Sri Aurobindo's books and thought it might be relevant:
(Letters on Yoga), Page: 518
That other way is the concentration in the head, in the mental centre. This, if it brings about the silence of the surface mind, opens up an inner, larger, deeper mind within which is more capable of receiving spiritual experience and spiritual knowledge. But once concentrated here one must open the silent mental consciousness upward to all that is above mind. After a time one feels the consciousness rising upward and in the end it rises beyond the lid which has so long kept it tied in the body and finds a centre above the head where it is liberated into the Infinite. There it begins to come into contact with the universal Self, the Divine Peace, Light, Power, Knowledge, Bliss, to enter into that and become that, to feel the descent of these things into the nature. To concentrate in the head with the aspiration for quietude in the mind and the realisation of the Self and Divine above is the second way of concentration. It is important, however, to remember that the concentration of the consciousness in the head is only a preparation for its rising to the centre above; otherwise, one may get shut up in one's own mind and its experiences or at best attain only to a reflection of the Truth above instead of rising into the spiritual transcendence to live there. For some the mental concentration is easier, for some the concentration in the heart centre; some are capable of doing both alternately—but to begin with the heart centre, if one can do it, is the more desirable.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2007 : 07:55:15 AM
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Hi Christi
quote:
Personally, I guess turning inward with the intention of abiding there in peace will naturally lead to the consciousness ascending to the higher minds which are located above the crown
Mmm...the way is always here, is it not? So...abiding within.....with no intention at all....seems to bring everything here. I don't know anything about this, Christi, other than the fact that I am not going anywhere.....I rest here; and everything is coming here....
It is as if....I have lost all interest in maps and explanations.....especially the complex ones. They don't do it for me any more......nothing but inner abiding seems important...
Sorry for not being clear....I don't mean to disagree with either Barry or Aurobindo....who am I to do that? No....it is just that the ....inner abiding, the silence here, is very informing......but I cannot say what it is telling... |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 11:47:46 AM
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Hi Katrine,
Wondering if you are able to share how your inner energy experience has changed and/ or evolved since you realized your true nature? Has ecstasy remained the same, is there more luminosity as you perceive things, has bliss or love and peace been more pervasive? Is there a continuing evolution of consciousness, are you still doing sitting practices?
A
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An exercise to try- just say no to dreaming...
