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johnjoe
Ireland
22 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 18 2007 : 10:15:19 AM
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Hi I'm new to the forum.
I was initiated into TM about 20 years ago. I have meditated on and off ever since.
My mantra is very different to 'IAM,' is it okay to change mantras?
Namaste,
John Joe |
Edited by - AYPforum on Oct 23 2007 3:54:55 PM |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2007 : 11:46:29 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2007 : 12:21:57 PM
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Hi John Joe, and welcome!
On changing your mantra, it will all depend on who you ask, and ultimately on your own feelings and choice.
You can guess what a TM teacher might say. 
In AYP, the mantra is your choice. Information is provided on the characteristics and strategy of the AYP mantra system. Also, a "heads up" is given on the AYP mantra enhancements and possible inconsistencies between other mantras and the enhancements, which may have a bearing on one's long term mantra strategy.
On the other hand, it is possible to use a mantra and meditation style from another system and take advantage of many of the AYP techniques without running into conflicts. However, it is suggested not to combine similar classes of practice (meditation, pranayama, etc.) from different systems in the same routine. This can result in a "doubling up" effect leading to excessive inner purification and the discomfort that can come with that.
"Self-pacing" of practices is always center stage in AYP, enabling us to undertake a full range of powerful methods in an integrated way, which may not be possible in more rigid systems. AYP is a progressive flexible system based on managing "causes and effects" in our routine on an ongoing basis, an approach that is suited for serious independent practitioners.
From the AYP point of view, it is always your path and your choice. If you are willing to take the responsibility for self-directed integrated practice, you can find a lot of help in the AYP writings, and in this forum.
One thing you will not find in the AYP writings is what to do with other systems of practice. It is best to go to the source of those for that. On the other hand, there are plenty of individuals here in the forum from many different backgrounds who may offer their own opinion on just about any aspect of practice, AYP or other. Maybe others with a TM background will offer a few comments.
Wishing you all the best on your chosen path. Practice wisely, and enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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johnjoe
Ireland
22 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2007 : 12:52:39 PM
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Thanks For your advice.
No I won't be asking a TM teacher!
In fact I haven’t been involved with the TM movement for many years.
It has become such an embarrassment, and weird!
Namaste,
John Joe
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thomas
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2007 : 1:56:16 PM
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Hi Johnjoe,
Welcome ... For me AYP is a much more complete, effective and open system than the officially sponsored TM, TM-Siddhi programs. This includes the deep meditation portion employing the AYP mantra and mantra enhancements which I have now been using for over a year. However, my recommendation is to choose one or the other mantra (AYP or TM) and not use both as the AYP mantra and TM mantra have different effects on the nervous system.
For me, the AYP mantra + enhancements (especially w/the enhancements) have been more nourishing to my nervous system and whole being than the TM mantra + TM enhancements I originally received and used many years ago. If you choose the AYP mantra, it is best to introduce the enhancements wisely as part of the complete AYP program according to your experience-comfortableness in daily life and the condition of your nervous system, utilizing the guidelines and self-pacing instructions that Yogani recommends.
One Note: Of course, there are different TM mantras that one can receive based on age grouping at the time of initiation I believe ... so I can only really speak of the experience with the one I received.
Thomas |
Edited by - thomas on Oct 18 2007 2:30:10 PM |
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johnjoe
Ireland
22 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2007 : 2:27:44 PM
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| Thanks for your help Thomas |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2007 : 3:57:39 PM
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| Hi John Joe. When I was initiated into TM in 1976 when I was 14 I was given the mantra 'i-ing'. I have used a few different mantras from other traditions over the years. I don't think it is important to keep that as a sacred thing. Use what works best for you is my advice. |
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johnjoe
Ireland
22 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2007 : 7:49:48 PM
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Thanks Balance!
After all It was an arranged marraige,I didn't choose Sarasvati! |
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glagbo
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2007 : 01:41:10 AM
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Hi Johnjoe:
I have a (independent) TM and TM-Sidhi background: TM initiation in 1978 and TM-sidhi course in 1980. I found the TM practices highly valuable over the years, but somewhat lacking, for my particular matrix of obstructions. I was not able to cultivate a sustained level of inner silence and/or more systematic conductivity.
A couple years after taking the same TM-sidhi initiation with me, a close friend of mine matter-of-factly stated to me that I, too, could become enlightened (at least first stage) with these practices, if only I could avoid sex (meaning passing seed) for six months. I have to report to you, that I have not been able so far to manage either feat in the last 25 years! Talk about youth being wasted on the young (in my case)!.
I have been experimenting with the AYP system a little over a year now. First, I initiated myself to the AYP mantra AYAM ala John Wilder. I tapped myself on the breast plate and introducedg the mantra there; after all, "the guru is in me". It has been radiating from there ever since, mostly during practices. Over the past year I systematically transitioned to the AYP practices. I have found the AYP mantras more comfortable (more “explained”), more balanced in their vibration range.
For me the key AYP elements that were missing from my previous practices can be summed up in the word "fertilizers". They came to me in the form of more systematic and streamlined AYP versions of various mudras and bandhas: Siddhasana, Spinal Breathing Pranayama, Mulabandha, Sambhavi, Dynamic Jalandhara, Heart Breathing (I do mostly a version based on the sufi zikr), Kechari 1.25., etc. I am also dabbling in Amaroli!
With these AYP upgrades/additions, I find my current practices more stable, streamlined for speed (with the requisite self-pacing), moister (a little more abiding silence, a little more global conductivity).
So for now, I am doing basically the AYP practices. Now and then I find myself into the TM groove, usually with a couple extra samyama minutes of the TM yogic flight Sutra, now that it is easier with more silence and conductivity. Great: there is nothing wrong with a few yogic hops here and there, now and then, for oldtime's sake.
Yes indeed, thank you, Yogani, AYP is rocking, .. er working!
Peace.
Glagbo.
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Edited by - glagbo on Oct 29 2007 11:35:31 PM |
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johnjoe
Ireland
22 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2007 : 05:07:22 AM
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Thanks Glagbo,
Sounds like you are hopping and Rocking alright.
Namaste,
John Joe |
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Gnosis
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 02:31:30 AM
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You can use what ever mantra you want, if you want to use the I AM mantra that's fine.
Mantras are pranic vibrations that are used to work on the nervous system and qi meridians, particularly the chakras. You can chant a basic mantra just for dharana (focus), or you can use the mantra for a dual fold purpose.
You can do japa (mantra repetition) to focus the mind, and to accomplish a specific goal. Sanskrit mantras are particularly effective, specifically bija(seed) mantras. If you want to learn more about mantras I suggest you look up Mr. Thomas Ashley-Farrand, he is the most advanced western practitioner of sanskrit mantras that I know of.
http://www.sanskritmantra.com/
I prefer the ganesh mantra. Not only because it focuses the mind, any phrase can do that, but it also energetically removes internal obstacles to your achievements. The ganesh mantra helps to unify the ego and turn it into a vahan or vehicle for spiritual attainment, as opposed to the ego being a stumbling block of spiritual persuits. But you can use any mantra of your choice, this is just my personal preference.
Another cool aspect of sanskrit mantras, is that they don't have to be used during meditation only, they can be used as an activity mantra throughout your day. When you are performing tasks that do not require your attention like walking, taking a shower etc... that is a great time to do some japa. |
Edited by - Gnosis on Oct 20 2007 02:47:14 AM |
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johnjoe
Ireland
22 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 04:06:04 AM
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Hi Gnosis,
Thanks for so much information!
When you say that you prefer the ganesh mantra do you mean ‘Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha’ or just the seed mantra ‘Gum?’
Can you meditate effectively with ‘Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha?’
Namaste,
John Joe
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 05:21:24 AM
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Hi John Joe,
Yes you can use the Ganapati Moolah (Ganesh) mantra for meditation or japa although it is quite a mouthful for some and the pronunciation takes some getting used to.I have given this to students in the beginning of their practices as it is specifically for clearing the mooladhar chakra.I have also used the Mahamritunjaya mantra for meditation also.
L&L
Dave |
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johnjoe
Ireland
22 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 06:39:31 AM
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Thanks Dave,
is that the mantra that goes like this-
Om Tryambhakam Yajamahe
Sugandhim Pushtivardhanam
Urvarukamiva Bandhanan
Mrityor Mukshiya Maamritat
I imagine that it would be quite difficult to meditate effortlessly with it?
L&L
John Joe
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 1:10:58 PM
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Hi JohnJoe,
Actually I found it easy to meditate with but we each are different I guess.Yes, this the the mantra I speak of.I actually went to Triambak when in India in 2005.There is a natural shiva lingam there and the energies are superb.The pronunciation is quite difficult and took me about 1 week of practice to even remember the words.When I was given intiation(and before I could pronounce it), I read the reads on a piece of paper and I was blasted with energy.My face was tingling intensely.I also had what I can only decribe as near death with it. I was at work in my lunch break meditating and I went into deep samadhi, so deep that my breathing almost stopped and my body reacted as if I had died.I came to with an intense startle.
The MMJ mantra has several uses as well as for meditation, including increased energies for healing,protection and is used for helping ones crossing over.
L&L
Dave |
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johnjoe
Ireland
22 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 2:09:01 PM
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WOW!
Thanks Dave.
Can one use it without Initiation?
L&L
John Joe |
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Gnosis
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 2:45:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by johnjoe
Hi Gnosis,
Thanks for so much information!
When you say that you prefer the ganesh mantra do you mean ‘Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha’ or just the seed mantra ‘Gum?’
Can you meditate effectively with ‘Om Gum Ganapatayei Namaha?’
Namaste,
John Joe
Yes johnjoe I use the om gum ganapatayei namaha, and yes, haha, it does take some getting use to, just like walking on two legs took getting use to, and look how you now do it with ease, without even thinking. I do this mantra all the time. Not during just meditation. Anytime I am just sitting there is a great time to do some japa on the the ganesh bija mantra. Waiting in line at the bank, walking to your car, waiting in an elevator, or repeating the mantra at night until you fall asleep. It is a great way to use the idle thinking process of the mind towards a spiritual purpose, just like how sex can be transformed into tantra turning sex into a vahan (the means of manifesting the thing which it carries).
The reason I chose this specific mantra, is that it is used to transform the ego from a stumbling block lost in the mire of mere fulfillment of carnal desires i.e. mating, eating, and other pleasures to a vahan of the dharma. The ganesh mantra is a very powerful mantra to transform the ego into a vahan of cosmic consciousness.
I think for the beginner, this bija mantra is quite useful, since at the beginning of our spiritual paths, the ego seems to want to fight coming into the light and leading a spiritual life, with the aid of the ganesh mantra, you can use the ego as a great tool to unite with the atman (higher self).
That is why in pictures you see ganesh riding a rat. The rat symbolizes the ego, and ganesh symbolizes enlightenment. That's what ganesh does; it turns the ego into the divine vehicle towards higher consciousness, a very useful thing indeed.
So instead of using a mantras as some rote repeated phrase to just focus the mind, I decided that I might as well use a real sanskrit mantra to transform my being. You can use any mantra you want, if you think the I AM is best for you then do it, if you want something else do some research and find the mantra (sound formula) that works for you. The ancient rishis and yogis spent thousands of years developing and refining the use of sound for spiritual attainment and healing, why not benefit from it. A mantra is like drinking water, something essential, but a sanskrit mantra is like drinking water infused with a healthy tea, it not only supplies the body with much needed hydration without compromise, but has the added benefit of the herbs that it is infused with.
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Edited by - Gnosis on Oct 20 2007 2:53:17 PM |
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johnjoe
Ireland
22 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 3:26:03 PM
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Hi Gnosis,
Thanks again.
At the moment I'm meditating with a Lakshmi Bija 'shrIM' which I pronounce as 'Shreem,' I know some people pronounce it as 'Shring,' I also chant it outside periods of meditation,and I love it's energy,and I regard Maha Lakshima as my Ishta Devata. Having meditated in TM for so many year on a Sarasvati Bija 'aing,' it's nice to really experience the energy of abundance for a change!
I'm seriously drawn to meditating with and chanting an esoteric Lakshmi Mantra 'Om Gum Shrim Maha Lakshmiyei Swaha!'
I have often thought it must be possible to meditate on longer mantras,especially when you think TM offer advanced techniques at a price like shree shree aing aing namah namah, if you got all these syllables you would have invested $16,000 or €12,000
Namaste,
John Joe |
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johnjoe
Ireland
22 Posts |
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Gnosis
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 5:03:58 PM
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Wow johnjoe, great link on the chakra mantras. I recently bought a book by Thomas called Chakra Mantras, very in depth study on chakra mantras, and mantras in general.
That's great, the Lakshmi mantra is great, abundance is wonderful. In this day and age, abundance is necessary be a great yogi, or as osho called this new yogi, zorba the Buddha, one who has roots both in the earth and branches in the heavens.
Zorba the Buddha is able to enjoy the spiritual as well as physical pleasures and pursuits. As far as abundance, that can manifest in a multifarious fashion, not just money. It can be knowledge, friends, spare time etc...
As far as money, well, you need money to be spiritual in the 21st century, you don't have to be rich, but you need money. Cannot meditate with an empty stomach or without shelter, and these things require money. Even intensives and seminars on spiritual alchemy cost money. So Lakshmi is a great help in this respect. I hate it when people say that money is the root of all evil, this is not true, the LOVE of money is the root of all evil, money is amoral, it's a tool. Just like a knife can be used to kill someone or to cut vegetables for nourishment.
As far as changing mantras, I recommend doing a 40 day discipline before you change again, it usually takes at least forty days of practice fo the mantra to bear fruit.
Good luck |
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johnjoe
Ireland
22 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 6:13:34 PM
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Hi Gnosis,
I really appreciate your help and encouragement.
I was under the illusion because of TM that one must only use a bija mantra/seed mantra in meditation.
I spoke to an EX TM teacher friend today,and she was explaining to me that the longer mantra will actually allow one to experience the various levels as you effortlessly head to the transcendent,and when you get there you'll stay there longer.
I love the double whammy of chanting the mantra outside of meditation periods as you focus on a goal!
Time to bring these ancient formulas into the 21st century.
Namaste,
John Joe |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 6:22:18 PM
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Hi JohnJoe,
All mantras can be used without initiation but in my experience they are more effective when given by a realised guru or with his blessing.I can give you initiation if you wish, please email for further details including a recording with correct pronunciation.As Gnosis corectly states using mantra for japa gives greater progress but you can also get further progress by chanting as fast as possible silently during sitting practice.This creates immense energy for purification although you may need to self pace.
As for TM I practiced same in the mid 70's and was given I-IM. I can tell you that the siddha mantras are much more effective and have cost me much less than $16,000. In fact my training has been cost free apart from my trip to India. I have been with my teacher for 5 yrs cost free.I received shaktipat in 2005 which I don't believe even the Maharishi has received and had some wonderful experiences.
L&L
Dave |
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johnjoe
Ireland
22 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 6:46:08 PM
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WOW!
I would love an initiation.
JJ |
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johnjoe
Ireland
22 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2007 : 8:19:53 PM
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Is the initiation something like a reiki attunement?
I’m a Reiki Master (I hate that term, but it just means that I can do reiki attunements!).
I learnt the TM puja, and often do a manasa puja of it, mainly as I can’t get a lot of the puja items here in Ireland.
Lately, I’m more drawn to doing a Shiva Manasa Puja, as I’m not really sure about TM origins etc.
Tomorrow I plan to connect myself back to source through reiki, as I begin a 40 day sadhana of Om Gum Shrim Maha Lakshmiyei Swaha
Namaste,
John Joe
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glagbo
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2007 : 04:00:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by riptiz
I received shaktipat in 2005 which I don't believe even the Maharishi has received and had some wonderful experiences.
Riptiz, would you please care to elaborate on that statement?
Peace.
Glagbo. |
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johnjoe
Ireland
22 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2007 : 04:22:15 AM
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Thank you yogani,
I wish to thank you for having such an open forum.
I quote from your welcome post to me!
‘‘From the AYP point of view, it is always your path and your choice. If you are willing to take the responsibility for self-directed integrated practice, you can find a lot of help in the AYP writings, and in this forum.
One thing you will not find in the AYP writings is what to do with other systems of practice. It is best to go to the source of those for that. On the other hand, there are plenty of individuals here in the forum from many different backgrounds who may offer their own opinion on just about any aspect of practice, AYP or other. Maybe others with a TM background will offer a few comments.
Wishing you all the best on your chosen path. Practice wisely, and enjoy!’’
Thanks to you providing such an open forum, people with lots of different backgrounds, and at the same time a common interest in meditation, are able to share their experiences. A great debt of Gratitude is owed to you, and I salute you.
Namaste,
John Joe
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On Changing Mantra
