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yogic_scenary
India
25 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 29 2024 : 3:53:57 PM
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I mean DMT specifically..not LSD..not mushrooms..or any other enthogens.
I mean seriously, what is going on? I still can't wrap my head around the intense power of Kechari mudra or the Amrita drip. But atleast it's been documented since time immemorial.
DMT is not a separate thing from yoga. It is part of the bigger truth same as yoga. I'm not saying one must have a DMT experience to achieve a state of yoga, but that is also what I'm saying. Yoga can definitely be achieved through it's kriyas but the ultimate truth of Brahman encompasses this molecule too.
Both Yoga and DMT shows us inner dimensions unimaginable to the lay man.
The above is just my opinion and I honestly want to know what you guys have to say on this topic. |
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TensorTympani
Sweden
100 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2024 : 12:50:15 AM
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I think there is some good evidence that dmt and 5-meo-dmt are endogenous to the human brain (search for "endohuasca"). So I find it quite plausible that endogenous dmt might be involved in yogic scenery. Especially ayahuasca has on me the effect of boosting all my meditation skills short and long term by increasing my learning capabilities. Aya works on me as "plant teacher" especially for mediation. Going through my normal sitting routine on aya retreats I permanently increased my meditation skills afterwards. In fact, that's why I started meditation in the first place. I was in stillness and pure bliss for a long time on my first aya experience, and I simply knew this state is natural which let me to explore meditation and eventually discover AYP. From what Yogani wrote on aya and psychedelics it seems that this synergy might not be very generic. So if you use it, use it cautiously and wisely!
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yogic_scenary
India
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2024 : 10:03:00 AM
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Yogani is right to name this website 'Advanced' yoga practices. I was into meditation and yoga asanas before DMT and got into advanced practices post the experience.
And just to make it clear I am talking about vaped DMT. Ayahausca is really something on a different level, not to mention you will also be getting the effect of MAOI (Rue and cappi have their own spirits as well it seems). I have also heard, just like you may have experienced, that there is a net energy gain after consuming ayahausca, which is akin to my experience after DMT.
That being said, I am not talking about the energetic side of these substances. Energy work through yoga can yield a lot of ecstatic experiences and sensations similar or even superior to these substances.
What I am specifically talking about is the 'science' of DMT. In the sense, what is DMT? What happens when we consume it? Where do we go? Who are all those entities? How does things work in the DMT environment? Who are all those entities? And so on..
I'm quite aware there are numerous other forums to shed a light on such substances. However I feel yogis are in a much superior position compared to people who use these substances exclusively. Why? Because any advanced yoga practitioner knows in his bones that yoga is the real deal and all clever arguments are boneless against it.
Yoga is such a sophisticated science and when I smoked DMT, it seems there is a whole different dimension out there and do our yogic practices and science matter there? It definitely seems so, because obviously the DMT gods are definitely aware of yoga and it's intricacies. But the thing that really just is unsettling is the absolute alien nature of it.
DMT at the same time is showing that there is so much more to life than yoga but actually also saying that nothing really is beyond Yoga.
I mean nobody knows how the Amrita drip happens. It energises too and the energy of Yoga doesn't seem to have anything to do with the calories one consumes.
Yoga is just as mysterious as DMT. But in some contrast Yogic practices seem to have a taste of familiarity with the soul, while DMT/high dose mushroom seem quite alien. Maybe the DMT entities are the Gods Hinduism speaks of.. who knows really? |
Edited by - yogic_scenary on Mar 06 2024 4:29:59 PM |
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TensorTympani
Sweden
100 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2024 : 12:28:52 PM
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Hi yogic_scenary,
Yes, in the ayahuasca vine there are a lot of other chemicals (currently identified to be mostly a bunch of beta-carboline alkaloids) that are also psychoactive and also have strong physiological effects that are synergistic with yoga and meditation (such as stilling of the mind, slowing down of breath and hear rate). I recently tried out an ayahuasca brew in its pure form, that is without any DMT, and it was also very conducive to meditation. For someone who already has a strong meditation practice this might be even more interesting as the brew makes your endogeneous DMT-like substances last longer and accumulate, leading to very interesting scenery that feels much less imposing than with the conventional aya brew that contains also DMT which can be a distraction if the goal is to meditate.
The added benefit of a pure aya brew is that the ayahuasca vine and also the brew made from it is legal in Europe.
I have been scanning the scientific literature on DMT and 5-Meo-DMT for a while. My main take-away is that there is still very little known about the specific mechanism of DMT and 5-Meo-DMT in the human brain. There is some research on rats that's in support of the idea that endogeneous DMT is produced in large quantities close to suffocation, suggesting it could be related to human near death experiences. But rats are different from humans... Still all very fascinating!
However what I wouldn't do is attach too much meaning or importance to these molecules themselves. DMT is called the "spirit molecule" and 5-Meo-DMT the "god molecule" because it matches well the content of the experiences. But the experiences are produced by the human brain, and not by those molecules. These molecules obviously play a part in unlocking a certain mode of operation of the brain that normally is dormant, and that's very interesting. But nothing, I think, is contained in these molecules that isn't already in the brain. They just allow the brain to function differently.
So the entities and worlds seen on DMT, or the non-dual ultimate reality one becomes on 5-Meo-DMT might just be experiences produced by the brain. Scenery.
If these entities had some existence independent of the experiencer's brain, one would assume that information could be imparted from such entities on the experiencer that was clearly coming from outside the brain. As far as I know, despite the abundance of these entity encounters nobody reported an experience that would favor the hypothesis that these entities exist ontologically speaking. I'm even surprised by the fact that people are so fascinated by them. After all, in dreams we (at least I do) constantly talk to and interact with other entities (mostly humans) that are clearly fabricated by my brain, and yet I don't perceive them as such during the dream. They surprise "me" (one dream character with the "I thought" attached) with their actions and in conservation as if they were independent entities.
Another topic you mentioned is the ability of yogis to get more out of a DMT trip than a regular person. I think this is true. Since I started my meditation practice the psychedelic state has become much more manageable and navigable. There also seems some convergence happening between the psychedelic state and the meditative state. The psychedelic state just tends more often than not to become a meditative state, and the meditative state arising in my twice daily (normal=sober) meditation practice feels more and more as if I was micro- or mini-dosing. Giving that the meditative state now also starts leaking into my daily life (stillness and ecstasy), even daily life feels very often as if I was microdosing some psychedelic... |
Edited by - TensorTympani on Mar 07 2024 3:49:43 PM |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2024 : 02:17:57 AM
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quote:
So the entities and worlds seen on DMT, or the non-dual ultimate reality one becomes on 5-Meo-DMT might just be experiences produced by the brain. Scenery.
Right on. |
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TensorTympani
Sweden
100 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2024 : 1:05:53 PM
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It is fair to say though that entity encounters on DMT, or the worlds experienced on DMT, as well as the Ultimate Reality encountered on 5-Meo-DMT feel as if they were more real than real. That's very different from dreams which, at least for me, don't come with this quality. Especially in retrospect dreams don't feel that way, whereas DMT and 5-Meo experiences have this sense of reality attached to them even in retrospect. And it is this "more real than real" quality that makes these experiences difficult to shrug off as mere scenery.
Then for a yogi, the overlap between some qualities of these experiences and the daily experiences during meditation can easily give even more credibility to the idea that the content of DMT experiences is ontologically "out there".
If these entities and worlds existed "out there" they would demand a huge revolution in our understanding of nature, and so should require extraordinary evidence. Just like certain siddhis would (e.g. telekinesis, levitation, telepathy all would require huge revolutions in our current understanding of nature).
Without such extraordinary evidence it is to me more plausible they are mere scenery.
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2024 : 5:36:41 PM
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Hi All,
On this subject you may wish to check out these Plus lesson additions:
Lesson 307 - Hallucinogens and Yoga
Addition 307.1 - Dialog on Ayahuasca, Yoga, Dissociation and Fear
Addition 307.2 - Can Hallucinogens Help Health and Yoga?
Addition 307.3 - Getting Together with Old Friends Who Still Do Drugs
As documented there, in some cases there have been serious downsides. Generally speaking, the more advanced we become in the process of human spiritual transformation with yoga practices, the more limiting and destabilizing hallucinogens may be. They may provide some inspiration in the beginning to commit to effective spiritual practice, but in the end (and even in the middle) they can be a liability. It is a matter of purification and opening of the subtle neurobiology. Chemical inducements ultimately have the opposite effect.
Personal experience will guide in these matters. Then again, a word to the wise may be sufficient. 
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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yogic_scenary
India
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2024 : 1:23:59 PM
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Yes, there is endogenous DMT within us. Not only has this been proved, but there is a phenomena among DMT users where they have a dream in which they injest DMT and have an actual DMT trip. I can confirm on this because the same thing has happened to me too. And so it is said, that means a person doesn't require external chemicals to reach these dimensions.
My initial push into advanced Yoga was to recreate the DMT experience and achieve a breakthrough strictly via Yoga only. However as I dived deep into Yoga, DMT became a secondary priority because Yoga and it's science itself is so strange and mysterious.
Through Yoga we gain a knowledge of self and through self-realization we become content and happy. But it's just not so simple to integrate the experiences one has DMT as the 'self', because it truly is bizarre.
@Yogani - I'm on the same page as you, sir. I'm not suggesting the use of these substances as 'drugs' to achieve a particular state of mind or sensation/feeling, but contemplating on the mystery behind it.
When I was on a high dose of mushrooms, I tried the kechari mudra, and yes, it worked great, even though at the time nothing was happening when I tried the mudra when sober. These substances may provide a fertile ground for temporary yoga, but true yoga is about bringing the restless mind to equilibrium, which remains undisturbed from external events. It can done either via the practice of yoga or contemplation. Although it is said a combination of both is required to achieve liberation. And plus when these states are achieved sober, there is a greater sense of clarity and control which subsists even after the experience fades.
The new age ayahausca craze might have corrupted it's reputation a bit. Any tom, dick and harry is turning into a 'shaman'. You will find a lot of magic and incredible experiences with the more esoteric old shamans. Things like Telepathy to them is not worth a mention. The entities do assist them, and it does seem they give them information which may be a form of precognition.
What you may be referring to or expecting from the entities is 'new knowledge'/or something profound we don't already know.These dimensions do feel like repositories of vast amount of information. My opinion is that, to integrate this knowledge one needs to be on a higher energy level achieved via Yoga.
My personal belief is that, these dimensions do exist outside of us. They have laws which are quite alien to the ones we know so far.
How can we achieve liberation without perfect knowledge (also called Pragnana Brahman) , without getting into the root of THE mystery (which was already hard as it is, and now add such bizarre psychedelic experiences into the mix).
I also think Yoga can provide us with all the answers, which is why I made this post here. A Yogi is a universally powerful and respected person who transcends all dimensions. There have been people from other practices(such as Buddhism) who have consumed DMT and given their version of the experience. Yoga is the most superior practice on earth and DMT is the most superior substance we know of yet. A Yogi is grounded in THE truth, who can discern between the truth and illusion, So what does a Yogi see and feel when he visits these dimensions? |
Edited by - yogic_scenary on Mar 09 2024 2:22:37 PM |
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TensorTympani
Sweden
100 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2024 : 4:33:28 PM
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Dear Yogani,
It's a great surprise and pleasure to see you posting in your forum! I feel towards you deep gratitude and love for all you have gifted to me. The personal value of this gift is mind boggling...
And so it feels very odd that I find myself now arguing against your views on a topic that seems to become less and less important to me anyways. But here I go :)
I understand that AYP has been designed to be as safe as possible and as effective as possible for the widest range of people. And even though scientific studies on psychedelics look very encouraging regarding their safety and benefits, they might not be generally beneficial for assisting yoga.
But I think it's good to have a more nuanced discussion on psychedelics, given that a fraction of people discovering AYP might start out as "psychonauts" like myself, psychedelics have a tradition in many contemplative disciplines (so there might be more to them than just kindling excitement for such disciplines), and their legal status and public opinion is slowly becoming more accepting.
I think such a more nuanced discussion of psychedelics in the context of yoga needs to look at dose, set and setting.
You asked and answered in lesson 307
quote:
Are drugs an aid in ongoing yoga practice? If there is any initial benefit found in the artificial experience produced by drugs, then the repetition of that experience is not likely to take us further.
quote:
The few times I have been exposed to them in the decades since, they have been a contraction rather than an expansion. So, while such substances may provide some temporary expansion of perception prior to practicing meditation and yoga, they become a drag on experience after practicing meditation and yoga.
Is it possible that your answer is based on a recreational dose, in a non-specific set and setting?
In such an instance one might get lucky and get a glimpse of something that instills the desire for yoga and meditation. And indeed in this case a single experience might be enough, with subsequent trips being potentially distractions. But there is other scenarios, in particular smaller doses and yoga-tailored set and settings.
Set and Setting:
Instead of the word "psychedelics", you use very often interchangeably the terms "drugs", "chemicals", "hallucinogens". Surely, psychedelics are all of these things, but these names don't give full justice to their scope. The names psychedelic (mind manifesting), entheogen (generating the divine within) and plant teacher have biases towards specific set and settings. If one ceremonially ingests a psychedelic with the intention to explore meditation, for instance during a solo retreat, one will much more likely experience something beneficial to one's yoga practice compared to simply taking a "drug" casually recreationally without any specific intent.
Dose:
The way you answered the question suggests that instilling initial bhakti is the only potential benefit psychedelics can have on the yogic path. From my own experience, and from reading in other forums as well discussions with friends, there is an additional type of benefit when psychedelics are taken in small doses, microdoses or at least doses much smaller than therapeutic or recreational doses. Less can be more also for psychedelics. For such small doses the experience does not feel "artificial", rather it leads to an expansion of the "natural" meditation experience. What I noticed on myself on small doses: Inner sensuality is sharper, prana moves more freely and ecstatically, stillness is more stable and deeper. The occasional sitting practice on a microdose during a solo retreat has often resulted for me in 1) permanently passing the clunky stage of a newly added practice in a single sitting, 2) sensing how to subtly refine a practice, 3) noticing useless habitual extra structure I had unconsciously added to practices and thus assisting in permanently decluttering the practice.
I would not be surprised if even these positive effects (from a carefully chosen small dose in the right set and setting) will eventually fade away further down the path.
But until then, judging from my experiments, psychedelics can accelerate the human spiritual transformation when used wisely. That is, with the right dose, set and setting. Of course, these benefits might not exist for all practitioners. However, someone who has found to meditation through their psychedelic background could likely benefit from the knowledge of these synergies.
A message to fellow psychonauts stumbling upon this thread and curious about starting a meditation practice: brace yourself! On this website you find all the information needed to learn for free a complete toolkit of very powerful and effective techniques that gradually yet quickly make you capable to dive into bliss, ecstasy and expanded states of consciousness by just sitting down and using your mind, without the need of any psychedelics. I know it sounds too good to be true? But it's true. It's so beautiful...
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Edited by - TensorTympani on Mar 10 2024 11:28:51 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2024 : 12:19:08 PM
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Hi Tensor and all,
Interesting discussion.
I don't think we should rule anything out in terms of being an aid on the spiritual path. There are many things that I recommend to people as being an aid. Everything from dancing, to hill walking, to swimming, to creative writing to caring for children and helping out in the local community.
Obviously drugs (under any name) do not have a very good track record when it comes to people making spiritual progress and do have a proven track record of having caused harm in many cases. So, they should be treated with a healthy dose of suspicion. Over the last 30-years or so I have often heard people say "Well, that drug didn't work, but this one will". And every time a new drug comes out, the same thing is said. Then it changed to "Those were all drugs, this one is a medicine!". It wasn't. It was just another drug and quite a harmful one spiritually speaking.
So, when I hear people say, things like: "If we can change the dose, change the intent, and change the setting under which the drug is taken, it will work", it does sound like more of the same. So, I have to admit to being very cautious.
At the end of the day, the proof has to be in the pudding. The question has to be "does it work?". And in terms of spirituality, that would mean watching to see how something plays out over 20, 30 or 40-years. What happens when the supply is cut off temporarily? What happens when the supply is cut off permanently? What happens to the practitioner over the long-term? Do they become enlightened (liberated within all experiences), or simply drug-dependent for certain limited and temporary states of mind. It would take a brave team of spiritual/ drug researchers to carry out the experiment. People who were willing to devote decades of their life to the study. And I say brave, because if it did not work, they probably would not get a second chance in this lifetime.
On the other hand, there is an already proven path which we know works...
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TensorTympani
Sweden
100 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2024 : 12:24:26 PM
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Hi yogic_scenery,
quote:
My initial push into advanced Yoga was to recreate the DMT experience and achieve a breakthrough strictly via Yoga only. However as I dived deep into Yoga, DMT became a secondary priority because Yoga and it's science itself is so strange and mysterious.
That's pretty much the same for me. I think it's still very good to honor and talk about this initial reason, because it's likely that many other people could be motivated to get started with Yoga or AYP if they knew they make some progress in this direction, even if after a while their desire for why they want to continue with yoga changes.
From my own personal story I know that the promise of witnessing, or abiding inner silence in daily life, outpouring divine love, or self-realisation would not have convinced me to start a yoga practice in the first place. There is no way this could have been my initial bhakti, and so Yoga might have been lost to me if it wasn't for ayahuasca and my desire to recreate this state without substances.
An entry into yoga could happen for many more psychonauts if one can talk about it openly and non-patronizingly.
About the ontology of worlds and entities, you write
quote:
What you may be referring to or expecting from the entities is 'new knowledge'/or something profound we don't already know.These dimensions do feel like repositories of vast amount of information. My opinion is that, to integrate this knowledge one needs to be on a higher energy level achieved via Yoga.
My personal belief is that, these dimensions do exist outside of us. They have laws which are quite alien to the ones we know so far.
I agree with you, apart from maybe my level in how much I believe in the ontological reality of these things. I have a science background, where I learned again and again that beliefs, even very strong ones that we colloquially call "knowing", can flip if enough evidence accumulates. So even though I would currently say "I don't believe", I'm sufficiently intrigued by the little evidence and especially the prospects if it was true that I invest effort to find out.
In fact knowing the Truth has become part of my new bhkati. I want to know if e.g. telekinesis works, if these other sheaths of reality exist "out there". And I believe if these things do exist, it's just a matter of time and effort to accumulate enough evidence. I was musing about these things here: https://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic...PIC_ID=19561
where I suggested to build a community of "yogic scientists" to explore these things.
What you write towards the end of your post, I also recently read in a commentary of the Patanjali's Yoga Sutras by Taimni: Yoga will eventually provide all the answers to these questions, even if you might initially not be interested in them. It's a fascinating idea. He also says that all siddhis at some point will manifest as a ( potentially distracting) byproduct to reach Kaivalya.
I will report here anything that I consider a likely true insight into these matters, with the hope that they can then be checked by other yogis interested in such topics. Might take a few years though  |
Edited by - TensorTympani on Mar 10 2024 4:03:16 PM |
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TensorTympani
Sweden
100 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2024 : 12:58:08 PM
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Hi Christi,
Dose, set and setting are well-known crucial factors when it comes to psychedelics. Psychedelics are special drugs from a treatment point of view, because just handing them out like a pain killers would do very little or maybe nothing good at all on average. Studies where a single intervention with psychedelics relieve people from so-called treatment resistant depression, or alcoholism, etc. only work with such a great success rate because dose, set and setting are carefully selected. That is true for modern treatments and for ancient ones, like ayahuasca ceremonies.
Using psychedelics with these three factors in mind is also the best way to use them safely, and not just most effectively. Psychedelics are non-addictive, so there is no problem should anyone run out of supply.
Especially in the context of yoga the danger of becoming hooked on them is even smaller: On the one hand yoga practices allow one to access such states more and more easily without any psychedelic help, and on the other hand long term yoga practices automatically give rise to non-detachment to all sorts of temptations in life. In addition, self-pacing and observing cause and effect are a major factor in AYP.
I should also say that doing AYP sitting practices on psychedelics is not something I do regularly, just a few times a year. Like with normal yoga retreats doing this on longer cycles has been a huge boost for me. That's why I'm excited about it, and want to share it. Yet, I don't want to encourage anyone to seek out psychedelics for this purpose. It's an experiment (and depending on where you live not even a legal one). But if you use them anyways, you can adjust dose, set and setting to see for yourself if your yoga practice can benefit from it or not, and taste the pudding. |
Edited by - TensorTympani on Mar 10 2024 4:14:33 PM |
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yogic_scenary
India
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2024 : 4:04:11 PM
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The most experienced person with psychedelics in the public domain was Sir Terence McKenna. And he concludes in one of his books saying the only point of taking psychedelics is the communication one has with the entities. But he always hoped someone smarter/learned than him would be able to take away more from the trip or even bring back a novel idea from those dimensions.
He also shares a conversation he had with the ayahausca shamans - that behind all the magic, energy and power, the shamans do it to 'learn' about reality and understand it.
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Edited by - yogic_scenary on Mar 11 2024 03:51:42 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2024 : 04:50:39 AM
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Hi Tensor,
I was not talking about using psychedelics for treatment. I was talking about using them for aiding long-term spiritual development. We don't know, regardless of dose, setting, or intention, if there would actually be any long-term benefit to a practitioner spiritually. And we don't know what the long-term harm might be either. We do know what the long term harm is from recreational drug use.
In terms of what happens when the supply of a drug is stopped, physical addiction is only one aspect of it. Psychedelics are not physically addictive, as you say, but they do change the chemical makeup of the body. They also change the subtle makeup of the body, in terms of the chakras and nadis. So, if someone stops taking them, they will not be the same as they were before. And we do not know how that would play out spiritually over the long term.
There is also the issue of entity possession. This has been very problematic in the past for people taking drugs recreationally. How this would play out for people taking smaller doses of drugs, more often, in different settings, is not yet known.
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2024 : 07:03:37 AM
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I have over the years found myself in other astral worlds, totally alien to ours. I have never used any form of drugs. I have experienced "riding" (possessing) an eagle and suddenly seeing through its eyes. They have the ability to zoom in on what they want to look at.
Jesus once took me to see a dying galaxy and its rebirth. I solemnly swear that I am sane 
These are not journey "out" of body but a change in view point (?)
I am still unable to tell if these worlds and incidents are not mind creations that do not have reality outside of my own mind. I am simply giving feedback that accessing other dimensions /worlds is possible without drugs. It is not something I can deliberately initiate where I "see". I can control what I do once there.
Sey |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2024 : 02:58:44 AM
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quote:
I am still unable to tell if these worlds and incidents are not mind creations that do not have reality outside of my own mind. I am simply giving feedback that accessing other dimensions /worlds is possible without drugs. It is not something I can deliberately initiate where I "see". I can control what I do once there.
This is fascinating and intriguing, and it does not matter if it is mind play or some dream state. However you got there it obviously was meant for you to explore, once you find yourself 'there'. It could be everything or nothing at all. It is also obvious you have no particular attachment to this siddi, which is the proper approach.
After ten years of AYP, I have forgotten the body but have not been in the presence of anything or anybody identifiable.
edit: maybe Lord Shiva and Shakti |
Edited by - Dogboy on Mar 13 2024 03:01:50 AM |
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Deer
Indonesia
32 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2024 : 09:54:41 AM
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quote:
There is also the issue of entity possession. This has been very problematic in the past for people taking drugs recreationally. How this would play out for people taking smaller doses of drugs, more often, in different settings, is not yet known.
This is a great point, Christi. My understanding is that alcohol is called a spirit for precisely that reason. Alcohol has a long history as an offering to deceased relatives and other spirits. It tends to attract a lot of astral entities. I can imagine that other mind-altering substances have similar effects.
Regarding plant medicines, my understanding of a competent shaman or guide is someone who can navigate the etheric and astral realms and, in doing so, clear entities and provide a safe container for the ceremony participants. I am not aware of any ayahuasca facilitators in the US who are competent in this way so advise caution due to this issue. I know of a guide in Mexico who trained for over ten years prior to ever leading a ceremony. (This is not an endorsement or recommendation, just giving an idea of how long it can take to learn how to lead ceremony.)
Another side-effect of group ayahuasca or other plant medicine ceremonies is that the astral bodies of the participants can overlap and participants can tune into each other's trauma and actually take on energetic imprints that are not theirs. I have seen this happen with individuals who were not quite the same for years afterwards.
In the right tradition, and for an individual who is deeply called, the plant medicine path can be very healing and illuminating, but it is absolutely not an easy path to walk and does not offer any panaceas or quick fixes. I am not spiritually developed to the point where I can speak knowledgeably regarding whether or not it can take a person any further than yoga. |
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yogic_scenary
India
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2024 : 3:41:23 PM
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Fair point @Deer
I have read posts which stated that even the facilitators, whilst you're intoxicated on ayahausca, steal your energy and therefore diminish your (according to them - permanent) energy reserve.
In India involuntary shaktipat happens all the time. People give you and steal your energy(not always intentionally - it's their emotions and opinion of you which impress on you and you feel this when you're sensitive enough) - energy vampires are way too common as well, but in some sense it's fairly easy to get back to baseline - for one it may happen on a surface level, second you must be fairly grounded in proper spiritual practices.
But I have no idea what happens when someone does it when you are sensitive and deep on that level when on Aya- so be very cautious.
The thing about Yoga is - it's extremely grounding. All things which increase your energy through Yoga ground you as well. Kechari is pleasure, energy increasing and grounding. Same thing with the Soma/Amrita drip.
As for the argument that your can't hallucinate on Yoga like DMT - during certain full moon days, I have had some sort of closed eye visuals. And when the proportion of Soma in my body has significantly increased(specially the first time I consumed the Soma drip), it definitely feels like the DMT headspace(though it's blank with no hallucinations)- and with some work I feel, maybe, one may be able to breakthrough to other dimensions and hallucinate as well(the jury's out on this one).
And notice how I said it happens during full moon and Soma increase (Moon also being referred to as Soma). |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Mar 31 2024 : 01:18:10 AM
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quote:
The thing about Yoga is - it's extremely grounding. All things which increase your energy through Yoga ground you as well. Kechari is pleasure, energy increasing and grounding. Same thing with the Soma/Amrita drip.
As for the argument that your can't hallucinate on Yoga like DMT - during certain full moon days, I have had some sort of closed eye visuals. And when the proportion of Soma in my body has significantly increased(specially the first time I consumed the Soma drip), it definitely feels like the DMT headspace(though it's blank with no hallucinations)- and with some work I feel, maybe, one may be able to breakthrough to other dimensions and hallucinate as well(the jury's out on this one).
And notice how I said it happens during full moon and Soma increase (Moon also being referred to as Soma).
I, too, enjoy a full moon, if for nothing else than to howl at it, simultaneously uplifting and grounding. |
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yogic_scenary
India
25 Posts |
Posted - May 20 2024 : 9:02:27 PM
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Apparently in ancient times, it was full moon everyday, but the moon pissed off a God sage, and was cursed to wax and wane.
Sounds like you would have been exhausted if then |
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yogic_scenary
India
25 Posts |
Posted - May 20 2024 : 9:33:25 PM
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And also I just wanted to add one more thing which my dear Sir Terence McKenna touched upon.
That there seems to be some sort of 'synergy' (that may not be the right word, maybe 'compatibility'?) between the psychedelics and sexual energy. And all,if not, most of advanced Yoga deals with sexual energy.
This,as I mentioned previously, I noticed when I was on a high dose of mushroom and tried the Kechari mudra(stage 1). When I entered the mudra, bliss started emanating from my pelvis.
Most definitely my sober experiences of kechari have been far more enjoyable, but the question arises, why did it work? |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2024 : 01:33:27 AM
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quote:
Most definitely my sober experiences of kechari have been far more enjoyable, but the question arises, why did it work?
It works, both on or off a substance, because your body is matured, quiet, open. I personally have an ongoing discussion with myself about cannabis, and my long time use. I am not willing to give it up (when on it, Bhakti is off leash) but I have made changes, and continue to inquire about it, and always test myself, how true is that thought?
Much different than DMT for sure, but this thread is a blessing. |
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yogic_scenary
India
25 Posts |
Posted - May 26 2024 : 8:48:47 PM
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You're right! Kechari does work on and off substance, and also,you, albeit for a different matter mentioned Bhakti. That's what I believe was diluted when kechari worked on shrooms though it wasn't at the time working when sober..I suppose Bhakti which is a flavour of love is a major theme on shrooms which may have provided a fertile ground for the execution of such mudras (not to mention the other energetic aspects at play)..
My relationship with cannabis is a strange one.. anecdotally cannabis I believe is a supreme purifier.. post my opening of nervous system, my cannabis consumption has been fairly less compared to the kgs I have consumed a long time back prior to it..
These are the things I noticed on cannabis post my nervous system opening:
1) It pretty much kills any sensation of prana/pranic vibrations. I think it's suggested as a good anti-kundalini medicine for this reason. This especially I noticed on my visit to high vibration places such as temples. On normal visits I used to feel blissful ecstatic vibrations, but on cannabis, none of those - even though as you rightly put, I felt more Bhakti emanating from me.
2) it reinforces the ego. Sober when I used to read texts like Bhagavad Gita I used to be like "Wow. So he is a God. How amazing! How lucky are we to receive such divine knowledge!" Whereas on cannabis, I could hardly give a damn - this shocked me - I had to make effort to care and empathize.
3) it extremely purifying. I have noticed this prior and post nervous system open too. In fact it was partly because of cannabis purifying (along with the mad abuse of spinal breathing and blocking method  ) that I was first able to consume the Soma drip for the first time.
4) needless to say - it's very grounding. So grounding in fact that I used to go on and on with spinal breathing non-stop on it when I could barely go for a few mins when sober.
I only dabbed with cannabis for a couple months post my nervous system opening. After this episode was over, months later I found a small amount and consumed it and it felt so free,stress-free, grounded, happy and blissful I literally thought as I sent a sigh of relief - "Finally the Gods have answered my prayers!!! " - though I have felt the combination of all those feelings otherwise too, I think the extra added dopamine hit from the concentrated hash was the real push towards that ecstasy.
Weed too, same as DMT, is a mysterious substance. The first time I took a cannabis post the opening of nervous system I could feel two orbs of heat inside me as though they were rotating. One was at my chest, the other at my navel. And once I actually felt the 'spinal nerve' as a thin thread of energy. It started at my lower back and ended behind my head, it was a VERY obvious sensation - like I really had thought Sir Yogani was speaking metaphorically about it. Lol I remember even searching the forum then to see if this had happened to anyone else
In a TV show called the Magicians a person says - 'Life is raw. Most medicate". I think yoga rightfully combined with tantra thanks to Sir Yogani is the all-natural medication, like Madam Jana Dixon says - 'Kundalini is God's intoxicant.'
^This is why DMT is another mystery and a worthy candidate for investigation - it has ZERO effects on your mind whatsoever. Though there is a euphoric afterglow - on the substance you are 100% lucid. there is insane intoxication on mushrooms,lsd, cannabis and so on, but nada on DMT. Though the energetic effects of DMT may tweak your thought process or your mental energy temporarily, your mind is crystal clear on the substance. I repeat again - it has zero effect on your mind whatsoever. |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2024 : 09:38:29 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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yogic_scenary
India
25 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2024 : 7:33:32 PM
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DMT users mention something called as a 'Carrier Wave'.
The Carrier Wave is the eeeee tinnitus sound which one experiences upon consumption of a breakthrough dose of the molecule , and it is believed that this is what helps to reach the other realms.
This eee sound is nothing but the Anahata.
Hatha Yoga Pradipika states meditation on the Anahata is the highest form of meditation.
And my experience when meditation upon the same is that it completely purifies the nadi system like nothing else. It's supposedly the highest vibration, meditation upon which, your body too adapts to that state of vibration - I can confirm the same. |
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TensorTympani
Sweden
100 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2024 : 12:18:45 PM
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Not fully on topic, but I find it interesting that yogic_senary mentioned that cannabis pretty much kills any pranic sensations. For me it is the opposite. Even on a tiny dose (a tiny 5mg piece of dried bud from a vaporiser) ecstatic sensations become very strong and it requires some will power to not get carried away into some orgasmic reverie but to follow through with a meditation session.
With such a cannabis microdose meditation becomes very fascinating for me. The mantra and pranic flows apart from being perceived in more detail have the additional quality of becoming visually three-dimensional delicate and delicately moving objects, as if they are actual physical objects. Outside of meditation a lot of the other sensory input is also synesthetically represented three-dimensionally and visually when I close my eyes. For instance, if I concentrate on my hands (with eyes closed) I can clearly see them on a dark background giving off some blue-ish light. When I move my hands and fingers the visual image responds instantaneously as if I was actually seeing it. So it's not a conscious but an involuntary visualisation. I can even see my finger nails giving off a slightly different shade of blue. It's very weird. The effect is the same even if the hand is behind my back, so I obviously don't actually see it with my eyes. I think the ability to locate body parts (which is related to the sense of touch I guess) and maybe that nails and skin feel differently through inner perception became somehow represented visually, a form of synesthesia.
A friend who has also developed some ecstatic conductivity through AYP and also enjoys psychedelics, did not get any enhancement from this tiny dose of cannabis, but simply felt "stoned", which did the opposite of enhancing the meditation experience. It seems that everyone reacts differently to these substances. It could also be that I react unusually to cannabis because I only tried it the first time in my life after having developed some ecstatic conductivity.
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Us yogis need to have a serious discussion on DMT
