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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 20 2014 : 5:54:35 PM
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Hello friends,
I have been practicing AYP for 6 years.
I am afraid that I don't feel it is going well, and I have been having the heartbreaking sense that there is nothing left but to leave AYP, which I really do not want to do. I have so wanted this to work.
I have been trying and trying and trying, refining, adjusting, having endless little "breakthroughs" that turn out not really to be so as I end up at the same brick wall each time.
And I am only talking about the DM. I practiced SB for a long time and after initial difficulties in the first 2 years I settled into it and eventually found it the easiest part of my practice. I have experimented a tiny bit with Samyama at periods when I felt, hoped, that I finally had the DM sorted.
But here I am after 6 years and I am again practicing nothing but DM.
I wish I could put some sort of futuristic nano-camera in my pineal gland so that Yogani and your good selves could see/feel directly what I do when I'm trying to meditate. It's so hard to describe.
Basically the experience for most of the last year, and for many other long periods throughout the 6 years, has been one of strain. Strain, anxiety, irritability, spaced outness. During the meditations I have become expert at various sorts of refined letting-go attitudes, different types of intention and concentration and patient patient waiting, waiting while the soup of my inner sense percolates, and the mantra occasionally "says itself" (that's how it happens - I don't repeat the mantra, I can't, I have to wait and wait with the gentle intention to be saying the mantra, and after a while the waves of resistance and strain which just seem to be there all the time part and the mantra slips through a few repetitions, easily, gently - without any direction from me that I am aware of in terms of speed, number of repetitions etc). But none of this patience and letting go seems to ever get anywhere. Occasionally out of exasperation at the endless sense of block I'll change tack from that passive attitude and have more intentional repeating of the mantra - but it never gets anywhere either, the sense of block just rises up to meet me.
And after the DM, with very rare exceptions that prove the rule, it is a mixture of irritability, low feelings and strain. Please make no mistake: the moments of bliss and light heartedness that I do very occasionally get are exceptions that prove the rule - they are so seldom, months and months apart at a time, and the overwhelming sense is of strain.
This is with, at the moment, only one DM session most days, 10 mins in the morning, and after a recent hiatus of 5 weeks in which I did nothing at all for the first time in the 6 years. The previous year it had been two sessions but getting shorter and shorter until I was doing 5 mins twice a day. It's not enough - 2 really short sessions a day or one semi-short session a day is not enough if all you get from it is a sense that your insides may be softening up in some kind of treacle-slow purification process that will last 20 years before you start to get anything from it, or alternatively before you realise you were never getting anything from it just like you felt all along, and you've wasted your life.
So am I oversensitive then? Awful as it may sound - I am only now, 6 years in, considering the possibility that I'm oversensitive in the way Yogani describes. I couldn't really consider it before because I have never had the powerful inner silence/energy reactions followed by strain that I presumed were the indicators. All I've had is the strain. I'm sick of it. So I used to presume I was actually undersensitive - it's only because I've kept having to reduce my practice time that I've ended up wondering if the opposite is the case. Have I been straining myself for 6 years and that's where all the turmoil has come from?
But, you'll not be surprised to hear, I came to this practice already with a lot of tension and strain inside me, that's why I wanted to meditate in the first place to unwind it. And it seemed in a 1-step-forward 5-steps-back sort of way that it did unwind a decent amount of that over the course of the years. I'm not denying there have been some good periods. But please, again, please understand that I'm talking about a percentage of 85% to 15% negative experience to positive at BEST.
So if it is so bad why am I still here? Good question - if you were to picture me as one of the meditation mountain climbers - I suppose I would be the slightly insane looking one you can see through your binoculars on a really harsh looking bit of slope where no one else is, trying over and over and OVER AND OVER and over and OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER and over and over to scrabble up the side of the mountain - with this crazed look of "I will never give up!!!!" on his face.
Who then finally, one day, collapses in tears of frustration and bafflement and rage and disbelief that after all that effort and time he still hasn't figured out a simple way to put one foot in front of the other. The feeling is that I still cannot "do" DM in any way that works. Except - I did just this morning try the 3rd mantra enhancement, on the basis that maybe I'm oversensitive - I'll admit that of course it made me feel a lot better and I felt some silence inside during the day. But my feeling is - of course it would do that - if you change your diet substantially in any way it usually makes you feel better at least for a while - I just sort of know that eventually as Yogani says the same problem will crop up, if you're trying to get around oversensitivity with a longer mantra.
I know I'm coming on strong. I apologise. But I'm really frustrated. This is a cranky, bad tempered, but ultimately sincere cri de coeur. Please - any feedback is more than welcome. I won't bite, I promise. Please ask any questions also.
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BillinL.A.
USA
375 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2014 : 8:14:54 PM
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Hi JackHenry, its awesome you share your feelings on your spiritual journey!
In one sense I'm guessing that the solution to the main problem that you express is doing what you've just done...share your spiritual feelings. I do it in little ways with most all the people who know me but wish I'd do it more. This forum is just heaven for people like you and me.
For so many decades I've felt frustrated like you. The feeling of almost giving up is so much a part of my spiritual journey that I've come to know I'll never give up spiritually. I'm gonna die looking to God...I bet you will too from the way you talk spiritually.!
Ultimately its all a very intimate relationship with that subtle awareness behind our normal personality. In many spiritual traditions they assert that as soon as we think about finding God we've found God. We've found God because that consciousness in us that inspires us to look is God consciousness.
Paramahansa Yogananda said that if our spiritual journey is a trip from New York City to Downtown Los Angeles then as soon as we learn meditation techniques we're in Glendale and can see L.A. City Hall...we're almost home!
I just love that about Yogani. Like the best big brother you could hope for he made it clear to me that I can and should accept myself where I'm at...no one else convinced me like he did.
So JackHenry I and tons of others struggle just like you. Any effort to do DM is your intimate relationship with the Divine. Whatever amount doesn't drive you nuts will be enough to keep you on the path. You're ego may be frustrated but that's okay. Take care! |
Edited by - BillinL.A. on Jan 21 2014 03:39:37 AM |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2014 : 01:54:12 AM
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| Very inspiring posts - thank you! |
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2014 : 05:28:12 AM
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Hello
Thank you for the warm reply BillinL.A.
I do know that probably everyone has some serious frustration and difficulty at some point in the process - but I am asking for help with a years-long ongoing difficulty with basic technique that isn't getting any clearer to me.
I wasn't very specific in that opening rant though, so here's some more detail:
When I try to meditate, in every single session without exception in the last 5-6 years, there are powerful streams of thought and what I can only call "sensation", because I'm unsure whether to call it thought or feeling or whether it is mental or subtly-physical - the inner world is really quite murky. So in every session there is all of that; in the early years I would try to repeat the mantra in a deliberate way, trying to get the pronunciation and technique right etc etc the way a lot of people do at first. But in the face of those streams it was like going up against a sumo-wrestler - I would feel like I was having to force the mantra.
Realising eventually that it was ok to let go and trust and not force anything with willpower, I found that the mantra would "say itself" in a very subtle way if I just had the gentle intention for that to happen.
Now, in every single session without exception for the last 5-6 years I have had these powerful ceaseless streams before which all I can do is wait. And wait. And wait. Waiting for the mantra to say itself would be a reasonable summary of this one dimension of my inner experience.
Now of course I have taken on board Yogani's teaching on what to do with a powerful thought stream - just regard it without interest and it will eventually unwind allowing you to continue with the mantra.
He doesn't say what to do when the powerful thought stream lasts continuously throughout every single session you have had for years. Faced with that situation I have been through so many different permutations of approach - often thinking that I'm misidentifying what is going on inside me, and these powerful streams are something else - the reflection of some attitude of mine rather than what Yogani is talking about. And so like I said in the first post I have become an expert at various sort of waiting games, allowing the mantra to slip around all of that stuff in its own time. There have been a few blissful periods (exceptions to the rule!) when it seemed like I had it, and the mantra was melting all this crud away. Not so - I continued like that and very quickly ended up in one or other tar-pit of irritability and strain and bafflement.
What do I do? What am I doing wrong with this mantra technique?
Is it to do with my relationship with the streams of thought or sensation or whatever the hell they are? I know Yogani has written lucidly about how we don't need to do anything with thoughts - that they can just be there alongside, or over, or under or through mantra repetition. I'm wondering if that is my problem - an almost chronicly poor attitude to my own thought streams.
Here is what happens: if I try to take an attitude of equanimity to that rampaging elephant herd of thought and sensation - letting the mantra repeat with it in full flow, all I can manage is two repetitions, or three, for an entire session. For session after session. Months and months and years of sessions in which I say the mantra 2-3 times - but I'm not off into bliss land every time I say it, far from it.
Ideas, anyone? Should I be trying to take my inner experience head on like that and accepting session after session of 2-3 mantra repetitions? I have shied away from that - I suppose I have been essentially ignoring or trying to ignore the rampaging elephant herd, but it never works for more than a session and a half - I get some clarity and then the way is blocked again, and I feel like I am ceaselessly changing my approach to the DM instead of being able to settle in.
Or should I stop doing I Am altogether because it clearly doesn't work for me? |
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mathurs
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2014 : 06:59:12 AM
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Jackhenry,
Hello. I am really sorry to hear that you have had such a hard time for so many years with DM.
A couple of questions before I venture to suggest a few things.
So at the moment are you continuing with SB prior to DM? Or Are you only doing DM for 10 mins morning session?
also
you are resting for a good 10 mins after every sit?
Now to the suggestions.
I think carry on with the third mantra enhancement if it feels better. If the same problem crops up again then try doing just breath meditation - using breath rather than the mantra as a tool for meditation and see how it goes.
If the problem still carries on don't feel awkward to ask again either at the forums or one of the more experienced meditators or Yogani. |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2014 : 09:23:46 AM
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Hi JackHenry:
How has your daily activity been over these past years? How is it now? Has your perception of life outside meditation changed since you have been meditating? This is the measure of your practice, not what the experience has been during meditation, which can be anything according to the unique process of purification that is going on inside you. It is what it is, and the procedure of meditation remains the same. It is the quality of our everyday life where we should see some results, not necessarily in the subjective experience of meditation.
We'd all like to spend our meditation sessions floating in a sea of bliss, like a vacation from the humdrum of our endless thought streams, but obviously it is not going to be like that all the time. In your case it has not been like that much at all. But that does not mean meditation is not working. The suggestion is to let the meditation go how it will, and focus more on daily living. If life is not seeming to get better, then perhaps it is time to consider other approaches. The objective is not lovely sittings and then back to the grind of life. It is to sit, no matter what the meditation is like, and then find the grind of life gradually becoming less of a grind. We may not always notice life getting better ourselves, but others might. How are your relationships since meditating? Has anyone noticed anything different about you?
These are the kinds of things that indicate if our meditation is working or not. It is not about the subjective experience while sitting, as much as we would like it to be.
If daily activity is not good, with irritability, etc, then adjustments in the practice routine should be considered, as you have been doing. But not necessarily for the purpose of improving the subjective experience of meditation or any other practice. Of course, our practices should be reasonably comfortable. If they are not, we have measures that can be applied, self-pacing especially. Still, the bottom line is going to be found between our sessions, not during them.
Wishing you all the best on your continuing path, and looking forward to more feedback on your experience outside meditation.
The guru is in you.
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2014 : 09:36:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
We'd all like to spend our meditation sessions floating in a sea of bliss, like a vacation from the humdrum of our endless thought streams, but obviously it is not going to be like that all the time.
Never get tired of these reminders Yogani! Thank you. |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2014 : 10:35:45 AM
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Be well through all the ups and downs, kami.
The guru is in you.
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2014 : 6:45:26 PM
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Mathurs: Thanks for your reply. I am doing only DM at the moment; I felt the urge to retreat to that even though SB was relatively easy for me, so that I could sort the DM out or see how it went on its own.
And yes I do rest plenty after each session.
I will consider these other techniques - I feel I still have something to hash out with the baseline DM in order to tell once and for all if I'm doing something wrong.
Yogani - many thanks for replying, I appreciate it. I'm unfortunately about to run out of battery (no joke) so I'm just going to give a quick response which I can continue with tomorrow at some point. I need to keep this conversation going until I get some perspective!
I am certain that a part of me, or big part of me, does look for a specific experience during DM - HOWEVER, the second part of my answer is that my experience after and between session in the rest of my day has had a lot of irritability and dullness, more so recently. So something has to be up. I have self pace to 10 mins only once a day just recently - and that does take the edge off the irritability for the day as a whole (it really does actuallY) - but there is often irritability in the hour and half immediately following. Gotta go sorry! |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2014 : 07:07:21 AM
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Hi Jack,
I had similiar experiences like you, also regarding the ratio between positive and negative results, but a lot of things became clearer over the years also while looking at other techniques and systems, so a hint for you to try out aswell:
Instead of focusing on DM alone, which is obviously in whatever amount you do the cause for all the suffering, you can try to add more of the other elements of yoga. Yoga consists of 8 limbs, the first 7 leading to the 8th.
Yama, Niyama, Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and Samadhi.
So out of the yogic tools that have been given to mankind to be succesful in Yoga aka Samadhi you are utilizing meditation (dhyana) alone. Immense amount of people practiced TM for years and decades, none of them has come nearly as far as Yogani. Reason, Yogani went into all the other limbs aswell. And are you aware of anyone on this planet who acts realized and masterlike, referencing himself to TM alone (DM is practically the same)?
In the Secrets of Wilder book it is made clear that SBP plays a vital role in balancing out the effects of DM. So instead of clearing out the dry and crusty dishes with your fingernails alone (DM), you could first try to hold them under hot water for some time (SBP) ;) And to not get a muscle ache after so much standing and arm movement, it would be quite a good idea to do some stretching excercises before :) Then suddenly you will see, that the whole thing becomes much more smooth and enjoyable. Will it take more time? Yes. But better more time and a working combo than no working solution..
A member here had similiar problems aswell, he tried out the some meditation, some pranayama, some asana combo, but did not report back for quite some time (winking to Maheswari :). He could perhaps tell more about if it worked out or not. At least here back then "diluting" DM with other elements worked out much better and smoother.
Peace friend, I'm feeling with you, struggle is not ok. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2014 : 08:17:49 AM
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Hi Jack,
It sounds like some serious purification is going on, with the symptoms being stress and irritability.
I would agree with a lot of the advice already given. I would suggest (as Mathurs did), switching to breath based meditation for a while and I would recommend increasing the time to 20 minutes. 10 minutes is too short a time to let the mind calm down and come to a state of stillness and peace. And let your meditations be gentle, simply coming back to the meditation object when you are off it. If you are forcing the mind then you are not doing the practice right and all you will get is a headache! 
Yogani often recommends breathing meditation for people who are too sensitive to the mantra, which sounds like the case with you. Here is a description of breath based meditation:
http://www.secretsofyoga.org/breath...itation.html
The breath comes and goes of it's own accord so there is no need to force anything. It just happens, and all you have to do is watch it and watch it again whenever you notice you have become distracted.
And I would agree with Holy too, that adding other aspects of yoga will help, especially asana practice. It helps with grounding, which reduces stress and irritability, and will also help you get more into your body. Asana practice also frees up blockages in the body, so it works in many wonderful ways to help alleviate the issues that you have been experiencing.
Christi |
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pkj
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2014 : 12:37:25 PM
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lot of good advice has already been said. I have experienced some of the similar experiences. I would agree with Holy and Christi doing Yoga Asanas definitely helps. Specially in my case doing 10-15 rounds of Surya Namsakars really helps to move the energy, balanace the system. then i just do the breath meditation followed by Samyama. Another thing really helped was to surrender surrender, just let it go what will happen. initally it will be losing control but then it will be very peaceful.
All the best
PKJ |
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2014 : 4:16:32 PM
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Hello everyone; thank you for all the replies. In order to organize my thoughts in reply I am going to address myself to Yogani but in doing so I am bearing in mind the suggestions of Holy, Christi and PKJ regarding alternative approaches, for which I am grateful.
Yogani: The problem is that I have been experiencing irritability and negative effects outside of the DM, in daily activity, for a long time -for years really.
I confirmed it for myself yet again today. Due to me bringing up all this stuff to put on the forum I typically had one of my seeming realisations of "how to do it right" which are always so short lived. I realised, or remembered, that although the thought streams seem enormously powerful - I only need to deal with a little bit at a time - just be aware of a little portion of it that is most "in front of me" as it were. And it worked - my morning 5 minute DM was very clear and I felt some real clarity and light heartedness during the day. So I decided to do the same in evening, 5 mins, and within 2 repetitions I was up against strain again. And after it in activity I have had the usual mixture of irritability and melancholy.
I don't think I'm exaggerating to say that it must be close to a thousand experiences like this either in the morning or evening - it's a kind of emotional brittleness takes over, my nervous system just strained and bruised feeling.
Behind that problem, I have come to understand, is that I have tremendously stubborn elements in my character, and I also have come to understand that with that I have a quite deep sense of loyalty (a neutral trait I suppose - good or bad depending on what you are loyal to). And I think I have gotten myself in a tizzy due to these traits (unfathomable karma, in your phrase).
That is: I not only don't want to leave AYP even though I'm having a bad time of it, I don't even want to leave the simple baseline I AM mantra, even though it's become clear, it should have become clear long ago, it's not working in a balanced way for me no matter how much I self pace. It's a weird attitude I know - I just have this feeling that I'm failing or there's something wrong with me if I have to do breath meditation or a different mantra.
One trait I do feel I have alongside those foolish ones that isn't so bad is "bhakti" of a sort. I suppose I must have a lot of the real deal bhakti, albeit of a somewhat tortured type, if I have kept banging my head off this brick wall for so long. I think what is happening is that I finally feel ready to make some smarter decisions and give the bhakti a better direction, i.e. I'm ready for a new approach as you say. I've had enough of the bullsh*t above.
Here is what I want to try: like Holy and Christi say I'm going to try reintroducing SB with some of the light asanas before it, twice a day if I can manage, and I'm going to see if that will give a sort of wider base from which I can manage very short DMs, ordinary I AM, without getting the bad reactions.
Due to that loyalty and stubborness I have always assumed that I HAD to get the DM right before I could really get to work on the energy/physical side of things - but I am now getting the inner sense, inner hint, that it's time to try a different direction. Maybe I am so constituted that I only need little little little sips of mantra yoga alongside a lot of other stuff to help open things up.
The thing is I've been moaning about the strain and bad effects - for good reason I think - but I haven't yet told how it feels clear to me that DM does something purificatory - I get automatic yoga with it and have done for a long time - my head goes to my chest in most sessions effortlessly. But it's just that it doesn't leave me feeling in any way "good" or "better" in my day! But maybe if that purification were backed up by the other techniques in a much more confident way it might be different.
I'm thinking light asansas then maybe even 10 mins SB, or 5 mins at least, then a couple of mins DM?
And if it still is no good - maybe then, finally, I'll try breath meditation and see how I go? |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2014 : 5:43:26 PM
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Hi JackHenry:
Sounds like a plan.
Good advice from everyone here. Based on what you have said about irritability and moods between your meditation sessions, it sounds like you are sensitive to mantra meditation. You can try to balance things out with asanas and pranayama as several have suggested. It may work. If not, then consider the breath meditation option.
The routine that works best for you, whatever it is, is obviously going to be the right one, and I suggest you keep testing until you find a balance in practices that gives you good results in your daily activity. The idea is to be kind to yourself and make whatever adjustments that are necessary to find the balance you need. We are all a bit different in how our nervous system goes through purification and opening, and your practices should be serving your unique makeup. It does not work so well the other way around, with the person trying to serve a rigid system without any wiggle room. As you know, AYP has plenty of wiggle room in it, and you should take advantage of that. Even if it involves going to another system or approach altogether, that is perfectly okay if it works for you.
Your bhakti and determination are very good, and in the long run these are going to make all the difference. Just keep going, and it is going to work out very well.
Do let us know how things are going. Wishing you all the best on your continuing path!
The guru is in you.
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2014 : 6:43:39 PM
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Hi Yogani
I'm glad it sounds like a plan to you. I feel relieved also that I've decided to stop banging my head off the wall. I also feel not a little bit foolish, but I can always quote William Blake to make myself feel better:
"If the fool would persist in his folly he would become wise."
That's my excuse at this point anyhow.
I'm actually looking forward very much now to continuing to have a practice but without having to battle the bad reactions to the mantra yoga - I'm even wondering about going straight to asana/SB and breath meditation just to give myself a break - I can relax a bit and just let the effects of the asana/sb bake in using simple breath observance.
Either way I will report back how it is going.
Thank you everyone. |
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Omsat
Belgium
267 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2014 : 06:07:00 AM
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Hi JackHenry,
Sorry to hear about the ongoing struggle..
Sounds like overload to me.. Be it from spiritual practices and/or of other activities you may engage in outside of formal practices.
As this is a spiritual forum, we tend to emphasize the effects of practices. In my experience, practices play a huge role in overall well-being, but they are only a part of the whole: Choices of activities/routines/habits play a very important role as well.
If the symptoms are mainly owing to the specific practices (can easily be tested by practicing only once a day or even not practicing for a few days/weeks), focusing on other aspects than meditation may help a lot (karma yoga and asanas are the most liberating for me).
If it is practices along with overall lifestyle choices (diet, type of work, type of leisure and sports activities, daily rituals/routines and lack thereof, scenenery/environment in which one is living etc.), it gets much more individual and more complicated to resolve on a public forum with this little information about you. The good news in this case is that there is a lot you can do to gradually improve your situation and you can explore to your liking. This is quite empowering, especially when having lots of bhakti as you have.
To my knowledge and in my experience with practicing the principles of Ayurveda, this system of knowledge has one of the widest scope and most in depth understanding of the influence of lifestyle choices on overall well-being/health.
To give just one example of how lifestyle choices can affect wellbeing for a particular individual:
I find that the more I am engaged in intellectual / inside/office (especially computer work), the more I may suffer from undesirable symptoms, while the other types of work help smooth things out neatly. This can be challenging here as I am intellectually inclined.. In any case, the lesson for me is: When experiencing symptoms of overload, spend as much time outdoors (getting dirty helps extra) and reduce the time spent inside, especially time spent behind a computer screen..
So if it is relevant to you, may I ask a few questions (you may consider just for yourself, no need to reply here unless so inclined..):
a) Are your working activities (your job) mainly intellectual / computer / office work, or more do activities (gardening, "doing" business, construction / physical work etc.)?
b) How are your eating habits (regular meals, which kinds of foods/drinks)?
c) Do you live in the city or in a village; more importantly: are you surrounded by lots of trees/flowers or is cement all you see around you?
d) Do you usually go to sleep / wake up at the same time; eat on regular times?
e) What are your leisure activities?
f) Do you engage in physical activity regularly? If so, is it activity with speedy movement, or rather slow? Teamsport or individual.. Competitive or teamplay
All choices you make with regard these things affect your bodily-mind system in more or less subtle ways. Bringing consciousness in all of this, with some guidance from a system as ayurveda, can be a very rewarding practice.. If you need to scale back on DM for a while, this may also give you a comfortable feeling of still engaging in awareness practice, be it much more grounded, in the motion of life rather than in the motion of thoughts during sitting practice..
Warm wishes and best with your explorations..
Omsat
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2014 : 09:21:49 AM
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Hi JackHenry,
It sounds like you have a good game plan going on. I have been meaning to post this as a topic but I thought that maybe you could use it now.
I have had a some success dealing with overloads of the anxiety type using techniques by Michael Brown. I have had some pretty major overloads where I locked myself in my room for a couple of hours and this technique worked. Now they don't all require that amount of time but that was a pretty big one.
Try it and let me know if it works for you:http://www.thepresenceportal.com/Ar...%20Plane.htm
I wish you the best,
Tom |
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2014 : 3:45:30 PM
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Everybody - I think I've settled on switching to breath meditation supported by asana and SB. With my usual lack of perspective I jumped into all three today, then realised that's probably not a good idea.
What I want is to be able to do two sessions in a day without feeling strained. But I accept I may have to build up to that - it's just that I haven't yet had an experience of "building up" with any of these practices that actually worked - I just seem to get more sensitive as I go on. The SB affects me differently than DM but it too seems to give me one good experience in activity and then the second session of the day pushes me over a line and it feels strained again, in a different way to the mantra strain.
I'm wondering if the only way to go from here, in a mid to long-term way, is to slowly take on small light amounts of a lot of practices - a bit of asana, a bit of SB, a bit of breath meditation, a bit of mudras and samyama. Maybe no one of these practices will ever be "the one" that takes me forward.
So I wanted to ask two things: do people think I should do nothing but Breath meditation for a few weeks, or could I manage maybe BM and light asanas for starters, then add a bit of SB in about a month?
And secondly - are there any people who have found that no one practice seemed to be "the one", and that it really was an array of practices that seemed to get things going for them?
Omsat - many thanks for the ideas. I would say it is mostly specific practices that are causing the specific trouble I'm talking about; however your points about lifestyle would still be very relevant to the extent that I've been trying to use my narrow mantra yoga focus to make my life "better" in a one-wheeled sense, rather than being able to take a broader approach.
I have often wondered about finding out more about ayurveda - are there any resources (books/webites/teachers) that you would particularly recommend there?
And to answer your more specific questions:
My jobs (plural) are mainly office type work I'm afraid, and I do live in a city albeit in an area with a lot of park land. However I have recently taken possession of a city allotment on which we intend to grow as much of our own food as we are able - that should hopefully balance things out there.
My eating habits I'd say are largely good but only because I'm blessed with a partner who is very nutrition conscious and loves cooking (and does all the cooking) - if I were on my own it could be dire.
Regularity of meals and sleep is a problem - our lives are pretty chaotic, especially at the moment, for various reasons I won't get into.
Leisure activities are hard to come by when I'm working full time and helping raise our daughter, with another kid on the way, and some accommodation problems. The allotment was our idea to sort that - a healthy hobby that combines leisure/exercise with a skill (food growing) that the more people learn these days the better. That aside it is reading and DVD boxsets.
Exercise - very bad. I've been meaning for a long time to do something about that - besides running around for a lot of errands I get basically none. It ain't good - and I used to be really quite fit at one point in my life with martial arts and running etc.
I take it that's a 3.5 out of 10 maybe?
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2014 : 4:25:28 PM
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Hi Jack,
I don't think you need to bee too cautious. In the classes I teach in Devon, people start off with asana practice, alternate nostril breathing, spinal breathing pranayama and breathing meditation, all on day one. Only one of those is an advanced practice (SBP), so they are only starting one advanced practice to begin with and then building up from there. Then I slowly add DM, mudras and bandhas, siddhasana, samyama etc over time.
The strain you are experiencing is a worry and I believe is a sign of overload. If you get that happening a lot, I would cut back on whichever practice is causing the strain.
And yes, there is no one magic bullet practice that will take you all the way and be "The One". Everything works together in yoga and brings balance to the whole.
Do make sure you stay grounded by getting some exercise every day, even if it is just going for a walk in nature. This is especially important if you are experiencing symptoms of overload.
Christi |
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2014 : 4:44:48 PM
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Hi Christi
Do you think it is possible that I am overloaded from all that mantra yoga that was straining me over the years - like in a way that will take a while to undo? I think I was just in a place where I was convinced the problems I was having had a solution other than "stop doing that practice", but there wasn't, and I kept at it over and over with different approaches.
If it is a question of stopping the practice well I've done that as of today. The first half of the day was pretty great - but the second round of asana/sb/breath meditation left me a bit spaced and ever so slightly strained emotionally.
I may be overreacting to that because I've had so much strain - I would love to be able to relax and not be over cautious and have to spend forever building up from breath meditation.
But maybe if like you say I am suffering from overdoing then the symptoms will last a while after I have cut off the main cause of it - and even SB twice a day won't be possible as a result?
Oh heck I don't know - it just seems like neither of these core practices - DM or SB are stabilisable for me. I really hope I can get a stable practice but I'm feeling a bit scrambled about it all and I find it hard to imagine after all the disappointment that one day I will be able to do two sessions per day with an advanced, any advanced, practice in it without feeling weird. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2014 : 6:06:01 PM
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Hi Jack,
I was thinking about the same after having read your posts this morning. If you add all three at once, it may be too much. The reason is, there is a clunky stage when you start with a new practice. And I'm not so sure you have the asana set perfectly in, have you? The same goes for SBP, it takes some time to adjust to it. And for sure this goes aswell with the breath meditation.
I think maheswari tried out the combo some asanas (don't know if the AYP set or anotehr one), then alternate nostril breathing and some meditation, don't know which one.
Alternate nostril breathing is a pretty easy pranayama with very very nice calming and smoothing effects. Without holding the breath, just easily and slowly breathing in and out alternating the nostrils.
A good combo to work up to may be AYP asana kit, ANB, breath meditation. Starting out with breath meditation for some days to weeks, then adding asanas or ANB, then the complete round. After some months you can change ANB with SBP. And perhaps after even more months you may change breath meditation with DM. Surely there will be some transition phase because of the after effects of years of DM. So you will experience some kind of peak experience for some days to weeks until the new practices will be a new cause for a hopefully smoother ride! :)
One more hint regarding physical activity, can't speak highly enough of it, the appendix part of Yogani's Asanas book!!!!!! It has totally transformed the physical life experience here! I regard it as a spiritual practice too. Some years ago I would have seperated muscle toning and aerobic exercises from the other practices, but it is all about purifying and strengthening the body mind, from the grossest to the most subtle. Tuning the muscles via Yogani's program takes about 10-12 minutes and the result is, a very fit and strong body that also requires more food with an overall effect of nice grounding and stability regarding every other aspect within life including the other elements of yoga. A man should really do these, your wife will love it aswell and support you for sure!!! ;)
I'm sure you will be succesful with this, the one or other way will work out! Give it some weeks to 1-2 months.
Peace friend and enjoy :) |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2014 : 8:52:15 PM
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| Nice work, gentle men! |
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Omsat
Belgium
267 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2014 : 04:16:04 AM
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Hi JackHenry,
This site has a good questionnaire to find out your natural constitution (prakriti):
http://www.prokerala.com/health/ayu...ti-analysis/ (
test + guidelines after completing)
as well as useful introductory information http://www.prokderala.com/health/ayurveda/
Yogani has written beautiful posts about Ayurveda:
http://www.aypsite.org/ayurveda-diets.html
http://www.aypsite.org/69.html
A list of resources:
http://www.aypsite.org/ayurveda.html
Whether your lifestyle choices make more or less sense to you, depends to a large extent on your unique matrix of characteristics and is an experiential thing. But finding out your prakriti gives many major clues with very noticeable effects when implemented..
For me, working in the garden is a very potent medicine as well as being in very quiet, peaceful places..
From reading your posts, it seems you are likely to have a light constitution (vata-pitta) and grounding may be all the more important for you (as many have suggested having a regular routine of exercises as well as other lifestyle rituals; if your dosha is vata dominant light, gentle, slow activity will be best; in terms of asanas very fast dynamic styles like ashtanga might be less appropriate for this constitution while it is excellent for kapha constitutions).
Best wishes,
Omsat
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2014 : 07:58:38 AM
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quote:
Do you think it is possible that I am overloaded from all that mantra yoga that was straining me over the years - like in a way that will take a while to undo? I think I was just in a place where I was convinced the problems I was having had a solution other than "stop doing that practice", but there wasn't, and I kept at it over and over with different approaches.
If it is a question of stopping the practice well I've done that as of today. The first half of the day was pretty great - but the second round of asana/sb/breath meditation left me a bit spaced and ever so slightly strained emotionally.
Hi Jack,
Yes, it sounds like you are experiencing energetic overload. But it doesn't necessarily take a long time to put right. In fact by following the basic self-pacing guidelines and grounding guidelines you can sort things out pretty quick. Follow the advice already given to you here by Yogani and others and you will be fine.
Remember that self pacing means cutting back on a practice that is causing problems, or if necessary cutting that practice out all together for a while whilst things settle down.
Christi |
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Omsat
Belgium
267 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2014 : 10:36:52 PM
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Hi Jack,
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Jack,
Yes, it sounds like you are experiencing energetic overload. But it doesn't necessarily take a long time to put right. In fact by following the basic self-pacing guidelines and grounding guidelines you can sort things out pretty quick. Follow the advice already given to you here by Yogani and others and you will be fine.
Remember that self pacing means cutting back on a practice that is causing problems, or if necessary cutting that practice out all together for a while whilst things settle down.
Christi
I think this entire post is very wise advice from Christi..
I have found it very helpful when experiencing overload to "reset" the system by not doing formal practice for a day. So, I've put that sentence in Christi's post above in bold as it was not suggested so much in the posts before.
Like you(?), I used to think skipping a practice was not appropriate (believing a good practioner never misses a session). Well, when doing it anyway at some point I learnt that indeed less (formal practice) can be way more (general well-being) in some circumstances.
Balance is key. If one is on the beginning of being involved with spiritual practices (or is just in a phase of being overly relaxed (lazy) about them somehow), one may need some discipline and continuous regular practice without exception.
If, on the other hand, one has gone far the other way, in putting spiritual practice above anything else, the balance may be found by cutting down exactly with those practices(and/or altering some aspect of life outside of formal practices) when overload is experienced.
There is an inherent balance in the build-up approach of AYP as well as in the allowance of completely letting go of (some) practices. It is a two-sided coin.
If one is close to balance, one can move around gently around the point of optimal growth and (slowly) build up over time. That is the ideal scenario (which seems in line with most of what we see happening in nature: steady effortless growth as a child and tree grow). But it is not always the scenario that we currently find ourselves in with our practices (to the extent there is much emphasis on effort perhaps). Then making the right adjustments is all that is needed to bring back balance in the system. Simple enough, were it not that one has to let go of some habit (sometimes it is an obvious "bad" habit, sometimes it is one we firmly -perhaps a little blindly? - believe is a "good" one.) There's many suggestions in this topic for this already (and more detailed advice elsewhere on the site). I'm sure you'll find a routine that works for you when balance becomes a priority.
Warm wishes,
Omsat |
Edited by - Omsat on Jan 24 2014 11:01:07 PM |
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JackHenry
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2014 : 08:36:24 AM
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Hello folks,
Many thanks for replies and encouragement. I have basically reset the system as suggested and have been doing nothing but 10 mins breathing meditation twice a day.
It's going well - peaceful and none of the weird stressful effects as with the mantra. If it continues like this then breathing meditation might well become my new favourite thing.
After all the never ending drama around the mantra yoga, whatever good I'm feeling now is probably at least half just my system unwinding with relief that I've stopped with the mantra - but it's not just that I think - I can feel the peaceful effects of just observing the breath, in and out of the session.
So hopefully things are looking up, but it is very early days. I'll keep at it a few weeks and report back if that's ok. I'll probably just stick with BM on its own for a short while, then add asanas if I feel ready.
Thank you again for the support |
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