|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - May 06 2012 : 09:46:23 AM
|
As some of you probably know, lately I've been inquiring into exactly what meditation does to me and whether or not it is actually helpful or if it is a hinderance (at least at this point in my journey). What I have come to realize is that meditation can be a lot like opiates for me. Regular twice daily meditation generally has me in a state of blissful equanimity, unaffected by Life to a point where I wonder if it is perhaps hindering progress. What I've been inquiring into lately is whether or not I am *actually* benefitting in the long run from the state of equanimity and unaffectedness that I experience when I engage in regular twice daily practices. The reason I compare it to opiates is because this is generally what opiates do to me as well. They put me in a state where it doesn't matter what happens around or to me as I am unaffected by it all. For most, it seems that being in this state is generally a positive thing. For me, I'm wondering if it is just delaying the inevitable.
I've come to realize that a very important part of my path is to come to know all about myself... my tendencies, my instinctual reactions, what makes me tick on an individual level. But I've noticed that if I'm in a constant state of unaffectedness, I don't get to go deep into my own conditioning, I don't *have* to face my own tendencies and can just "let it all slide" and simply abide in that wonderful sense of "all is perfect as it is." I'm wondering if this is just delaying things, if I'm actually making it more challenging to come to know all about myself. Now that I am only meditating about 4 or 5 times a week I've noticed that the "unaffectedness" is generally much less and I now have a greater ability/opportunity to notice and inquire into my conditioning and tendencies. Yes it's more painful and challenging, but the amount of clarity with regards to what makes me tick as an individual has increased probably about 100 fold since limiting my meditation practice. Maybe this is just proper self pacing, I'm not sure, but I'd appreciate any feedback if any of you feel so inclined.
Many thanks.
Love,
Carson  |
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2012 : 10:06:13 AM
|
Carson, do you realise that what you are saying isn't congruent to what you are doing ?
You say your not affected by things, but you are clearly affected by the idea that you might be delaying something. So, infact, you are still in the clutches of thought, otherwise this would not have come up.
These are the thoughts within the idea of no thought. It's incredible, the mind creates a 'no thought' thought to render thoughts invisible, but still potent. So now the mind still takes charge and nudges you away from meditation. It's a tricky blighter.
I suspect you have not given up the idea of control and free will. If you don't give it up and completely surrender it will keep drawing you back in and hide behind the Ego that wishes to control the process.
This is where religions tell you to surrender to God, Jesus, Buddha or whom ever, anything to turn away from the Ego. Be like a child, wide eyed, innocent and trusting, fear neither external control or intamacy. It's not easy to give up the reins, but actually you never held them anyway. |
 |
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2012 : 10:25:19 AM
|
Hi Karl,
Well, perhaps our paths are different (sorry, not perhaps, they obviously are) but regardless, I am not trying, and I have no desire to, escape "the clutches of thought." My path is to know myself.... to shed light in every corner so that nothing is hidden.... and noticing my thoughts, and thought patterns is very helpful for this. Having no thoughts, or giving no heed to the thoughts that do come up, is not something I am interested in.
What is nudging me away from a twice daily meditation practice is noticing how it affects my life and those around me. With a twice daily practice set I am either in a state of equanimity so strong that I'm unaffected by everything, OR, I'm in a state of unawareness of myself (this is overload) and end up doing things that in hindsight I wouldn't do if I was more aware.
With regards to control and free will... I know through personal experience that control is an illusion. But, I also know that I am responsible for following my heart. And if my heart is calling me to limit my meditation practice, to ignore that is wrong. For me.
Thanks for the input.
Love!
Carson |
|
|
|
Parallax
USA
348 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2012 : 10:28:38 AM
|
Hey Carson!!
How are you my brother? Everyone here misses you!
A few questions that come to my mind when I read your post...so when you are in a state of blissful equanimity, how are your actions? Are you acting from a place of greater love, compassion, patience etc...or are you getting feedback that you are acting like a jerk, but you just can't see it/don't care because of all the bliss  Are all of the old tendancies still there, or have they been reducing over time with your practices?
And depending on the answer to the above, are you wanting to come out of equanimity to see what tendancies come back so you can release them? It seems like the fruit of meditation is that the old tendancies fall away over the long term with our practice...with clarity also increasing along the way; ie meditation helps to bring the clarity/witness and coupled with self inquiry we let go of the tendencies.
If its a self-pacing issue of not being grounded enough to be able to see with clarity, then maybe a bit of a break is in order...
|
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2012 : 10:59:26 AM
|
Hi Parallax! 
I miss your family as well. Still have their latest drawings pinned to my dresser mirror. I think of you all every day.
When I am in that state of blissful equanimity I believe that I do act with greater love, compassion and patience. But the drive to "open further" is gone... I am content, and in a way I "land" here. This is where I find there is an issue. I don't want to land anywhere. As I write this though, I'm aware that this is a tendency of mine. Before AYP I used to consciously refuse to allow myself to be happy for any length of time. I was always concerned that if I was happy, I would become complacent and would stop doing what I felt I needed to in order to make myself, and consequently the world, "better." This is the kind of stuff that I end up "missing" when I am in that state of equanimity.... I miss seeing my tendencies and therefor don't inquire into them and don't come to know myself in a deeper way. Thank you for this line of questioning as it allowed me to see myself better. 
When I meditate twice a day every day I also do find that I can act like a jerk and not see it. This happens when the overload symptoms shift from equanimity to an uncomfortable highlighting of my personal tendencies. Then, it is only in hindsight that I realize I was unaware that I was acting out my personal tendencies and need to make ammends.
All of my old tendencies are still there, but when I am balanced there is "space" between the instinctual reactions and my actual actions. When I am in balance the tendencies don't seem to be reduced, but I become aware of them before they instictually play out and I can choose a different action/reaction. This I can see is a benefit of meditation.
I am not necessarily looking to "come out of the equanimity" but I *am* looking to know myself better. And I find that when I am abiding in that state of equanimity that I tend to miss a lot... or at least not care about inquiring into what is noticed.
I guess I could say it like this... when I am in a state where there is no suffering, I find that there is also minimal growth. When I allow myself to delve into the suffering, I find that there is more opportunity for growth. Does that make things any clearer?
Love!
Carson |
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2012 : 11:28:52 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi Karl,
Well, perhaps our paths are different (sorry, not perhaps, they obviously are) but regardless, I am not trying, and I have no desire to, escape "the clutches of thought." My path is to know myself.... to shed light in every corner so that nothing is hidden.... and noticing my thoughts, and thought patterns is very helpful for this. Having no thoughts, or giving no heed to the thoughts that do come up, is not something I am interested in.
What is nudging me away from a twice daily meditation practice is noticing how it affects my life and those around me. With a twice daily practice set I am either in a state of equanimity so strong that I'm unaffected by everything, OR, I'm in a state of unawareness of myself (this is overload) and end up doing things that in hindsight I wouldn't do if I was more aware.
With regards to control and free will... I know through personal experience that control is an illusion. But, I also know that I am responsible for following my heart. And if my heart is calling me to limit my meditation practice, to ignore that is wrong. For me.
Thanks for the input.
Love!
Carson
Yes, your inner Guru is guiding you.
You cannot be unaffected by everything if you think you are unaffected by anything. It's like being deaf and noticing and making the discovery that you cannot hear anything. If you were unaffected then that would be an end to it. What your describing is a numbness, which is the masking of something and you described that as related to opiates. In other words you know that something is being masked.
I understand that you do not wish to mask things and want to know yourself and face those hidden parts directly. However I didn't want to confuse that with the idea of an enlightened form of dispassion.
I think that many people can use meditation as a safer and more healthy addiction than alcohol, sex or drugs. So, yes. I do understand where you are coming from. You feel that the time has come for you to face up to whatever is on the inside, to get to know that person inside out and end the need for any blunting.
It's a dilemma and not one that I have, so we are definitely on different paths in that regard.
You feel you need to meet yourself first and then go in which ever direction that might be. Then you have your answer, you always did. Thanks for sharing it. |
|
|
|
AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2012 : 12:04:42 PM
|
Not sure I see self-knowledge as something excluding the mind in favor of the heart. Self-knowledge, in my experience, depends on acting in the world as to obtain feedback which makes up that knowledge. The mind is an indispensable tool for that role, but not the parts of it that the jnanis remind us make up its monopoly and severe distortions on just about all aspects of our being.
In my thinking, self-knowledge and self-inquiry cannot risk stopping short and falling into samskaras or any sense of being that simply uphold them. They have to go on to uncover what makes up one's personality as it stands unique but still in relation to all other people, and beyond into the true nature of Self. Again, I imagine there to be no conflict between either self-knowledge and self-inquiry as both reach beyond (according to the jnanis), from the gross and manifested, into the more subtle, unmanifest potential, and the real.
The message I'd consider were I in such a situation (I am not and haven't been) is to be careful not to cut back needlessly, or for reasons that appear and feel valid but on closer observation may betray themselves. And it seems that's what the approach is already, cutting back for overloads but keeping at the incredible momentum built up so far. Giving the body time to adjust might make this all possible. Just some thoughts, and thanks for sharing. |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2012 : 12:46:50 PM
|
I think it is a matter of balance. The state of being unaffected by anything gives the illusion of a state of balance, but it may not be really balanced.
Sometimes I stop meditating for a while because I am getting too light headed and don't feel connected to reality. But then i can get stressed out while i am light headed, and I know the only answer is meditation.
So I meditate just a little, and do lots of grounding. It works pretty well.
I'm always dealing with those personal tendencies, and I feel like I am split in two. The half that has those old tendencies I treat like a pet. I have to give it little treats to keep it friendly. It's pretty easy to ignore it because my awareness says "I don't need any of that stuff", and it's right of course.
But then after a while the pet in me gets all brooding and knows how to get what it wants by twisting my perception. So then it gets what it wants but is not my friend.
So I use little treats to keep this animal friendly and it won't do anything against me.
Then I minimize its influence on me, and it lets go of my perception so I can see better.
This is how i know I could never live as a monastic. I would have this angry beast inside me, gnashing it's teeth, and spending all its time and energy changing my perception. Then I would spend my time fighting back, all the while partially blinded because the monster is twisting my perception.
No thanks. For me, it is much more peaceful to just let my beast of past tendencies (karma etc.) follow me around, and throw him little treats once in a while. He doesn't seem to mind that the treats are only little bits of what he wants a LOT of. He stays happy most of the time, and doesn't even mind me joking about his fading away completely someday. But most importantly, he allows me to dig deeply into his construction, and find out key elements that create his illusion.
So that's when I know I'm the smarter of us two, but I must feed my monster - just a little now and then,
and must not ignore him for long periods of time; I need my perception to be clear. |
|
|
|
Delara
Lebanon
305 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2012 : 2:42:10 PM
|
Hello Carson;
In my opinion,I don't see any hindrance in what you're going through.I find it's a call coming from your inner Silence to feel what you & others are going through especially suffering(pain)
Therefore,I see Love and compassion in what you wrote.
thank you for sharing this.
|
|
|
|
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2012 : 9:29:56 PM
|
Carson! So honest, my brother! Always love your candid and forthright posts.
Sounds like you've been reading too much Adyashanti...LOL. Just kidding. But really, you say you want to know yourself better? Do you think knowing yourself better is contingent upon an in-depth study of your personality traits? Or perhaps, a molding or conscious shaving off of the tendencies that make you a "jerk"--as you say?
Hmmmm...I don't know about you, but I think enlightenment doesn't lead to becoming simply a well-mannered, polite, ego-less personality that never ruffles any feathers (Karl might disagree with me  ). On that note, read the lessons. Yogani states quite clearly that free will is real, especially when born from stillness. It's only an absolutist, advaita view that tries to deny free will, ego, etc. In my opinion, I think you can be a "jerk" and still be an expression of divine love. Gandhi was probably a "jerk" to the British colonial rule, wasn't he? Of course, a non-violent jerk living in the spirit of ahimsa!
All I would say is this: don't doubt the depth of inner silence to which you can go. This state of equanimity you describe (congruent with an opiate-induced haze, as you say) is probably just a plateau. Just another wavelength of scenery. It's most likely a symptom of purification and opening, and because I was a big-time drug user like you, I know what it feels like. I think, in reality, it takes years to detox from all the chemicals we've ingested--especially deep in the nervous system!
By all means, trust your intuition in terms of how much to meditate, or if to meditate at all. My only suggestion would be to not rule out the possibility that meditation can take you deeper, and in such a way that keeps you actively engaged in life as well. Deep Meditation doesn't lead to escapism--it leads to walking right through those dark shadows and nitty-gritty realms you mention. You've already done so much to help with AYP, your family, and your community. Bravo. |
|
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2012 : 9:37:48 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I don't *have* to face my own tendencies and can just "let it all slide" and simply abide in that wonderful sense of "all is perfect as it is."
Having gone through this over the last year, I have intimate appreciation of where you are coming from. It was a big adjustment, the transition to no longer meditating, particularly the first days after stopping and then again months later. I also had become very dependent on the twice daily upswing in equanimity/ bliss and life was very smooth, it was an enjoyable phase, just like kundalini awakening was an enjoyable phase. It was challenging to face emotions raw and vulnerable but the increase in inner silence that had occurred from all those hours of meditation practice is what made it possible to handle the intensities of emotions that I was no longer accustomed. The limited thinking in my mind did become easier to notice and without regular meditation practice, there was no other way then to face what needed to be faced.
My personal opinion is this benefit of meditation can not last forever though I am sure some others will disagree, particularly those who have had it last consistently a long time. That said, personally I would do it all over again and I would enjoy it while it lasts, if/ until life says this is not the way for you anymore then the timing will be right to do it differently. I say this because the body and heart are wise and will lead the way, not with ideas or concepts of what should/ could be done, but with clear physical input and impulses that you can't miss.
After a year of no meditation I can say that the equanimity or the bliss never really goes away completely, but the "insolation" between thoughts and emotions is stripped away. It is all there in plain view, no hiding. One thing I see with certainty, is that the process of becoming unlimited doesn't end with any big realization about our true nature. The trueness of our actions, our understanding of the world of form will continue to expand indefinitely. Not sure about this and think you've reached some end-stage of "enlightenment" then just try something new. |
Edited by - Anthem on May 06 2012 10:14:33 PM |
|
|
|
yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2012 : 11:12:07 PM
|
Hi All:
This question has been coming up in various forms lately, and below is a general answer that might be helpful. It may not apply to everyone who is experiencing the duality of witness versus external activity, and feeling that one must be chosen over the other -- some may be tempted to retreat into the witness to escape daily life, while others may be tempted to run away from the witness for fear of losing their regular daily life.
The answer below does not apply in cases where meditation may be related to overload, where self-pacing and other measures are recommended. Here we are looking at it more from the standpoint of the process of human spiritual transformation...
-----------------------------
The duality of witness and external perceptions is a normal stage that many have experienced. It can also be felt as a kind of separated aloneness, while life goes on quite normally on its own. The sense of duality will pass in time and we will continue on. It is an in-between stage where ego motivation is becoming less, and divine motivation is yet to pick up fully. It is the duality of witnessing. Here is a lesson on it, looking at the loneliness aspect: http://www.aypsite.com/392.html
The natural shift toward a joining of inner and outer life will happen once we have any degree of witnessing. It is not necessarily a dramatic thing. It is just a gradual shift in motivation, and then there is joining of the witness with activities motivated by heart, where they were separate before. The witness is gradually transcended in this process, and that is the rise of unity. We "go out" into the witness, and then we "come back" with the witness into divine flow in the world, and merging in unity. Like that. It is covered in the latter online lessons (and in AYP Vol 2), and in a more focused way in the new book coming out soon, called "Liberation."
On the personal level there is the matter of witnessing in relation to our ongoing assessment of ourselves and our actions in the world, if we try and choose one over the other, it could be a bit of a mental pitfall. It is normal for there to be duality with the rise of the witness, where we have abiding inner silence as subject, and thoughts, feelings and actions as objects. By continuing to be active in the world while cultivating the witness, the inner and outer qualities gradually merge, and that is the arising of unity, which is largely about the expansion of divine love flowing through us -- a heart thing.
At some point we may see ourselves at an in-between stage where the mind is thinking it has to go one way or the other -- toward retreat into the witness, or away from witness into more consideration of self in the world. There might be some fear about losing one or the other, and a reaction away from one side of it. It is a pretty common experience, and the question comes up in different forms fairly often these days.
The witness, as similar as it may seem to a withdrawal from life (a kind of opiate), is not a temporary or unhealthy condition. It is a permanent awakening of our essence. Engaging that condition to whatever degree we have it in everyday living is a natural progression. Ultimately it is not one or the other, it is both. Unity.
The business of understanding ourselves in our daily living is not a bad thing. We all want that, and it will happen. But trying to do it minus the witness, or while attempting to reduce the witness, is going back toward the kind of approach that exists in traditional psychoanalysis, where the mind is used to mine the subconscious. Oddly enough, going deeper is a function of awareness, which is the witness. Limiting cultivation of the witness would seem to be counterproductive in this, since it is the source of recognition of ourselves at all levels. Paradoxically, to the extent we are able to allow the duality of the witness blended with ordinary life, the more of a merging there will be. This is not an abstract thing. The tip-off on the merging is in the outpouring of divine love.
So, whether meditation is a hindrance or not has less to do with the role of the the evolution of the witness, and more to do with self-pacing for a smoother journey, which is always recommended as needed. But I'm not so sure that remapping the process of human spiritual transformation to suit concerns about this transitional stage is going to lead to the best long term outcome. It reminds me of reinventing the procedure of meditation in an effort to create a particular kind of experience, which I get questions on from time to time. It is not conducive for effective meditation.
Likewise, is remapping human spiritual transformation to write the cultivation of abiding inner silence (witness) out of it at some point going to be an effective long term approach?
As time goes on, all of this will work itself out. While the witness may seem like a retreat from life, it is actually the source of a far greater engagement -- unity. What could be more engaged than that? So, to whatever degree we have the witness, and to whatever degree we are inspired to continue cultivating it with meditation, our journey will be correspondingly affected. And along the way, we will come to know ourselves much better too.
How we move through the process is our choice. We each have to do it our own way. No argument on that from here. I am only pointing out some of the dynamics of the evolution of the witness in the overall scheme of human spiritual transformation. The means applied are always up to us.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
|
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2012 : 11:46:29 PM
|
Hi everyone and thanks for all the great feedback and fuel for inquiry.
For me, it all comes down to balance... the balance between living as "inner nature" and living with my "outer nature." How that is achieved at this stage seems to be tricky and I'm sure that it is going to take some time to feel my way there. One thing I know for certain though is that, for me, at this time, twice daily meditation has the balance tipped too far towards the "inner nature."
Based on my interpretation of your above post Yogani, I gather that you think I may be/am trying to "remap the process of human spiritual transformation," but I'm really not. I'm just reporting how things are unfolding for me along the way in hopes of seeing things clearer. It seems to help.
Thanks again everyone for all the great feedback.
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 02:29:46 AM
|
| Thank you Yogani....again |
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 04:12:28 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi everyone and thanks for all the great feedback and fuel for inquiry.
For me, it all comes down to balance... the balance between living as "inner nature" and living with my "outer nature." How that is achieved at this stage seems to be tricky and I'm sure that it is going to take some time to feel my way there. One thing I know for certain though is that, for me, at this time, twice daily meditation has the balance tipped too far towards the "inner nature."
Based on my interpretation of your above post Yogani, I gather that you think I may be/am trying to "remap the process of human spiritual transformation," but I'm really not. I'm just reporting how things are unfolding for me along the way in hopes of seeing things clearer. It seems to help.
Thanks again everyone for all the great feedback.
Love,
Carson
Sometimes it's necessary to wander off the path to understand why we are on it. I get it Carson. It's easy for those of us who have not had your life experiences to see that as a backwards step, but we aren't you. It unfolds as it does and there should be no resistance to it.
@BodhiTree I don't know about anything these days, the firm ground I once stood on has become a fluid sea in which I am nothing more than flotsam being carried along. The further I travel the more I know that nothing is sacred to me, it's constantly evolving, what I was yesterday I am not today.
I'm glad to be in the company of those who accept constant and shifting metamorphism without judgement. I try and do likewise and note any resistance to it as one more little lesson and i am hungry for it. |
|
|
|
axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 05:15:00 AM
|
I shared the experience of Carsonzi.
I got separate from normal life by big amounts of Tibetan mantras. Though tantra the isolating and protection covers where so thick that there was no danger when a woman walked at my side and tried to stimulate. At the same time bad emotions affected me to much. For coming back and grounding more I put my secretary on the lap. I needed time till it worked.
I am skeptical on such never interrupting employment machines for monasteries. Naturally you have to learn being steady in your practice for getting concentration and deeper insights also in the practice. But the promises are to big manipulating you by not giving necessary pieces and informations for reaching such goals.
Dulling meditations can be indeed a hindrance and also the Tibetan monk has as coronation of his career go to the market and meet a low cast fisherwoman for flying into the heaven with her. Also a good catholic shall sexless live like old Joseph and Mary.
Getting other informations needs much time and effort and the readiness to meditate showing also other sex approaches as losing energy for more equinanimity. Nothing to say againstb the production of peace energies by prayers. But it easily produces the trap of special holiness.
Axel |
|
|
|
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 06:57:03 AM
|
Nothing is sacred to you, Karl? Interesting. Quite the opposite has been happening to me as I float along. All seems to be becoming more sacred, more worthy of kind awareness, non-judgmental in its scope. Lately, the earth is especially revealing herself to be a sacred organism, and she calls me to be more conscious of her sanctity, which motivates me to move away from my consumerist habits and more towards sustainable ones.
You know me, I just like to challenge (respectfully) positions that lean to certain sides, but that's probably because I lean to a narcissistic side myself.  I think that's a good balance in the forums (ego playing with no-ego), and I like tossing you whiffle-ball pitches so you can knock them out of the park, as you so skillfully do. You make some illuminating posts.
Man, I am really psyched about the release of Yogani's upcoming addition to the Enlightenment Series: Liberation. I am hungry for THAT! Good literature motivates me to keep up with practices and expand my involvement in the world. I've started drumming a djembe in the gospel group at a metaphysical church. There is unity and divine love there--no doubt about it. You can feel the purity and boundless connections in your bones when the singing and music resound in the sanctuary. |
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 07:39:21 AM
|
Nothing Sacred, meaning a constantly and consciously changing view which requires no permanency. Existing as change on a material level in keeping with the ebb and flow of everything. Doing that with reduced friction and in some cases the complete absence of friction. Working on the sticking points when they inevitably crop up.
I came to see that when I don't allow this expansion and movement to occur then the reaction is thought. I am learning to go wherever the tide is going, occasionally I forget to let that happen and then the thoughts come. The thoughts tell me of how I will drown, be lost, or smashed against rocks, but only when the ebb and flow is resisted. Only when I think that I have control and then the Ego leaps to oblige.
Once I find a sticking point then it is traced to its roots and found not to exist. How many and how strong these attractions and attachments are I don't know. I do know that over time they have become easier and easier to dispense. Each one is less of a jolt and more of a pleasure to solve, it's like the best work in the world and I look forward to each one, like a magnificent jewel. They are full of love. None are meant to harm, only to educate.
I feel that love in almost everything now, where once there were only deserts, now flowers grow. Just like the tin man in the Wizard of Oz, I have discovered the heart that was never really missing. I'm not yet a surging river of out flowing love, but I can see that I'm no longer squeezing a rock. |
|
|
|
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 4:28:34 PM
|
Splendid, Karl. I read you loud and clear. I dig your metaphors and imagery.
Catch you on the flip side.  |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 8:13:22 PM
|
I realized today as I hand tilled my garden, that the word "hindrance" is without a doubt the wrong word to use and that this is really just a topic about self-pacing. I could have titled this topic; "Can you meditate too much?" to which I think we all know the answer. Where we each draw that line between 'just enough' and 'too much' is going to be personal and will change for each individual as we continue to open I think.
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 8:38:31 PM
|
| Now you're getting to the heart of the matter, mate! |
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2012 : 03:10:52 AM
|
It's the tricky mind. DEFCON1 couldn't be maintained in light of the answers given and your willing openness in discussing the issue, so it got down graded to ordinary overload. That's why this forum is so great, it really helps to give perspective and reflection even if the solutions don't entirely fit, the breathing space allows some internal searching and finding our own answers.
I found that twice a day meditation was too much, so I cut back to once a day. I attempted to go back to twice, but found it didn't work well as there seemed a lot of frustration and teeth gnashing during the normal day. Got to do what the Guru says. Less is definitely more.
Glad you found your answer.
|
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2012 : 12:32:51 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Now you're getting to the heart of the matter, mate!
A day of hardcore gardening will do that to anyone. |
|
|
|
Parallax
USA
348 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2012 : 8:13:11 PM
|
Hey Carson,
Love you my brother...admire your honesty, openess and willingness to look deep. You've done a lot of practices, classes and retreats over the past 2yrs; grounding and integration are going to be your good friends for a little while, I suspect, as all of your openings continue to "bake in"...but of course thats just my intuition and has nothing to do with reality
Follow your heart because you've got a good one
Give your beautiful family some hugs for me |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2012 : 11:10:12 PM
|
| I love hardcore gardening. I've been digging up very invasive trees and cutting them up. |
|
|
|
axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2012 : 01:58:15 AM
|
Gardening is a spiritual exercise for Zen monks for training full presence doing nothing else also mentally. Here it is escape from to much kundalini and overload and meditation being no hindrance this way.
Axel |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Can meditation be a hindrance?
