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Originally posted by Ananda

This is the second time where you've of great support and understanding dear Chas both over here and on email... Thank you for your understanding

Much love to you.

Peace,
Ananda

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Originally posted by Kirtanman

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Originally posted by Ananda

Yes dear Chas, this is helpful for someone like me. The advise you have given is pretty much included in what I've mentioned above. What good does it do to that boy with a gun or to those children who are dying out of starvation or sickness. Ramana Maharshi used to say, they are not your responsibility God created them he will take care of them. Whereas a voice in my head is telling me I created you to help them... And I am doing my part but I know I can do much more and I am not giving the whole thing it's due. It feels like I should renounce this material life I am living. But I know that renunciates do and don't think much about the whole thing.

Still no answer to the question why all this. Why the game, why the ignorance of illusion from the place. I remember reading Harilal Poonja better known as Papaji saying in the book nothing ever happened that he couldn't know why. He went to the farthest reaches of self realization yet he never knew why.

I rest my case and take a fall into the unknown on this one. I don't care to know any more better just go out and do something more about the suffering that's happening.

Salam

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Hi Ananda & All,

In my experience, as we open more and more, what falls away is the conditioned need to evaluate and decide.

We begin to navigate more and more by what we're internally drawn to do; we let ourselves flow in more natural ways.

That flowing may involve helping someone in an "on the ground" way, or it may not.

And, in my experience, anyway, bit by bit, we find that we're clearly living more authentically and beneficially for all, observably, regardless of what anyone -- including our own mind -- thinks about it. Just opening to inner silence offers more of a contribution than conditioned mind can understand.




If we feel troubled, conditioned mind is over active, and being relied on too heavily, in my experience.

My oldest daughter sent me a text last night, which contained only this quote:

"If you work on your mind with your mind, how can you avoid immense confusion?"

I replied:

"Exactly! Back *away* from the mind. "

As I'm pretty sure someone somewhere once said:

Mind is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master.

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I understand what you say that questions drop or lose importance. I've experienced that and this question dropped over here also but I don't want to let it go. Everything else makes sense why it doesn't really matter and the experience of Truth makes it so. But the question why even though it may be realized as awareness... And is a dual question in the realm of illusion... Yet here we are... We are here.. Otherwise there wouldn't be this discussion. So really why. If anyone knows how to answer this and give a satisfying answer I'd be very grateful for it.

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Yes dear Chas, this is helpful for someone like me. The advise you have given is pretty much included in what I've mentioned above. What good does it do to that boy with a gun or to those children who are dying out of starvation or sickness. Ramana Maharshi used to say, they are not your responsibility God created them he will take care of them. Whereas a voice in my head is telling me I created you to help them... And I am doing my part but I know I can do much more and I am not giving the whole thing it's due. It feels like I should renounce this material life I am living. But I know that renunciates do and don't think much about the whole thing.

Still no answer to the question why all this. Why the game, why the ignorance of illusion from the place. I remember reading Harilal Poonja better known as Papaji saying in the book nothing ever happened that he couldn't know why. He went to the farthest reaches of self realization yet he never knew why.

I rest my case and take a fall into the unknown on this one. I don't care to know any more better just go out and do something more about the suffering that's happening.

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Originally posted by Parallax

Hi Ananda!

I really appreciate you.

I'm not at the same level of unfoldment as you or many people here, so please excuse this if it seems a bit simple-minded or too much of a thought "framework". I've always thought that we are called to incarnate in this life to learn lessons that will push us forward in our spiritual unfoldment, and to serve as a teacher to others for their spiritual evolution.

So why are children running with guns and other such things that would break my heart to pieces to see? I don't know. But I speculate that perhaps these children need to be fully immersed in such violence to ultimately realize that violence is not the answer. Or a man that is beaten to death was here to serve as an instrument of teaching to the people doing the beating...perhaps one day in the future (either in this life or from the vantage point of the herafter) they willl look back at what they've done with such remorse that they turn from violence to a life of peace and dedicate themselves to being an agent of good that ultimately helps many many people. And the person that they killed played the role of the catalyst for something that was ultimately very positive. Its just very hard to see the course of how it all plays out from the snapshot of a moment in time. Particularly when the view in the moment is so disturbing.

Is this how it really is? I don't know. But I did get a message from my mom, who passed away 20yrs ago from a long, painful battle with cancer that to me seemed like such pointless suffering. And what she told me was that she would go through it all again *in a heartbeat* for the spiritual benefits that she received after she died. It was something I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy, but there she was saying she'd go through it all again without a second thought. It really gave me a lot of comfort that the awful things that we endure in this life serve a purpose that ends up being very good for everybody involved...in the fullness of time.

Not sure if this is at all helpful, but it felt like it needed to come out of me...so there it is

Much love to you dear brother

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Originally posted by Delara

Hello All;

Ananda!
I double what someone said before-maybe it was Etherfish-that we can help only if they are open to receive this help.

From my experience,my reality drifted away from violence (physical & non physical) gradually since we met & later on when I started on the pathless path of spirituality

When it comes to my surrounding,as I've mentioned before,it's improving!!From everyday gun fights to once every week.Quite an improvement taking into consideration it's the most sensitive area when it comes to political conflicts !there's a change I can feel & see it.

Even my friends who would not think twice to get into fights are becoming calmer & non violent!like the last inevitable fight that happened two days back...It ended peacefully.

So All in All,personally...I see people don't have to be so violent & change can happen.However,I stopped judging those who are not willing to change,it's not their time yet!

All Love

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Originally posted by Anthem11

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Yes dear Chas, this is helpful for someone like me. The advise you have given is pretty much included in what I've mentioned above. What good does it do to that boy with a gun or to those children who are dying out of starvation or sickness. Ramana Maharshi used to say, they are not your responsibility God created them he will take care of them. Whereas a voice in my head is telling me I created you to help them... And I am doing my part but I know I can do much more and I am not giving the whole thing it's due. It feels like I should renounce this material life I am living. But I know that renunciates do and don't think much about the whole thing.

Still no answer to the question why all this. Why the game, why the ignorance of illusion from the place. I remember reading Harilal Poonja better known as Papaji saying in the book nothing ever happened that he couldn't know why. He went to the farthest reaches of self realization yet he never knew why.

I rest my case and take a fall into the unknown on this one. I don't care to know any more better just go out and do something more about the suffering that's happening.

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I can't speak to the extreme examples you have given at the beginning of this thread but can only speak from personal experience.

I personally can't imagine a way this world could be more perfect. This in itself probably reads as an extreme statement but it depends on what angle you are looking at life from.

If you are looking from the perspective that the world should be a positive, loving, kind place where people continuously support one another and live to be in harmony with the people, animals and environment around them, then this is pretty far from paradise. No argument there.

If you are looking at this world from the perspective that all of it is God's creation and that life is about accepting every aspect of our true nature which is God's nature, including the good, the bad and the ugly, then this world is designed to teach this perfectly. If i judge someone and have no understanding of how they could act a particular way, then I cut part of myself off from the whole. If I look inside and am able to imagine how I could conceivably act in that same way, given extreme circumstances, given extreme upbringing, believing extreme thoughts built upon extreme reasoning, then I see myself in the other no matter how remote the possibility of this actually happening.

What can I do about it or how can I help? I couldn't possibly know, what inner heart urges I guess and continue along the path and learn all that God teaches me. Also, so very, very grateful to those brave souls for taking on those inconceivably hard lessons so I don't have to.

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Originally posted by Shanti

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I understand what you say that questions drop or lose importance. I've experienced that and this question dropped over here also but I don't want to let it go. Everything else makes sense why it doesn't really matter and the experience of Truth makes it so. But the question why even though it may be realized as awareness... And is a dual question in the realm of illusion... Yet here we are... We are here.. Otherwise there wouldn't be this discussion. So really why. If anyone knows how to answer this and give a satisfying answer I'd be very grateful for it.

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Hi Ananda,
There are some things, that no one else can answer for us... we have to see for ourselves. Asking questions is good, but trying to find an answer outside of ourselves will only lead to confusion. There was a person at the retreat last week, he wanted an answer from us, he said, help me... I want to know who am I? None of us would tell him, we all said the same thing, you have to find the answer for yourself. If we tell you, you will form an idea of what the answer should be like and get caught up in that idea and never be able to see for yourself ... the answer has to be your own... the answer is beyond the mind, in silence... so keep at it and you will know from within.

I will say the same thing here. Trying to understand this with the mind will only cause a lot of confusion. The best is to let it go in silence. Let the answer come to you. Each one here has their own understanding they bring to the discussion. Each of the replies are correct, because it comes from their silence... when they try to put that understanding into words though, it passes through their human filter and is expressed differently... So you have to find your own answer, in silence. Once you know from within, the question will disappear (like my younger daughter tells me, when I have an answer on the inside, it does not have a meaning to the mind, but there is peace inside, and I know I have my answer).

Much love!

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Yes dear Chas, this is helpful for someone like me. The advise you have given is pretty much included in what I've mentioned above. What good does it do to that boy with a gun or to those children who are dying out of starvation or sickness. Ramana Maharshi used to say, they are not your responsibility God created them he will take care of them. Whereas a voice in my head is telling me I created you to help them... And I am doing my part but I know I can do much more and I am not giving the whole thing it's due. It feels like I should renounce this material life I am living. But I know that renunciates do and don't think much about the whole thing.

Still no answer to the question why all this. Why the game, why the ignorance of illusion from the place. I remember reading Harilal Poonja better known as Papaji saying in the book nothing ever happened that he couldn't know why. He went to the farthest reaches of self realization yet he never knew why.

I rest my case and take a fall into the unknown on this one. I don't care to know any more better just go out and do something more about the suffering that's happening.

Salam

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Originally posted by Ananda

Finally I'd like to share this beautiful song which Chas shared with me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwI9...gdata_player
In God's hands

Love to All [img]icon_heart.gif[/img]

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Originally posted by Ananda

From within and without... I don't believe anyone can no answer to that...

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To be honest my ego took a little pride in some of what you mentioned... So I felt somehow it's wrong.. My approach that is.

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yes, be Authentic. Be as you are. Destroy the cage that you love so much and break out.

There is a story that a bird sat in a cage and watched the birds flying free in the open air. The bird longed to escape and fly with them.

One day the birds keeper accidentally left the door of the cage open. The bird could hardly believe its luck. It watched the other birds for a while, waiting for the perfect moment.

It waited and waited and waited some more. It waited so long that it never heard the cage door gently being closed and locked once more.

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Originally posted by karl

yes, be Authentic. Be as you are. Destroy the cage that you love so much and break out.

There is a story that a bird sat in a cage and watched the birds flying free in the open air. The bird longed to escape and fly with them.

One day the birds keeper accidentally left the door of the cage open. The bird could hardly believe its luck. It watched the other birds for a while, waiting for the perfect moment.

It waited and waited and waited some more. It waited so long that it never heard the cage door gently being closed and locked once more.

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Originally posted by karl

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Originally posted by Ananda

From within and without... I don't believe anyone can no answer to that...

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Beat your higher sense of spiritual progress to death the answers get hidden behind your own sense of spiritual development. Sometimes we build this kingdom in the air, it isolates but leaves questions unanswered.

Don't be afraid to smash it all up, if it's real it will endure anyway. You need to knock the barrier down. It's like the Crysalis which forms around the catapillar, if the metamorphism to a butterfly is complete then the protective layer is no longer needed. It seems like you made the transition, if you haven't then you will know there is more work still to do.

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Originally posted by Katrine

Hi Ananda

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To be honest my ego took a little pride in some of what you mentioned... So I felt somehow it's wrong.. My approach that is.

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See this is exactly what I am talking about......we judge ourselves, and in the identification with that judgement shedding light on ourselves becomes impossible. So you felt pride. This is a goldmine.......Inquire here then. Get to know that part of you, do not dive into a feeling of there being something wrong with you just because that feeling doesn't correspond with what you feel is the result of enlightenment! For example....pride is pride...how do you know that the pride you felt does not come from a place of recognition of something essential? Look so you can find out.

Finding out what it is to be a real human being includes everything.

It includes being willing to not have a "better life". It is so easy to get lost in ideas of a better life....so easy to reject what is here. We must be willing to do all we can.......to see all that we are capable of.....to cultivate that in us that opens the heart eye further.......and to act on what we see......and still NOT expect enlightenment.

When we do what we must......what is implicit in our human and essential nature will come forward. It may mean that full realisation will not happen this time around. There is absolutely nothing we can do to change that. But the thing is....when we are authentic, when we are ourselves in every way, then we are expressing from eternity. It is heaven on earth and we do not even have to think about the whole picture. It takes care of itself as always.

As soon as we do what we must......the why ceases. Until it ceases we keep shifting until we find ourselves where we are. For a long time this finding ourselves exactly where we are comes and goes. Because we evade ourselves.....we do not like what we see. But exactly what we see.....is exactly where we are at all times. Here is where the eye opens further. So.....instead of comparing ourselves to the big picture and always falling short.....or being comfortable on a pedestal somewhere.......it truly is a better life
to stay where one factually is. The deepening is organic and wholesome then.


Much love Ananda

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