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Guardian4981
USA
12 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 11 2012 : 7:59:08 PM
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So today I was meditating, I got to a point where I couldn't feel the boundary of where my body ended or the couch began. I think I was in the silence and felt pretty good. But then out of nowhere I had thoughts of my uncle who died 5 years ago and I was close to. Then I felt tears, the mantra started to get more erratic and difficult to maintain then I just started crying uncontrollably. I have not cried in probably 10 years...
I am not sure what to make of this, I thought meditation is supposed to help your life but it seems to be bringing up alot of old memories some not very good ones. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2012 : 8:36:05 PM
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Thanks for sharing, Guardian. 
The key words to rememeber are "purification and opening". Meditation is a house cleaning that goes deep into the past. Part of the past contains emotions that have been stored in the nervous system, and some of them may be intense.
When I first started meditating, I was going through a divorce, so I cried quite a bit. But it was such a relief when the tears would subside, and all that would remain was the stillness. That is what remains...the mantra and inner stillness. But getting to this stillness requires allowing awareness to effortlessly navigate through the terrain and matrix of our obstructions that keep us from a constant presence of that stillness. Hence, the use of the mantra as an object to be easily favored, repeated consistently as it is refined to the Source of all sounds, form, and emotions (good and bad).
But, if the emotions are too intense, use self-pacing and back off the practice.
Stay brave, fellow warrior.  |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2012 : 8:37:12 PM
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Hi Guardian
quote:
I am not sure what to make of this, I thought meditation is supposed to help your life but it seems to be bringing up alot of old memories some not very good ones.
Sounds like you are going through a "you gotta wipe away the sh*t before you can see the shine" phase. This will come and go, in varying degrees, forever (or so it seems from my experience). Just be kind to yourself, self pace as much as you need to stay in balance/comfortable, and this too shall pass.
Much love,
Carson  |
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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2012 : 8:48:09 PM
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| I went through many years without ever crying also. My solution to being broken hearted was to become hard hearted and closed off emotionally. In the past year I've cried many times when I'm emotional. I am just glad to be feeling again, and not so numb to everything. |
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wigswest
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2012 : 10:50:28 PM
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Oh my gosh, this is so where I am right now :)
Went thru an abusive childhood, my defense was to totally repress emotions. Now, 50 years later, they've come back in a huge way (in response to my incorporating witnessing meditation into my practice - WOW does that stir some stuff up!), and I'm having to respect and honor them this time around. Which has meant some big-time emotional upheavals during meditation.
My meditations for the last few weeks have involved just sitting with whatever emotions want to surface. Some of them have been monstrous, and incredibly painful. But it makes all the difference in the world to know that this is the path that leads toward healing and wholeness :)
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 06:57:59 AM
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dear Guardian
as everybody said this is great purification,release and opening....me too i excel in crying lolll
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 08:54:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
dear Guardian
as everybody said this is great purification,release and opening....me too i excel in crying lolll
Well can you stop it for a bit. The moisture is causing too much cloud and I can't get a good view of the sky with the new telescope. I've got some nice new eyepieces so I can have a good look at some galactic and nebulaoc illusions. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 09:47:39 AM
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2012 : 12:52:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
Well can you stop it for a bit. The moisture is causing too much cloud and I can't get a good view of the sky with the new telescope. I've got some nice new eyepieces so I can have a good look at some galactic and nebulaoc illusions.
Karl, you'll just to have resort to Cosmic Samyama, I'm afraid. These are desperate times in the realm of intergalactic observation, so when big salty tears cloud the viewing instruments, the mind-rooted-in-stillness must suffice. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2012 : 4:57:17 PM
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| Guardian, what everybody else said above (purification and opening). Also, simply give yourself permission - it is totally OK to feel whatever you feel! Deep emotions, even painful ones, are part of our unique human experience. Personally, I enjoy a good cry at times. And yes, I continue to experience moments in meditation where something gets dredged up from deep in my psyche - offer it up and let it go. If you have an Ishta, give it to Him/Her. Be glad, because the fact that it is coming up to your attention means that you are experiencing purification and being liberated from the karmic burden! It is a healing process. Bless you, and carry on. Love. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2012 : 7:06:22 PM
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You don't have to concentrate on the stories that caused bad emotions in the past.
Only the emotions are important, not the story that caused them.
You stored them originally because you didn't want to experience them,so you put it off.
So now, as you experience them, you can have closure, and release of that obstacle. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 03:36:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
You don't have to concentrate on the stories that caused bad emotions in the past.
Only the emotions are important, not the story that caused them.
You stored them originally because you didn't want to experience them,so you put it off.
So now, as you experience them, you can have closure, and release of that obstacle.
That's sort of reversed? The event is important, the emotion isn't. Did you mean it's the emotion causing the problem? Or the made up story out of context with the event?
Generally in therapy the idea is to release the emotion around an event by putting the event in its proper context. It also helps to minimise the event, I usually do that by getting someone to see themselves in the event and then to fly above the event at a great distance, which gives attenuated and an easier time of bringing the necessary resources to cope.
The emotion is a result of a lack of resource at the time. The first time the emotion is triggered is the root cause.
As example I had a client who was struggling with guilt and anger. She was overcome with it in certain situations and put it down to an argument with her husband. When we finally got back to the key event, it was at pre-school / nursery level, where she had been accused of stealing another child's toy. She had not understood what was happening and had no defense. That emotion was guilt and anger.
Because we are pattern seeking we always look for/ create similar circumstances which are self affirming and so the unnecessary emotion continues to be fed.
The story or event is important because it is this that forms the learning. so for instance if you burn your finger on a cooker plate you don't take it that it was a punishment for something you did, but you understand that touching hot plates is dangerous. There is no need to re-experience the emotions, or pain as that is counter productive and re-in forces the story.
This conflicts slightly with AYP in which we fully experience just the emotion. Mostly that is safe enough if you have the resources to cope by having sufficient stillness. I think it's a block for those where the emotion springs out before they are competent to deal with it.
Particular concerns are trauma sufferers such as soldiers diagnosed PTSD.
I have thought for a while that a combination of things would work more effectively. A bit like hot baths, pain killers , massage, stretching, correct diet to sooth a sore muscle.
It allows some flexibility. I always say " whatever works" is the best approach. |
Edited by - karl on Feb 17 2012 03:39:35 AM |
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Swan
India
256 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 04:22:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
You don't have to concentrate on the stories that caused bad emotions in the past.
Only the emotions are important, not the story that caused them.
You stored them originally because you didn't want to experience them,so you put it off.
So now, as you experience them, you can have closure, and release of that obstacle.
That's sort of reversed? The event is important, the emotion isn't. Did you mean it's the emotion causing the problem? Or the made up story out of context with the event?
I agree with etherfish. In the journey of self awareness, the emotion is more important.
Because the event is by definition a past event - which we can not change or alter. What we are left with is the memory, perception, or the emotion, and those are stored within us. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 05:06:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Swan
quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
You don't have to concentrate on the stories that caused bad emotions in the past.
Only the emotions are important, not the story that caused them.
You stored them originally because you didn't want to experience them,so you put it off.
So now, as you experience them, you can have closure, and release of that obstacle.
That's sort of reversed? The event is important, the emotion isn't. Did you mean it's the emotion causing the problem? Or the made up story out of context with the event?
I agree with etherfish. In the journey of self awareness, the emotion is more important.
Because the event is by definition a past event - which we can not change or alter. What we are left with is the memory, perception, or the emotion, and those are stored within us.
Hi Swan,
I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing. That's why I am asking.
I'm also not certain that that is anything to do with AYP practices. I have not read anything that suggests that we do anything other than meditate and self pace if we are having symptoms of overload ( of which emotion is certainly one ). Yogani doesn't encourage dwelling on the emotion or the events
It has become a theme that we experience the emotions completely. I have gone through the trauma of that myself. I should have possibly considered that overloading?
Emotion is no more or less real than the even with which it is attached. If we learn what we need from the event, the emotion is disconnected, or should I say, no longer needed. It was a false thing caused by lack of knowledge.
Without memory of events we would have no reference at all. It does not matter if these events didn't actually happen but just appeared "in the moment" , this is how we function. Emotional response that is "justified" is part of being a human being. It is the irrational responses which cause issues.
We seem to have added this "emotional experiencing" into the mix, yet it is not mentioned in anything I have read within the context of Yoga, or AYP.
I would welcome a broad discussion in case I have missed something, or we have done what often happens in religions, and appropriated something slightly skewed , which appears to fit.
Was it always a part of AYP and Yoga, or has it been added ? |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 05:52:50 AM
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Karl, this lesson should be highly refreshing and relieve your uncertainty:
Transforming Emotional Energy for Enlightenment -- http://www.aypsite.org/340.html
If you read that lesson, it seems to be quite clear that emotions can be actively used as energy to bring us closer to our chosen ideal. We can "experience the emotions completely" (as you say), but we can also choose to do something with those emotions--i.e., direct them to a higher ideal. Personally, I like to curse God when the emotion of anger arises (rather than cursing a friend or family member, for instance). God, why are you keeping us from the unbounded awareness and joy that, deep down, we know is possible!? How much longer!?
Hope that resonates with you. |
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Swan
India
256 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 06:12:48 AM
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Well, let us consider somebody, for an example, under severe trauma from some mishap or accident. The person will behave in a irrational and unstable way to any mental anchor that somehow (closely or subtly) reminds him of the event. However, the event is past the person is not going through the same anymore - this is obvious to others but unfortunately not for the person under trauma. Now when talking about trauma, these are extreme emotions, source is easily detectable, we have and need medications for those, so that is a different story.
However, when they are subtle (so much harder to hunt), they don’t stop us from being or behaving ‘normal’ – but that does not mean we don’t have them. The emotion/thought from our experiences form our behavior or reaction pattern (and I am concerned about the negative ones). We carry them and they bind us and stop us from seeing the truth. If we can remove them, our awareness is increased and we are free from yet another chain of fixated thought (is this what we call blockage – at the mental level?)
I am not good at theory of yoga, I learned very little, just whatever I learned resonates with me so I started practicing – so I am not the best person to tell you well how much it is related to yoga. (For background – my spiritual study started with AYP and I am yet to read all the lessons, and some scattered reading previously – not serious though). But I believe, when we talk about blockage, those piled up emotions are part of it. So yes it is a part of yoga. And I think karma is also related to this.
You said - “If we learn what we need from the event, the emotion is disconnected, or should I say, no longer needed” – the learning of the mind is highly questionable, this is why we try to unlearn. And if we think emotions are stored, then we got to cleanse them out as and when they are no longer needed.
You have brought up a solid question which is making me think deeper. Let us try to find the answer.
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Swan
India
256 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 06:14:41 AM
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| Bodhi Tree, we cross posted, thanks for the lesson - I will go through it |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 08:22:36 AM
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I didn't necessarily put that lesson and what we and this discussion together. I can see that thinking a way out of a situation might be a trap, although when I do this with TLT it's always about positive response and it works very well, though it is less holistic than Yoga and might I say, a damned sight quicker to get people up and functioning
Anyway, I agree after re-reading that lesson, although turning of energy like that isn't an easy thing for a newcomer to practices. It's hard to remember in some ways because I no longer get much, if any of the deep seated stuff, it's usually quick flashes which I probably don't direct in that way.....instead I self inquire or let them go to stillness ( effectively the same thing ) .
Interesting stuff. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 09:01:48 AM
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thx for the lesson...have not read that one yet...i am definitely the person who curses and use the horn in traffic jam especially when late to work....i do it and observe myself loosing control so the next moment i will be laughing at myself and at the entire silly situation....i am late so what? to hell with it is all especially my job....the lesson does provide a new perspective that i will try just now cause i have to be somewhere in 45 minutes and i am kind of late  |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 09:24:37 AM
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Karl wrote:
"The story or event is important because it is this that forms the learning. so for instance if you burn your finger on a cooker plate you don't take it that it was a punishment for something you did, but you understand that touching hot plates is dangerous. There is no need to re-experience the emotions, or pain as that is counter productive and re-in forces the story."
Anger forms when your ego thinks someone (or some thing) is wrong, and it is hurting you as a result. Anger is useful at the time of the event, because you can stop whatever is hurting you.
As you said, after the event is over, the anger is no longer useful, because you can't change what happened. Anger is stored as some kind of physical tension, like tensing a muscle, to remind us later to experience the anger we refused to experience at the time.
Often we got angry because we made the person wrong who was hurting us. So if we return to the event, we return to making that person wrong when it is too late to correct them. So often people will remember to hate that person, and it can generate more anger in the present. But if you just experience the anger without the event, it can be let go without hating in the moment.
Since the event is over, all you really need is to release the physical tension in your body, which is connected to pure anger.
What is to be learned from an event where we stored anger? To express the anger while the event happens, not later. Maybe that is what your other techniques help with.
But all those old events where you did it wrong only teach one thing: express your emotions when they occur. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 09:53:51 AM
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Most of the causal events around complex emotions occur vey early in life ( during TLT we do allow for birth, pre-birth and past life ). Young children cannot express their emotions, except for anger and frustration. Sometimes these complex emotions are already transferred prior to birth ( I don't know this is true, but it certainly happens a lot).
It's that early programming that is difficult to release. |
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Swan
India
256 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 10:53:15 AM
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those emotions/programmings keep pulling us unnecessarily in a vicious circle of false cognition, around the source of the emotion. This stops us from being free and still, and from focusing on 'here and now.' If not handled properly, we unknowingly carry them beyond early life.
etherfish, is expressing the emotion (outward) that necessary? because being a social animal, I think there are few places left in our life where we can actually express our emotions as it is. so i was thinking that may be recogniging and inquiring over it and letting it go/droping it (more of inward) is a better idea?
Karl, what does TLT mean? i tried googling but it seems i have not found the correct answer.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 10:58:09 AM
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It is Time Line Therapy. You probably won't find much on the actual technique as it has to be taught. Its very effective. I learned and experienced various forms of therapy before discovering Yoga.
I'm told it is being used to help returning soldiers.
http://www.nlpcoaching.com/TLT_Chapter1.pdf
The above give some background. Tad James is the creator of the modern version of the techniques. |
Edited by - karl on Feb 17 2012 11:03:57 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 2:42:38 PM
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The heart is the epicenter of emotions. Yogani says that one of the energetic components in the enlightenment process is the melting of the heart.
I can personally confirm this phenomenon. It's been happening quite frequently. In my chest there is often lots of warmth, and many sensations coursing through the surrounding nadis in an inward/outward flow. I've also braved uncomfortable swells of empathic pain when I suffer with people around me (like my brother)--there's a tightening in the chest. Thank God, the tightening has subsided, and there is more SPACE in the HEART as I progress. Space to experience the emotions, space to understand their relationship to my life, and space to be compassionate, whereas I used to be guarded, highly rational, defensive.
An open heart is a necessary strength to commence with the outflow of divine love (which is unconditional but wise with discernment). If one chooses to rely upon a system of mental algorhythms, psychological strategies, and conditioned regulation, I think it would be difficult to allow for the heart to be OPEN and WILD. Indeed, there is something quite WILD in this energy flowing through the chest. Wild--yet tender, truthful, and deeply connected to the rest of life.
But, to each his own! Whatever works! |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Feb 17 2012 2:55:28 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 3:18:57 PM
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Nice about the heart.
I have that too, it's connected to people as if it has it's own direction independent of mind. Sometimes it feels like a chest full of warm treacle circulating from stomach to heart. It gives intuition, an understanding of things and people. Like you it's expanding. At the moment it seems like a flower bid, about to burst.
It's got some similarities to a feeling a few months back which was more energetic, like something was squeezing me against a wall. This time it's not intense and is flowing outwards. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 6:44:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Swan
etherfish, is expressing the emotion (outward) that necessary? because being a social animal, I think there are few places left in our life where we can actually express our emotions as it is. so i was thinking that may be recogniging and inquiring over it and letting it go/droping it (more of inward) is a better idea?
Expressing the emotion is the best way to deal with it, as it first comes out. But there is a difference between letting someone know you are angry, and yelling and throwing stuff. the most important thing is that you feel the emotion and pay attention to the feelings. You don't want the emotion to go inward. Children do this, and it stores anger. You may see them getting angry, then taking a deep breath, and swallowing, or pushing down their diaphragm. This stores the emotion.
Truly letting go of the emotion makes it go out, not in.
You can always express your emotions to other people, just tell them "That makes me angry" or whatever it is. Just don't exaggerate and "act it out", as those things are often inappropriate. If you can't say it to the person causing it, just say it out loud not caring who hears it.
If none of that is possible, at least put your whole attention on the physical feeling of the emotion until it goes away. |
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