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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 13 2012 : 12:10:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
Those who are heavy weights in this website, are the ones who have, sorry to say the ego inflated, are ready to say others there are many paths, but then they stick to their own strong based ideas, and do not accept diversity...
Yes, there are many paths, but people will not just accept what you say just because you believe it. What they will accept is you telling us about your own experiences that lead you to believe your path.
The problem is, many people believe certain writings are the absolute truth, so they quote those writings as if we should accept them as truth.
But AYP is based upon practices, and what works for people today.
So talking about things like death is not likely to get you very many followers, because it can't be verified.
Different people have differing opinions, and we only tend to change our practices when someone brings reports of positive effects.
Anyway, start another subject about something you have experienced from practices you have done, and it is more likely to get positive responses.
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2012 : 12:48:19 PM
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Hi Harsharan: I think I might understand what you're arguing.... How can we know we're in communion with the guru inside us if we're so completely deluded by our minds and egos? How can we hear what the divine is saying when we don't stop to listen and don't develop discernment between what is real and everlasting and what is illusory?
I don't have a good answer for that. I know the divine is in me somewhere. I know it on a gut level. But until I experience it directly and have developed the ability to discern between real and not real, it will be nothing more than a belief. I don't put too much weight on beliefs. People kill and die for their beliefs, and I think that gets humanity into a whole world of trouble.
However, I don't need to believe anything in order for the practices to work. Meditation and Samyama especially are having a real, perceptible affect on how I handle the world around me, and that is a profoundly good thing. 
The word "guru" doesn't have any special meaning for me, although I know it does for many who contribute to this website. What "the guru is in you" does for me is it makes self-betterment (healing, becoming whole) into something that is within my grasp. I can get up 20 minutes earlier in the morning and meditate on my mantra. I absolutely will not go off in search of a guru and leave my husband and children behind. That and, given my past experiences as a preacher's kid, I doubt I have the ability to trust anyone as a guru might expect to be trusted. Any guru will have to EARN my trust, and it will not be easy. So maybe I have some work to do before I'm ready for an external guru. Maybe I don't need one. I don't know the answer, but I will definitely continue to do my daily meditation.
Lots-o-Love,
--Liz |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2012 : 1:43:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
....
So talking about things like death is not likely to get you very many followers, because it can't be verified.
Well really this holds true for the entire thread. Any talk of death is speculation for people who are living -- right? And the talk of cheating death, etc. seemed to me also an unverifiable belief. Though I must admit that I have far less aversion to the notion of death than I have to the notion of cheating death. The notion of cheating death is to me rather abhorrent. |
Edited by - whippoorwill on Feb 13 2012 9:51:24 PM |
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showup
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2012 : 09:03:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
It seems, some are fascinated by ridhhis siddhis...and thus make that objective as goal, and just beacuse having read some books and memorized them...does not mean, one should boost out the ego within; feeling superior to the fellow members giving their opinion on this website....Instead of teaching the alphabet of yoga...better practice what you say, and see the difference then. Enlightment starts with humility.
I am very sorry to say that there is a misunderstanding here. My mentioning as “I do not want to teach here alphabets of yoga” is an expression of frustration. I got frustrated because the topic was again and again coming back to squire one even after providing substantial evidences from texts and from modern research. It is not an expression of ego.
@harsharan000
Is it really necessary that someone has to be egoistic because they are refusing to offer you something? Or all the people who refuse to offer are egoistic? Well, I am not sure about this. It is easy to blame some one.
quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
If anything is written in adifferent way, than your similar ideas, you just consciously or unconsciously push out that person outside...
And if you do blame some one, how are you again anticipating an active contribution from them?
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2012 : 10:40:50 AM
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Excuse me Showup, I sensed out from your post some type of forcing... one may disagree with someone, but respect should be there...that is important...mockery or sarcasm should not be made out of someone...each and everyone are at different levels of consciousness...there should be no hard and fast rules...the main thing is respect and a sense of being helpful, and truthful as much as possible...but nothing should be forced on anybody...let each and everyone decide what has to be done...that much freedom should be there.
One should offer something if one has to offer it...if accepted o.k, if not, than too o.k.
No bitterness at all, but as I said...respect should be there.
For me, there is no problem. Thanks to His grace... I am that much stronger...that even if I am left alone in the world...I do not care, because I know where I stand and where I have to move...that nobody can change me.
Of course I would like to share what I have learnt as said, from the saints...but I also know, each and everyone has to run its own course of life...nobody can alter....though any (good) interactions with people(maybe not accepted, at that time)shall definetely make their impressions on their minds(sanskaras), and these shall someday sprout out...anything good, does never go in waste...
We have to be yogis in true nature...not getting affected by anything pleasant or unpleasant...not because we are not humans, but because of the transitory and decaying nature of the creation...nothing is permanent...then, worry, to whom for?
That is what Krishna told Arjuna , in the battlefield, remember?
May God bless you with peace and love!
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Edited by - harsharan000 on Feb 14 2012 10:46:51 AM |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2012 : 03:14:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
There is not much to be learnt....because only vague answers are given....and this is just because of self deceptive ego...only superficial and words empty of contents...just because each one has graved very deep their own connclusions...so if anything though reasonable and logical is presented, is taken lighty and answered with sarcasm.
Those who are heavy weights in this website, are the ones who have, sorry to say the ego inflated, are ready to say others there are many paths, but then they stick to their own strong based ideas, and do not accept diversity...
If anything is written in adifferent way, than your similar ideas, you just consciously or unconsciously push out that person outside...
your path is intelectual worked out in mental speheres, though discipline is there...while the path I am talking about is pure spiritual, worked out through devotion... so that is why, we have these clashes... but anyhow...best of luck... as I said the power and effects of maya is very much impressed on almost everybody, that the truths presented in a simple and direct manner is taken as hurting....but remember it is the ego which is hurt...my intention was just to share with you all what i have learnt from the saints, taking you all as brothers and sisters...anyhow may God bless you...
With regard to the personalities and discussions on this particular forum, certainly it is true that like people everywhere, we have our own opinions based on our unique experiences and education and there are bound to be clashes sometimes. However, I must say compared to the other forums which I have participated in, the people at AYP are both the best-educated and the most open-minded that I have ever met. There is wonderful sincerity and depth to our conversations and the people here have shown me so much love and acceptance!
I do appreciate your contribution, especially with regard to "intellect" versus "devotion." My own path is devotional; for me the intellect has a role to play, but only a limited one (because the ego/monkey-mind loves to run with the intellect and can easily get carried away... :) But we can all, regardless of our personal orientation, benefit from the basic practices such as deep meditation, spinal breathing and samyama which do not depend on our opinion to produce their beneficial results. As for "the guru is in you" and how to tell, I would quote Jesus, "know a tree by its fruits," (as Etherfish and others have mentioned). My feeling is that if you are completely devoted and cultivate that devotion, God/ Brahman/ Krishna will not allow you to be mislead by evil entities. Anyway, thanks for your insightful comments. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2012 : 08:41:17 AM
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Absolutely. It is in fact the intellect that doubts the integrity of the inner guru. The mind is what thinks about evil.
Now I will tell you the most amazing thing that your mind will not believe, but I have found to be true:
You can use your inner guru to test if it is good for you or not!
Once you have found silence, and your inner guru consistently answers your questions correctly, ask it "How can I know that you are from a divine source, and want what is best for me?"
Your mind will tell you that you cannot trust, and it could deceive. Then ask it to give an answer that could not possibly be tricked. I have found that you WILL get an answer that could not be devised by an evil entity.
The answer i got is only for me, because each person understands differently, and also if I give you my answer then it could be tricked when you get it. You have to get your own, personal answer.
But of course, watch the fruits as Rasharani said so your mind will be reassured. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Feb 15 2012 08:43:32 AM |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2012 : 10:27:40 AM
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Hi everybody: Radharani, Whirlpool, Eterfish, Karl...Thank you really very much, for your kind and comforting words. It is just o.k. I am fine. After passing many stages through life, living in different cultures, religions, I have come to a point, that only through His grace, I am so much satisfied with what I know now, and knowing at all times where I am standing, walking and where I am aiming my goal...so no matter, how so ever anybody agrees with me or not... My faith does not waver.
I just want to share the goodness i have collected all through all my life...and yet I am imperfect...I have a lot of way to travel ahead.
It is like when you are a traveler, you pass through different cities, villages...there are different people whom you meet and interact along the way, with some you get well, others are not interested...but than that is all life about...but always keeping in mind, your goal and not getting affected by anything, because the way is long and hard, but in the end the goal to achieve is more than indescribable.
Yoga or spiritual (devotional) path...both of them have one thing in common...focused concentration, discipline, dedication, constant practice... to enter a different plane of consciousness than the physical (call it chakras or energetic centers, or even levels of consciousness...)
Both at some point, use repetition of mantras for that purpose.
Now I am not going to say which is better or which should be practiced...as that each one has to decide for him/herself...the main thing is no enforcement should be done...it has to come from within...each and every soul has a way to walk out, not all flowers or fruits, though on the same tree have the same maturity of ripening...
Any good practices should make us more humans, more benevolent, merciful, humble, with power to forgive and love... if it is so, than the path is worthy...otherwise we are just cheating ourselves
Once again thanks to all of you...
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Edited by - harsharan000 on Feb 15 2012 10:35:50 AM |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2012 : 7:02:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
Hi everybody: Radharani, Whirlpool, Eterfish, Karl...Thank you really very much, for your kind and comforting words. It is just o.k. I am fine. After passing many stages through life, living in different cultures, religions, I have come to a point, that only through His grace, I am so much satisfied with what I know now, and knowing at all times where I am standing, walking and where I am aiming my goal...so no matter, how so ever anybody agrees with me or not... My faith does not waver.
I just want to share the goodness i have collected all through all my life...and yet I am imperfect...I have a lot of way to travel ahead.
It is like when you are a traveler, you pass through different cities, villages...there are different people whom you meet and interact along the way, with some you get well, others are not interested...but than that is all life about...but always keeping in mind, your goal and not getting affected by anything, because the way is long and hard, but in the end the goal to achieve is more than indescribable.
Yoga or spiritual (devotional) path...both of them have one thing in common...focused concentration, discipline, dedication, constant practice... to enter a different plane of consciousness than the physical (call it chakras or energetic centers, or even levels of consciousness...)
Both at some point, use repetition of mantras for that purpose.
Now I am not going to say which is better or which should be practiced...as that each one has to decide for him/herself...the main thing is no enforcement should be done...it has to come from within...each and every soul has a way to walk out, not all flowers or fruits, though on the same tree have the same maturity of ripening...
Any good practices should make us more humans, more benevolent, merciful, humble, with power to forgive and love... if it is so, than the path is worthy...otherwise we are just cheating ourselves
Once again thanks to all of you...
Harsharan, I am curious what you mean by "yoga OR spiritual (devotional) path" and "which is better." What in your opinion is the distinction between yoga and devotion?? From my perspective as a bhakti/tantrika, my yoga practice IS a devotional practice. For me it's ALL about devotion. Could you please clarify? thanks! |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 10:45:20 AM
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Hi Radharani, though this is quite a fascinating and ample topic, I am going to reproduce in a few words, that what I found on a website, what is Yoga and the types of yoga:
What is Yoga?
Developed in India, Yoga is a psycho-physical discipline with roots going back about 5,000 years. Today, most Yoga practices in the West focuses on the physical postures called "asanas," breathing exercises called "pranayama," and meditation. However, there's more to it than that, and the deeper you go the richer and more diverse the tradition becomes. The word "Yoga" means union. Linguistically, it is related to the Old English "yoke." Traditionally, the goal of Yoga is union with the Absolute, known as Brahman, or with Atman, the true self. These days the focus is often on the more down-to-earth benefits of Yoga, including improved physical fitness, mental clarity, greater self-understanding, stress control and general well-being. Spirituality, however, is a strong underlying theme to most practices. The beauty of Yoga is in its versatility, allowing practitioners to focus on the physical, psychological or spiritual, or a combination of all three.
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How many types of Yoga are there?
Many. There are four paths of Yoga: 1)Jnana, the path of knowledge or wisdom; 2)Bhakti, the path of devotion; 3) Karma, the path of action; and 4) Raja, the path of self control. Hatha Yoga, which includes postures and breathing, and is the form most popular in the West, is actually part of Raja Yoga, the path of self control. The path most followed in India is thought to be Bhakti Yoga, the path of devotion. Within Hatha Yoga there are many styles, such as Iyengar, Astanga, Integral, Kripalu and Jiva Mukti, to name a few. These Yogas all share a common lineage back to Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, a text outlining the basic philosophy and practices of Classical Yoga. It was written sometime between the second century B.C. and the first century A.D.
And now, what I mean for devotion ...is more related to spiritual...it is internal...is a path of pure love, between the lover( a disciple, a chela, a jigyasoo ) and a Master( a guru, a sant, a gurmukh, a Satguru... )
Like the relation between Lord Ram and Bharat ...though brothers, but Ram was viewed as his all being, his goal or between Ram and Hanuman; the "atma" merging in "Parmatma"....to get rid off mind and maya...to become selfless...like the merging of a drop in the infinite Ocean... simply I does not exists...only He.
Like a moonbird (chakor)is in love with the moon....like the bird babeeha is with the rain...so does the disciple loves his Guru...and follows the instructions of his guru as the method to realize the divinity within...the sole, object is to reunite the soul with its origin, the Lord.
The chain to reach His chambers, is love, in the form of devotion. Even Krishna told Arjuna, the easiest and fastest way to achieve me in by taking refuge in me...having me in mind at all times...and that in the best way, to be put into action, is devotion, is guided meditation.
As the saying goes on: as you meditate so you become; so by meditating on Him...we become like Him....nay...we become one with Him
Here in this type of devotion, the main and only object is to become one with Him, nothing more, nothing less.
And once anybody takes shelter in His feet, we become His, by Him spreading His loving and protective hand on us.
Like Duru, like Prahlad, like Meera Bai... they were absorbed in the devotion to the Lord; and many more examples are there in the holy scriptures, He becomes our "rakhwala", like a caring mother to a child, that child is fearless and careless, free of worries in the hands and presence of his mother, so is that soul, in the "hands" of the Lord.
You may ask anything more if needed, thanking you for your patience and kindness...regards. |
Edited by - harsharan000 on Feb 17 2012 3:48:03 PM |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2012 : 04:14:06 AM
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| Harsharan, thank you. What you have said echoes what I said previously when I quoted from the same chapter of the Gita which you have referenced above, namely, "taking refuge in Me... having Me in mind at all times," etc. We are completely in agreement about this. But you haven't really answered my question. I don't mean to be nit-picky, but as you shared above, one of the branches of yoga is Bhakti, which IS devotion. What is unclear to me is, are you are saying that the particular form of devotion you are describing is somehow different from Bhakti yoga, and if so, HOW? Or, are you simply stating that Bhakti is the supreme and ultimate form of yoga (which is the case for me personally, and which the Gita would seem to support)? I am just trying to understand where you are coming from. I believe we are very much in agreement but perhaps we are just using different language. As far as I know what you are describing is in fact the essence of Bhakti yoga. Or do you mean something different? Again, thanks for your contributions to this forum. |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2012 : 04:53:37 AM
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Hi Radharani, you are absolutely right, when you say Bhakti is the supreme and ultimate form of yoga.
Anyhow, if you or anybody wants to know more about this path, I have a blog on the net titled: Quest for Light....it is a small contribution in the service to the mankind. Below is the address to be written in the browser, to go to that blog:
harsharan-philosophy.blogspot.com
Regards, Harsharan. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2012 : 6:50:47 PM
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| Harsharan, thank you for sharing your delightful blog! Now I see where you are coming from. Indeed you practice a form of Bhakti yoga, but apparently the distinction is primarily in regard to the necessity of the incarnate Satguru. May the Lord bless you always and keep you in oneness with Him. |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2012 : 10:25:41 AM
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Radharani, with such a blessing of yours, what else do I need? It is the best thing one can desire! And I am lucy to have it (blessings from you)
So for that, in return for you; as the saying goes:tereh moo me ghee shakar...which means, may you always be blissful...
P.S: when you curse someone, it may happen or not, but when one gets blessings, definetely something good will happen, it is a divine virtue in motion... |
Edited by - harsharan000 on Feb 19 2012 10:58:14 AM |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2012 : 02:51:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
Radharani, with such a blessing of yours, what else do I need? It is the best thing one can desire! And I am lucy to have it (blessings from you)
So for that, in return for you; as the saying goes:tereh moo me ghee shakar...which means, may you always be blissful...
P.S: when you curse someone, it may happen or not, but when one gets blessings, definetely something good will happen, it is a divine virtue in motion...
Thank you, Harsharan! The Lord IS my Bliss. |
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Enlightenment and Death?
