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Kim
Finland
56 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 2:56:40 PM
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Steve Vai
"It's easy to become rich and famous and a rock star, a great musician or artist, but it is virtually impossible to still the mind." - Steve Vai
As this was the only section in the forum which covers people and persons, I put the thread for Steve Vai here :)
I was a professional guitarist and music producer at younger age and was endlessly inspired by Steve Vai and his music. Here's a bried introduction to Steve for those who are not familiar with him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erX2W4qT2vA
At one point I realized I was never going to be as good a guitar player as Steve is, so I quit. Well, I had other reasons as well. I had to find a more direct method to the core ;)
I've read from his diaries that even at a very young age he used to apply techniques of meditation kriyas into his guitar practice. I know that he has studied with several therapists who use methods derived from Eastern teachings. He has been a student of Taoist Kung Fu teacher Paulie Zink (who was also Paul Grilleys Yin Yoga teacher). And he is a practitioner of Sant Mat Meditation.
I'm writing a book of the Zen-element in Steve's music and I thought I'd open this discussion if there are other people who have perceived the depth in Steve's music.
And here's the classic, For the Love of God, with the original vid :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiTX...ture=related
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Edited by - AYPforum on Dec 05 2011 3:25:39 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 3:39:19 PM
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I don't think many will reach the technical proficiency of Steve Vai. Famously in Frank Zappa's band, a man not known for his musical simplicity or lax standards.
I play guitar and drum (neither particularly well but I get by). One of my drummer inspirations is Danny Carey from Tool. He is involved in Sacred Geometry and uses mathematic progressions within his rhythm.
Also, good musicianship has been linked to the Occult for some time. Robert Johnson apparently went down to the Crossroads, as a rather poor guitarist and came back a gifted legend so it is said. Eric Clapton used the story in the song of he same title. Apparently this is something that many famous musicians have owned up to .
As far as hearing anything particular in Vai's compositions I really can't say I do. The only time I have come across something that had a direct connection was an album by a band an album by a band called Bliss. I have gbougt a couple of copies to friends who found it very relaxing when suffering from stress.
I have read bits about the search for the perfect Chord.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 6:36:51 PM
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Thanks Kim. I played keyboards professionally for ten years also, and studied recording engineering.
Interesting stuff about Steve Vai! I used to be a fan of Frank Zappa. There is nobody who set the bar higher for his musicians than Frank. He would write something down and ask Steve if he could play it. Steve said it was extremely difficult, but played it. So Frank said he would have to change it to make it more difficult!
I think if anyone might reach his level of proficiency it would be Orianthi from Australia. She was picked to be lead guitar on Michael Jackson's "This is It" tour before he died. Steve was her idol growing up, and then he played on her album.
Here is Steve Vai and Orianthi rockin' out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7b-_YcACuQ |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 6:56:59 PM
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quote:
I have read bits about the search for the perfect Chord.
I figured it out, mouahahaha!! If you're into jazz, it's a ii, a V and a I all at once . the notes in it, FCBE. It's a little tough sounding on the I, you can remove the F, (or find some weird inversion that makes it sound cool) but it works. Just add the root underneath... In C major, ii = D, V=G, I=C. Or just play it as a rootless chord, yeee
Sorry, I coudlnt help myself. And yeah, Steve Vai rocks. Amazing guitarist |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 8:11:31 PM
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" it's a ii, a V and a I all at once . the notes in it, FCBE"
Huh? What key is that in? Do you mean 2,5,and 1 notes or chords?
'cause C,D,G in C major is just a c9 chord without the third if you're talking notes. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 9:33:07 PM
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| I can play C9 which note do I want rid of. My music theory is pants unless it has drum skins on it. Sheesh I learned musical notation on a drum set and TAB on the guitar. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 12:02:35 AM
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| You would get rid of the "E" in a c9, but I am missing info to know exactly what divineis is saying, because I don't think "FCBE" is in the key of C. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Dec 06 2011 12:05:28 AM |
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Kim
Finland
56 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 05:39:17 AM
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Oh, how nice to see people figuring out the perfect chord here at AYP :D
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I think if anyone might reach his level of proficiency it would be Orianthi from Australia. She was picked to be lead guitar on Michael Jackson's "This is It" tour before he died. Steve was her idol growing up, and then he played on her album.
Here is Steve Vai and Orianthi rockin' out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7b-_YcACuQ
MJ and This is it! I saw the documentary 4 times in a movie theater. I couldn't believe what a subtleness MJ had achieved in his last years. That document is truly amazing from the perspective of Zen arts. I've never seen such an embodiment of Kundalini in dance and singing as in This is it. I was so impressed...
I think Orianthi is skilled but leaves far from Steve and MJ in terms of creativity and personality. This is the problem with most artists. For comparison, Pat Metheny, another one of my favourites, never practiced technique, only musicality and expression :) |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 06:07:40 AM
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| I'm still a big fan of Jimi Hendrix's guitar work. To me he had unparalleled creativity as a guitarist although not a patch on Vai and several other I could mention from a technique perective. |
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Kim
Finland
56 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 09:30:06 AM
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| One thing that I love in Steve is that his music has the quality of universality... or should I say that it doesn't sound like any other artist or much even fit to any particular genre. I like Hendrix and Stevie Ray Vaughan and all other greats too but from this perspective, forgetting Steve's technical guitar abilities, his music doesn't seem to be bound with culture. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 10:26:31 AM
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 I have always found it to be a bit ......I think turgid comes to mind. I have passion and warfare and listened to it a few times but it feels a bit like Supermarket music, maybe that is universal.
I do have a lot of music, some that is very experimental. Have you listened to Bryan Eno albums such as another green world or my life in the bush of ghosts. Again, no connection with culture.
Another is a band I went to see two weeks ago called Battles.
This isn't steering you in that direction, just that i think it fits your description of genre less music. Those two artists came to mind but I have many more.
Bliss is nice as it is based on principles of meditation. So file under Yoga genre |
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escapado
Germany
88 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 1:07:42 PM
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battles are nice but I'm not too much into their thing
Hendrix is AWESOME tho!
And Karl, you got one great inspiration, Danny is making me go mad when I listen to his sick playing!
What is freaking me out is him talking about a demon that he kind of summoned and that you should take care while listening to 10,000 days or something like that... wtf?
Also viginity tres, dude that's scary stuff...
but tool remains the best ;) |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 1:35:30 PM
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oh, blah, this is from a jazz standpoint, F, C, B, E, it includes the 3rd and seventh of both a ii(F,C), V(F,B) and I chord (E, B). They're rootless chords, sometimes played with a bassist who'd play the root, or even done on the piano without the roots.
Try F |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 1:37:21 PM
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Battles need to be seen live. Quite mind blowing. Like Garlic Bread "it's the future". My wife enjoyed the Gig and it really isn't her thing. The drumming of ex Helmet man John Stannier...wow, high energy and incredible precision.
Tool ...... After years of rejection they finally got to me and now I'm another Tool fanboy salivating at the possibility of a new album next year
Danny is a wicked drumme, very creative and still improving.
Another one to watch is JoJo Mayer. I have an MP3 of his band called Nerve, but the real mental mix is his previous band Headless Screaming Torsos. Nothing like the name would imply. A strange mix of Dance, Metal, funk and just about everything else. Scary musicianship. |
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escapado
Germany
88 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 4:05:27 PM
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You got to love Tool man :D
Tool and Moody Blues are the two bands that always open me op so much while moody blues opens mind and heart Tool is more likely to make me feel the subtle vibes
But apart from that Tool is... ugh god it's just so good :D
Well I will have a look at them!
Right now I'm totally flashed by the blues tho, robert johnson & co |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 4:37:41 PM
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Yes, I love Robert Johnson and Leadbell.
Seen Tool twice now, also APC. APC is the best gig I have ever seen. Never before been to see a gig that ended with the audience speechless. Every one walked out in a kind of hushed reverence. It was more like a religious experience.
It was later reported in one of the music magazines as the band you shouldn't go and see if you are starting your own. It's such a hard act to follow. Again, another band that is infinitely better live than in the Studio. Josh Freese, what a drummer that guy is, incredible diversity and musical flexibility. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 8:50:58 PM
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Yes Hendrix was incredible, like from another planet. People today don't fully appreciate him because everyone since has built upon what he started. Technique is nothing compared to innovation. Jimi brought the oriental flavor and sliding fourths into western music and now everyone does it. Then Steve Vai added his own flavor of oriental and defined Zappa's sound.
Hendrix introduced boldness to psychedelia that nobody had. Many people experienced that world through drugs, but having their ego killed made them timid and scared, and Jimi showed them how to drop that. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 9:16:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Divineis
oh, blah, this is from a jazz standpoint, F, C, B, E, it includes the 3rd and seventh of both a ii(F,C), V(F,B) and I chord (E, B). They're rootless chords, sometimes played with a bassist who'd play the root, or even done on the piano without the roots.
Try F
I know jazz, rock and music theory and still don't understand what you're saying. If E, B is a "I" chord why do you say "try F"? ii in the key of E would be F#. And F# with C would be a nasty sounding diminished fifth.
By ii, V, and I are you referring to supertonic, dominant, and tonic chords? What key? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2011 : 03:27:55 AM
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I have used nasty sounding chords like that briefly to augment a chord change. Gives a sort of disintegrated edge if used very sparingly, like a car crash in the distance. The opening chord of hard days night by the Beatles has that weird piano F underneath and works in a similar way. Sometimes horror films use it to heighten the tension. Is that what is meant?
Not what I was expecting of a perfect chord mind, but I could see how it might be if played in the right way. Beyond my eager skills. |
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Kim
Finland
56 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2011 : 04:42:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
but the real mental mix is his previous band Headless Screaming Torsos. Nothing like the name would imply. A strange mix of Dance, Metal, funk and just about everything else. Scary musicianship.
I can't believe that in 2011 somebody is talking about Screaming Headless Torsos in the AYP-forum! :D That was one of my favourites as a teen ager. I even got to hang out with Dave Fiuczynski ;) Here's a Miles davis cover from the first record:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRCNotvdEXY
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2011 : 05:39:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kim
quote:
Originally posted by karl
but the real mental mix is his previous band Headless Screaming Torsos. Nothing like the name would imply. A strange mix of Dance, Metal, funk and just about everything else. Scary musicianship.
I can't believe that in 2011 somebody is talking about Screaming Headless Torsos in the AYP-forum! :D That was one of my favourites as a teen ager. I even got to hang out with Dave Fiuczynski ;) Here's a Miles davis cover from the first record:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRCNotvdEXY
Cool. I got into them by way of JoJo . This is his band Nerve. He is a human drum machine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWRU...gdata_player |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2011 : 1:45:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
quote:
Originally posted by Divineis
oh, blah, this is from a jazz standpoint, F, C, B, E, it includes the 3rd and seventh of both a ii(F,C), V(F,B) and I chord (E, B). They're rootless chords, sometimes played with a bassist who'd play the root, or even done on the piano without the roots.
Try F
I know jazz, rock and music theory and still don't understand what you're saying. If E, B is a "I" chord why do you say "try F"? ii in the key of E would be F#. And F# with C would be a nasty sounding diminished fifth.
By ii, V, and I are you referring to supertonic, dominant, and tonic chords? What key?
Key of C, and yes, supertonic, dom, and tonic, and sorry, I accidentally posted too quickly and my computer died away soon after.
I meant, try an F# (rather than F) for the augmented 4th of the I chord, so youd have C, E, F#, B (maj7 #11)). Though an F still works (rather than an augm. 4th) with my ears, I like dissonance, spent too much time in a metal band haha.
ii( or IV... quite interchangeable), F, B,C,E (ii 6/9 , 6=B and 9=E)... as a rootless ii. As a IV, it would be missing an A, obviously, you could add that in I guess, or leave it out, blahh, wahtever.
and a V 13 (F,B,C,E)... C# would be nicer on here though, for a V 13, #11 ...... again, a rootless chord. Though yet again, I find it somehow works even with the regular C.
3rds and 7ths are what's prominent for proper voice leading, the above just jumbles up all the voice leading into one chord hehe. :)
Inn the words of Cynic(sort of jazz metal band):"everythingggg is ooooone" haha.
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Edited by - Divineis on Dec 07 2011 3:58:21 PM |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2011 : 4:07:45 PM
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Karl, you ever hear Arvo Part? He writes mystic(or religious) minimalism, your band, Bliss made me think of him.
I had to study Arvo in university, beautiful composer. His music is hugely inspired by the sound of church bells, it`s kinda neat his musical process (he writes a melody, picks one chord for the entire piece (lets say A minor), and then uses the closest or furthest chord tone to what`s going on in the melody as an underlying sort of harmonic process. So lets say you have a A, B, C melody, the chord tones would go E, E, A(for A minor, and for the furthest away tones... I think I got that right, hmmrph) |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2011 : 7:33:40 PM
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Divineis wrote,
"Key of C, and yes, supertonic, dom, and tonic"
NOW we're talking the same language, and i understand you. I tried to "reverse engineer it" from the info you gave not knowing the key, and I couldn't come up with anything. Even without a root I need to know what key just as a reference. Haven't played for years and don't have an instrument, but I have perfect pitch, so i am imagining it. . .
Thanks Divineis |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2011 : 8:48:18 PM
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Divineis: not come across him, will certainly look it up. Seems like just the sort of thing that (a) peels. See what I did there
Etherfish, can you do the chord conversion. All I can find is C maj 7 # 11, and it's nasty to play without six fingers. Perfect pitch, bet that's a curse at Karaoke nights |
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Steve Vai
