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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 10:36:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
Yes, Just like Supermarket checkout Q's. Eventually you will be on your way. There are no good or bad Q's, there are just Q's.
Amen to that. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 12:10:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
quote:
Originally posted by karl
Yes, Just like Supermarket checkout Q's. Eventually you will be on your way. There are no good or bad Q's, there are just Q's.
Amen to that.
You two are much wiser...
I waste time looking for the shortest Q.
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 4:15:45 PM
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quote:
Yet we cannot put aside the valuable help one gets from a teacher or an other exterior form of help like Yogani's books.
i was just saying that their inner guru lead ancient sages to enlightenment ….i do not underestimate the help provided by external factors like teachers or books …..the external helps the internal and vice verca so we can evolve for the better ….ultimately there is no internal and external…all is the same …all is good…
quote:
"one alone can reach enlightnement alone, this was the case of ancient sages and seers,nobody helped them"
and what makes you think that?
who helped them other than their inner guru??
‘the great ones pondered and pondered over this life with its bondages and imperfections, its pain, suffering and sorrow. They ruminated over the various miseries characterizing this earth-life and said: “No! we should not thus drag on through this earth-plane life after life! There must be some method by which we can complete our great destined journey more quickly and find ourselves in that ultimate state of supreme blessedness and perfection” .The Technique evolved to rapidly go through this process of achieving fulfillment and perfection is named: Yoga” (The path beyond sorrow/ Swami Chidananda-Divine Life Society)
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 8:15:32 PM
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By ancient do you mean sages and seers from a long time ago, or the ones in my age group today?  |
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 9:05:46 PM
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LOL!!!  |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2011 : 01:52:19 AM
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quote:
may I ask you who are you referring to when you say ancient sages and seers? any names...?
from long time ago....totally unknown ...the first enlightened human being |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2011 : 02:05:34 AM
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Here's another beautiful vid with Francis which I just encountered and is related to the same as the original one which was posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUZ7qpPjvAQ
I really love this guy[img]icon_heart.gif[/img] |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2011 : 05:15:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
quote:
may I ask you who are you referring to when you say ancient sages and seers? any names...?
from long time ago....totally unknown ...the first enlightened human being
There is no, long time ago. There is only now. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2011 : 05:39:01 AM
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quote:
Here's another beautiful vid with Francis which I just encountered and is related to the same as the original one which was posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUZ7qpPjvAQ
I really love this guy[img]icon_heart.gif[/img]
Karl...supermarket 
very good video |
Edited by - maheswari on Dec 03 2011 05:44:11 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2011 : 12:30:07 PM
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....But the teachers and gurus weren't necessarily other sages and seers. Civilization has latched on to the teacher/student relationship because it was effective, but it is my belief that there are always people who learn other ways, and were probably not recognized because of it. You can know a subject better than someone with a PhD, but you will not be recognized for it.
Sages and seers have no PhD, so they are recognized by having followers. The problem with that system is the judgement of who is good is by a group of admittedly unenlightened people and someone leading them who doesn't mind being put on a pedestal. So how many ancient seers and sages we read about were more charisma than enlightenment? Of course there were many greats, but we only have inaccurate records of those who were known.
Then the story is filtered through another ego as history is written. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2011 : 12:35:42 PM
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quote:
There is no, long time ago. There is only now.
can not even use those words to express an idea?
quote:
my point maheswari is that the ancient Rishis and Sages did indeed have teachers and Gurus...
1st enlightened being...totally unknown? but you have some info..? really ??
very well, then share with us your info
quote:
Of course there were many greats, but we only have inaccurate records of those who were known.
so true |
Edited by - maheswari on Dec 03 2011 12:37:19 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2011 : 07:50:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
quote:
There is no, long time ago. There is only now.
can not even use those words to express an idea?
[quote]
You needed a second bite?
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2011 : 07:53:09 AM
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Mikananda
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2011 : 08:58:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogesh
"one alone can reach enlightnement alone, this was the case of ancient sages and seers,nobody helped them"
and what makes you think that?
Conerning such satements, one need only ask this. How's is it been going so far? It isn't necessary to re-invent the wheel. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2011 : 09:37:47 AM
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It is going incredibly well. Many people are becoming enlightened without intensive personal help. Of course, you won't find them proclaiming it on the news. That would be an un-enlightened thing to do. There is nothing wrong with using old systems of doing things, but new methods are better for people today who don't want to dedicate their whole life to spirituality.
yogesh said "What inaccurate records are you referring to?"
Written history is all inaccurate because it was filtered through the mind of man. There are shows like "Ancient Aliens" that don't prove what really happened in the past, but they prove that conventional history is very wrong. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2011 : 09:50:16 AM
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| ta ta ta ta |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2011 : 5:33:55 PM
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I've attended a satsang on the web with Francis this evening (10 am in California time where Francis lives), it was really beautiful.
Francis spoke about the traditional way in which he teaches advaita which is different than Neo Advaita. He said that a lot of Neo advaitans speak about doing nothing, whereas in traditional advaita there's a sadhana before awakening and there's one afterwords... He also said that in traditional advaita being in the physical presence of a teacher is needed in order for a transmission in silence to happen. He mentioned that Jean Klein (Francis' teacher) asked his Indian teacher if he could take him to the truth and the answer was yes I can. Francis is one of those teachers who also says yes he can with an open invitation to everyone. I've also personally experienced first hand this silent transmission in the presence of Maher who is a student of Francis.
I still believe it can be done with or without being in the presence of a physical guru as Yogani says. Grace is everywhere, but as Francis said: "This direct transmission is like a shortcut."
I am someone who is hungry and crying for the truth so there's no shame in taking a shortcut. I honestly don't think it's weak or lame to take help or refuge in a teacher. I think it's a very noble and humbling experience for the ego. In case you find a good and genuine one, why not?!
Of course in the end after being self sufficient and stable in your realization there remains only gratitude and love for your teacher and you are free to be with him or not.
My first encounter with truth was with the tradition which Francis teaches. I went through all what I went through because I couldn't find a teacher here in Leb. But I don't regret it all, the journey was beautiful and I've grown and learned a lot and made many friends and had the opportunity to help and guide many thanks to meeting Yogani.
I guess in the end to each his own way. One follows his own heart and learns from his mistakes along the way. But I don't see any mistakes or failures now. Just a chance to grow.
I don't know if Shanti is reading this but thank you for being one of my teachers and dear friends also You've helped in so many ways
Especially in sharing this topic with me today:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=6402
Love,
Ananda |
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Mikananda
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 06:46:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
It is going incredibly well. Many people are becoming enlightened without intensive personal help. Of course, you won't find them proclaiming it on the news. That would be an un-enlightened thing to do. There is nothing wrong with using old systems of doing things, but new methods are better for people today who don't want to dedicate their whole life to spirituality.
yogesh said "What inaccurate records are you referring to?"
Written history is all inaccurate because it was filtered through the mind of man. There are shows like "Ancient Aliens" that don't prove what really happened in the past, but they prove that conventional history is very wrong.
Sri Etherfish
The people on this forum have been trying to provide you with "intensive personal help." . |
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Mikananda
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 06:59:55 AM
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"one alone can reach enlightnement alone, this was the case of ancient sages and seers,nobody helped them"
I believe this is an incorrect statement. If true very very rare (Jesus, Krishna, Buddha). These types of statements can be explained by reincarnation. People who are enlighten who "apparently did not receive help" had obtained that state in a previous life. How many peolpe can claim to be virgin born?
Did Yogani need help? |
Edited by - Mikananda on Dec 05 2011 07:58:17 AM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 07:58:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
quote:
There is no, long time ago. There is only now.
can not even use those words to express an idea?
[quote]
You needed a second bite?
Well seeming that you did:
If we welcome the present moment, we will discover that in the present moment there is never a problem. The problems and psychological suffering arise only in relation to the past and to the future of a personal entity. In the now there is no such personal entity. That’s the beauty of it. Only the now is real. The past doesn’t exist any longer and the future doesn’t exist yet, so only the now is real. In the now there is no personal entity. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 08:55:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikananda
"one alone can reach enlightnement alone, this was the case of ancient sages and seers,nobody helped them"
I believe this is an incorrect statement. If true very very rare (Jesus, Krishna, Buddha). These types of statements can be explained by reincarnation. People who are enlighten who "apparently did not receive help" had obtained that state in a previous life. How many peolpe can claim to be virgin born?
Did Yogani need help?
I think this is just a misunderstanding of semantics. Of course everyone needs help, and it is all around us. If someone never has a physical guru, they still have help from an inner guru and everything the inner guru directs him to. I think this started out as do we need a physical human as a guru, but there are many other kinds. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 10:58:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I think this is just a misunderstanding of semantics. Of course everyone needs help, and it is all around us. If someone never has a physical guru, they still have help from an inner guru and everything the inner guru directs him to. I think this started out as do we need a physical human as a guru, but there are many other kinds.
The battle of words even Jesus had a Guru, called God.
My Guru is supposedly long dead, yet we spea and have a physical relationship on a certain level, despite that supposed handicap
Guru, God, inner Guru...........the same. All objects, anything at all.
If someone needs a living breathing Guru because no other is available, then that is the path they take.
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 06:57:55 AM
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quote:
I think this is just a misunderstanding of semantics. Of course everyone needs help, and it is all around us. If someone never has a physical guru, they still have help from an inner guru and everything the inner guru directs him to. I think this started out as do we need a physical human as a guru, but there are many other kinds.
yep |
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Mikananda
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 07:46:06 AM
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Greetings
Yes we are bound by language. What is a Guru? Many people say that the world is their Guru? Is the world living? Words, here again words "need." It has been written, "He who finds a Guru, finds a great blessing." It isn't so much a question of need. I don't need a car to get to the store, I can walk. However, my car makes it easier. Some people enjoy walking. No problem, I quess I am just lazy . |
Edited by - Mikananda on Dec 06 2011 08:17:33 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 8:26:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
My Guru is supposedly long dead, yet we speak and have a physical relationship on a certain level, despite that supposed handicap
You might not want to share that with too many people. . .physical relationship with the dead is not generally considered normal.
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The Controller
