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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 13 2011 : 6:09:46 PM
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It's good to meet you Ananda 
I'm really pleased that I've found another Krishna Menon fan.
Perhaps we could start a topic, because I'm not at all sure that Krishna Menon does say that you need an external guru in AD and AN which are the "bible" of Krishna Menon (and as such open to interpretation). He also uses several different apparently contradictory methods and, from what I remember, remarks that any single one will do the trick.
I've not yet finished "Notes on Spiritual Discourses" but I'm not too concerned about that as AD and AN are the core teachings and particularly the preface where he talks about "using a thorn to remove a thorn" in very technical language, so maybe any other references to having an external teacher were tailored to fit the individual?
I really need to reread AD and AN properly to have this discussion though, because it's some time since I picked them up.
Would you like to start the ball rolling with a new topic or shall I?
Love
gatito |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2011 : 11:42:37 AM
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Dear,
I am very sure Krishna Menon mentions the need of a physical guru. I've read AD and AN many times in the past and have done satsang with a friend while reading them once. We kind of put our brains and teeth really into Atma Darshan in precise...
I was also with the teacher who came to Lebanon yesterday, all I can say is that it was a big help. The silence, clarity and understanding were beautiful. What I loved the most is the simplicity and unconditional love of the teacher. Yesterday all of these symptoms were clear to me.
As per opening up a topic, I think I've mentioned Krishna Menon more than once in other forums than here. But if you want to open up a new one so that we may discuss or share about Krishna Menon... Don't know how I could contribute but I am in for Sure
Love,
Ananda |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2011 : 1:13:55 PM
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dear Ananda and Gatito
i would be very grateful for both of you if you start a new topic in plain english about Krishna Menon cause when i read his writtings i dont understand much...i dont why although i am very familiar with vedanta especially Shankaracharya and Ramana Maharshi writtings...
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2011 : 1:42:21 PM
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thank you dear Ananda
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2011 : 4:48:51 PM
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quote:
I was wondering if Sri Atmananda belonged to traditional Advaita Sampradaya and did he himself have a Guru?
by Advaita Sampradaya,you mean the monastic orders formed by Adi Shankara?... Sri Atmananda was not a monk,he was a householder ...
his guru was rather unknown,his name was Swami Yogananda (not to be confused with Yogananda of SRF)....since his guru has the title of Swami so it is possible that his guru was initiated into the religious monastic orders founded by Adi Sankara or maybe it is only a title that means a religious teacher...
my 2 cents
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Edited by - AYPforum on Nov 15 2011 6:25:23 PM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2011 : 6:09:31 PM
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Yes his teacher belonged to the traditional monastic orders formed by Adi Shankara... Swami Yogananda had 5 students as far as we know, he only had 4 students who lived with him the life of the renunciate whereas Sri Atmananda was ordered to live as a householder and teach even though he wanted to follow his guru and stay with him...
Hope this helps dear Yogesh... May I suggest reading his beautiful life sketch... Maybe I should read it also, it's been a long time since I haven't...
Love,
Ananda |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2011 : 04:05:13 AM
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| welcome |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2011 : 04:34:50 AM
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This is a De Mello's story which pretty much explains some of the direct understanding which I've had in the presence of my dear friend Maher (Francis' Student).
“Why did you come to the Master?”
“Because my life was going nowhere, giving me
nothing.”
“So where’s it going now?”
“Nowhere.”
“And what’s it giving you now?”
“Nothing.”
“So what’s the difference?”
“Now I’m going nowhere because there’s
nowhere to go; I’m getting nothing because
there’s nothing to desire.” |
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amoux
United Kingdom
266 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2011 : 08:55:50 AM
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Thanks for that, Ananda - De Mello is so direct and to the point
I don't know a great deal about Krishna Menon but have read Greg Goode's book, Standing as Awareness, which is based on Menon's direct path teachings. Very interesting - and I also have a couple of dvds of Greg being interviewed about the teachings, and demonstrating some 'experiments'. Very challenging stuff. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2011 : 11:26:19 AM
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Hi Amoux
Yes, Greg Goode does a great job in sharing Menon's work.
Love,
Ananda |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2011 : 1:02:24 PM
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dear Yogesh
good to know cause i love Adi Shankara and i preffer being a householder |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 12:26:31 PM
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Being in the presence of a genuine and loving teacher does help and make a lot of change. After my new experience, I strongly recommend being around an enlightened person. The thing really works!
Love,
Ananda |
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 11:39:47 PM
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Sorry, I've been unable to access the internet for a couple of weeks, so I'm playing catch-up at the moment.
I'll follow-up maheswari's request to start a new topic, when I've had a chance to skim through Atma Darshan and Atma Nirvriti and check whether there's anything in there about an external guru being essential.
From memory, there's nothing there about an external guru being essential but I'll double-check before I start the topic. However, if anyone else has a chance to look it up themselves in the interim, I'd be grateful .
On an aside, John Levy, one of Sri Atmananda's Western disciples, is very specific that an external guru is essential (see Levy, John, The Nature of Man According to the Vedanta, Sentient Publications (2004), ISBN 1-59181-024-8, Chapter XVI, p65, Note 3 and Chapter XXIII, p84 An Injunction Regarding the Personal Application of the Method. However, this may be because the Higher Witness needs to be developed and stabilised before doing Self-Inquiry (see Yogani, Self-Inquiry, Dawn of the Witness and the End of Suffering). If the Higher Witness is not developed and stabilised first, Self-Inquiry can "derail" the mind, so if you're going to go to a guru instead of self-pacing, one of the guru's jobs is to pace you and develop the Higher Witness to prevent this from happening, (That's my guess anyway )
Incidentally, I agree that Greg Goode is a great source for anyone interested in the Direct Path of Krishna Menon. I've corresponded with him over the course of a few years about sticking points that I had and he's always been kind, generous and extremely giving of his time and his knowledge. Anyone interested in Krishna Menon should certainly study Greg's videos Illumination - The Direct Path of Shri Atmananda Krishna Menon and his book Standing as Awareness: The Direct Path Expanded Edition, Foreword by Jerry Katz. Non-Duality Press (October 2009) ISBN-13: 978-0956309150.
He's also finishing-off a new book The Direct Path: A User Guide forthcoming in March 2012 from Non-Duality Press. You can find extracts of all his work (and more) here http://www.heartofnow.com/
You should also get hold of a copy of Atma Darshan & Atma Nivriti Nirvriti (edited for my dyslexia ) although, sadly, they will now cost you about £600 to buy on the second-hand market. However, if you live in the UK, you can visit the British Library in London and study them there for free - which is what I did until I was lucky enough to be given a copy by a friend. |
Edited by - gatito on Dec 02 2011 02:19:01 AM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 02:00:13 AM
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| thank you gatito for the useful tips |
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gatito
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 02:20:13 AM
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| You're very welcome maheswari. I'm glad you found it of use |
Edited by - gatito on Dec 02 2011 02:34:32 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 05:27:04 AM
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I think for £600 you can go visit India and live for 2 weeks while moving around the place and buy the book from there for 10 rupees.
On the other hand, I can send you my copy if you wish. I think we can always buy new ones when the book show opens here in Beirut. Kamal Joumblat, was a student of Sri Atmananda and the political party which he was in charge of still spreads the teachings of the latter and he has also translated the book into arabic. It's part of the book "Al Hayat Wal Nour" in case Maha is reading.
As for the necessity of the teacher on the direct path, I don't know of any teacher who is related to Sri Atmananda or himself for that matter who doesn't insist on it. The relation with a teacher is needed at all times, it doesn't always have to be in person but the physical meeting needs to happen at least once.
The direct approach and that of Yogani differ on the subject and I personally agree more with Yogani. But never the less, from personal experience I've found that being in the presence of someone who have found his peace really helps. Their inner silence and joy is contagious.
Me and Maheswari have been recently involved with one of Francis' students who came to visit beirut and he has also insisted on the necessity of the teacher.
Again my offer is still valid, if you want my copy of the book just send me an address and a name on email and I'll send it over. Don't worry about the expenses, I don't think it'll cost me more than 15 or 20$.
Love,
Ananda |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 05:49:15 AM
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quote:
I think we can always buy new ones when the book show opens here in Beirut. Kamal Joumblat, was a student of Sri Atmananda and the political party which he was in charge of still spreads the teachings of the latter and he has also translated the book into arabic. It's part of the book "Al Hayat Wal Nour" in case Maha is reading.
dear Ananda
i am not sure, a Druze friend of mine asked the printing house .nobody heard about about those books!!!
the book show in beirut will open this w/e i guess....
i have "ALHAYAT WA NOUR" but always thought it contains only selections of Atmananda writtings and not in full...will check it out again today....
quote:
The direct approach and that of Yogani differ on the subject and I personally agree more with Yogani. But never the less, from personal experience I've found that being in the presence of someone who have found his peace really helps. Their inner silence and joy is contagious.
Me and Maheswari have been recently involved with one of Francis' students who came to visit beirut and he has also insisted on the necessity of the teacher.
one alone can reach enlightnement alone, this was the case of ancient sages and seers,nobody helped them...neverthless as Ananda said it was a great experience meeting an enlightened student of Francis Lucille...one feels lots of spiritual benefits that keep on unfolding....
thx for John Levy link |
Edited by - maheswari on Dec 02 2011 05:55:51 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 07:01:33 AM
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Dear we can argue about one alone and all that... Yet we cannot put aside the valuable help one gets from a teacher or an other exterior form of help like Yogani's books... As for the ancient sages, those more than anyone else insisted on the presence of a personal guru.
As for the Atmananda book, when the show opens. Go to dar Al taqadomiya and search for it between their books. Even the book seller who stands there probably doesn't know he has the book to sell... So google around between the books you'll find.
Love,
Ananda |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 07:36:32 AM
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Isn't there always a contradiction?
You need a physical Guru/ you don't need a physical Guru and on and on. This book has a better way than that book, this person seems more enlightened than the other person, I should be doing this instead of that.
Why is there any contradiction at all? Surely the way has been found by now?
Where is the source of that contradiction to be found? is it external or internal?
Like the ripples from a stone dropped into a still pool of water. Your gaze is fixed on the ripples instead of the point of origin. The ripples will collide and fragment as they interfere with each other. Realise that the ripples are just ripples and enjoy their beautiful patterns.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 07:48:07 AM
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Thanks Karl
Or we could just say, who cares! It doesn't really matter, whatever works will do.
Love,
Ananda |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 09:10:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
Thanks Karl
Or we could just say, who cares! It doesn't really matter, whatever works will do.
Love,
Ananda
Everything works. One spring, many rivers. Easier to go to the source directly than to filter the more polluted waters down stream. Filtering works just as well, it's just not as direct and the more streams you care to sample the less direct it is. Still it is possible to filter the entire Ocean if you have the tenacity and strength, hard work though
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 09:32:44 AM
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All good |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 10:34:28 AM
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| Yes, Just like Supermarket checkout Q's. Eventually you will be on your way. There are no good or bad Q's, there are just Q's. |
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