| Author |
 Topic  |
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 07 2011 : 2:08:26 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by manigma
You feel pain?
Yes of course and sadness and joy too. Just without attachment.
Sweet. You are not attached to the body mind and yet you feel them.
How is that possible?
|
 |
|
|
jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2011 : 2:19:51 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by manigma
You feel pain?
Yes of course and sadness and joy too. Just without attachment.
What about irritation & anger?
Also, do "you" feel like you are "nothingness"? Or, do "you" feel eternal and further integrating to "everythingness"? Or, feel free to tell me it is a stupid question...
Thanks again.
|
Edited by - jeff on Sep 07 2011 2:22:43 PM |
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2011 : 2:27:40 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by jeff
What about irritation & anger?
No. How can you be angry? Anger is only for that which you do not understand or refuse to accept.
Oh you added a bit.
It's one moment, it has no beginning or end. I am that just as you are that. |
Edited by - karl on Sep 07 2011 4:29:38 PM |
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2011 : 2:38:14 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by manigma
Sweet. You are not attached to the body mind and yet you feel them.
How is that possible?
Find out who thinks it is the body first.
There is difference between pain and suffering. Suffering is thinking you should not have pain instead of it just being pain. It is not good or bad pain. It's not about being superman .
|
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2011 : 2:56:22 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by manigma
Sweet. You are not attached to the body mind and yet you feel them.
How is that possible?
Find out who thinks it is the body first.
There is difference between pain and suffering. Suffering is thinking you should not have pain instead of it just being pain. It is not good or bad pain. It's not about being superman .
That is not an answer to my question. Without being attached to body mind, how do you feel them?
|
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2011 : 4:15:30 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by manigma
That is not an answer to my question. Without being attached to body mind, how do you feel them?
I'm not attached to the THOUGHT 'this is my body, this is my pain' The body remains as it has always been, it will get ill, it will die, that cannot be prevented and I cannot control it.
I cannot explain it any better. It's the witness, reabsorbed into the self. I have read of Gurus who suggest something more, I cannot comment on it.
Before I was identified with the body, now that is not so, it's not more or less than that.
|
|
|
|
nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2011 : 7:03:56 PM
|
Hi Karl,
Thanks for sharing.
Can you think of something measurable that you (or any one enlightened) can do that rest of us (unenlightened) cannot do?
- Near |
|
|
|
bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2011 : 10:47:25 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by karl
It's the witness, reabsorbed into the self.
Namaste, Karl, and All,
I salute "the witness, reabsorbed into the self."
As is my usual practice, I use my reflections on what people post to inspire me to read Yogani's teachings. Lesson 350 touches on the process of witness consciousness merging with higher self, and gives some clues as to where such a realization may lead. I particularly like Yogani's description of the relational aspect of self-inquiry, and also the way neuro-biology is viewed as integral to the process. Here are some highlights of the lesson that I found particularly useful.
"Asking the question "Who am I?" a thousand times without release in stillness will pale in its effect to doing it just once relationally (in stillness) with sincerity. Ask yourself now, what is the feeling of that question mark in "Who am I?" Do you really want to know who you are? If you do, and have abiding inner silence, this approach to self-inquiry can work wonders...
...the character of the witness will steadily evolve from a flat separate awareness to a luminous flowing aliveness that we will see expressing through the nervous system and everywhere. We have called it a divine outpouring and stillness in action. Whatever we call it, we come to realize that this is not only who we are and the Self of all, but also that it is unbounded love flowing for us, through us, and for everyone."
|
Edited by - bewell on Sep 07 2011 10:53:55 PM |
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 01:24:01 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by manigma
That is not an answer to my question. Without being attached to body mind, how do you feel them?
I'm not attached to the THOUGHT 'this is my body, this is my pain' The body remains as it has always been, it will get ill, it will die, that cannot be prevented and I cannot control it.
I cannot explain it any better. It's the witness, reabsorbed into the self. I have read of Gurus who suggest something more, I cannot comment on it.
Before I was identified with the body, now that is not so, it's not more or less than that.
Its like saying the body to you is like wearing a jacket or a coat. You know you are not the jacket, you are not attached/identified with it, but you feel the pain when someone pinches the jacket or tears it.
Mr. Karl, the body is the THOUGHT. Pain is the THOUGHT. And you are still attached with this THOUGHT.
You are still dreaming.
|
|
|
|
maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 01:44:01 AM
|
Manigma.....check this http://www.messagefrommasters.com/E...maharshi.htm
"Doctors would ask, "You must be in great pain?" Ramana would reply, "Yes there is great pain, but it is not happening to me. I am aware that there is great pain happening to the body; I know that there is great pain happening. I am seeing it, but it is not happening to me."
so what is missing in Karl 's experience?
please enlighten us
|
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 02:25:44 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
Manigma.....check this http://www.messagefrommasters.com/E...maharshi.htm
"Doctors would ask, "You must be in great pain?" Ramana would reply, "Yes there is great pain, but it is not happening to me. I am aware that there is great pain happening to the body; I know that there is great pain happening. I am seeing it, but it is not happening to me."
so what is missing in Karl 's experience?
please enlighten us
I know that statement.
"I am aware that there is great pain happening to the body; I know that there is great pain happening. I am seeing it, but it is not happening to me."
Its a beautiful statement. One of my favorites. I can feel the words and relate to the speaker's state when I read them. There is a sublime stillness in it.
Which is missing from Karl's words.
|
|
|
|
Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 06:04:38 AM
|
Thanks Karl
It's a very good story :) |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 08:46:48 AM
|
Let's try not to tear down Karl's experience because we think he is describing it wrong. We are comparing his words to other people - whom we have judged are enlightened by their words - and are saying there is something wrong with his words.
If you think for a moment you will see the flaw in this method . . . Both actions are initiated by a mind that we admit is not enlightened.
Words are just approximations of reality, but can never BE reality. If you compare one approximation, put in the category of correct, with another you are trying to judge, it is just a mind game; you are not dealing with reality, only weak descriptions of it. This is especially true with the "enlightenment" subject. |
|
|
|
woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 09:04:21 AM
|
Agreed with Ether...
Why compare Nisargadatta like he is a benchmark? Haha. We can't prove who and who isn't enlightened! Does it matter either way?
Anyway, I am more enlightened than all of you! |
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 09:22:22 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Words are just approximations of reality, but can never BE reality. If you compare one approximation, put in the category of correct, with another you are trying to judge, it is just a mind game; you are not dealing with reality, only weak descriptions of it. This is especially true with the "enlightenment" subject.
Yes, but every word has a vibration that reflects the speakers mind.
Its not just the words. He also says he feels sadness and joy without attachment. Whereas it is impossible to experience such emotions once you are awake.
How can someone experience joy and sadness from the depths of unshakable silence?
|
|
|
|
maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 1:16:08 PM
|
agree with Ether
..if further milestones are needed for Karl...no worry they will happen by themselves...so let us rejoice for Karl because it is clear his journey is going very well...
...if NO further milestones are needed , also let us rejoice for Karl
|
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 6:59:54 PM
|
How can someone experience joy and sadness from the depths of unshakable silence?
By not being attached at all. I love watching violence in movies, but I would never want it in real life. |
|
|
|
nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 7:06:55 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by nearoanoke
Hi Karl,
Thanks for sharing.
Can you think of something measurable that you (or any one enlightened) can do that rest of us (unenlightened) cannot do?
- Near
Hi Karl,
Just wanted to clarify. I am not questioning your awakening. My question was purely out of academic interest.
It would be nice to have a way to measure "Enlightenment". Mostly it is internal in the sense only the person who has that experience, knows it. But it will be great to have some measures to show people that it is indeed a real deal. For example something like a Stress interview conducted with medical equipment on the "enlightened person" to show he is not affected etc..
- Near |
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 11:29:15 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
How can someone experience joy and sadness from the depths of unshakable silence?
By not being attached at all. I love watching violence in movies, but I would never want it in real life.
'Real Life' is my favorite movie.
|
|
|
|
maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2011 : 01:44:21 AM
|
quote:
How can someone experience joy and sadness from the depths of unshakable silence?
one still feels but is not attached...meaning (in my experience) one mentally moves very fast...then one witnesses whatever is happening .... |
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2011 : 02:19:12 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by nearoanoke
For example something like a Stress interview conducted with medical equipment on the "enlightened person" to show he is not affected etc..
LOL.
|
|
|
|
Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2011 : 04:05:28 AM
|
I agree with both Ether and Manigma to be honest. Both make a point |
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2011 : 04:44:39 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by nearoanoke
Hi Karl,
Thanks for sharing.
Can you think of something measurable that you (or any one enlightened) can do that rest of us (unenlightened) cannot do?
- Near
you are already, there is no difference between us.
Within a dream you can do all sorts of amazing things like flying, when you wake you find your flying powers have mysteriously vanished.
I watch people do amazing things all the time that I cannot do, it doesnt mean they are enlightened.
Understand that you do nothing at all. You do not revolve around your world, it revolves inside you. You know this, yet your insistence on experiencing miracles is resistance. You are expecting great things on the outside, there are far greater things on the inside.
Don't desire great powers, meditate with as much love and devotion as you can muster, surrender, give it all up. Throw yourself naked and exposed onto infinite mercy and you will know yourself for what you truly are.
|
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2011 : 04:52:32 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
I agree with both Ether and Manigma to be honest. Both make a point
yes both.
Of more importance is what do you know for certain ? That you exist ! How did it happen? How long has it gone on for? Can you remember the start, can you envisage an end?
|
|
|
|
Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2011 : 05:02:00 AM
|
| Just this moment |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Enlightenment -removing the mystery.
