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FutureHumanDestiny
USA
25 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 5:45:41 PM
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Aloha peeps!
if you want to find out whether you're living enlightenment or not; whether your mind is free of preconceptions or not, then i have a (fairly) short self test you can take.
watch this video and note your initial reaction:
what were you feeling?
what did you expect the video to be about?
what did you think the object in my hands was use for?
etc.
in the middle or at the end, review your feelings and see whether they changed.
did you have preconceptions? be honest!
-dale |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 6:38:10 PM
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Thanks for sharing your video. Have you really found video game players to be afraid of it?
On responses...
No preconceived reaction or feelings.
Thought it was for various normal uses.
The video seemed kind of long for the point.
Was that your dog or some other animal walking around in the background?
Finally, have you found that many people have a preconception about it? That it has been useful as a descriptive test?
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Edited by - jeff on Mar 06 2012 6:40:01 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 6:43:21 PM
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 well I'm not enlightened and still react to generalisation, distortion and deletions.
The basic understanding in NLP parlance is that we can only cope with around 9 bits of information maximum at one time so we use generalisation to create little models such as how a door opens, or how to drive a car. It's why, when we find a door which opens differently that we get flustered as we are jarred out of our door opening trance.
Coming hot on the heels of generalisation, is distortion. That's the minds twisting of the true facts based on lack of direct information. It's that " goes bump in the night" shock that turns out to be a central heating pipe causing a floorboard to creak and not a burglar. Still, even when you suspect that, the tendency is to either cower under the duvet or, explore every nook and cranny to try and break the fear.
Knowledge is based on experience. I've seen a knife used both as a weapon and as a tool so I'm open minded, but wary of man brandishing knife others only know that knives are used for violence and so that's their experience and reaction.
So, a brandished knife gets my attention and I am waiting to hear the explanation. As it is, I have a few knives for a similar reason, although knives like that are banned in the UK,, so the initial reaction is that it is illegal.
I'm sure if I pointed a shotgun at you that you might have a momentary wonder about the intention. What would an enlightened person do ? I have absolutely no idea. |
Edited by - karl on Mar 06 2012 6:44:43 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 7:15:09 PM
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No reaction really. We should look at people's eyes, not what they are holding. It does look well made though, and that impresses me. Too much cheap stuff today; people buy 50 cheap plastic tools instead of one tool made with craftsmanship. 10 years from now, which one will you still be using? I hate plastic. As i get older, plastic stuff seems to deteriorate more quickly, besides being bad for the environment.
I do buy plastic stuff if I intend to use it for one day. But a tool made with craftsmanship might last the rest of your life.
I don't know what this has to do with enlightenment though. . . |
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FutureHumanDestiny
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 8:48:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Thanks for sharing your video. Have you really found video game players to be afraid of it?
truthfully? horribly afraid and refuse to touch it. one of them nearly dropped the blade tip-down into their foot.
quote:
Originally posted by jeffOn responses...
No preconceived reaction or feelings.
Thought it was for various normal uses.
The video seemed kind of long for the point.
i agree that it's long but i had to go slow and speak softly since most internet users (middle class suburban-dwellers) don't have experience with knives, in fact, they think they are weird. i travel often for my work and when i am in LA, SanFran, Sacrament, etc., people freak out even about my folding knives. they think i am ex-military or a wilderness survivalist or something (which is half true, i suppose)
quote:
Originally posted by jeffWas that your dog or some other animal walking around in the background?
3 ducks eating ants, yes, and my cats and dogs wander as well.
Finally, have you found that many people have a preconception about it? That it has been useful as a descriptive test?
[/quote]
it reveals insight. even those who know many of the uses of the knife can still have preconceptions, which is what the video is all about: rather than having either right or wrong preconceptions (of the ego) can we maintain equanimity and be zen?
hope that answers your questions.
thanks for watching.
-dale |
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FutureHumanDestiny
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 8:49:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
well I'm not enlightened and still react to generalisation, distortion and deletions.
The basic understanding in NLP parlance is that we can only cope with around 9 bits of information maximum at one time so we use generalisation to create little models such as how a door opens, or how to drive a car. It's why, when we find a door which opens differently that we get flustered as we are jarred out of our door opening trance.
Coming hot on the heels of generalisation, is distortion. That's the minds twisting of the true facts based on lack of direct information. It's that " goes bump in the night" shock that turns out to be a central heating pipe causing a floorboard to creak and not a burglar. Still, even when you suspect that, the tendency is to either cower under the duvet or, explore every nook and cranny to try and break the fear.
Knowledge is based on experience. I've seen a knife used both as a weapon and as a tool so I'm open minded, but wary of man brandishing knife others only know that knives are used for violence and so that's their experience and reaction.
So, a brandished knife gets my attention and I am waiting to hear the explanation. As it is, I have a few knives for a similar reason, although knives like that are banned in the UK,, so the initial reaction is that it is illegal.
I'm sure if I pointed a shotgun at you that you might have a momentary wonder about the intention. What would an enlightened person do ? I have absolutely no idea.
great comments and interesting proposition about the shotgun. what do you think is the greater threat: the man or his gun? |
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FutureHumanDestiny
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 8:56:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
No reaction really. We should look at people's eyes, not what they are holding. It does look well made though, and that impresses me. Too much cheap stuff today; people buy 50 cheap plastic tools instead of one tool made with craftsmanship. 10 years from now, which one will you still be using? I hate plastic. As i get older, plastic stuff seems to deteriorate more quickly, besides being bad for the environment.
I do buy plastic stuff if I intend to use it for one day. But a tool made with craftsmanship might last the rest of your life.
I don't know what this has to do with enlightenment though. . .
the people that don't comment are often the ones that are too frightened by knives, so the video is primarily for them (specifically for a few followers i have on my youtube channel who are advanced spiritually speaking and have samadhi).
subtlety of perception of mental objects such as thoughts, ideas, memes, emotions, stigmas, etc. is essential especially in the liminal states during samadhi and beyond. our response to material objects, as well as our relationships with them and our worldview are made manifest in our minds when we see, touch or think of the objects. the video was an attempt to 'shock' people into deeper perception, as their thoughts 'bubble up' upon seeing the enormous killing device i.e. my gardening knife.
i work with diverse segments of the population; all demographics. i've found that by analyzing our relationships (spontaneously, as they occur) to persons, places and objects we can help others to become zen, cultivate subtlety of perception, develop/strengthen their relationship with the inner guru and more.
i hope that makes sense.
thanks for replying!
-dale |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 9:19:33 PM
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Way cool knife!! Top notch craftsmanship. My garden knife broke a few years ago. The blade snapped in half while I was trying to dig up a stubborn weed cherry tree that had sprouted from a pit. I miss it. And yes, the handle was plastic. 
You can use just about any strong, pointed object to break out a car window, so I saw the window punch as the least useful aspect of the knife. It's cool that you were able to chop wood with it, but I imagine a good axe is a lot more effective.
I guess I was mostly focused on the knife's utility, and was actually drooling and a bit envious.
P.S. You never, ever, ever point a firearm at anything you don't intend to shoot right at that moment in time. So my first reaction to anyone pointing a shotgun at me would be red-hot, spittin'-nails anger at their sheer stupidity and lack of respect for the firearm and what it can do.
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Edited by - whippoorwill on Mar 06 2012 9:53:14 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 10:16:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by FutureHumanDestiny
the people that don't comment are often the ones that are too frightened by knives
Um.... preconception?  |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2012 : 11:18:46 PM
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| Now that's a heated topic |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2012 : 06:00:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by FutureHumanDestiny
quote:
Originally posted by karl
well I'm not enlightened and still react to generalisation, distortion and deletions.
The basic understanding in NLP parlance is that we can only cope with around 9 bits of information maximum at one time so we use generalisation to create little models such as how a door opens, or how to drive a car. It's why, when we find a door which opens differently that we get flustered as we are jarred out of our door opening trance.
Coming hot on the heels of generalisation, is distortion. That's the minds twisting of the true facts based on lack of direct information. It's that " goes bump in the night" shock that turns out to be a central heating pipe causing a floorboard to creak and not a burglar. Still, even when you suspect that, the tendency is to either cower under the duvet or, explore every nook and cranny to try and break the fear.
Knowledge is based on experience. I've seen a knife used both as a weapon and as a tool so I'm open minded, but wary of man brandishing knife others only know that knives are used for violence and so that's their experience and reaction.
So, a brandished knife gets my attention and I am waiting to hear the explanation. As it is, I have a few knives for a similar reason, although knives like that are banned in the UK,, so the initial reaction is that it is illegal.
I'm sure if I pointed a shotgun at you that you might have a momentary wonder about the intention. What would an enlightened person do ? I have absolutely no idea.
great comments and interesting proposition about the shotgun. what do you think is the greater threat: the man or his gun?
LOL
The thing is, I don't have any problem accepting that certain symbols have corresponding reactions. This is what Pavlov proved.
The question is how this relates to enlightenment.
A man brought up with no knowledge of knives and guns will not be fearfully at all. Someone living with the day to day use of these tools as weapons of violence will react differently.
Is the first man enlightened or just ignorant?
If the second man finds a gun pointed at his head is his reaction unenlightened?
It is the old snake and rope story. Seeing things as they are and all that good stuff. Yet, it is the foolish that gets bitten by the snake because he thought it was a rope.
There is a saying " trust in God, but tie up your camels".
Your test only provides a limited datum based on your own experience of knives. If someone came at you brandishing one, then you might be forgiven for reacting differently. It might well be that they were so impressed with the video that they were simply showing an appreciation for a quality tool, there again they might well want to show you how useful they are as a means of attack with no malice intended.
We become enlightened in our own Karmic pools. One size does not fit all, but it's a good attempt.
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2012 : 08:23:46 AM
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Karl uses the word "brandishing"... Tools are simply used, usually without any conscious thought; weapons are brandished. I wonder if the reaction would be different if, in the video, you were chopping up last year's stalks for compost, digging weeds, and edging the garden instead of holding the knife and waving it around. I wouldn't use that knife as a rescue tool, and I wouldn't try to get someone out of a car by myself. It's very hard to keep the spine stable while moving the patient. It's better to simply turn off the car engine and call emergency services. But if there's no other option...
And I wouldn't take that knife to the airport. TSA will not listen to an argument about how they should be more enlightened.
It was Karl's shotgun comment that I really reacted to. I grew up in a rural area where the land was rich and bank accounts were poor. We all hunted and gardened because we couldn't afford much at the grocery store, and the nearest store was 40 miles away anyway. Ice cream socials were a big deal for that reason. We had to make our own. Anyway... hunting accidents were something that affected us all... The response to Karl's comment about the shotgun was immediate: Hunting accidents!! Accompanied by fear, sadness, loss, anger...
Finally, I wouldn't make assumptions about computer-literate suburbanites. You never know what a person's background might be... If someone has an aversion to guns or knives, it should be respected...
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Edited by - whippoorwill on Mar 07 2012 08:44:33 AM |
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FutureHumanDestiny
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2012 : 11:55:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
quote:
Originally posted by FutureHumanDestiny
the people that don't comment are often the ones that are too frightened by knives
Um.... preconception?
that's an impossible argument, much like the barber who cuts everyone's hair but his own.
this topic is about the clinging of the mind and the limitations of the ego's ability to perceive itself; the word preconception is a meme or syllogism that links the philosophical conception of clinging to the world; i.e. it's practical application which sadly is not understood by almost anyone i meet.
i hope you understand now.
-dale |
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FutureHumanDestiny
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2012 : 12:05:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
LOL
The thing is, I don't have any problem accepting that certain symbols have corresponding reactions. This is what Pavlov proved.
The question is how this relates to enlightenment.
A man brought up with no knowledge of knives and guns will not be fearfully at all. Someone living with the day to day use of these tools as weapons of violence will react differently.
Is the first man enlightened or just ignorant?
If the second man finds a gun pointed at his head is his reaction unenlightened?
It is the old snake and rope story. Seeing things as they are and all that good stuff. Yet, it is the foolish that gets bitten by the snake because he thought it was a rope.
There is a saying " trust in God, but tie up your camels".
Your test only provides a limited datum based on your own experience of knives. If someone came at you brandishing one, then you might be forgiven for reacting differently. It might well be that they were so impressed with the video that they were simply showing an appreciation for a quality tool, there again they might well want to show you how useful they are as a means of attack with no malice intended.
We become enlightened in our own Karmic pools. One size does not fit all, but it's a good attempt.
the test has nothing to do with knives: it is a measure of a persons ability to recognize the subtle movements of thought forms in their mind. only the ego wants to evaluate, scrutinize and decipher the meaning of symbols. to the buddha, who is zen, all things pertain to enlightenment.
so this is not an attempt to do anything for anyone. it is a measuring stick for a person to assess their peace, equanimity, zen,
and so far, strangely, only one person has viewed the video and discussed their peace of mind. everyone else has thought the video was about the knife.
i hope that makes sense.
-dale |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2012 : 12:46:25 PM
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Well, then, there you go. It proves i don't have any peace, Zen or equanimity. Luckily,I have complete peace, Zen and equanimity about not having any.
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2012 : 1:07:01 PM
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quote:
Well, then, there you go. It proves i don't have any peace, Zen or equanimity. Luckily,I have complete peace, Zen and equanimity about not having any.
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2012 : 2:34:00 PM
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No reaction here.
However, if i saw someone "brandishing" (thanks karl!) a knife like that in real life where I live, I would be positively shocked and on-guard instantaneously. There's no reason for someone to have a knife like that where I live.
I don't buy the whole movies bit. I think knives probably illicit an instinctual response to our animal bodies. Enlightenment can overcome that, of course, but it's not always prudent to ignore you body's natural instincts :) |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2012 : 3:15:15 PM
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Word of the month......I thank you
You did have a reaction because you posted.......ah ha ! |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2012 : 9:11:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
quote:
Originally posted by FutureHumanDestiny
the people that don't comment are often the ones that are too frightened by knives
Um.... preconception?
lol Funny, Carson. This is how twisted i am; i just realized what you were really saying a day later. Yesterday i thought you were making fun of the other meaning of the word preconception, something that happens before conception. 
===========
@tonightsthenight wrote:
"I think knives probably illicit an instinctual response to our animal bodies."
I don't think knives do; but a person with bad intent carrying a knife, does elicit an instinctual response. You can try it on pets - what they react to is your feelings, not what you are carrying, unless they have been abused by the thing you are carrying. So that would be learned behavior not instinctual.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2012 : 9:28:41 PM
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Hi FHD
quote:
Originally posted by FutureHumanDestiny
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
quote:
Originally posted by FutureHumanDestiny
the people that don't comment are often the ones that are too frightened by knives
Um.... preconception?
that's an impossible argument, much like the barber who cuts everyone's hair but his own.
My comment was not an argument at all actually. I was pointing to the clinging of the mind and the limitations of the ego's ability to perceive itself.
quote:
Originally posted by FutureHumanDestiny
this topic is about the clinging of the mind and the limitations of the ego's ability to perceive itself;
Exactly. That's why I was mentioning to you that believing you know another's motivation for action/non-action is simply imagination and could basically be considered mental masturbation. You can't know why someone doesn't comment on your video. Thinking that you can is just clinging to and believing uninvestigated thoughts.
quote:
Originally posted by FutureHumanDestiny
i hope you understand now.
Likewise. 
Love!
Carson  |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2012 : 12:13:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
Word of the month......I thank you
You did have a reaction because you posted.......ah ha !
Ha! :D
Brandish will be my word of the day.
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_Yogi_
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - Mar 21 2012 : 07:23:39 AM
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| Only thing I thought was thats an awesome knife and I want one. |
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Living Enlightenment Self Test
