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little_rad
United Kingdom
23 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 24 2011 : 07:33:08 AM
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Hello all,
I am female. I feel like I am also male. Sometimes i feel like I am neither! It confuses me but I am happy being this way. I am attracted equally to male and female - to me there seems to be little difference. Ive felt this way since childhood and it feels normal. I sometimes experience internal struggle when choosing what to wear - half the time skirts and jewellery, half the time baggy shorts and tshirts!
Anyone else feel a similar way? Please share you thoughts about this.
Love x o x |
Edited by - little_rad on Jun 24 2011 07:39:44 AM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 02:03:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by little_rad
I am female. I feel like I am also male. Sometimes i feel like I am neither!
What difference does it make? The main issue is that you think you are a body with some gender (or disoriented gender). But you are neither the body nor any gender.
If you meditate / practice thoroughly, you will soon rise above body consciousness and discover your true nature.
THE BODY IS MADE FROM THE EXCRETA OF YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER AND IS FULL OF EXCRETA AND FLESH. THEREFORE, BY MOVING AWAY FROM IT, BECOME BRAHMA, THE ABSOLUTE REALITY.
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LISTENING TO THESE TEACHINGS FROM THE MASTER, THE DISCIPLE BECAME ENLIGHTENED AND BEGAN TO SAY: I HAD SEEN THE WORLD JUST NOW, WHERE HAS IT GONE? WHO HAS TAKEN IT AWAY? INTO WHAT HAS IT BECOME DISSOLVED? IT IS A GREAT SURPRISE! DOES IT NOT EXIST?
HERE I DO NOT SEE ANYTHING, I DO NOT HEAR ANYTHING AND I DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING, BECAUSE I AM ALWAYS IN MY BLISSFUL SOUL AND I MYSELF AM MY OWN NATURE.
I AM UNATTACHED, BODILESS, GENDERLESS; I AM GOD MYSELF; I AM ABSOLUTELY SILENT, I AM INFINITE, I AM THE WHOLE AND THE MOST ANCIENT.
I AM NOT THE DOER, I AM NOT THE SUFFERER, I AM UNCHANGING AND INEXHAUSTIBLE. I AM THE ABODE OF PURE KNOWLEDGE, I AM ALONE AND I AM THE ETERNAL GODLINESS.
Adhyatma Upanishad [The Heartbeat Of The Absolute]
http://www.balbro.com/heart
And it is so!
The day you discover your genderless Self, you will proclaim the same words at the top of your breath.
And without body, there would be no struggle what to wear. LOL.
x  x |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 03:07:55 AM
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Hi little rad,
Thanks for sharing about your particular experience of gender. In the yoga path, there is an interplay of the transcendent, that which is beyond form, and the immanent, that which is expressed in the physical.
My own experience with gender is that I am fairly clearly "male" -- I have, for example, never felt like wearing a dress. But in the later phase of my life, I have become more comfortable with my feminine side which for me is expressed in receptivity, and awareness of many levels of "attraction" in relation both to men and women.
I wish you well in your journey, and in finding others who feel as you feel.
Love, Peace, and Light
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 08:30:06 AM
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Hi Little Rad,
Best of luck to you on your journey. I think our sex is determined by our chromosomes: XX, XY, or maybe something less common. Everything else is a social/cultural construct -- the vast sum total of our culture's expectations over many hundreds of years. And it's constantly changing. I would say don't worry about what people expect, and just be yourself. Do what you think is right; wear what you like. And if people judge, let them. It doesn't matter.
My own experience is that I definitely identify with being a woman. I'm wife to a wonderful husband. I'm mother to three daughters. But I work in professions where, nine times out of ten, I'm the only woman present. I've worn ball gowns and bunker gear, strappy sandals and steel-toed boots, jewelry and safety goggles. (But never at the same time. ) In the end, it has no bearing on who I am.
much love,
--Liz |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 10:40:37 AM
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I agree. I am a hetero male, but for years I would occasionally question that because my likes and dislikes are not at all like most hetero males. I finally came to the conclusion that you really can't base your self worth upon belonging to any group.
I have moved in and out of many different groups based upon things we like, and have never felt for more than a few years that this is my permanent place to stay. I think we see other people in that position and assume that is normal, but it is not for everyone.
Some of us will always be different than people around us, and we finally learn to stabilize in that role rather than conforming to a group. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 11:40:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Some of us will always be different than people around us, and we finally learn to stabilize in that role rather than conforming to a group.
I like what Etherfish said. I think yoga has helped me to move from loneliness to solitude. There are times when I long for friends who are "like" me in specific ways, and I have found some affinity groups. Nevertheless there is always something that is different, and that difference keeps me from ever being just a group member. Finding inner silence and learning to cultivate it through daily DM has helped me to accept and even embrace solitude, and accept not finding a complete fit in any one group or relationship. |
Edited by - bewell on Jun 25 2011 11:42:35 AM |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2011 : 12:19:59 PM
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Hi Little Rad,
I agree with Bewell it's about practicing first and foremost. The self, no matter its preferences, is not what makes Tantra work.
If you haven't read about polarity in Tantra, I'd suggest a book by David Deida who speaks in quite a western, plain-English, no-nonsense voice. Especially chapters 23, 24, and 42 of:
www.amazon.com/Way-Superior-...101753&sr=1-1 ; very good to know for HBTQ persons, but I'm 100% hetero and find his thought very clarifying too.
Some Tantra schools are systematic in eliminating unnecessary depolarization: Seldom/never sharing the same bed, or even bedroom (I mean, for sleep...   ), same friends, same hobbies, etc. There's enough risk of depolarization coming from the sheer duration of Tantric intimacy; IMO it would rather be a surprise if a couple did not deeply influence each other. I posted about it in the Non Physical Org. thread here (in my case however, sharing her sensualism, traditionally labeled a "female" quality, doesn't change my male core):
www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....ID=9617#82593
Love and Light
hatha
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2011 : 8:01:53 PM
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I followed the link and read the Amazon sample of "The Way of the Superior Man."
I wholeheartedly disagree with the views expressed in this book. I disagree with the entire premise that the book is based upon: that there are masculine and feminine qualities and that masculine and feminine polarities should be cultivated.
Tenderness, kindness, nurturing, honesty, ferocity, aggressiveness, and ambition (for example) are not masculine or feminine. They're just qualities. And clothes are just clothes. They provide a creative outlet and protect us from our environment.
From my point of view, I'm in the driver's seat on the road to my future. I don't let anyone pressure me into doing something I'm not comfortable with, and I don't let anyone shame me for the route I've chosen. It's okay to be different, and it's important to be myself. If that makes me "masculine" in this particular author's eyes, so be it. I don't see myself that way.
And I'll just leave it at that... This book made me so angry, my hands started shaking. I need to take a deep breath now and blow it off.
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little_rad
United Kingdom
23 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2011 : 7:29:37 PM
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Thanx, all, for your honesty and input on this subject.
It is something I question. I agree, Liz, that qualities are neither masculine or feminine. They are just qualities that may arise in a person of either gender. However I do think that genders may have been stereotyped into having (or not) certain qualities, based upon evolution and the ancient roles of man/woman.
Perhaps the notion of Yin/Yang comes into it? Ie. Completeness = two opposites coming together.
With the idea of clothes, thanks Liz; your idea that clothes are a form of expression / protection from environment helps resolve my internal struggle somewhat.
Thanx manigma also . . . :)
And hatha for your recommendation.
Etherfish and bewell, your posts were comforting. Thanx. I shall definately continue to meditate . . . Maybe my mind will stop being so noisy soon? :D
little rad x x x |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2011 : 8:01:06 PM
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Many gender qualities are stereotyped by cultures. Things that are considered masculine in one culture are not in others. Americans consider it masculine to have a beer belly, sit on the couch, and loudly cheer for sweaty men on TV who are athletes. In some cultures men wear what we consider to be dresses. Some cultures consider it feminine to be a good cook, some consider it masculine. In america, golfers and race car drivers are called "athletes".
The gender differences between cultures go on and on. . . and they're funny. |
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little_rad
United Kingdom
23 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2011 : 12:56:25 AM
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| That's a very good point x |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2011 : 09:47:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lizmoran
This book made me so angry, my hands started shaking. I need to take a deep breath now and blow it off.
That much anger is no good for your gender.
I always tell my wife that she looks beautiful when she is red and shaking with anger. She would either start laughing or bash me in the face. 
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2011 : 11:33:26 AM
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| i am sure you were the reason behind your wife anger |
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little_rad
United Kingdom
23 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2011 : 12:45:59 PM
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| Haha |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2011 : 1:50:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
That much anger is no good for your gender.
I always tell my wife that she looks beautiful when she is red and shaking with anger. She would either start laughing or bash me in the face.
Thanks, I'm laughing now! It was a good day to be half a world away! See: I am no man!
Hi Hatha. I'm really sorry. I know you didn't expect a reaction like that to your recommendation. If you'd like, I think I can explain in rational terms what it was I reacted to. Otherwise, I've already let it go.
much love,
--Liz |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2011 : 2:04:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Things that are considered masculine in one culture are not in others (...) The gender differences between cultures go on and on... and they're funny.
They are, like light-blue colored clothes for boys in the west (= feminine in many Tantra schools).
Actually, Deida most often separates the layers of culture from the ha-tha polarity in nature, and equality in working life from polarity in the bedroom; but, the idea that he would somehow restrict people's freedom of sexual orientation seems to be a misinterpretation by some HBTQ activists. He advocates an inclusive Tantra for all kinds of people; giving us (the hetero) a force of law and norm is rather just a wet dream of other, far more orthodox sects. |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2011 : 01:26:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
i am sure you were the reason behind your wife anger
Ofcourse not, how can I make anyone angry or happy? Its their own call.
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2011 : 01:27:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lizmoran
See: I am no man!
LOL. Éowyn (Miranda Otto) from LOTR3.
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little_rad
United Kingdom
23 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2011 : 05:50:09 AM
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| Yeeeahhh!! |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2011 : 01:57:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lizmoran
See: I am no man!
See: Stillness roars!
The old ones say we Spartans are descended from Hercules himself. Bold Leonidas gives testament to our bloodline. His roar is long and loud. ~ Dilios [300]
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2011 : 10:01:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
See: Stillness roars!
The old ones say we Spartans are descended from Hercules himself. Bold Leonidas gives testament to our bloodline. His roar is long and loud. ~ Dilios [300]
ROFLOL
Stillness can lead us to our inner berserker? I believe it, though I'm more comfortable not meeting my berserker.
Or it can make us unflappable in the face of great danger...
Alcibiades speaking in Plato's Symposium:
quote:
in the flight of the army after the battle of Delium, where he served among the heavy-armed,—I had a better opportunity of seeing him [Socrates] than at Potidaea, for I was myself on horseback, and therefore comparatively out of danger. He and Laches were retreating, for the troops were in flight, and I met them and told them not to be discouraged, and promised to remain with them; and there you might see him, Aristophanes, as you describe, just as he is in the streets of Athens, stalking like a pelican, and rolling his eyes, calmly contemplating enemies as well as friends, and making very intelligible to anybody, even from a distance, that whoever attacked him would be likely to meet with a stout resistance; and in this way he and his companion escaped—"
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Kahlia
161 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2011 : 7:26:49 PM
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You know I think to place judgement on what is "male" and what is "female" is limiting and not so helpful. The concept of gender, the nature of duality and polarity is purely just an expression of the divine, the manifestation of divinity, of something that just IS. My perception of the divine is something that transcends gender and goes beyond that - at our deepest level we are all reflections of this. Spiritually we are all androgynous beings. If we wish to embrace our masculinity, or femininity and indentify with that that is great, if we wish to embrace both even better because this means we are embracing the "whole".
Females have been limited so much already in society in so many ways. Kept in a metaphorical cage so to speak and told what it means to be a female, what they must cater to, please and how they must conform. Just be yourself and never be anything other!
Shake off the labels and societal judgments and expectations, just let go and go with the flowwwwww.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2011 : 7:39:20 PM
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The way I see it is what difference does it make what someone's gender is, or what their preferences are unless you are interested in having sex with them?
When the guys on a construction site are trying to make fun of someone by saying they are gay, I say "And why do you care? Do you look at a dog crossing the street and wonder what its sexual preference is? No because you don't have sex with dogs.
The same applies to humans. Why are you interested in the sexual preferences of a guy?" |
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Kahlia
161 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2011 : 8:04:46 PM
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I totally agree Etherfish.
I think the concept of gender at its deepest level goes beyond our sexual preference and the partners we have, it is deeper than that and more about our relationship and identity with ourself. Its not for anyone else to pass judgment on or give approval.
Funnily enough I often see a dog and wonder if it is male or female- I wonder what this says about me? 
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2011 : 9:23:14 PM
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| well that's a little different than wondering what their sexual preference is. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2011 : 03:25:43 AM
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| I agree with Kahlia, in that spiritually we are androgynous beings. We all have yin/yang, shakti/shiva within us. Even on a more mundane social level, sexuality is a continuum, not a true polarity. Personally I can relate to your situation. Although I have always identified myself as "female," I was a tomboy as a kid and absolutely refused to wear a dress. Now that I am older, in more recent years I do enjoy wearing dresses sometimes, and even high heels although I walk like a cow in them (LOL!) but I am equally comfortable in jeans and sneakers. I only began shaving my legs (blonde hair) in the last decade or so. I wear very little makeup, just Bare Minerals, as I don't have the patience or the desire to paint my face and it seems to me, if men don't need to wear makeup, why do we? I also am bi and find people attractive based on their own characteristics, not their gender. I am in a happy committed relationship with a man who loves and accepts me for exactly who I am. And at my age I no longer care what anybody thinks... You are a unique expression of Spirit in the flesh. You aren't supposed to be like anybody else. Celebrate who you are and if people don't "get" you, it's their loss. You will find plenty of friends who will embrace you for who you are, and the older you get - AND the deeper into your spiritual practice! - the less concerned you will be about what people think. |
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The concept of gender
