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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 04 2011 : 12:25:26 AM
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I'm taking a short respite from the book, as I'm lazy! Geeze, how is a feller supposed to get all worked up 'bout writing stuff, when everything is all perfect, moment by moment forever, even though from a certain perspective things oftentimes look pita!
(http://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...hp?term=PITA) A dear friend of mine suggested this subject; makes me feel all Abby-like. So if anyone has a question about something, and wants a probably windy, alternative response from the far edges, then ask!
Otherwise, I'll post a bit of something now and then, to keep the topic rolling.. until this gets to be too much work, and I can get away with more laziness (and fun) by writing the book than posting in this thread!
I wanted to christen this thread, with an observation about the distinction between awareness and consciousness. (this is important stuff Maynard!)
AWARENESS AND CONSCIOUSNESS
Look out your eyes without any judgments, discernments, feelings, thoughts or much of anything, and you get a sense about what awareness is. Hit your finger with a hammer and you'll suddenly be ALL CONSCIOUS!
Once the silence gets really deep, and gets all lodged in most nooks and crannies of the body being worn, the brain might record Awareness looking back at itself, away from all perception, energy and substance. It's the damndest feeling. The first time that happen, you will never doubt, ever again, that this Awareness is You.
Lets talk about Kudalini for a minute, to discuss what differentiates awareness from consciousness. For those with an active kundalini, you know that for the longest time, She feels like friction. Friction, heat, energy feelings, rubbing, stretching.. all manner of what we can summarily call "friction". Kundalini is divine friction, that eventually starts "irritating" even the highest, most subtle forms of matter (spiritual substance), that Awareness gets all confused and identified with.
When Awareness experiences friction, whether in daily life, or due to kundalini, what was once "oh so far away and dispassionate" gets right toasty and personal, like that finger getting hammered. Now we can understand the nature of consciousenss.
Consciousness is Awareness with a sore finger.. awareness under friction. Suffering is friction you know? Anything that leaves a mess on the bathroom floor is friction.. a "disturbance in the force". Without friction, there is no consciousness, only awareness.
The One's true nature includes all things, including friction (also known as Shakti Kundalini) PLUS undifferentiated awareness.
When Kudnalini rubs against the edges.. when Kundalini purifies the body and/or engergy, it creates consciousness out of awareness. This is why kundalni junkies keep reaching for "more kundalini" to cause more friction, so that awareness keeps becoming consciousness at a certain level of being.. but this can be a trap... a very common trap.
At a much later stage, all the chakras, all the energies, all the aspects of being collapse into the body.. and life itself becomes the irritant, which stirrs Awareness, living on the throne of a fully purified body, into consciousness--and the resulting explosion of love-kindness is the result.
Well, that's one of Kev's big old realizations intended for the book.. but ya'll can steal it and tell your friends at parties about how you understand the secret of consciousness now.
Love ya,
Kevin |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2011 : 11:04:30 AM
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Kevin,
I like your Kundalini is "divine friction" concept. You imply that it helps purify the body. How is that the same or different than what we do in DM? Also, I have always heard that kundalini moves from the base up (from chakra to chakra). Does that mean it purifies different types of things in an order?
Thanks. |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2011 : 3:20:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Kevin,
I like your Kundalini is "divine friction" concept. You imply that it helps purify the body. How is that the same or different than what we do in DM? Also, I have always heard that kundalini moves from the base up (from chakra to chakra). Does that mean it purifies different types of things in an order?
Thanks.
Jeff,
Thanks for the good question. Ask 10 folks about kundalini or chakras or what not, and you may get 10 very different answers. This tells me that these under the hood type things are not as important, and mean different things to different people at different times; all concepts are tools you know, to be used and discarded without a thought. However I do spend a lot of time looking at flows, so that perhaps I might be of service, so I do have observations.
Let me address the topic of purification first; that is far more important than understanding kundalini IN A VACUUM. No concept should be addressed out of context of the structure the One has setup, from utmost top to utmost bottom. Again, all such roadmaps are tools, to be used and discarded.
I'd say that the single most important thing I've ever learned on this billions of year path, is that whatever the "ego", the "little self" holds onto for "itself" cannot be released for purification. This cannot be overly stressed. This cannot be overly stressed. It doesn't matter if 12 trillion "volts" of kundalini are running through you; NOTHING will be purified if the little self is holding onto it.
Now how does the little self have the power to hold onto things? Easy. The tiny trickle of Awareness that flows through the convoluted path of the little self is RESPECTED. The little self, the ego is also divine.. the One respects the dribble of awareness trapped in all our little selves, no matter the suffering. It's like how a human father respects his son, even if the son wraps the family car around a post.. but walks away from it relatively unharmed.
This is why such practices as Zen Koans are so powerful.. why inner guidance from the guru is so powerful..why the presence of an "enlightnened person" (ask me about enlightenment sometime if you wish) can be so powerful.. and this is why DM is so powerful... the little self, which spans many layers of being must be "tickled" so as to become conscious, so purification can occur.
As for DM, I was moved to do it a bit a while back, in order to deconstruct the elements
of it, to determine why it works so well.
DM is rather genius, as it involves the little self, the ego (i'll say just little self from now on). Any particularly effective practice needs to involve the little self. This is critical and not properly understood by many people who practice yoga, tantra, etc. This is in fact why the rational mind can be such a powerful tool, when properly developed. You see, the little self needs to see that it should stop clinging to something.. or it will never release something. Kundalini does play it's role, by making us aware of subtle parts of ourselves.. that the little self wouldn't pay attention to otherwise. This is one of the two major roles of kundalini. The other, not commonly discussed role of kundalini, is to literally rewire the brain, nervous system, and more subtle bodies, to act as better conduits of the flow. By surrendering our ENTIRE body, mind, emotions to the divine.. kundalini may then REBUILD us.. rather like the six-million dollar man! Whatever we hold onto, is not transformed. But back to my poor explanation, under the hood of how DM works.
Here are some of the elements I observed:
1) DM is a time sink, to get us to spend time alone with ourselves.
2) DM disciplines the little self, to set aside a time habitually.
3) Like all yoga practice, DM is a bit of a "shiny object" to catch the attention of the little self.
4) DM catches Awareness on ALL LEVELS and focusses it. (genius).
a) The mundane words "I AM" catch the rational mind, giving it something to do, until
it no longer needs something to do (it gets bored. but keeps coming back to it
easily. By making it easy, the mundane mind does not REBEL. This is critical).
b) As the mantra "I AM" refines, which MUST be allowed to happen on it's own schedule
and not "forced" into samyama, the practictioner becomes aware of ever more subtle
layers of being. In even the most 'dense' person, Awareness flows from utmost top
to utmost bottom.. how else would they be alive if it didn't? Awareness can go
where kundalini itself can't go at first!
c) The mantra itself "I AM" is understood by the Atman, the highest part of us, no
matter what languages we know or do not know! This mantra, yes the actual words
damn it.. not a 'mystical vibration' per se, reminds Awareness who it is... helps
break the self-induced hypnosis of the Atman for matter.. (ask me about this
sometime).
d) Now there is mystical vibration involved as well. "I" or "AY" does affect the throat
chakra. The second complex "a" sort of sound stimulates the brow and part of the
path to the crown AND the root chakra. The "mmm" stimulates the heart chakra. So
the path is this:
Throat (mental substance) > Brow (emotional substance) >Root (mental substance) >
Heart (emotional substance)
This mantra unifies these four chakras into one, while used. Why these four? Yes,
this is important. The heart chakra is the backdoor to the transcendent chakras..
to the "intent to be alive" thread from the Atman". The throat is the great
communicator.. and in this case unifies the heart thread of Atman with the
knowingness thread of the Atman which attaches through the fontinelle, the soft spot
on the head. Knowingness and Beingness are unified through the declaration of being
the One made flesh! Good stuff Maynard! No wonder this is such a wonderful Mantra.
I've never used mantras much myself, just the raw will to manifest fully.. but it's
beautiful!
e) Now.. and this is beautiful.. now that all layers of being are coming into
Awareness.. kundalini is gently awakened! Yes, it is! Kundalini is the desire to
evolve, built into all layers of matter (manifested being). But kundalini can
only transform that which She is invited to transform.. and to do that.. She has to
be made aware of what to transform...so kundalini is gently awakened by those
powerful transcendant vibrations.. which awakens the root chakra.. and by making
the practictioner aware of those other layers of being.. so that kundalini can
purify and transform. And since we sit with the intent to purify (that's what DM is
for..), we are giving marching orders to kundalini to do Her thing.
Ok, that wraps up DM. So just a couple more points to make, to make sure this is all in context.
Our bodies are 'remote probes' for the Atman. The world of matter is a huge reservoir of kundalini. Matter, and all the Multiverse/Universe is a joint effort of all the Atman.. yes.. we are co-creators.. all this suffering and wonderment is OUR "fault". This is the basis of the Boddhisattva vow.. to continue on until even the blades of grass are enlightened! The Atman uses our bodies as a remote probe into this joint work of us all.. and if we keep part of the remote probe for our little selves.. then the Atman can't properly use the resources.. the realizations that 'we' get are sort of secondary... the Atman gets realizations about it's essential nature spread out in time and space, whether 'we' realize it or not. This is why we MUST let go.. we are using the resources (our bodies/minds/emotions) that have a better purpose. (I'd welcome a more pointed question on this remote probe concept..this was an overview summarization).
Now the final point about kundalini is as I posted in the starter of "Ask Kevin". Once kundalini is active and allowed to act upon our subtle body parts, as Awareness has become aware and "let go", then kundalini gets to work, cleaning up debris, and evolving what She is allowed to evolve, to work better. Once kundalini is active.. purification happens 24x7x365 until purification is done.. kundalini takes over.. so that we don't have to use the mantra 24x7x365! But we keep using the mantra for quite a while.. to keep expanding Awareness and to keep letting go.. so kundalini can do Her thing.
Do you want to know what Kundalini is? Please never forget this. It is astonishing.
Kundalini is God's Mantra, sounded so that his Children can come home. This is not a theory.. it is easily seen, outside of space and time.
I hope all these silly old words answered a question or two, my beloved brother.
Love,
Kevin |
Edited by - kevincann on Jun 05 2011 5:36:15 PM |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2011 : 11:40:00 PM
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The Power of Intent
Sometimes we fall into the trap that a certain type of knowledge or a certain type of spiritual practice is "magical". There is all this talk about practices, but seldom is there talk about our intent.
Our intent is in fact critical. If it is our intent to surrender our confused thinking and silly selfishness, then even a poor spiritual practice might produce wonderful results. On the other hand, we might do the most "magical" spiritual practice in the world--heck, we might seal orfices that we didn't even know we had.. while chanting ancient words of power--but if our intent is haywire, we'll accomplish nothing.
The intent to be, to manifest, is one of the deepest parts of us. Intent is a magical language, that crosses all spiritual boundaries; that can always be heard.
Now many of us practice self-inquiry. We attempt to use discrimination, to determine what is real and what is not real. We may practice "neti neti" (not this not this). We may listen to the inner guru. We may meditate upon what we think to be the undifferentiated, the pure.
However it is far too easy to confuse concepts for realities. These types of discrimination do not form instantly with great accuracy. It is very easy to delude ourselves.
However intent is a royal road to true self-awareness. We don't need any amount of self-realization at all, to quietly take a moment, and observe our intent.
Is it our intent to be kind? Or is it our intent to appear clever? It isn't hard to determine our intent; none of us is so good at lying to ourselves, that we don't know our intent.
If we determine what our intent is, before we open our mouth, or start to type something, or before attempting to talk to our true selves (do a spiritual practice), then we automatically disarm all our own bullsh*t. In the moment we quietly observe ourself, and observe what our intent is, we are genuine. This may be the most spiritual moment we ever have.
If we like, we can observe our intent throughout the day.. when we remember to do so.. we can lazily remember to do so..this is not meditation.. this is not contemplation.. this is not Vipassna.. it doesn't matter what our thoughts are.. it doesn't matter how silent we are. It doesn't matter if we are the fricking Buddha. Our intent is not words or feelings.. it is far beyond that.
By watching our intent, when we remember, a space opens up inside of us. A quiet. A sense of inner power. This also is a path to unity with our highest self. By knowing our intent, everything we are, everyting we do is made more powerful, more clear and joyful.
Love,
Kev |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2011 : 11:06:46 AM
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Kev,
A question about trying to watch intent... I think I might be a little confused because it seems that for me the unfolding of intent may happen at the mind or ego level and that I might be "missing" the creation of intent point.
Please take a look at Shanti's posts in "Something to try..."
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3489
I would be interested in your and Shanti's opinion to see if you are both sort of talking about the same thing. Shanti mentions that we create or "let in" energy at the point of focused intent and gives an example of "something to try" which I can feel.
Sorry if I am not getting it, but it would help to know if you and Shanti are taking about the same (or similar) things.
Thanks, Jeff
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2011 : 11:27:35 AM
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| It's funny when people feel like they've discovered something new, only to later realize there is an ancient tradition that already knew that. |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2011 : 12:10:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nodoubt
It's funny when people feel like they've discovered something new, only to later realize there is an ancient tradition that already knew that.
What's important is that we all experience reality for ourselves. If all those old words vaporized today, it would make no difference; they would be recreated, in modern language by all those who live in reality today.
So posts like this one AFFIRM those old words.. this is GOOD. We can all rejoice when ANYONE on this forum can reproduce, from scratch, something that is valuable. That shows that we are all on the right track.
Just so you know my brother, your response gave me joy. .. thank you very much.
Love,
Kev |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2011 : 1:21:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Kev,
A question about trying to watch intent... I think I might be a little confused because it seems that for me the unfolding of intent may happen at the mind or ego level and that I might be "missing" the creation of intent point.
Please take a look at Shanti's posts in "Something to try..."
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3489
I would be interested in your and Shanti's opinion to see if you are both sort of talking about the same thing. Shanti mentions that we create or "let in" energy at the point of focused intent and gives an example of "something to try" which I can feel.
Sorry if I am not getting it, but it would help to know if you and Shanti are taking about the same (or similar) things.
Thanks, Jeff
Jeff,
It's wonderful when you ask questions, becuase you tend to understand something 90%+ most of the time, and yet you don't let your little self get in the way acquiring the other 10%. You don't worry about your 'image'. What a great role model.
Yes, Shanti and I are talking bout exactly the same thing; except she wrote about the contemplation/surrender version of the practice, while I wrote about the "wu wei"* version of the practice. Both are useful.
* http://www.jadedragon.com/archives/june98/tao.html
You ask an excellent question.. how does one know which level of being the intent comes from? Easy. It comes from all of it.. intent is a summary of many subcomponents.. intent is a direction..
We can feel the "gist" of intent, without using any rational concepts, defined emotions or anything.. For example, intent tends to come in three flavors:
little-self defense and puffery, conditional affection, or unconditioned, universal love.
We all are in one of these three intent models during our lives.. roughly speaking of course.. there are infinite nuiances of course.
We are all capable of discerning which of the three modes are we are in, if we are the tiniest bit "spiritual" or as Shanti says have even a little silence. Maybe Charles Manson couldn't properly use intent, but any of us could!
Now, if you want to know on the finest levels, where intent is coming "from", that does take longer. For example, the most subtle level, right next to where Atman pours into the multiverse, and a few levels below that, are often confused as the source of intent.. or kundalini or 'energy' is confused to be the source of intent. And yes, for a while the confused layers of being, that are not yet purified, will color the undifferentiated awareness.. which is the ultimate source of ALL intent.
But this is ok. You'll get the gist of intent, by being aware of it.. and that's good enough.. really.. as Yogani says, in his book on self-inquiry, practices like this are a form of meditation..really... all of life is a form of meditation. I agree with him, that this should not be the ONLY form of meditation used. We need to be well-rounded. But they can be a great auxiliary form, to use during the day.. they can be a huge booster.. in conjunction with something like DM.
For those who are 'resistent' to DM, and don't get results for a long time, I'd very much recommend watching intent as a practice..
Small results are seen nearly immediately..because seeing the general direction of intent, is far easier than seeing the more subtle layers, which takes more silence than is first possessed...
but by seeing the whole "bundle" you also start to see the reality at the core of it...
We need to rack up these early "easy" victories, to entice the little self to continue purification with a comprehensive system like AYP.
Did I answer your question?
Love,
Kev
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2011 : 2:09:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kevincann
quote:
Originally posted by nodoubt
It's funny when people feel like they've discovered something new, only to later realize there is an ancient tradition that already knew that.
What's important is that we all experience reality for ourselves. If all those old words vaporized today, it would make no difference; they would be recreated, in modern language by all those who live in reality today.
So posts like this one AFFIRM those old words.. this is GOOD. We can all rejoice when ANYONE on this forum can reproduce, from scratch, something that is valuable. That shows that we are all on the right track.
Just so you know my brother, your response gave me joy. .. thank you very much.
Love,
Kev
Everyone's a guru these days. |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2011 : 2:34:53 PM
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| But hey congratulations on your progress. That's great. |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2011 : 2:55:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kevincann
What's important is that we all experience reality for ourselves. If all those old words vaporized today, it would make no difference; they would be recreated, in modern language by all those who live in reality today.
I don't agree this is the case at all, by any stretch of the imagination. The path was blazed by previous masters over many eons. Sure basic aspects of the path we can tinker out on our own. But higher subtle nuances that make all the difference are impossible to know unless you are shown. Whatever you've "come up with" on your own is just previous life's practice.
quote:
Originally posted by kevincannSo posts like this one AFFIRM those old words.. this is GOOD. We can all rejoice when ANYONE on this forum can reproduce, from scratch, something that is valuable. That shows that we are all on the right track.
Just so you know my brother, your response gave me joy. .. thank you very much.
Love,
Kev
I don't agree you have reproduced anything from scratch.
It is good you practice, but in my humble opinion you've a ways to go. You misunderstand a lot. But the path will help you iron that out in due course. |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2011 : 3:27:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nodoubt
quote:
Originally posted by kevincann
What's important is that we all experience reality for ourselves. If all those old words vaporized today, it would make no difference; they would be recreated, in modern language by all those who live in reality today.
I don't agree this is the case at all, by any stretch of the imagination. The path was blazed by previous masters over many eons. Sure basic aspects of the path we can tinker out on our own. But higher subtle nuances that make all the difference are impossible to know unless you are shown. Whatever you've "come up with" on your own is just previous life's practice.
quote:
Originally posted by kevincannSo posts like this one AFFIRM those old words.. this is GOOD. We can all rejoice when ANYONE on this forum can reproduce, from scratch, something that is valuable. That shows that we are all on the right track.
Just so you know my brother, your response gave me joy. .. thank you very much.
Love,
Kev
I don't agree you have reproduced anything from scratch.
It is good you practice, but in my humble opinion you've a ways to go. You misunderstand a lot. But the path will help you iron that out in due course.
Thanks so much for your intent. It's so wonderful that everything is perfect just the way it is; I wouldn't change one dot of anything for any reason.
Love you,
Kev |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2011 : 4:16:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Kev,
A question about trying to watch intent... I think I might be a little confused because it seems that for me the unfolding of intent may happen at the mind or ego level and that I might be "missing" the creation of intent point.
Please take a look at Shanti's posts in "Something to try..."
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3489
I would be interested in your and Shanti's opinion to see if you are both sort of talking about the same thing. Shanti mentions that we create or "let in" energy at the point of focused intent and gives an example of "something to try" which I can feel.
Sorry if I am not getting it, but it would help to know if you and Shanti are taking about the same (or similar) things.
Thanks, Jeff
Jeff,
Just a minor addition to this thread about intent. From a limited personal perspective, intent is simply desire. We can all feel desire. Most of us are awash in desire day and night. But when I use the word intent, I really mean the "core desire" or "overriding desire" or "the seed desire". But it's also possible to intend something, without clinging to results.. that would be raw intent,
not desire.
Now we certainly can manufacture raw desire from nothing.. for example when I was around 12, I found myself doing this automatic practice. Lets call it the "Primal Intent Practice"
Clench your right fist and will yourself to be fully present in the moment. "Fiercely" repeat "I am here now! I am fully here now!" a bit, out loud. Then stop the breath for a few seconds and just will the "gist" of the words.. without using words.. use the clenched fist to anchor yourself in the physical world.
As you know, stopping the breath for a few seconds is a powerful technique, as it enforces stillness in the mind and brings us into the present moment without bullsh*t. That stalled breath is a 'mini death' and it gets our true beings attention. Between the stillness from the stalled breath, and the focus upon the clenched fist, it makes it very easy to feel just the "will" (the intent).
This feeling of nonverbal "making it so" by clencing the fist with the breath held for a few seconds will desmonstrate intent for most people. This is because it is simply a magnification of the pre-existing intent that is already there--the intent our Self has to manifest in this world.. that's why this is one of the better ways to start training the observation of intent and to have the silence grow as a result.
Once we get a feel for what intent is, and we watch for it, we start to see it in all our thoughts and actions.
We start to see that our intent often does not match our words. For example, we might post something, for "noble purposes", when in fact we are being insecure, and actually wish to argue with someone else's perception.. as their perception may interfere with one of our "sacred cows" - a concept that we hold dear, which provides us comfort. We may think and even feel that we are being "loving", when in fact our intent is to defend the limited self.
Once we start to see our root intent in everything, we start to become more genuine, more honest, and more calm. The silence will grow. By watching intent, we will eventually be able to refine the practice, until we can feel our very "intent to be", in the cave of the heart. It just takes purificaiton, practice and time.
Now others talk about the SEED OF INTENT.. about seeing the SEED form the instant before a thought.. well.. yes.. this is also intent.. but we can see this seed of intent at any point, if we learn to watch for it.. not just at the first instant.
I hope this bit of addendum clarifies a bit more for those who were asking, and wanted another type of practice to easily grow the silence during the day.
Love,
Kev
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2011 : 6:35:00 PM
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| You are just inventing your own lingo. I don't think that's very helpful for people. You are grasping at your own realization. Your realization would blossom more if you studied up on dharma. There is a much clearer way to describe what you are trying to illustrate and in far fewer words. If you strive for simplicity, you will find greater freedom. |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2011 : 9:17:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nodoubt
You are just inventing your own lingo. I don't think that's very helpful for people. You are grasping at your own realization. Your realization would blossom more if you studied up on dharma. There is a much clearer way to describe what you are trying to illustrate and in far fewer words. If you strive for simplicity, you will find greater freedom.
Thank you for your continuing intent.
Love,
Kevin |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2011 : 12:13:37 PM
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Nodoubt,
I understand your point that nothing is really new, but I find it helpful to have multiple explanations (or descriptions) even if it is the same thing. We all come from a different perspective; different wording and examples can help with understanding. In my experience, I first sort of "feel" something and then it expands into "knowing" it.
It would be helpful to me if you describe where you "disagree" with Kevin on the topics. What has been your experience?
Thanks, Jeff |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2011 : 1:30:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Nodoubt,
I understand your point that nothing is really new, but I find it helpful to have multiple explanations (or descriptions) even if it is the same thing. We all come from a different perspective; different wording and examples can help with understanding. In my experience, I first sort of "feel" something and then it expands into "knowing" it.
It would be helpful to me if you describe where you "disagree" with Kevin on the topics. What has been your experience?
Thanks, Jeff
For explanations I rely on the buddhist texts. For realization I rely on the atiyoga method. To gain this method one needs transmission from the teacher. When people invent methods and terminology, they do more harm than good. Of course one can go in essence of the teachings and methods and discuss. Personal experiences are not discussed, because it creates pride and doubt. When people put their own visions out there about chakras and ontologies, it's just one more aspiring guru or self-annointed Christ figure. That's no good. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2011 : 2:58:36 PM
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Nodoubt,
I also appreciate learning from all of the great "texts". Currently reading and enjoying the Dhammapada. My path has not included an "outer guru" but has been guided by my inner guru and life/existence.
Early on, I would read the Dhammanada or Christian Gospels and not have a basis for correct understanding. The "context" for the wording could be confusing, but more importantly, I had not yet had the "experience" or knowledge to know what they were really talking about. A little further on the path, it made complete sense.
I agree that if someone is giving bad or wrong information it is harmful. But, if others share their experiences, it can give modern day context to 3000 year old documents. The "feeling" or "knowledge" is the same, but the meaning of the words/language and context has changed dramatically. Do you disagree?
The advantage of the forums is that we have a broader group to help determine what is good or bad information. That is why I asked you the question "It would be helpful to me if you describe where you "disagree" with Kevin on the topics."
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2011 : 10:00:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Nodoubt,
I also appreciate learning from all of the great "texts". Currently reading and enjoying the Dhammapada. My path has not included an "outer guru" but has been guided by my inner guru and life/existence.
Early on, I would read the Dhammanada or Christian Gospels and not have a basis for correct understanding. The "context" for the wording could be confusing, but more importantly, I had not yet had the "experience" or knowledge to know what they were really talking about. A little further on the path, it made complete sense.
I agree that if someone is giving bad or wrong information it is harmful. But, if others share their experiences, it can give modern day context to 3000 year old documents. The "feeling" or "knowledge" is the same, but the meaning of the words/language and context has changed dramatically. Do you disagree?
The advantage of the forums is that we have a broader group to help determine what is good or bad information. That is why I asked you the question "It would be helpful to me if you describe where you "disagree" with Kevin on the topics."
Kevin has a novel take on the placement and function of the chakras. His take on the function of kundalini and grasping is not accurate. When kundalini is going, and meditation is going, there is natural non-grasping in pure bliss consciousness. Kevin is basically using this forum as a mirror to see if his experiences are valid. Often beginners on the path will do that plus wrap their chatter in the language of instruction. As Yogani says, [paraphrasing] "just stick to the simple procedure." All the good things happen when we do that. All the chatter about the goings on under the hood of the chakras, the channels and speculation about the metaphysics of consciousness is useless, except in the sense that it helps when the chatterer is redirected back to the method so all that energy can be harnessed on the mat. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2011 : 11:47:23 PM
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Nodoubt,
I don't want to speak for Kevin, but I respectfully disagree. You are making comments about Kevin, but not about the content. This section is for and about "other systems". As I stated in my earlier post, I find Kevin's definition of intent very similar to Shanti's separate post "Something to try" and was interested any difference. As I am sure you know, focused intent goes hand in hand with energy creation.
If you understand the concepts, between Kevin & Shanti they are explaining the theory and giving an example of how Samyama works. That is a topic that I find interesting.  |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2011 : 11:56:28 PM
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| Try try try |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2011 : 01:34:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Nodoubt,
I don't want to speak for Kevin, but I respectfully disagree. You are making comments about Kevin, but not about the content. This section is for and about "other systems". As I stated in my earlier post, I find Kevin's definition of intent very similar to Shanti's separate post "Something to try" and was interested any difference. As I am sure you know, focused intent goes hand in hand with energy creation.
If you understand the concepts, between Kevin & Shanti they are explaining the theory and giving an example of how Samyama works. That is a topic that I find interesting.
Jeff,
In order to have a conversation, both parties must be willing to listen to the other, and not just spout their preconceptions loudly and repeatedly. It is a very common practice, for grown men and women to effectively stick their fingers in their ears and refuse all actual communication. Nothing empowers someone who uses this coping skill more, than to have some tradition to quote chapter and verse of. For example the Bible is used to justify killing gay people around the world, and the Caste System makes "unclean" some of the most beautiful souls ever born and marginalzies them.
It does seem baffling at first, that spiritual communities are often the places with the least evidence of compassion. This is due, in part, to everyone being so concerned with their own "spiritual progress", that their hearts become hardened, and their egos quickly learn to impersonate the buzz words of a respected tradition, rather than jump into the deep well of being, naked and vulnerable, letting the chips fall where they may.
Give me a homeless person with one eye poked out, and nothing going for them any day, rather than a chest thumper of a tradition. The homeless person will be willing to learn, and will achieve liberation far quicker. I received far more love in return from the last homeless person I sat with, hugged and comforted, than any traditional "experts" that I have come across.
Yet, we are called to give unconditional love and show unlimited patience to one and all. So if someone does not wish to converse with you, but just throw insults at you, then that is fine.
All of us play our roles, whether consciously or unwittingly, and not one dot is out of place, in this wonderful Reality, that is our home.
If we are prompted out of love, with an intent that is only born of love, to share something that we find meaningful, then we should of course obey the Flow. But it is not for us to cling to any results, or expect anyone to act "reasonably" according to common standards of decency.
I am not saying that any of these observations apply to anyone who uses this forum. It is not for us to judge. It is not for us to be the enlightenment police and tell others how to think. Let them think whatever they want.
I just know that you are a logical and compassionate man, and I do not wish for you to forget for even a moment, the beauty that unfolds within you, and to identify with mere noise.
I love everyone posting on this AYP forum, as I know Jeff does.
Kev
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2011 : 09:49:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nodoubt
Try try try
Words from Buddha in the Dhammapada...
You are wise.
You are free from desire
And you understand words And the stitching together of words.
And you want nothing.
"Victory is mine, Knowledge is mine, And all purity, All surrender.
Truth & Knowledge are always helpful whatever the form. |
Edited by - jeff on Jun 10 2011 4:46:51 PM |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2011 : 6:18:29 PM
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Kevin, you've quickly jumped to conclusion and formed opinions. All I'm asked for you to do is boil it down to less words so that I can follow what you are saying. I will only briefly skim long passages. Unless it is really clear I'll get lost. If you are using all kinds of jargon, I'll assume you are just spouting hearsay or far-fetched speculations.
For example:
quote:
Once the silence gets really deep, and gets all lodged in most nooks and crannies of the body being worn, the brain might record Awareness looking back at itself, away from all perception, energy and substance.
I more or less get what you mean. But actually this is very loaded with many assumptions. Silence gets deep? Lodged?
Silence is not a something. The brain records awareness? A living cell has awareness at some level. Then, in other places you've talked about the thread in the chakras and other various stuff I've never heard of before.
I am very suspicious about people who concoct rhetoric to explain their subjective experiences. And I am very distrustful of new-age spiritual innovators. It's an old story fake gurus use to deceive bright eyed and bushy-tailed eager spiritual seekers that they know what they are talking about from experience. But if you really break down what the "experience" is that is being described, you can't find anything real there at all. What you have there is a snake-oil salesman.
I'm not saying this is what you are doing Kevin. I think you are genuinely trying to reflect back to the satsang what your path has been. It is wonderful you are doing that. But you have couched your passages in a tone of mentorship. And I'm not sure you are there yet. I could be wrong, but I have yet to see genuine insight that makes me take notice. What I see mostly, is that you have generated a genuine sense of love for everyone and want to share that. I have found that in time that emotion transforms into a far reaching wisdom beyond words and feelings. |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2011 : 6:21:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
quote:
Originally posted by nodoubt
Try try try
Words from Buddha in the Dhammapada...
You are wise.
You are free from desire
And you understand words And the stitching together of words.
And you want nothing.
"Victory is mine, Knowledge is mine, And all purity, All surrender.
Truth & Knowledge are always helpful whatever the form.
I have found that quoting passages doesn't do any good, because there's always another counter-quote from the same speaker. It's better just to come out and say what you are trying to say. My main point is that when someone types out a huge long passage, that person is not trying to connect with people, but is on the soapbox, trying to convert people to their own view. That's a kind of spiritual violence, in my opinion. In the spiritual forums, practitioners are delicate, and should be handled with care. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2011 : 12:29:09 AM
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"Truth & Knowledge are always helpful whatever the form."
This must be translated incorrectly or something. Think about that statement.
Here's some truth and knowledge:
"The phase of the voltage across a purely reactive device lags the current by pi/2 radians for a capacitive reactance"
How could that be "always helpful"
And if you start narrowing the definition of "truth and knowledge", then you have to get rid of "always" or "whatever the form".
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