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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
 Posted - May 15 2011 : 10:42:51 PM
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I'd be very interested in this little metaphysical experiment.
Just a teensey bit of background. When I was in my prior tradition, we focussed a huge amount on reducing yoga to biochemistry, psychology, etc. The idea was, that a lot of religion, spirituality and such was just misunderstood science, and that the world would be better off, in the long run, for things to be more factually accessible, and less superstitious. In fact, a common observation was that superstition held people back from "enlightenment" more than almost anything else. (see some of my posts in the science of yoga folder for more). So, almost anyting was fair game, no sacred cows at all, for the purposes of research. There is just one experiment I would love to try, and have people report feedback, positive or negative.
It is my prognostication that many people, who practice strict non-grapsing like the Buddha (refusing to either believe or not believe in God for example), may possibly have a large reaction; people new to practice may also receive quite a reaction, but this might be due to ego in part. Others it's hard to say. The experiment is really simple. Just do this:
Sit comfortably. Do a few yogic breaths (exhale is longer than inhale) find the silence, if it inot part of your normal daily experience. Whatever method that works for you is fine.
Prepare to contact your inner guru, and let the intent hang in the air, that you are about to submit a question to the inner guru. Then ask this question, "Is Atman me in the far future?". (Atman being the spark of God so to speak.. the highest Higher Self).
Let this hang in the silence for as long as necessary. You might get a thunderous, immediate response, or you might get nothing, or you might be disgusted and not give it a genuine try.
I've seen deeply spiritual people nearly collapse, just asking the question to them in passing. I've see others have the deepest spiritual experience of their lives. I've seen others who snort and expeience nothing.
If you do this experiment, please thoroughly document your results.. from the first hearing of the question, to your final result, if any. Either respond to this thread, or email me, if you are shy.
I myself have no opinion about this experiment, one way or the other, as I do not wish to believe or not-believe in anything, unless I have no other choice.
I love you,
Kevin Cann |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2011 : 08:09:41 AM
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| You may be forcing people into terminology and methods they don't use, so it could be meaningless. For instance, I don't use the word Atman, and I don't contact my inner guru that way. |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2011 : 09:19:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
You may be forcing people into terminology and methods they don't use, so it could be meaningless. For instance, I don't use the word Atman, and I don't contact my inner guru that way.
A valid point. I did say to use what works for you.. and left it awfully vague. Almost anyone could come up with something for "your highest higher self". But yes, words are limiting; not every experiment, or practice works for everyone the same.
This question is really something analogous to a zen koan. I've seen it spark the 2nd stage of enlightenment in the framework I've used since being a child.
It's always nice to see your desire to participate, to help others along and to advance. I think very highly of you.
Love,
Kevin |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2011 : 8:29:03 PM
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| Thank you. I get nothing because my inner guru doesn't respond to an experiment. I have to need an answer to get one. |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2011 : 8:54:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Thank you. I get nothing because my inner guru doesn't respond to an experiment. I have to need an answer to get one.
Yah, life is an experiment, and we all value different things.
Love,
Kevin |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2011 : 1:20:36 PM
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Kevin,
In your "exercise" you talk about the concept of a "higher self" and imply that there is also something that could maybe be called a "little self". By this "little self", do you mean the ego? Or, something else?
You obviously had a point to the experiment... Specifically, what were you trying to show or point out?
Thanks. |
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Delara
Lebanon
305 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2011 : 2:10:51 PM
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Did you say experiment? ...I'm in!!!!!I luv experiments!!!time to play..
just want to make sure I got this right!"Is Atman me in the far future?" meaning we are collected consciousness of God?or different meaning?
that reminds of God's debris book!one of the most interesting books I've ever read 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God's_Debris
Love;
Delara
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2011 : 2:38:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Kevin,
In your "exercise" you talk about the concept of a "higher self" and imply that there is also something that could maybe be called a "little self". By this "little self", do you mean the ego? Or, something else?
You obviously had a point to the experiment... Specifically, what were you trying to show or point out?
Thanks.
A great question is eternal... answers change as history flows.. I really enjoy that powerful 7th chakra of yours... but to the answer..
The purpose of this experiment, was to demonstrate to anyone who tried it, who posesses even a little silence, about the nature of time and being.
Being linear creatures here on Earth, we are easily confused by the implications of time. Time rarely intrudes on all the doctrines of the past, except in a few cases; we often hear about reincarnation, karma, and the timeless nature of Awareness. But beyond these simplistic concepts we do not stray.
For example, from the perspective of Awareness, which manifests as the Witness after much AYP practice, there is neither past nor future. There is only NOW. So from that perspective, there are NO past lives.. only current lives. So why aren't we aware of these lives? Well we are..
When we feel the undifferentiated, pure awareness beyond time and space, we gain a connection with Reality. We may not be able to say "oh in my next life I will be this.. or in my last twenty lives i was that.." and this is for the good generally.
Atman, our "higest self", which is part of the One, sends out streamers into all of time and space, both in this world, and in the other worlds, as Atman sees fit. The intent behind these streamers is to form vehicles (remote probes like in the movie Avatar), for the purpose of enjoyment, learning and to do the work of the One.
These dual streams of being/knowledge that issue forth, eventually result in incarnation into the densest levels.
Contrary to much that has been written, this "descent into matter" is NOT being "kicked out of the Garden of Eden"; it is not sin; it is not ignorance; it is a VOLUNTARY activity. All the streams of beingness/knowledge from all the Atman froth up the eternal "substance" known as Shakti and create all the worlds. We, as in the Atman, are eternal co-creators with the One.
This is why the One doesn't cry tears for the suffering little beings, and snap His fingers to erase suffering. The One is voluntarily matter and formless Awareness both.. and all of us are part of the process. If we wish to be like Him, then we too need to voluntarily be crude matter and formless awareness both. This is in fact the very essence of the Buddha mind, that is free of the pairs of opposites... as it knows itself to BE the pairs of opposites.
Now to start wrapping this up.
Our regular human personalities, in the absence of Awareness sitting on the throne of the body are called "ego" or "the little self" or "the deluded self" or the "conditioned mind".
We all too often "struggle with" these little lives. But that is silly. The little lives are part of the Eternal Now. They are a part of the required structure of all that is, and will be here forever.. even after this universe blows up, and the next one forms.. these "little selves" will always pop up somewhere, somewhen.. they are part of the eternal body of God.
We are wise to love these little lives.. and forgive them.. and not pay too much mind to them at all.. whether they are "our" conditioned little selves, or 'someone elses". They are all the same.. all conditioned minds.. all temporary beings.. tend to be nasty little guys.. off-balance and confused.. trying to emulate their true nature that they feel within.. by becoming "little gods" rather than relaxing into their True Nature.
Over time, as the silence deepens, our little selves do change.. they eventually come to trust the process unfolding within.. they start to become more an expression of the Self. But they never go away completely.. they can't.. they shouldn't.. If we were to become pure "cosmic entities", we'd lose all ability to share meaningful things with other Earthlings.
Now sometimes the Self just uses the unconscious mind and things spew forth automatically.. automatic practices.. unexpected kindness and compassion that we didn't know we had... and other times our still conditioned minds play a good role.. sometimes our "little selves" are part of the process. It's all good. it is not for us to say the time or the season for anything.. the indwelling Self does what it wills, and our remaining little selves know that they are both the recipient of grace.. and the very essence of grace at the same time.
When the silence overtakes us, the little self will assume an appropriate role. It is never wise to fight with the little self. It is also never appropriate to "emulate" being the Self with the self. Either good things flow from the silence, or they don't.. all we can do is our practice and surrender to the process.
When we come to see, that our True Nature is both everything and nothing.. that nothing needs to be changed.. but still we must learn our lessons in this little time slice.. do our practices in this time slice.. when we know this truth with our flesh --- that we are both of this time and of all times and of no times.. then we are free.. we are liberated from the wheel of life and death.
If you like, the following form of Samyama can be helpful:
1) Become in balance with DM and SBP / your normal practice.
2) Afterwords use the following words:
"Gladly Here!"
let it fade and refine within you.. into the silence.. then..
"Gladly There!" (the intent is everywhere else Atman is in time)
let it fade and refine within you.. into the silence.. then..
"Gladly Nowhere" (your true Formless nature)
let it fade and refine within you.. into the silence..
you are done with the exercise.
Love,
Kevin
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2011 : 10:05:37 PM
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| Kevin, Release the concepts in stillness. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2011 : 10:15:59 PM
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nodoubt,
I think I am like you, I gravitate toward shutting down the mind and more simple practices.
But some people need the intricate, complicated thinking concepts. . . I don't try to understand; I just turn away, and walk in another direction in silence. Nothing wrong with all the complicated concepts though; every society is full of them. |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2011 : 11:33:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
nodoubt,
I think I am like you, I gravitate toward shutting down the mind and more simple practices.
But some people need the intricate, complicated thinking concepts. . . I don't try to understand; I just turn away, and walk in another direction in silence. Nothing wrong with all the complicated concepts though; every society is full of them.
no doubt |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2011 : 12:02:38 AM
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Nodoubt & Etherfish,
This is the "Other systems & alternative approaches" section. Did you have something to add to the topic? |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2011 : 02:33:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Delara
Did you say experiment?...I'm in!!!!!I luv experiments!!!time to play..
just want to make sure I got this right!"Is Atman me in the far future?" meaning we are collected consciousness of God?or different meaning?
that reminds of God's debris book!one of the most interesting books I've ever read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God's_Debris
Love;
Delara
The experiment is certainly about time.. but I rather ruined it finally, with explanations further down. Nobody was playing..
As it happens Scotts Adams lives pretty close to me. he Owns a restaurant a few towns over. I've never met him, or gone to this restaurant, but he's pretty funny alright.
I read 2 of his books.. fairly interesting.. but he's a pure atheist as far as I know.. so his books lack certain sensabilities.
Love,
Kev |
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Delara
Lebanon
305 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2011 : 05:18:01 AM
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o.k, as you wish
Love;
Delara |
Edited by - Delara on Jun 10 2011 06:27:24 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2011 : 07:53:38 AM
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Thanks Delara:
"The book subscribes to the Lakoffian point of view, in that the mind is viewed as a "delusion-generator" rather than a window to true understanding."
Kevin-
Nothing wrong with atheism per se, as long as they have an open mind. god takes many forms, and quite a few of them are not called "God". |
Edited by - Etherfish on Jun 10 2011 07:58:09 AM |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2011 : 10:35:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Nodoubt & Etherfish,
This is the "Other systems & alternative approaches" section. Did you have something to add to the topic?
What's the topic? I don't follow... |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2011 : 10:45:15 AM
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| Opinions are not realizations. |
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A Metaphysical Experiment
