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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - May 02 2011 : 7:50:45 PM
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Namaste Friends! 
Just wanted to share something..... 
I realized today that I am, at the core, a Bhakti oriented yogi (is that called a Bhakta?). At the very core of what makes me, me, is a heart devoted to Life.... Life experienced as fully as possible. But with this understanding I saw that this Bhakti comes with a price..... the price of clarity. I too often find myself "in over my head" simply because I want..... more. And I am often so over-zealous and bhakti-drunk that I don't even stop to think about what I want more OF. This is where I get into trouble and this is where my core as a Bhakta(?) meets my "shell".... the Jnani.
To me, Jnana means wisdom or discernment. And I am just starting to recognize now, that having a solid foundation in Jnana is what is necessary to temper my Bhakti. It's kinda like a horse and chariot. The horse is my bhakti.... it's my "motor." Without it, there is no motion. The driver is Jnana. Without him, my chariot will go full speed in no particular direction. Jnana/wisdom/discernment tempering Bhakti/movement/desire.
But, as this realization took root, deep in my soul, a third party made it's presence known.... Pranidhanat/Surrender. This, to me, is what joins these two, Bhakti and Jnana, together into a fully functioning "liberation machine" (aka chariot  ). No matter how profound the desire for complete liberation, no matter how much wisdom is employed, there is always "the unforseen." And this is where Surrender comes in for me. All things happen in their own time.
We are the horse, the driver and the chariot, and yet still we are not in control of where we are going! Letting this settle into my heart, I found myself able to breathe just a little bit deeper and smile just a little bit bigger.
I love you All.
Love!
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2011 : 9:41:04 PM
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| Very discerning. |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2011 : 9:50:10 PM
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| Wow. Good one. It reminds of Nisargadatta Maharaja when he says if you want to have bhakta have bhakta for 'I Am.' Then in that you surrender to pure presence and let it carry you within. Finally you realize that everything just happens and you know that you are untouched by it. Thank you for this. |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2011 : 05:34:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
We are the horse, the driver and the chariot, and yet still we are not in control of where we are going!
And where you think you are going?
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2011 : 09:13:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
And where you think you are going?
I believe it was Yogani that said, "...from here to Here."
Love!
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2011 : 10:35:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
We are the horse, the driver and the chariot,
... we are also the passenger (Arjuna) ... the ego
it is all "ONE". |
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WoodDragon
USA
56 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2011 : 3:11:33 PM
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I Love you too my friend!
You made me smile, I call this "Diving Deep" (I even painted a canvas based on this type of experience) and I always come out of it with a greater "understanding" (as if understanding is anything), the experiences resonate deep within and I feel closer to letting go. Then I surrender, now I surrender every day.
I surrender!
I surrender to Love!
I surrender to Brahman! |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2011 : 3:36:26 PM
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Hi WoodDragon
This "realization" came to me both out of sickness and out of silence.
I got my wisdom teeth removed 8 days ago (and was given midazolam/"Versed" as a sedative for the surgery). I was doing fine for the first 2 days post surgery, but on the third day, I woke up with a bit of a sore throat, and by the end of the work day I couldn't breathe, couldn't swallow, had an insane dry cough happening and could hardly stand up. I went home from work and slept for 26 hours basically straight through. Then I forced myself to get out of bed, take some cold medication and try to continue my daily routine... which I managed to do with only a minor amount of discomfort.
Only yesterday afternoon (after breaking down and going to the doctor to get some antibiotics) was I able to finally say that I think I have reached the pinnacle and am on the backside of the hill now. Up until yesterday afternoon I had been completely unable to do any practices. This is the longest break I have had without practices since starting AYP in early 2008. I even had to get a sub to teach my Sunday morning AYP class. It was a sort of "forced" self pacing, and I basically just had to accept it... which is hard with all the bhakti here.
Anyway, yesterday afternoon I finally felt well enough to sit for pranayama and meditation. It was wonderful to get back into my usual practice routine. Nothing spectacular happened during the session, but there was quiet and peace. Then, I came out of the rest period, went into the shower, and it was in the shower that the realizations in the original post in this thread came to me. It was like getting smacked in the face with a hammer. Very hard for me to miss the message that was coming in. I'm not totally sure that what was realized came out in my posting, but what was written was as close as I could get with words at the time.
It often seems to happen like this for me. After afternoon practices I usually shower, and this is when the "forced inquiry" and the deep realizations seem to happen. Sometimes they happen during meditation, but I would say it is more common for them to happen after meditation while I am in the shower. Strange. Perhaps I'm just really dirty and need to shower more often, I dunno. 
Love!
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2011 : 01:21:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
quote:
Originally posted by manigma
And where you think you are going?
I believe it was Yogani that said, "...from here to Here."
Don't forget to jump off the chariot when you arrive your destination.
All the best with your journey!
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2011 : 04:22:16 AM
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very nice sharing ...Bhakti ,Jnana , Pranidhanat go all hand in hand
remembered the following raja yoga sutras of Patanjali...
"Union may be had by surrender to God/Ishwara Pranidhanat" (ch.1/23)
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from here to Here |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2011 : 11:19:32 AM
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Carson,
Your post reminded me of our previous conversation. As a wise person once told me "Deeper...wider...It's the same thing... It just depends which angle your head is cocked at"
Sorry to hear about the problems with your surgery. Hope you recover quickly.
Peace & Love.
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2011 : 12:11:12 PM
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Thank you Carson, this speaks to my heart
Tons of Love to you!
3~D |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2011 : 12:27:47 PM
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Thanks for all the kind feedback everyone.
@Manigma: quote:
Don't forget to jump off the chariot when you arrive your destination
Not sure who exactly would be jumping off the chariot, considering "I" am the chariot... and the horse, and the driver (and as Shweta said, the passenger also). To me, it's all about the journey/ride, not the destination.
@Maheswari: A beautiful quote... thank you. Truly, surrender is a main aspect of the path to Unity.... for me.
@Jeff: Whoever said that quote in your post is a complete and total genius!  And, I'm recovering well now.... Woke up this morning with only a slight stuffy nose and a hint of a headache.... I'll be 100% in a few days I think.
@Cosmic: Love you man.
Love!
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2011 : 03:05:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Not sure who exactly would be jumping off the chariot, considering "I" am the chariot... and the horse, and the driver (and as Shweta said, the passenger also). To me, it's all about the journey/ride, not the destination.
Obviously the one who has created the chariot, thinks himself riding on it, thinks that he came from somewhere and is going somewhere, will jump off.
As you quoted yourself, you think you are journeying "from here to Here."
Which means... you are already Here.
And your chariot is running on a treadmill. You are thinking you are going somewhere riding on your beautiful chariot and all... running and running from many lives.
In the end you will find that you were standing right where you started your journey.
YOU NEVER LEFT YOUR PLACE. You were always Here.
But at the moment you think you are riding on a great chariot... maybe a Rocket next... then a Spaceship!
You can carry on enjoying the ride (as long as you wish)... or you can just jump off.
Right Here!
Right Now!
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2011 : 10:15:21 AM
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Hey Manigma
We are here regardless of whether we're riding in our chariots, cruising in our rocketships, or running on our treadmills. We can never NOT be here. We can only fail to recognize it. We don't need to jump off of anything in order to be here, now. Here is here regardless of where we are or what we are doing. This is why I say I am just enjoying the ride and don't care too much about the destination. The destination is not here. The ride, is.
Love!
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2011 : 01:30:18 AM
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Carson,
As one fellow Bhakta to another, you are SO RIGHT about needing to temper the Bhakti path.
Oh, you know better than anyone, how I am coming up short with this still.
In the short term, balancing Bhakta, when desire has outstripped practice cannot be easy..
I see this in myself now. I'm still playing catch up. I certainy have Jnana just like you,
but I sometimes let the Bhakta "run" with a shallow Jnana and use that to "push through"
difficulties, which all too often means hurting people.
It is too easy to be overcome by Bhakti and to become unbalanced. Bhakti does not wish to
be "paced". Pacing and Bhakti seems an impossible mix; I guess that's why there need to
be more limbs in the practice of a Bhakti than just two or three. Oh sure, you and I have
both practiced all eight limbs no doubt.. but probaby not in a good balance yet.
I would love to make this topic an ongoing dialogue, where we learn from each other and any
others which wish to participate.
Your brother in Bhakti,
Kev |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2011 : 03:03:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
This is why I say I am just enjoying the ride and don't care too much about the destination. The destination is not here. The ride, is.
The thing is (even if you don't care about the destination), you do think there is a destination.
If it wasn't so and you didn't care much for the destination... then why all this Bhakti, Jnana, and Pranidhanat? What for and For whom?
It just reminded me of this quote:
Question: Are there fast and slow ways of attainment?
Bodhidharma: If one sees that endless time is the mind, he will attain quickly, but if he makes a point in his mind and aims at his destination, he will attain slowly. The wise one knows his mind is the path; the stupid one makes a path beyond his mind. He does not know where the path is nor does he know that mind itself is the path.
Question: Why does one attain quickly?
Answer: Because mind is the body of the path, therefore is quickly reached. Stupid ones mark their own time starting according to that standard, therefore they must make their own destination according to their own delusions.
Only In Silence - The White Lotus
http://www.balbro.com/lotus/lion9.htm
A thorn is used to pull out a thorn. Once the thorn is out, we throw away both the thorns.
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2011 : 10:08:09 AM
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manigma,
it is true, that the One plays games with all the apparent beings..
the search for enlightenment is of course the master game.
Even when the games apparently stop, one is simply starting to
play a new game, at a new level.
When at last all the games stop, in truth, that is one breath.
The Divine then sheds the old and starts with a new breath.
Little beings form again in an instant.
I seem to remember multiple cycles of this.. which is of course a game.
We can of course be heartless, and beat people over the head wih this "truth",
in a mocking manner, which does not bring any value,
or we can accept the giant hamsterwheel, and love in the moment, withhout
expectation or melodrama.
Then the giant hamster wheel is undone; we stand free of wishing to be free
or not free.
When one stops playing any games, but acts as one finds themselves acting,
realizing that free will is the ultimate game,
then one may be happy, although hamster wheels stretch to infinity.
It no longer matters.
I see no harm in laughing and loving and encouraging, in making the
journey that is not a journey.
If it weren't for maia, there would be noting to pass the time with,
other than not passing the time; that is fine too.
This kind of talk is also a game; a game that easily leads to increased
suffering for others.
Is it actually kind to speak in this manner? Is it actaully of vaue?
I myself find it empty calories. That is just me (not that I exist).
As much as I love the truth, no matter the cost to myself,
I would rather encourage, not put something out there that
many people will not understand properly, and which will cause
them increased suffering.
I'm willing to drink the One's cool aid. It is an act of self-love.
I would be interested (but not interested) in what your response
would be. I know your response, but I'd rather wait for it anyway.
I have been you, and will be you again.
-Kev |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2011 : 01:52:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kevincann
it is true, that the One plays games...
It is your mind playing games... the multiple cycles, infinite hamsterwheel, loving and encouraging, journey that is not a journey, the truth, self-love, the suffering...
I see no games, no cycles, no wheels, no suffering, no self love, no journey, no compassion, no truth.
quote:
I have been you, and will be you again.
I am, what I am.
You can be whatever you want.
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Bhakti, Jnana, and Pranidhanat
