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gamefu
India
23 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 13 2011 : 11:19:43 PM
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Is meditation only the stillness/clearance of the mind during meditation? Or it has something more to it? I don't mean the benefits of meditation but with what goes on during meditation.
How do you still your mind? You might be following a certain approach/technique for this? When I clear my mind of any thoughts,I still think that ok I have cleared my mind now.How do I deal with this? There should be nothing going on in my mind during meditation,right? How do you do this?
For some reason when I meditate,it seems breathing doesn't happen automatically for me? I have to consciously do it.What should I do to free my mind from breathing?
I have read the AYP lesson regarding repeating a mantra,losing it,coming back to it.So breathing should not be used to go inwards,but we should start from within.So I want to become unconscious of my breathing during meditation,but how? |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2011 : 4:22:06 PM
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Hi Gamefu,
That's an insightful question.
IMO, it's more practical to view meditation as a process, rather than just a state of mind, because actively pushing the mind into a state would lead to a backlash (I mean, make it react in the opposite direction).
There are other mental techniques to minimize the stream of thoughts; for example, actively "watching" the mind to see if a thought is emerging - and, funnily, thoughts tend to cease as long as the watching is on (I think this comes from Eckhardt Tolle).
However, the AYP way is about favoring the mantra without actively stopping or evaluating the thoughts. And, thoughts about thoughts/thinking/non-thinking etc. make no difference, they're still thoughts (in fact, they're quite frequent in the beginning, or at intense retreats/workshops) - so, just gently return to your mantra over and over again, almost effortlessly, no matter the content of the thoughts. That's the core of the technique; no point in pushing yourself.
After a longer period of daily practice, many meditators start to distinguish a focal point of the mind as opposed to periphery, and with practice, the mantra stays in the middle for longer and longer periods of time, making the thoughts, sensations, etc. move to the periphery. So the cessation of mind fluctuation (chittavrtti nirodhah) occurs as a side effect, without fighting the thoughts.
That's a key difference between active concentration techniues and meditation; also, over the past few years, several Western scientific studies have indicated that the meditation way is more efficient. To my understanding, you achieve more by chasing nothing - because you can't stop a river but you can lead water into a new riverbed and see what happens; this approach is equally useful in yoga & tantra practice, we kind of cheat the ego and the mind fluctuations by gently leading the energy into the practice, over and over.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2011 : 7:35:40 PM
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Yes, let thoughts come as they will and when you notice simply favour the mantra without trying to quiet or push the thought away.Sometimes you have the thought 'my mind is quiet' or 'I need my mind to be quiet' or 'ah yes, it's quiet and I'm relaxed' all these are thoughts that have a pull. When you notice.........gently favour the mantra.
Even during this process the thoughts may come back stronger and cancel the mantra, then you notice that this has happened and just go back GENTLY to favour the mantra.
Sometimes you lose both mantra and thoughts, sometimes the thought is the mantra, again, as soon as it is noticed go GENTLY back to the mantra. Sometimes you don't notice and wind up completing the 20 minutes wondering if you achieved anything.
This is a gentle process, the less force you use the easier it all flows, the more you force the more uncomfortable and tiring it becomes. Even in the forced mantra there is progress it's just the process becomes a bit spikey.
Sometimes you will forget to breath, sometimes you will feel that breathing is getting synchronised with the mantra and will seek to break the loop. It doesn't matter, as soon as you notice you are fretting over either, again, just gently favour the mantra.
Eventually you will reach a point when you don't care what thoughts come, you can let them fly around like so many buzzing flies while the mantra seems to occupy a larger and larger space but at an incredibly subtle level. It becomes something which I cannot describe.
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Edited by - karl on Mar 15 2011 7:47:12 PM |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2011 : 9:38:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
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Eventually you will reach a point when you don't care what thoughts come, you can let them fly around like so many buzzing flies while the mantra seems to occupy a larger and larger space but at an incredibly subtle level. It becomes something which I cannot describe.
Nice description...even if you don't think you can describe it... |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2011 : 4:53:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gamefu
So I want to become unconscious of my breathing during meditation,but how?
Simply know that you neither breathe nor meditate. 
1. AS BREATH TURNS FROM DOWN TO UP, AND AGAIN AS BREATH CURVES FROM UP TO DOWN -- THROUGH BOTH THESE TURNS, REALIZE.
2. WHEN ON A BED OR A SEAT, LET YOURSELF BECOME WEIGHTLESS, BEYOND MIND.
3. SIMPLY BY LOOKING INTO THE BLUE SKY BEYOND CLOUDS, THE SERENITY.
~The Book of Secters - OSHO
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How to still my mind and breathe unconsciously?
