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EverVigilant
USA
9 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 13 2011 : 11:11:57 PM
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In a previous thread I asked if my jaw should be moving during the mantra, and the response was a no.
Since then I have been making my best effort to experience the sound only in my mind and nowhere else. This has been extremely difficult. For some reason, some physical part of me wants to be part of this, whether my jaw or my breath.
I have been battling this instinct, with some success. It's very difficult to experience a sound in my head at all without some physical motion; the sound is very vague and quiet and I wonder if it's even happening. Nevertheless, there is a certain quietness in my mind while I am making this attempt, where all thought shuts down, which I guess is the whole point of the exercise, right?
Plus, I definitely feel stuff in my head when I do this the "right" way. To try to better explain myself, it's a feeling that gives me a premonition that if I keep working at it, it's going to get easier. It almost feels like I'm trying to break through a wall, or break out of the inside of an eggshell. If I can just get it started, the barrier will start crumbling apart more easily. Does that resonate with anybody else's experience?
I also can't seem to completely separate the mantra from my breathing. If I try, I stop breathing entirely. Needless to say that can't last too long. So I try to hear it with the in-breaths, with the out-breaths, and with the spaces in between (the stopped breathing silence). Ideally should I somehow be able to relegate the breathing entirely to the unconscious breathing "daemon" (like when I'm doing some task) so I can meditate without caring one whit about what's going on with the breathing? If so, how do I get there? I can't seem to do that. Breathing is so intertwined with all this.
Appreciate the help!
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Edited by - AYPforum on Feb 14 2011 03:38:18 AM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2011 : 12:55:11 AM
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| It takes time and practice. Also kechari specifically helps in the case of the jaw moving during mantra. The more complete kechari becomes the less this should be an issue |
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Delara
Lebanon
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2011 : 03:21:02 AM
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Hi EverVigilant;
I'm new to DM also and I seem to share your challenge when it comes to breathing with mantra.My breath is synchronized with the mantra too.
I was given the advice by a friend to drop the mantra and watch my breath instead.that's,letting the breath moves naturally in and out without any control and just keep watching it .
good luck n hope ur DM will be enjoyable and peaceful.
Namaste |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2011 : 03:37:47 AM
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Dear Delara,
thank you for your input. Usually breath meditation is taken by those who experience overloading symptoms.
In your case dear EverVigilant, it's a good advice also since things seem to be going very muddy... And meditation should be going smooth and easy. I'd go with the breath meditation for a while and see how things go...
But if you're ready to give mantra meditation another shot...
As for being Ever Vigilant, vigilance is not something which is always needed in deep meditation. You should let go on things and not focus on the location of the mantra. We first sit and relax just watch our thoughts and then we introduce the mantra as another thought and let it take us wherever it may and when we wander in thoughts we just go back to the mantra. It's a game and you should take it easily and enjoy. In fact deep meditation is more about the letting go and falling in the gap then it is about being vigilant about the mantra.
Just let the mantra take you. Try this for a couple of times, if things are good continue and if not then I'd take on breath meditation instead for a few months and reconsider taking on mantra meditation at a later time.
Also keep in mind that you are where you should be, you own/have nothing but the now to enjoy. Just enjoy where you are and take on what makes you most comfortable.
Love,
Ananda |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2011 : 03:38:18 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2011 : 2:40:37 PM
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Hi EverVigilant,
I have the same problem as you. I was doing a breath meditation for 1.5 years and now I have a really hard time to forget about the breath. The same problem is also that my consciousness needs to be somwhere in my body. That's also because of the breath meditation where I was focusing on the lower abdomen and placed my mind there. I have absolutely no idea how to get totally into the mantra and how to forget about body and breath since it's already a natural habit.
I'll just keep practicing and eventually the habit will change.
I'll let you know if I find a way to do it besides persistant practice.
Yaming |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2011 : 3:47:56 PM
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Dear Yaming,
May I suggest you add on the solar centering practice for you and keeping the mantra at the solar plexus.
http://www.aypsite.org/368.html
Could you try that out for one day and tell us what happens please, I think it would be a good transition facilitator for people who are used to focus on certain centers in their body...
As for the breath, everything will refine into nothingness with time... Including the mantra... Just introduce the mantra as a thought and take it easy on yourself don't push too hard. When you're off from the mantra with thought or breath, that's okay just easily come back to it. The thing is like a game really, just take it easy and good things will happen.
Love,
Ananda |
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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2011 : 10:11:42 PM
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Hi Ananda,
thank you very much for the advice! I will try it out and of course I will report back. The lesson is quite usefull. Basically Yogani says that we are anywas locating the mantra somwehere in the body but we are not conscious of it. The problem that I have is that I'm already conscious of it due to my previous meditation experience and my martial arts background. I wouldn't have tried it without the advice though. Since it's suggested that one has to be very stable with the mantra meditation. So thanks for the help!
Yaming |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 02:10:22 AM
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You're welcome bro and I think it's okay for you to try it out, you have 1.5 years of breath meditation under your belt... From one hand by this experiment you might help yourself and from the other you will help others also... All good karma
Love,
Ananda |
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EverVigilant
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 10:01:36 AM
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm starting to wonder if I'm just trying too hard. What I might try is a breath meditation as a sort of primary focus, and then experiment with introducing the mantra more or less casually during the meditation. I do think I might be on the right track because my mind quiets down and I feel refreshed and more aware and in-the-moment after the 20 minutes are over. Perhaps this is all much ado about nothing.
As for location, I would say it's definitely happening in my head. I didn't even think about trying to "locate" the mantra in other parts of my body. I can imagine how that can be done though; I might play with that too.
quote:
As for being Ever Vigilant, vigilance is not something which is always needed in deep meditation. You should let go on things and not focus on the location of the mantra. We first sit and relax just watch our thoughts and then we introduce the mantra as another thought and let it take us wherever it may and when we wander in thoughts we just go back to the mantra. It's a game and you should take it easily and enjoy. In fact deep meditation is more about the letting go and falling in the gap then it is about being vigilant about the mantra.
Well, my screenname is not really about this practice. It's actually a name I had used in the past on forums related to psychological problems I have, and it's a name nobody in my real life knows yet. I kind of consider spiritual practice as an extension of the psychological work I've been doing with myself since 2003 (when I discovered I am narcissistic, as you can see with all the "I" that I'm using here ). It's self-improvement, the same "area of my life" of the psychological stuff. So I borrowed the screenname.
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Edited by - EverVigilant on Feb 15 2011 10:10:33 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 12:10:48 PM
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No worries my friend, all humanity is narcissistic
As for playing around with the location of the mantra, a gentle suggestion from this side is to let it take you wherever it wants. Be it in the head or in the heart... Just let it go and flow with it...
As for trying too hard... Better soften a bit, the middle path is always best.
Love,
Ananda |
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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 3:29:29 PM
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So I tried the solar centering technique out. It wasn't easy to get the mantra down to the solar plexus. Most of the time it was like I would have the mantra in my head and have my attention on the solar plexus. But what I have understood the mantra should be located at the solar plexus. I reached this state a few times.
The next day I was in a terrible mood but I'm not sure it was because of the meditation. It's raining here for a while now (I really really really dislike rain. I'm a sun adict) and I am struggling with an injury which is keeping me away from my training (two weeks already). There are enough reasons that I would be in a bad mood. That's why I continued the solar centering today and so far everything is alright. I'm not wuite sure now, if I should continue the solar centering or if I should stay in my head with the mantra. The good thing about the solar centering is, that I'm less likely to pay attention to my breath, which is a good thing.
Any suggestions?
Yaming |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 3:47:04 PM
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Hi Yaming,
If you think that the mood swing or any bad symptoms occurred because of the enhancement then by all means leave it.
On the other hand, there's that clunky stage which we all go through first with every enhancement so I think it's safe to try it out for a day more but don't try too hard just take it easy with the practice.
If things don't work out well, go back for letting the mantra be where it may but take things easily. Things will refine in time.. And remember this is a process of letting go and gentle persuasion even with the solar enhancement; Just gently introduce the mantra.
All the best,
Ananda
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Yaming
Switzerland
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2011 : 10:14:12 PM
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Hi Ananda,
yeah I have actually a really hard time to take it easy... I'm the person who normally is really focused on something. Lol it's so ironic how hard it can be to take it easy. For me it feels like I want to watch and learn something, but I'm not allowed to look closely on it.
Of course I will drop the enhancement when I realize that it's too much. Normally I'm good at self-pacing myself in spiritual practices. More the guy who takes a few more weeks of practice in account before progressing, instead of rushing into it.
Yaming |
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