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Chrisk
USA
87 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 17 2011 : 3:03:20 PM
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Coming from a different discipline I' m new to AYP but i do have about 5 years experience in mental processes.
Anyways, to cut matters short, it seems that I reached a dead- lock point where when I do the deep meditation, at some point during the practice I get numb the whole body and then I sort of start shivering. This isn' t so bad, but the problem seems that after a while I end up shaking faster and stronger to the point that I feel that somebody actually grabs me and shakes violently. Obviously I cant go on my DM this way so I have to stop. Well, and here I am asking this peculiar question!!
What on earth could be causing this?? Am I oversensitive? Should I tone down? Have I been doing something wrong in my previous practice, or with AYP? Is there really such a huge karmic block that I am trying to overcome and causes the uncontrollable shaking?
Anyone experienced this before and how can I settle it down, so I can continue the DM process?
Thank you very much and any help is of course greatly appreciated.
Chris.
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2011 : 5:05:01 PM
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Hello Chrisk,
the shaking means that the k energy has reached an impasse somewhere that it is not making progress on.
you've got the right idea, I think. essentially, this is a karmic block that you are attempting to overcome with force (as you suspected). it is not ready to come out yet.
or, it may be that it is quite a large and complex block, and in this case one particular step is necessary to begin the unbinding and the healing.
i would try a few different methods on this, including acupuncture, massage or something else.
where is the block?
it should be rather obvious, or at least you will probably have a clue or two about its location. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2011 : 5:41:01 PM
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Oh, the other thing you should say is how much you are practicing per day.  |
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Chrisk
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2011 : 6:39:43 PM
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Hello Tonightsthenight, I will investigate gradually where the blockage is and work from inside out as well as from the outside in. Why would a blockage not be ready to come out yet, though? That is strange to me. I' ll "smoke" it out, as President Bush used to say, rather, I' ll work on it slowly, bit-by-bit.
So true, Karl, also!
Thank you all and as always I' m grateful.
Chris.
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2011 : 6:53:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chrisk
I get numb the whole body
Hi Chrisk,
I have experienced various kinds of bodily shaking. It is all good because it is all an opportunity to learn.
My first questions have to do with when you "get numb" across your whole body. Is it the kind of "numbness" that comes with lack of circulation? What position are you sitting in during Deep Meditation? Do you have/need back support? Are you dressed warmly enough?
Have you tried an upright seated posture with back support and feet flat on the floor?
Bewell
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Chrisk
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2011 : 6:53:12 PM
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| I do 40mins daily per Yogani instructions. |
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Chrisk
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2011 : 6:58:29 PM
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Yes, i actually sit upright with back support and feet flat on the floor, but I' m considering gradually move to yoga postures, though i cant do any of them yet due to lakc of flexibility yet.
The numbness seems to be actually the kind of fallin to extreme bodily relaxation, i.e. some heaviness, or unwillingness to move due to deep relaxation of whole body. I' ll have to check this again on my next DM session. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2011 : 7:04:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chrisk
Coming from a different discipline I' m new to AYP but i do have about 5 years experience in mental processes.
Anyways, to cut matters short, it seems that I reached a dead- lock point where when I do the deep meditation, at some point during the practice I get numb the whole body and then I sort of start shivering. This isn' t so bad, but the problem seems that after a while I end up shaking faster and stronger to the point that I feel that somebody actually grabs me and shakes violently. Obviously I cant go on my DM this way so I have to stop. Well, and here I am asking this peculiar question!!
What on earth could be causing this?? Am I oversensitive? Should I tone down? Have I been doing something wrong in my previous practice, or with AYP? Is there really such a huge karmic block that I am trying to overcome and causes the uncontrollable shaking?
Anyone experienced this before and how can I settle it down, so I can continue the DM process?
Thank you very much and any help is of course greatly appreciated.
Chris.
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Hi Chris,
Maybe keep a track on how many min into your meditation this numbness sets in, and then only meditate for a time shorter than that. So if this numbness sets it at about 10 min. Meditate for 5 to 7 min twice a day. After a few weeks, increase your time and see if things have smoothed out. If not, keep going with the shorter time. This is like any other purification symptom, your body telling you your limit for the moment. Honor it and take listen to it and there should be a smooth transition into full 20 min of deep meditation very soon.
Hope this helps.
Wish you all the best!!! |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2011 : 7:15:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chrisk
Yes, i actually sit upright with back support and feet flat on the floor... extreme bodily relaxation, i.e. some heaviness, or unwillingness to move due to deep relaxation of whole body.
Ok, I see.
I went through a stage when I could go into shakes like that, but what I soon learned is that I could make a mental decision to allow it or not. In my case, to allow the shakes, I would relax. I could also relax and not allow the shakes. I do not recall "numbness." Given that difference, I am guessing that the numbness is making you out of touch with your body and thus also out of touch with you ability to make mental decisions about what to allow or not. Given that difference, I am not sure what to suggest exactly except that you perhaps experiment with mentally allowing it or not.
Another difference is that I actually enjoyed the shakes. Outside of DM practice, I would go into it voluntarily and enjoy the show. Do you find any pleasure in it?
Be
PS Hi Shanti |
Edited by - bewell on Jan 17 2011 7:16:32 PM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2011 : 8:14:29 PM
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Bewell, You can initiate or cease the shaking because ultimately you have control over where the k goes. The shaking comes because on some level you are urging the energy on, and your body is not ready for it to go there yet.
The shaking simply means that your nervous system is not ready for the amount of energy that is in a given place.
Chrisk,
You mentioned lack of flexibility. How much tension do you have in your body? Lack of flexibility is correlated with lots of tension, though this may not be the case for you. Any physical traumas or limitations? Areas of pain or sensitivity?
Do you do asanas? If not you should consider it.
I would recommend seeing a TCM as one possibility. Acupuncture and possibly some herbs could be a tremendous help to you.
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2011 : 8:54:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Bewell, You can initiate or cease the shaking because ultimately you have control over where the k goes. The shaking comes because on some level you are urging the energy on, and your body is not ready for it to go there yet.
The shaking simply means that your nervous system is not ready for the amount of energy that is in a given place.
tonightsthenight
As I read your interpretation of the experience I described, the key word is "ultimately." As for me, I do not claim to have ultimate control of the k energy in my body, nor do I aspire to such control. I claim my limitations.
When the spontaneous whole body shaking was going on, I consciously allowed it or did not consciously allow it. That phase of my body having an inclination toward such shaking during blissful relaxation lasted maybe six months. Currently, it is not the same: I can relax and "allow" just like back then, but now there is no shaking. I tested it just before writing this.
I agree with you that the shaking had to do with the limited capacity of my neurobiological system to receive the K energy. It has smoothed out since then, not because there is less K, but rather, because my neurobiology has matured. The energy is more centered in the spinal channel now, and somehow does not stimulate shaking muscular action -- these days it is more like a peaceful divine embrace.
Looking back, those were good times back when my body was less mature! I could enjoy reliving those shakes. Fun indeed. (Just to me clear, these last few lines are not sarcastic.)
bewell |
Edited by - bewell on Jan 17 2011 9:23:21 PM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2011 : 9:22:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
Those were good times back when my body was less mature! I could enjoy reliving those shakes. Fun indeed. (Just to me clear, these last few lines are not sarcastic.)
bewell
hehehehehe! |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2011 : 9:24:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
hehehehehe!
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Chrisk
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2011 : 11:40:19 AM
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Thaks to all for all the info, I will certainly take my time to work through this problem until i have a breakthrough and i will post my results once again.
You all folks sure are helpful. Thanks again very much.
Though i dont understand why BeWell would prefer the pre-kundalini shaking to the post-kundalini bliss conciousness.
Thanks again,
Chris.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2011 : 12:01:30 PM
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Hi Chris,
I experienced shaking for about 5 years early on in my practice. It is all good and is caused by prana purifying the subtle nerve channels (nadis). Gradually, as these channels become more purified, the shaking will stop. You don't need to stop your meditation practice because this is happening unless you feel uncomfortable about it.
The numbness is caused by your consciousness shifting from the physical realm to the astral realm (the realm of thought, astral vision and subtle energy). You can completely lose all awareness of your body during meditation and when you finish the meditation you can be almost completely unable to move any part of your body. Gradually your conscious awareness will return to the physical plane, and you will be able to move again. This numbness can be an aspect of entrance into samadhi and I also see no reason to stop your meditation because it is happening.
Enjoy!
Christi |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2011 : 4:40:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chrisk
Thaks to all for all the info, I will certainly take my time to work through this problem until i have a breakthrough and i will post my results once again.
You all folks sure are helpful. Thanks again very much.
Though i dont understand why BeWell would prefer the pre-kundalini shaking to the post-kundalini bliss conciousness.
Thanks again,
Chris.
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Because the shaking can be present during bliss consciousness.
The shaking is not necessarily "pre kundalini."
You may have very advanced bliss consciousness, and then encounter a blockage that was previously unexposed.
In this case, the bliss consciousness would be combined with the excitement of new experiences, therefore I can see why Bewell may have enjoyed it (for a short time, eventually it would probably become unenjoyable). |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2011 : 4:49:20 PM
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| Looking back, I regard the shaking as the rise of what we in AYP call "ecstatic conductivity" (or kundalini energy) and it happened during a deeply relaxed blissful consciousness. For me, it simply felt good and it was exercise and I trusted that it was doing something that would promote maturation. It was not scary or annoying because I learned that I could stop allowing it in an instant by conscious decision and be still. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2011 : 9:20:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
Looking back, I regard the shaking as the rise of what we in AYP call "ecstatic conductivity" (or kundalini energy) and it happened during a deeply relaxed blissful consciousness. For me, it simply felt good and it was exercise and I trusted that it was doing something that would promote maturation. It was not scary or annoying because I learned that I could stop allowing it in an instant by conscious decision and be still.
yeah, i agree that it's not a "negative" in this context... but there is shaking, and then there is shaking.... that latter more akin to seizures and that is not an experience i want to have again |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2011 : 12:30:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by but there is ...shaking, and then there is [i]shaking.... that latter more akin to seizures and that is not an experience i want to have again
How was what you call a "seizure" different: Were you unable to stop it by choice? Were you unable to "witness" it from a place of bliss? Did it seem physically unhealthy? Did it lead to a feeling of terror? |
Edited by - bewell on Jan 19 2011 12:50:12 AM |
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Phaedris
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2011 : 01:05:52 AM
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I'd suggest doing some exercise on the Microcosmic Orbit. This will eventually allow you to continue your practice without having to 'turn off' your deep meditation.
Namaste,
Phaedris |
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Phaedris
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2011 : 12:19:39 AM
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Why is it that, After Practicing for a while, some People Jerk about Spasmodically, assume Yoga Positions or Elicit Various Sounds?
Shaking is not an unusual effect and is, in fact, beneficial, serving as an internal exercise. Concentrating on just one thought has been known to stop it and if it becomes really violent you can end it simply by ordering it to stop. However, I encourage everyone to shake for the benefits they can derive from it. To do this they can either pretend that they are shaking or concentrate on the navel, exhaling as though into the stomach and through the back. If they continue to exhale until they no longer can, they will begin to shake. To stop this shaking, just order it to stop and breathe normally.
Mantak Chia: Awakening Healing Energy Through the Tao
pp. 105-106
Namaste,
Phaedris |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2011 : 12:34:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
quote:
Originally posted by but there is ...shaking, and then there is [i]shaking.... that latter more akin to seizures and that is not an experience i want to have again
How was what you call a "seizure" different: Were you unable to stop it by choice? Were you unable to "witness" it from a place of bliss? Did it seem physically unhealthy? Did it lead to a feeling of terror?
Yeah, it didn't happen by choice. There was still a blissful aspect but it felt out of control (it was quite brief). This one particular time there were shockwaves going down my spine so that first my head would pop up a foot off the ground and the wave would continue through down to the coccyx. No feelings of terror though in fact I was laughing |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2011 : 12:37:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Phaedris
Why is it that, After Practicing for a while, some People Jerk about Spasmodically, assume Yoga Positions or Elicit Various Sounds?
Shaking is not an unusual effect and is, in fact, beneficial, serving as an internal exercise. Concentrating on just one thought has been known to stop it and if it becomes really violent you can end it simply by ordering it to stop. However, I encourage everyone to shake for the benefits they can derive from it. To do this they can either pretend that they are shaking or concentrate on the navel, exhaling as though into the stomach and through the back. If they continue to exhale until they no longer can, they will begin to shake. To stop this shaking, just order it to stop and breathe normally.
Mantak Chia: Awakening Healing Energy Through the Tao
pp. 105-106
Namaste,
Phaedris
Hey Phaedris, the shaking we're discussing is not the same thing that you've referenced there. |
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Phaedris
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2011 : 02:11:23 AM
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I disagree, especially considering that Chrisk has stated that he enjoys the shaking and is able to control it.
Phaedris |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2011 : 05:45:50 AM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by
...it didn't happen by choice. There was still a blissful aspect but it felt out of control (it was quite brief). This one particular time there were shockwaves going down my spine so that first my head would pop up a foot off the ground and the wave would continue through down to the coccyx. No feelings of terror though in fact I was laughing
Ok, I see. Sounds like yours was more a one-time experience. After that you decided not to allow that "out of control" experience to repeat.
I liked watching my body go out of control. It felt mythic, like I had the head of a person, witness consciousness, and the body of a horse, galloping freely. I liked it so I did not want to quit allowing it daily, but I also needed to protect my neck. I was getting close to whiplash. So I started wearing a neck brace. The use of a brace pad around my neck went on for maybe a few weeks. Then I decided to make a conscious decision to allow less range of motion.
This conversation with all of you on this thread seems to have influenced my inner energy levels. Yesterday in my sit, I actually felt some shivers and shakes and maybe even somewhat of a numbness. I did some spinal breathing, with a bit of micro cosmic orbit and watched the energy form a more smooth flow until soon I was back in a physically relaxed phase, but very energized.
Wishing you all safe travels,
Bewell |
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Shaking during Deep Meditation
