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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

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Originally posted by Chela7
Hi Tibetan Ice,

I am pushing 30 years old, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

I have been practicing the SRF Energization Exercises on and off for a long time, but I am trying to be more consistent.

The Kriya Proper or Kriya Pranayama of SRF is the same as AYP spinal breathing, the only difference is that it is done with the mouth open, mulabandha is not applied and the eyebrows are not knitted when doing sambhavi.


In your opinion,if I exclude the energization exercises from my routine will I lose much benefit as far as kundalini awakening is concerned? Can these exercises be done instead of Kunlun?

Thank you TI

-Chela7

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Hi Chela7 :)
Thank you for the information..
You are asking me very hard questions. For one, the SRF energization exercises are excellent and probably, with a good teacher, the whole SRF teachings would take you there. If you studied the SRF lessons, you would not only know how to control the divine energy, use it to heal yourself and others, read minds and a number of other esoteric practices.. Kriya Yoga is highly regarded and you could probably spend a lifetime just with their teachings.

AYP has practices, lessons that you can follow, but the structure is looser; you are at liberty to pick and choose which practices to perform. The base building blocks are to start with "I AM" meditation and once you have a modicum of inner silence, you can start to add other practices like spinal breathing, YMK etc. Again, there are great resources in this forum and AYP has started holding retreats where you can meet experienced practitioners. One of the main ideas in AYP is that you clear the blockages and tune your system in preparation for kundalini awakening, rather than activate kundalini straight off and risk overload or other detrminental side-effects. You will hear alot about staying away from the crown and self-pacing. There is some value in these concepts.

Kulun is a totally different thing. I did take a kunlun seminar and I wrote a short post about it here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....age=11#73499

Kulun is like practicing no-mind, opening etheric pathways through reflexing shaking and using Taoist practices like the inner smile, chi cultivation and storing it in the lower tan tien. Like I've mentioned in other posts, shaking is a good way to open etheric pathways; I even have an Osho DVD on kundalini meditation that uses dance and shaking as part of the meditation. There are also those kulun practitioners who swear that all they need to become fully realized is Kunlun and Red Phoenix.. It may be true, life is short...

If you want to activate your kundalini, and you have experience as a meditator and in yogic practices, I would recommend trying the following kundalini meditation: http://www.crystalinks.com/kundalini.html

I did this meditation twice and was quite successful. One warning though, if you do this properly and succeed, you won't want to have sex for many months after because it just pales in comparison. Also, if something goes wrong and you overload or have a bad experience, remember that you chose to try it. There are many complaints about having to pick up the pieces here in this forum. Typical kundalini bad effects come from not taking her to the crown, from kundalini rising in either ida or pingala, or worse yet, getting stuck and then trucking around your system attacking organs along the way as she tries to find shiva.

Actually, this is not a bad video on kundalini (there are three parts):
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/9290408

I hope you have also read the classics like "Gopi Krishna's Kundalini: The Evolutionary Energy in Man." and "Autobiography of a Yogi", the "Baghavad Gita", "I AM THAT by Nisargadatta"...

And then again, here is one of my favorite resources, Gurudeva and "Merging with Shiva":
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/res...ontents.html

In any spiritual practice, the speed at which you progress is based on a number of factors:
1) Your level or karmic development
2) Your understanding of the practices and performing them correctly
3) Your earnestness and dedication
4) Discovering the method that works for you.

Where does it all end? I don't know. Lately I'm favoring Ramana and Nisargadatta and self-inquiry. Who is having all these experiences? Who am I? Just sit, focus on the feeling of "I AM" and ignore everything else that happens. Just ask, "to whom is this experience occuring?" and sit in silence..

A good word of advice is this: Try to stick to one body of practices at a time. Don't mix and match practices from one teaching to another. Or, if you do, keep them quite separate, practice them at different times and try to research the ill-effects of doing so. The main problem with mixing practices is that if something happens (good or bad) you don't really know what caused it, one practice or the other, or perhaps a combination. As well, some practices' effects have a rebound effect which doesn't manifest until a day or two after.. Something to think about.

I agree with Yogani, you are in it for the long haul, not the short sprint. It is important to establish a routine and stick to it.

It is also important to understand what you are doing, not just doing something blindly because someone else is doing it.

Hopefully I've given you enough insite so that you can answer your own questions. I'm not a guru and I don't feel right telling people what to do. I can only share my experiences and knowledge, for what little that may be worth..

:)
TI

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Originally posted by Nathan

Hi Chela,

For the meditation part of my practice I look upwards to the point between the eyebrows and focus attention there, while 'I Am' or "Hong Sau' is repeating with the inhalation and exhalation. Traditionally, the Ajna chakra is one object of concentration that can be used in yoga; one can meditate on that center, or from that center. Yes, in Yogananda's teachings this center is given pivotal importance; he called it the 'polestar of spiritual consciousness.' The heart center can be focused on also. The meditation method taught here of repeating 'I Am' is good also. As the mantra is repeated more and more inwardly, one is moving into silence.

I don't have the information with me, but I compiled some quotes on the Ajna chakra if you're interested.

Here is a link to some good meditation instructions (which you may already know):

http://www.ananda.org/meditation/le...chnique.html

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Originally posted by Chela7

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Originally posted by Nathan

Hi Chela,

For the meditation part of my practice I look upwards to the point between the eyebrows and focus attention there, while 'I Am' or "Hong Sau' is repeating with the inhalation and exhalation. Traditionally, the Ajna chakra is one object of concentration that can be used in yoga; one can meditate on that center, or from that center. Yes, in Yogananda's teachings this center is given pivotal importance; he called it the 'polestar of spiritual consciousness.' The heart center can be focused on also. The meditation method taught here of repeating 'I Am' is good also. As the mantra is repeated more and more inwardly, one is moving into silence.

I don't have the information with me, but I compiled some quotes on the Ajna chakra if you're interested.

Here is a link to some good meditation instructions (which you may already know):

http://www.ananda.org/meditation/le...chnique.html

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Hi Nathan,

Thank you. I was under the impression that I AM mantra is to be mentally favored regardless of location. So do you think that by favoring I AM mantra deeper and deeper,while focused in the ajna, the results could be better?

I think Yogani even mentions that eventually the body automatically goes into sambhavi during meditation, so why not just do it deliberately from the start while doing I AM DM?

I would like to know what you and anyone else on the forum thinks about this. Thank you in advance.

-Chela7

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If you find the mantra occurring in particular locations, that is okay. We don't resist that. Nor do we encourage it. Just as we let the mantra settle down naturally to quieter and quieter levels, so too do we let it occur in the body wherever it is naturally. If it doesn't occur in any particular place, that is okay too. It is not about physical locations. The mantra naturally resonates according to the complex purification process going on inside us while we are meditating. All we have to do is follow the simple procedure of thinking the mantra easily, and picking it back up easily when we realize we have been off it.

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Originally posted by Chela7

Hi All,

Thank you Nathan and Shanti. Actually I have already tried both ways. After AYP DM using the I AM mantra I just feel calmer, When I do DM using the mantra OM I literally feel my body spinning and floating, When I just meditate by focusing at the ajna I feel vibrant power from the third eye and after the session I feel as if I am walking on clouds. From these experiences which approach do you believe gives better and faster results?

-Chela7

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Originally posted by Holy

If you add AYP DM to the routine, the routine will be way too intense. It is hard to combine AYP with full spectrum kriya yoga. It is doable in a more avanced and cleaned body-mind system, but for the initial years the combination will not work for the most.

You can try AYP DM and you will have such great effects, that you will go on with it instead of the ajna-meditation. Then after some weeks you will see that something is missing, something that your ajna-medi provided. And this can confuse to the level that you stop AYP DM and start with ajna again. And whoa, how good the ajna medi is, such great effects. After some weeks you'll miss some things again, this time of DM's good effects =P

Have gone through this with all kind of combinations and switches many many times ^^ The switch is so good, because you have the effets of both techniques blended for some time. But the switching prevents deepening.

Concentration - meditation - samadhi not only applies on the short term level but also on the long term level. It is hard to manage this alone, some long-term-experienced-input is very helpful.

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Originally posted by Holy

Have gone through this with all kind of combinations and switches many many times ^^ The switch is so good, because you have the effets of both techniques blended for some time. But the switching prevents deepening.

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Originally posted by Nathan

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Originally posted by Holy

Have gone through this with all kind of combinations and switches many many times ^^ The switch is so good, because you have the effets of both techniques blended for some time. But the switching prevents deepening.

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I've also noticed that when I switch things are good in the beginning, not only from the effects of both being blended, but also the freshness, interest, and enthusiasm that is hard to maintain when doing the same thing day after day. There is freshness even if I've done the method many times in the past, but have taken a break or done something else for a while. Sometimes skipping just half a day or a day is helpful in reestablishing interest.

Chela,

I don't think you're going to get a definitive answer or consensus on what you should practice. In the past I too have sought validation or consensus on what I was practicing. It seems to be better for me if I don't go looking for that, but stick to the words of the teacher. A lot of the people here are practicing what is taught here, so it's likely that that's what they'll recommend. You might check out one of the srf/yogananda forums, since your practice has been along those lines, and you can get inspiration for what you're already practicing.

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Originally posted by Holy

@Chela7

Nathan says it. It is the one same question I have asked many years ago too. Many ask it. Hints for finding answers:

Look at people who have realized the truth of who they are and who live in that freedom permanently.
Look if they have a teaching that can be practically applied and that does bring results.
Look at the number of their fellowers and how many of those have reached the same level of their master how fast.

You will find out, that some systems and lineages have more "enlightened people output" than others. To name some who had cought my eye back then.

Ramana Maharshi's lineage.

Babaji and kriya yoga based lineages

and

tantric and tibetan Buddhism with their 6 yogas of Naropa are one of those.

Ramana's teaching stays in huge contrast to the tantric and yogic based sytems and has caused much conusion, but as we see, both work. And in combination even better.

AYP combines most of the good-results-producing elements, so it is no wonder that great results in practinioners here are coming up.

I am not aware of many people that rely on Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's TM alone and have brought it to a point like yogani. Perhaps there are, but remain even more silent.

No one can choose for you. You don't need to worry, if your inner wish is directed towards that highest ideal. Practice daily and all is fine. Sooner or later, you'll see that your victory was already set in the very beginning.

Happy best =)

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Originally posted by Holy

Don't go on confusing yourself with more and other practices. The ones you have are already nr.1. How many months/years have passed since you've started with kriya yoga practice?

The six yogas of Naropa are doing the very same as SPB/kriya pranayama and DM/ajna-meditation/chakra-japa etc.

The core of each of the systems is to bring the energies within the body-mind to the central channel through breathing, visualisation, conentration, mantra, et. for the sole purpose of touching that silence and bringing it "back" to the grossest of grossest. In other words, to bring heaven on earth. Even "deeper", to merge absolute with relative permanently within the body-mind.

The six yogas are more complicated and need more dedication and time to bring success. A karmic buddhist backround will make it much more easy. If you have been drawn to kriya yoga and already have the actual techniques in your hands, it would be really like eating an apple and looking for an orange to switch with yours before having eaten yours to the end.

Both are sweet and both are eaten a little bit differently, but both will make your body happy. AYP is like a banana, eating it is even more easy, but if you eat too much at the same time, it could be too much for your stomach and temporarily create the opposite desired effect.

Which fruit do you choose, all are delicious. Pick one just easily with intuition, don't make it complicated. And then happy eating, it will be just fine.

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Originally posted by Holy

:)

I'm aware of 3-4 variations of kriya yoga techniques, but only regard those valuable which have brought the teacher himself to the source of all sources.

One set is that of Hans from his site: www.kriyayoga.com
One is that of Gurunath directly learned from him.
One is that of Yogananda, through his paper lessons.

Hans' version is more original, Yognanda and Gurunath's versions are more simplified and more easy accessible for the majority of people. One could also say, they are more like AYP. Gurunath's version is a bit more advanced.

The main difference between both systems lies in the meditation part afterwards. AYP uses mantra meditation without specific localization to go deeper. Kriya yoga uses "brute force" karmic imprints cleaning and creates an enivorenment where no thought and deepening happens out of itelf. The one or other system additionally uses this eased state and oncentrates on the ajna (Yogananda), kutashta (Hans) or even the sahasrar (Gurunath).

AYP is more focused on efficiency and for that reason applies perfectly all the mudras and bandhas into the breathing routine, while kriya yoga externalizes this to maha mudra and yoni mudra kumbhakka.

AYP starts the global cleaning on a more refined and deeper level (DM) while kriya yoga starts with an intense grossly-level-cleansing by great amounts of breathing.

AYP aims to bring freedom aka the witness faster into the game to make the cleaning process more self-dependant while kriya yoga builds more upon trust and surrender to the guru/god/ideal and concentrates first on transforming the worlds of movement.

It is easier to do a lot on the refined levels aka mind with DM than on the grossly level with kriya pranayama, which is the reason why the sitting sessions of kriya yoga are longer than those of AYP. It doesn't mean that one is better than the other.

For my body, the AYP apporach alone for example was too direct and intense, meaning the grossly body could not handle the immense subtle cleaning on the mind and thought level and many times got very weak and ill.

The kriya yoga approach did not bring such immediate results but when they came with the same intensity as with ayp, the body was strong enough and was even more heaalthy and strong than ever.

On the other side, the busy world we are living here demands more efficient methods to cope with the inner bhakti of diving deeply into the silent depths. So as you pointed out, 2 times 2-4 hours of kriya yoga is not too easy to bring into the daily routine.

If time is no problem, kriya yoga will do it more smoothly. But if you can't take the time, than AYP will be better. AYP has a limit which kriya yoga has not so much. You can't do 40 minutes of DM to speed up the cleaning if you have more time. But you can double the amount of kriya breaths without getting much problems if you have the time.

In my case, I had to find the middle way of both =P It works for me better than the one or the other alone. If my body could handle any voltage, I'd even choose Maitreya Ishwaras method over any other ^^ Best of best, but nearly undoable if the living style is not optimized and harmonized completely on all levels.

To answer your questions more detailedly:

Yoni mudra in kriya yoga has different usages. Hans uses it wouthout kumbhaka as an aid to concentrate on kutashta in the meditation phase after kriya pranayama. Yogananda uses it similarily for listening to the inner sounds in the chakras and concentrating more easily on ajna at the front. Gurunath uses it very similarily to Yogani's yoni mudra kumbhaka. As I remember Yogananda uses it for that aswell and most probably Yogani got some hints for his version from him ;)

Kriya Yoga thokar vs. AYP chin pump, I can't comment on that too much as I'm not directly into that practice. It happens more automatically here in between and directly before and after sessions out of itself.

Spinal bhastrika vs. long hours kriya pranayama. It comes to the same observations as written above, more eficiency with more strain on the system vs. less efficiency with more smoothness.

There are other good kriya yoga techniques that AYP is not into. One is navi kriya. AYP has it too, but it is different. Navi kriya is mosty done before pranayama and immensly stabilizes and silences the body-mind-system, gives much strength for the long pranayma sessions. Yogananda didn't have long kriya pranayama sessions, so he did not teach navi kriya. Hans' version is build upon increasing kriya numbers so navi kriya is taught directly in the beginning. Gurunath's system starts with low amounts of kriya breaths and increases over months to 12x12 in one year. And somewhere in between he gives advanced lessons where navi kriya, yoni mudra, kechari mudra etc. is taught. Thokar comes even later.

The experiences here say, you don't need so many practices to dive deeep into yourself and bath in peace, come out and live in joy, love and creative intelligence. If bhakti calls, more advanced techniques pop up. It's natural and we are lucky to live in a time where all info is available long ago before we need and/or can apply them.

Sometimes less in practices is more. Too many practices can hinder the deepening into one. There are many people who do full sets of practices and have not much deepening happening while others just do DM and the body goes down because of too much bliss =P

So in your test routine of AYP, the DM part most probably did not go too deep. there were too many other elements before which channeled the energies in dfferent directions. AYP also starts getting very good over some time after DM starts diving deeper and deeper. You would have needed about 30-40+ minutes to get a glimpse how AYP adresses the cleaning.

Puh, one could write muc much more about it. But it would be best if you find something you can really do daily and consistently that works for you, meaning brings you into more and more depths of silence.

I hope that you don't have to test too much anymore to bring this approach to a stable level and can start living the fruit ever growing and tasting better :)

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