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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 09 2010 : 1:53:44 PM
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Hi all,
I am writing this with witness presentan to some degree and a million-and-one thoughts contracting around various painful emotions and positions.
I will say now that this issue I struggle to deal with through mind alone.. meditation is essential but so is some kind of bodymind reconditioning.. and surrender.
I turn 24 years of age next week.
A little history will be necessary to fill people in before moving to the current stressor/situation..
I grew up with a medical condition known as phimosis - a condition whereby the foreskin cannot be contracted. The effect of this was that I could either feel nothing or pain with partners, and never fully had sex whilst I had this condition.
I was circumcised at age 18 but still carried a sense of lack.. and turned to porn to find gratification of the sexual desires.
I had a couple of short experiences and relationships and found anxiety/mental burnout from the porn to be a real block to sexual fulfillment, especially precluding the getting and maintaining of an erection.
I have been with a woman older than myself for a few months more than a year now. Through her acceptance and patience, and through sage advice, I was able to overcome some of this anxiety and have full intercourse. This has been repeatable.
Often I use a herbal erection aid, but am capable of sex without it though often with a lot of sexual dysfunction.
The current situation is that this is my longest romantic/sexual relationship to date. This is the woman I had my 'first time' with. So what is especially distressing to note is that as of late I have found myself feeling less sexually attracted to her, even critical of her body (thighs, stomach too big, breasts too small).
She is a beautiful woman by all accounts.. I just find that the pornography has programmed the brain to quite an extent.
I have not watched porn in a good five months.
I find my mind looking at women on the street, in the workplace, etc., and feeling a rush of sexual chemistry I do not often feel with my partner. When I look at her by comparison I feel little sexual chemistry.
And this is triggering a lot of shame in me.
We have started being more open as of late, I have been meditating in her company which seems to keep things energetically more connected and authentic between us. But this issue is one I do not want to broach - for hurting her feelings and for exposing this 'ugly' part of myself.
When this was becoming an issue prior to restarting meditation, I just put it out of my head, took a herbal v and went for it.
Since restarting meditation, the anxieties are more noticable. Kissing I feel very little arousal with, even her performing oral sex the anxious mind is noisy but the sensation pleasurable enough to most times, not all, snap me out of it and into arousal.
I seem to have lost that 'horny edge' that motivates me into manifesting a sexual experience. This especially since rebeginning meditation practice.
This morning I woke up alone and ended up masturbating. The mind went through old porn clips and eventually settled on fantasising a sexual experience with my partner, which I suppose is some kind of positive.
But the arousal only really begins with fantasy/mental imaginings.
I will practice a form of sensate touch.. touching without agenda.. in hopes to resensitise myself and allow arousal to build without mental stimulation.. this is me taking responsibility for my own arousal.
This means when an old porn clip, fantasy etc. comes up, I let it go, relax, and continue with touch.
Things is, at the moment, I feel very little arousal from this.
Has anybody gone through this process to find that over time, arousal becomes something innate to touch, rather than dependent upon visual stimulation and fantasy? It would be really encouraging to hear so.
The other thing is that I feel guilt around her over this.
A question I wanted to ask others is - as one's meditation/detachment increases - what happens to one's sex drive? One's ability to become sexually aroused? Is there still responsiveness? How has this worked for people?
CarsonZi, I remember reading an old thread of yours and would be especially interested to hear your views on this.
I meditated this evening and during meditating began to sob. No tears but the physical/emotional pain very raw. Still feeling quite cold and fearful.
Please, guys, any support or advice available? Feeling very raw indeed.
Best to you all,
Jack |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2010 : 7:41:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Please, guys, any support or advice available? Feeling very raw indeed.
Best to you all,
Jack
Hey Jack,
No advice at the moment (other than: it's all always fine; only thinking can make it seem otherwise.  ) .... but I did just want to let you know, per your request for support:
Yep, we're here! For you, and with you.
Everyone has a custom-mix of personal issues, pain and conditioning that they bring to yogic sadhana.
These things are specifically what dissolve in yogic sadhana.
Often, possibly always, the dissolution involves bringing various circumstances, issues and bits of conditioning into glaring view, often causing them to seem much larger than they really are ... and again: thinking makes it (seem) so.
As sadhana opens us past ideas of ourself more and more, it's not so much the conditions or circumstances of our lives that change, but rather, all the memory-based, conditioned judgment and evaluation about it all.
That's why the simple three-word axiom Be Here Now says so much.
There are no issues now, without thinking.
In my experience, nothing has ever resolved via stress or concern. Being easy with it all, 99% of all "issues" dissipated (mostly thanks to the dissipation of the issu-ER ... the idea-me I thought I was .... ), and the other 1% resolved, or were addressed, or not, quite spontaneously.
Our stress about things doesn't mean something is wrong ... it means our stress is veiling what is ever right.
I hope this is useful; I may circle back with a bit more specific input later, but in the meantime, I just wanted to let you know ... we're here, we hear you, and we're here with you!
Thanks very much for your candid and interesting post!
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2010 : 10:45:41 PM
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Hi Jack
First, (((((((HUG)))))))
It's ok man. This is all part of "the play". It may seem like this is a really big issue, but really, this too shall pass. That may or may not make you feel better though, so I will try to be a little more specific. 
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I was circumcised at age 18 but still carried a sense of lack.. and turned to porn to find gratification of the sexual desires.
I can definitely relate. Not to the circumcision at 18 part (I was "clipped" as a baby) but to the "turning to porn to find gratification of sexual desires part." I think that is pretty normal for guys our age and living in the West (and maybe in other parts of the world too, I don't know). It is also pretty normal to have this affect our sex lives in negative ways. You are not alone.
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I had a couple of short experiences and relationships and found anxiety/mental burnout from the porn to be a real block to sexual fulfillment, especially precluding the getting and maintaining of an erection.
Is there actual physical difficulty getting/maintaining an erection after being circumcised or is the difficulty mostly mental?
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I have been with a woman older than myself for a few months more than a year now. Through her acceptance and patience, and through sage advice, I was able to overcome some of this anxiety and have full intercourse. This has been repeatable.
That's wonderful Jack. She sounds like she has really helped you to overcome some of this. Have you thanked her?
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
The current situation is that this is my longest romantic/sexual relationship to date. This is the woman I had my 'first time' with. So what is especially distressing to note is that as of late I have found myself feeling less sexually attracted to her, even critical of her body (thighs, stomach too big, breasts too small).
The "less sexually attracted" part can be pretty normal (IMO) after being with someone for a while. The amount of oxytocin that is being released in your body is likely at least a little bit less (if not significantly less) then it used to be when you first started dating her. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin .... That is normal human biochemistry. The "being critical" aspect however could probably be inquired into a little bit. This is likely more related to the "porn programming" then body chemistry. At least that is what my intuition is saying right now. Nothing to beat yourself up over, just something you could likely drop into Silence samyama style.
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
She is a beautiful woman by all accounts.. I just find that the pornography has programmed the brain to quite an extent.
It is good that you can recognize this. I'm sure there are lots of people out there who wouldn't. That's a good sign and something you can be proud of IMO, as it indicates that there is some Inner Silence happening and you are mindful of your thoughts and emotions. Two pats on the back for this one.
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I have not watched porn in a good five months.
Five pats on the back for this one. 
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I find my mind looking at women on the street, in the workplace, etc., and feeling a rush of sexual chemistry I do not often feel with my partner. When I look at her by comparison I feel little sexual chemistry.
Again, I would wager that this is the body/mind looking for that "oxytocin rush" that it was getting at the beginning of your relationship. Just be aware that any relationship built on this feeling of "sexual chemistry" (aka an oxytocin rush) is likely not going to last more the (I believe it is) 6 or 7 years....at that point (or some point around there) there is such a tolerance build up that it is physically impossible to get that "rush" from your partner anymore and there has to be something more to the relationship if it is going to last. A successful long term relationship has to have more to it then that rush of hormones that you get when you first start dating and having sex with someone. At least that is my experience and I believe that is somewhat backed up by science as well. I could be wrong though, going off of memory for this and, well, my memory is pretty patchy at best.
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
And this is triggering a lot of shame in me.
Oh, that oh so familiar shame.  Here is my suggestion. Next time you feel that "shame" arising (be watching for it) try to take some time to just sit with the feeling. Sit with it, watch it, feel it in the body, but don't judge it. Don't put a story to it. No "I feel shameful because...." stories. Just sit with the feeling, watch it, look to see if it is located anywhere specifically in the body, and then allow it to naturally dissipate, which it will if you don't attach a story or judgment to it. Try that a few times and see if you start to notice a difference in how often the feeling comes to the surface.
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
We have started being more open as of late, I have been meditating in her company which seems to keep things energetically more connected and authentic between us. But this issue is one I do not want to broach - for hurting her feelings and for exposing this 'ugly' part of myself.
Yes, I understand that for sure. I wouldn't bring this up with her yet. Try sitting with the feelings like I described above first. Just a suggestion.
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
When this was becoming an issue prior to restarting meditation, I just put it out of my head, took a herbal v and went for it.
Since restarting meditation, the anxieties are more noticable.
That's pretty normal. Meditation brings stuff to the surface so that we can deal with it. The best "dealing practice" though (IMO) is to let it go into Silence. That and sitting with the feelings without judgment or attaching stories to them.
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I seem to have lost that 'horny edge' that motivates me into manifesting a sexual experience. This especially since rebeginning meditation practice.
I wouldn't necessarily associate this happening with meditation. It could be, but it could also just be timing. The lessening of the hormonal releases due to being with her for some time is more likely the cause (IMO) then meditation is.
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
This morning I woke up alone and ended up masturbating. The mind went through old porn clips and eventually settled on fantasising a sexual experience with my partner, which I suppose is some kind of positive.
Yeah, I'd call that positive!
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
But the arousal only really begins with fantasy/mental imaginings.
I think that is normal. This is how it was for me too.... at least until the kundalini hit the second chakra, and then, well, lets just say things got a little outta hand for a while there. Then, the lingam had a "mind of it's own."
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I will practice a form of sensate touch.. touching without agenda.. in hopes to resensitise myself and allow arousal to build without mental stimulation.. this is me taking responsibility for my own arousal.
Can't hurt to try! Don't know that it will work, but it is worth a try right? Just don't get attached to the idea that this approach will be a magic bullet cure-all. The solution is likely going to be a combination of things and it will likely be pretty personal what will work.
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
This means when an old porn clip, fantasy etc. comes up, I let it go, relax, and continue with touch. Things is, at the moment, I feel very little arousal from this.
Will be interested to hear how this goes over the long term....keep us posted.
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Has anybody gone through this process to find that over time, arousal becomes something innate to touch, rather than dependent upon visual stimulation and fantasy? It would be really encouraging to hear so.
My experience is that arousal will take on a new form. It will happen due to visual stimulation/fantasy still, but it can also come from within. What causes stimulation seems to become subtler and subtler, as does the response to it. Kinda hard to explain, but eventually even just the thought/mention of our lover will be enough to send us into inner arousal.
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
The other thing is that I feel guilt around her over this.
Again, I would recommend sitting with the guilt, same as with the shame.
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
A question I wanted to ask others is - as one's meditation/detachment increases - what happens to one's sex drive? One's ability to become sexually aroused? Is there still responsiveness? How has this worked for people?
Mine hasn't decreased considerably, but it has gone down a little as the kundalini worked it's way through some of the blockages in the sacral chakra. There is still plenty of sexual arousal though. I think it is going to be somewhat personal though. We are all different and our journey's will all be different as well. In my experience (which is still pretty limited), sexual arousal becomes increasingly "inward".... meaning there is less dependence on an external lover.
quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I meditated this evening and during meditating began to sob. No tears but the physical/emotional pain very raw. Still feeling quite cold and fearful.
Take it easy on yourself Brother. Yogani's words about this being a marathon not a sprint come to mind here. There is no need to rush around and try to find an immediate solution here. Just let Silence work it's magic. Continue to practice everyday, pacing yourself as necessary, and just try to relax and enjoy Life. We make an awfully big deal out of sex as human beings, but really, it's just one aspect of a much larger whole. The hyperfocusing on sex is natural, just try to see it as such.... a hyperfocusing. Try to relax the gaze, stay open to Life, and be easy with yourself. You (and all of us) are doing our best. There are no mistakes, there is only learning. And you are. So kudos to you.
I wish you the best Jack. Hope this was helpful in some way. I love you man.
(((((((HUG)))))))
Love!
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Dec 13 2010 : 11:32:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Is there actual physical difficulty getting/maintaining an erection after being circumcised or is the difficulty mostly mental?
I'd say mental.. though physically it can take me a while after one encounter to be able to get fully primed for another. lately since beginning chinese deer exercise I've experienced strong erections during sleep/morning wood.
I could do with more exercise.. but this difficulty is more mental.. built around lethargy, stress, anxiety and a desensitised brain..
quote:
That's wonderful Jack. She sounds like she has really helped you to overcome some of this. Have you thanked her?
Yes of course
quote:
The "less sexually attracted" part can be pretty normal (IMO) after being with someone for a while. The amount of oxytocin that is being released in your body is likely at least a little bit less (if not significantly less) then it used to be when you first started dating her. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin .... That is normal human biochemistry. The "being critical" aspect however could probably be inquired into a little bit. This is likely more related to the "porn programming" then body chemistry. At least that is what my intuition is saying right now. Nothing to beat yourself up over, just something you could likely drop into Silence samyama style.
Oxytocin and dopamine yes.. this is understandable.. unfortunately porn also really blows out the neurochemical-orgasm balance I believe.
Being critical.. you say drop into silence Samyama style.. Samyama isn't even a regular practice of mine though I do enjoy it occasionally.. could you give an example of this in this situation? Like.. pick a bodypart/image, and drop the image and accompanying criticism/aversion thought/feeling into silence?
quote:
Again, I would wager that this is the body/mind looking for that "oxytocin rush" that it was getting at the beginning of your relationship. Just be aware that any relationship built on this feeling of "sexual chemistry" (aka an oxytocin rush) is likely not going to last more the (I believe it is) 6 or 7 years....at that point (or some point around there) there is such a tolerance build up that it is physically impossible to get that "rush" from your partner anymore and there has to be something more to the relationship if it is going to last. A successful long term relationship has to have more to it then that rush of hormones that you get when you first start dating and having sex with someone. At least that is my experience and I believe that is somewhat backed up by science as well. I could be wrong though, going off of memory for this and, well, my memory is pretty patchy at best.
Ok, this makes sense. Interesting to note that guilt and shame are still present while reading this.. and a 6 to 7 years, hmm! I would probably want to move on from this relationship before then.
quote:
Oh, that oh so familiar shame. Here is my suggestion. Next time you feel that "shame" arising (be watching for it) try to take some time to just sit with the feeling. Sit with it, watch it, feel it in the body, but don't judge it. Don't put a story to it. No "I feel shameful because...." stories. Just sit with the feeling, watch it, look to see if it is located anywhere specifically in the body, and then allow it to naturally dissipate, which it will if you don't attach a story or judgment to it. Try that a few times and see if you start to notice a difference in how often the feeling comes to the surface.
I can try this, however is this risky without much Inner Silence?? The intention here is to explore and open rather than get rid, yes?
quote:
Yes, I understand that for sure. I wouldn't bring this up with her yet. Try sitting with the feelings like I described above first. Just a suggestion.
I will try this, though part of me wants to burst out and tell her all.. 
quote:
That's pretty normal. Meditation brings stuff to the surface so that we can deal with it. The best "dealing practice" though (IMO) is to let it go into Silence. That and sitting with the feelings without judgment or attaching stories to them.
So kind of.. not "feeding" the issue whatsoever with any critical thinking..?
quote:
I wouldn't necessarily associate this happening with meditation. It could be, but it could also just be timing. The lessening of the hormonal releases due to being with her for some time is more likely the cause (IMO) then meditation is.
And she is not taking great care of herself at the moment.. I feel harsh to say that 
She is an older woman, also. Sometimes a younger woman will smile at me or give me some kind of look and it's like they are easier to dominate or something, its kind of a turnon
quote:
My experience is that arousal will take on a new form. It will happen due to visual stimulation/fantasy still, but it can also come from within. What causes stimulation seems to become subtler and subtler, as does the response to it. Kinda hard to explain, but eventually even just the thought/mention of our lover will be enough to send us into inner arousal.
I hope so!
quote:
Take it easy on yourself Brother. Yogani's words about this being a marathon not a sprint come to mind here. There is no need to rush around and try to find an immediate solution here. Just let Silence work it's magic. Continue to practice everyday, pacing yourself as necessary, and just try to relax and enjoy Life. We make an awfully big deal out of sex as human beings, but really, it's just one aspect of a much larger whole. The hyperfocusing on sex is natural, just try to see it as such.... a hyperfocusing. Try to relax the gaze, stay open to Life, and be easy with yourself. You (and all of us) are doing our best. There are no mistakes, there is only learning. And you are. So kudos to you.
I wish you the best Jack. Hope this was helpful in some way. I love you man.
(((((((HUG)))))))
Love!
Thanks Carson.. trying to relax my gaze here.. Love back atcha!
Thank you, too, Kirtanman, your post gives me faith in the practice. Going to sit now and dissolve :)
Jack
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2010 : 3:40:04 PM
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Hi Jack,
Sounds pretty normal.
Whereas my life evolves from doing toward more witnessing, sex life seemed to go from watching/dreaming toward more doing ;-) first, and then to the witnessing (when not in bed, I try to avoid having my mind there, and when in bed, I try to avoid having my mind somewhere else). Both in bed and in everyday life, it's helpful to think "what can I do", more than "what can I get".
Also, when keeping on for a few hrs. without a releasing org, the degree of her and/or my arousal is more likely to fluctuate than before ( = keeping on for a few seconds ;-) - so whenewer body/mind/erection get faint after half a day or so, no point IMO. in labeling it an erection prob.
I agree that most of the glow in a couple should come from the woman, but on the other hand, most of happiness comes from within; that's not to say one shall torture oneself into a dysfunctional relationship, but it's good to take both "mosts" into account.
All best, hatha.
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Edited by - HathaTeacher on Dec 16 2010 3:49:07 PM |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2010 : 5:25:40 PM
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Two consecutive nights of half-arsed sexual attempts and failed erections later..
This has become a big problem in the relationship now.
We've had a couple of intense discussions, borderline arguments now.
I have love but not much lust.
She even asked me if I was gay.
Pretty sure I'm not but it was enough to give me a fright. Made me think of a couple times I felt intrigued seeing guys' lingams in the shower room.
Laid it out black and white, saying if I'd ever fantasised about that or found the thoughts arousing, I was gay, and if not, I wasn't.
Told her I'd never had arousal-thoughts around it.. but perhaps once or twice I have.. that does't make me gay though I'd think.
Lots of anger coming from her.
I said I still want a loving relationship with her, that I have been less lusty as of late and that I don't feel quite as much sexual chemistry with her. She felt hurt and angry.
Don't know how this is solvable.
Its strange. I cried tears infront of her today, feeling how precious she is to me. Yet ten minutes later I'm looking forward to her leaving the house for work.
Freaking out here.. gotta dissolve in silence.
HELP
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2010 : 8:14:38 PM
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(((((((HUG)))))))
This is all necessary Jack. Life is giving itself an opportunity to learn and grow. Try to relax and accept what is happening. I have a feeling that the more you constrict around what is happening, the more difficult it will become. Relax, stay open, and remember to breathe deep.
Love you man. This too shall pass.
Love!
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2010 : 06:30:08 AM
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Also, remember there's no shortage of the female in this world. Shakti has a couple of billions human manifestations. Through one of them, you adore all of them. Opening the heart to her is opening the heart to Shakti, penetrating her and intermingling with her is intermingling with the world.
With this in mind, whether it'll be your current GF or a new one sure isn't the same, but, either way, I bet it won't kill your inner male.
More important IMO is to prevent depolarization; hence, its good to spend some time on reflection, solitude, and your own "traditional-man" projects, to keep your male side fit. |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2010 : 07:07:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Ok, this makes sense. Interesting to note that guilt and shame are still present while reading this.. and a 6 to 7 years, hmm! I would probably want to move on from this relationship before then.
Maybe it's just me but I find such thinking disturbing. How can you be with someone when you already know for sure you would like to leave? Have you told her that?  |
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