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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 01 2010 : 02:00:55 AM
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I was thinking a bit about prana today. Not the mystical primordial type of prana, but rather the regular prana we can "feel" and "touch".
The prana that we can feel in waves or flows or whatever through the body. The prana that fills us up and blooms in meditation.
What is this exactly?
It seems to have different qualities.
I've never seen a satisfactory explanation for this.
It feels a lot like magnetism sometimes, especially in the hands where it can become so powerful that it supersedes the normal sense of touch.
There is the flow in the central channel, but that too, is different in quality.
Prana fills the ether.
So what can we do with prana? What is it exactly? And how come so few people can feel it at all? Please share your understanding. 
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2010 : 09:27:06 AM
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| There really aren't any satisfactory explanations. I suppose you could draw a comparison between prana and electromagnetic radiation. Depending on the frequency of the wavelength, the energy manifests as different "kinds" of waves; microwave, visible light, gamma-rays, etc. Each kind of wave has different properties and practical applications, but fundamentally there is no real difference between them. Even the division of the wavelengths into different "categories" is arbitrary. It's like trying to define the color blue as a precise mixture of x amount of green molecules and y amount of yellow molecules. It would be a meaningless definition, because there is a wide range of mixtures that can still be identified as being blue, before it becomes "too green" or "too yellow". Everything is like that..a continuous gradient that can be differentiated from it's self only in the most arbitrary ways possible. |
Edited by - Clear White Light on Nov 01 2010 09:59:58 AM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2010 : 4:31:43 PM
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I see your point clear,
but if that truly is the case, then nothing could be defined or categorized and the advent of the intellect would have no purpose.
I definitely agree that it is a challenge yet to be overcome, however.
To refine my question further, consider that prana is recognized in both Indian and Chinese medicine. However, we can see that these early attempts at rational understanding of prana are hardly concrete. In fact, they are generally pretty abstract, relying on a metaphor and mysticism.
We now have an elementary understanding of endogenous and exogenous chemicals and their effects on the body and mind. Of course, there is still a long way to go with this science.
As a comparison of this discipline to prana, understand that the explanation of molecules and receptors as factors in the body/mind would have been incomprehensible just 300 years ago.
So here we have this subtle energy rushing around in the body. It takes on different qualities in its different expressions. Now, the really interesting thing is that prana, as it exists in the ether, is actually much more solid and tangible then a chair or a table. And yet the vast majority of the human population could not imagine that this thing even exists!
Certainly, we can come up with a better answer then: It's impossible to define it.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2010 : 4:38:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
but if that truly is the case, then nothing could be defined or categorized and the advent of the intellect would have no purpose.
The dropping of the need to define, catagorize and otherwise identify with the intellect is pure freedom dude. 
Someone at the retreat quoted someone (I don't remember who in either case) as saying something like, "with the dropping of the questions comes the dropping of the questioner."
My unsolicited advice would be to simply relax. There is no need to understand. Let go of the questions and just enjoy the experience of being alive.
Love!
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2010 : 9:52:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Let go of the questions and just enjoy the experience of being alive.
Love!
From my perspective having questions about the mysteries, meanings and vicissitudes of life enhance the life experience.
If we didn't question things we would still think the world is flat, that the earth is the center of the universe, that mullets are cool, etc...
Inquiring minds want to know!... |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2010 : 10:04:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
but if that truly is the case, then nothing could be defined or categorized and the advent of the intellect would have no purpose.
The dropping of the need to define, catagorize and otherwise identify with the intellect is pure freedom dude.
Someone at the retreat quoted someone (I don't remember who in either case) as saying something like, "with the dropping of the questions comes the dropping of the questioner."
My unsolicited advice would be to simply relax. There is no need to understand. Let go of the questions and just enjoy the experience of being alive.
Love!
Carson, no offense bro, but you could drop a bomb like that on any question.
Excuse me, do you know where I can find a decent hotel nearby?
There's no need to know. Let go of the need to find a hotel, just enjoy the ride.
You can't solve a math problem in unity consciousness (though you migh know the answer). It doesn't mean it's not worth doing. |
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2010 : 10:33:09 PM
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I hope my response didn't seem like I was trying to brush off your question, tonightsthenight. I can totally relate to your desire to know what things are. It's human nature after all. Knowledge evolves towards greater degrees of definition and differentiation, not less. This is very true. With these advances have also come tangible results that have benefited mankind, so I'm certainly not suggesting that nothing is to be gained by the pursuit of knowledge. But when it comes to the "meaning" of things..what they are at a fundamental level, even with all our advances in science, meaning can't be found. We can observe the relationship between one thing and another and record the effect it has. We can analyze and quantify endless amounts of data relating to the chemical composition of a thing and it's effect on the environment or biosphere, but that will never tell us what something IS; only what it does. The meaning of a thing is on the level of the mind interpreting the thing. What something does, however, is implicit in the beingness of the thing.
What does that mean? I don't know. My mind keeps falling into unresolvable paradoxes. This happens every time I try to define something. :) |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2010 : 12:37:53 AM
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I know what you mean Clear 
No, I didn't feel like you were brushing off the question. I agree with your point of view completely.
The paradox is that I also don't agree.
To clarify: On the one hand, we have infinite complexity. On the other, we have infinite simplicity. Heterogeneity and homogeneity coexisting! Yes, it's a paradox. 
So maybe, as you hint, we should first look at what it does, rather than at what it is.
For instance, we could ask why does prana seem to flow out of the hands and feet?
I mean, it's got some pretty interesting characteristics. One can command the flow up sushumna. Or one can can feel waves of prana flowing through the body. Prana responds to thoughts. It reacts to feelings. It moves according to our will, and yet it also moves automatically.
EDIT:
I also wanted to reiterate something that I alluded to in my reply to Clear, above.
We will eventually have a scientific understanding of prana just as we are beginning to have an understanding of biochemicals and nutrients and other things.
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Edited by - tonightsthenight on Nov 02 2010 12:43:26 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2010 : 12:38:01 AM
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Hi Machart, TTN, CWL and All
Let me ask you this....
What do you think would be different if you knew the answers to all your questions?
Love!
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2010 : 12:46:17 AM
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Hey Carson
Eventually someone is going to ask the question. It might as well be us.
Eventually we will understand prana, just as we understand a motor engine.
I don't know what else to say. You seem to be advocating the end of the intellect, and, by extension, all technology up to and including stone tools. |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2010 : 12:56:03 AM
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Hi CarsonZi!
I just don't like the bliss-babble concept of floating down stream thinking once you've found bliss via AYP, meditation,drugs , etc...there is nothing else to do...
The person who has lost the ability to question, discern and learn is at a dead end...
Why do salmon swim upstream?...I don't know ...but they do it.
I think there is a lot to learn from salmon...
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Edited by - machart on Nov 02 2010 01:04:23 AM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2010 : 02:52:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
What is this exactly?
The Universe gets energy from Prana.
But Prana gets energy from you.
Without you, there will be no Prana, no Universe.
You are its source. It flows from you.
Find the source.
And you will get all the answers you are looking for.
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swaha
Lebanon
88 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2010 : 04:17:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by machart
The person who has lost the ability to question, discern and learn is at a dead end...
is it true?
if i lose my ability to question and gather intellectual knowledge, am "i" at a dead end? who is this "i" ???
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2010 : 09:21:30 AM
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Namaste All
@TTN: "Eventually we will understand prana, just as we understand a motor engine."
Sure. But again, what difference does it make to try and understand prana (or anything)? Does this change anything? All it may do (from my perspective) is set the mind at ease for a moment. Soon there will be another question that makes the mind fluxuate and spin. Best (IMO) to just allow the mind to rest, let the question release into Silence, and find the answers to ALL questions rising from within. Searching for answers with the mind is futile IMO....it just keeps the mind spinning and spinning endlessly.
@Machart: "Why do salmon swim upstream?...I don't know ...but they do it. I think there is a lot to learn from salmon..."
Couldn't agree more. There is a lot we can learn from salmon. Like how to let go of a question. Do salmon know why they swim upstream? Nope. They just do it. We can live like this too. And that is freedom (IMO). Silence in action.
Love!
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BuddhiHermit
United Kingdom
84 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2010 : 09:57:17 AM
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The best description of Prana, that I have ever come across is in a book by Gopi Krishna. He writes about his Kundalini awakening, and describes the energy flows he sees and feels in vivid detail, although he remains at a loss as to what it is. I imagine it is probably what science calls the quantum field.
What anything really is remains a mystery, although we can label what we perceive. Sanskrit contains a great number of these kinds of labels, so our forebears were as interested as we, and clearly had the vision to perceive deeply as well.
There is no doubt in my mind that this process of gathering information is useful - not least in that it facilitates many approaches to enlightenment, including AYP. The process is also supported by the "Divine"/"Logos" in as much as it exists as a strong driver in all societies.
It is also true that asking these questions reinforces thinking, and structures of belief, all of which we seek to silence in our progress to enlightenment.
It is a long standing dilemma, but I suspect that enquiry into the mundane/energetic realms is actually not detrimental to the path. I suspect rather, that we must each carefully balance the processes we choose to live by, so as to arrive at a result that works for us. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2010 : 11:43:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
I was thinking a bit about prana today. Not the mystical primordial type of prana, but rather the regular prana we can "feel" and "touch".
The prana that we can feel in waves or flows or whatever through the body. The prana that fills us up and blooms in meditation.
What is this exactly?
It seems to have different qualities.
I've never seen a satisfactory explanation for this.
It feels a lot like magnetism sometimes, especially in the hands where it can become so powerful that it supersedes the normal sense of touch.
There is the flow in the central channel, but that too, is different in quality.
Prana fills the ether.
So what can we do with prana? What is it exactly? And how come so few people can feel it at all? Please share your understanding.
I used to think that prana was actually electromagnetic energy. I had a theory that the human being has a dual axis electromagnetic system, with one axis going up and out of the third eye, and the other going up through the crown. Then the energy would circle round coming back down around the body and coming back up again.
This theory could be supported by some drawings of the pranic field showing at least part of this dynamic. :
http://tinyurl.com/22nej36
This theory was supported also by the fact that I saw how an electromagnetically charged human hair, will move on it's own when held in front of an activated ajna chakra. That's the sort of action you would expect if prana is actually electromagnetic energy.
Then some strange things started to happen to me, which undermined that theory. Prana began "bubbling up" through my body and out of my higher chakras, and would drip down like water around my head and neck. Not the sort of activity that characterizes an electromagnetic field. Then I had drops of prana coming out of my ajna chakra, falling down onto the bridge of my nose, and then splitting into two balls of energy which began revolving around each other. The two balls would then disolve into one ball which would be drawn back up into the ajna chakra!
So, basically we are dealing with something much more than electromagnetic energy. It is really something which science has not got a handle on at all yet. Prana is intelligent, responsive to feelings, to the breath and to consciousness, and it evolves the human being according to a pre-established pattern (a blueprint) which is held within it, much like human DNA.
Prana is also the "life-force" in that without it, the physical body can't survive. So it is really quite something.
Whether or not we need to know what it is, is another matter. Could be best to leave that to the scientists when they get round to it.
Christi
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2010 : 12:01:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Namaste All
@TTN: "Eventually we will understand prana, just as we understand a motor engine."
Sure. But again, what difference does it make to try and understand prana (or anything)? Does this change anything? All it may do (from my perspective) is set the mind at ease for a moment. Soon there will be another question that makes the mind fluxuate and spin. Best (IMO) to just allow the mind to rest, let the question release into Silence, and find the answers to ALL questions rising from within. Searching for answers with the mind is futile IMO....it just keeps the mind spinning and spinning endlessly.
@Machart: "Why do salmon swim upstream?...I don't know ...but they do it. I think there is a lot to learn from salmon..."
Couldn't agree more. There is a lot we can learn from salmon. Like how to let go of a question. Do salmon know why they swim upstream? Nope. They just do it. We can live like this too. And that is freedom (IMO). Silence in action.
Love!
Hey Carson
Please don't take any offense, but I think you misunderstand the silence in action. Liberation does not mean that we voluntarily lobotomize ourselves.
Silence in action is peace. It is understanding. It is compassion. It is real knowledge. We still use our brain. But the brain is our servant, and not the master. This is the key distinction.
It has nothing to do with one's mind "fluxuating" or spinning or however you have characterized it. There is no compulsive, dysfunctional reason that I have asked this question. It is simply a matter of interest to me, about something that I have been experiencing for a long time that I wish to know more about. It is more about bahkti then it is about compulsiveness.
My mind is at ease.
Oh, and the difference between the salmon and the person is that god gave people brains dude. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2010 : 12:25:29 PM
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Hey TTN
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Please don't take any offense, but I think you misunderstand the silence in action. Liberation does not mean that we voluntarily lobotomize ourselves.
No offense taken. You are (obviously) free to experience Life as you are, and to take action/non-action as you see/feel fit to. No worries. Question all that you feel desired to question.
About "Silence in Action"....... pretty sure I got a good handle on this actually.  Nowhere did I say (or indicate) that liberation means lobotomizing ourselves. Silence in Action just means (IME) that the motivation behind action is no longer coming from "the limited mind." The motivation behind action becomes Inner Silence. And usually when there is Silence in Action happening, there aren't a lot of questions going on. But that is just my experience, your milage may vary
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Silence in action is peace. It is understanding. It is compassion. It is real knowledge. We still use our brain. But the brain is our servant, and not the master. This is the key distinction.
No arguements there!
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
It has nothing to do with one's mind "fluxuating" or spinning or however you have characterized it.
Well, actually all of yoga is about ceasing the fluxuations of the mind. The second verse of the Yoga Sutras states: "yogah cittavrtti nirodhah" which translates to something like: ""The restraint of the fluxuations of mind-stuff is Yoga." Meaning, when the mind stops spinning/fluxating there is Unity.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
There is no compulsive, dysfunctional reason that I have asked this question.
Nor did I suggest that.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
It is simply a matter of interest to me, about something that I have been experiencing for a long time that I wish to know more about. It is more about bahkti then it is about compulsiveness.
Only you can know your motivations.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
My mind is at ease.
Awesome!
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Oh, and the difference between the salmon and the person is that god gave people brains dude.
Salmons got brains too dude
Love!
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2010 : 3:45:17 PM
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Hey Carson, I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree here ()
Some primates, besides humans, use tools. Like the salmon, these beings are doing their thing. But they are also using their intellect.
If humans didn't use our intellect, and we were instead content to just be in the silence, for the sake of the silence, then we wouldn't have computers, we wouldn't have yoga, and we wouldn't even be communicating, because, as you know, language is a form of technology.
How one could argue that these things are contrary to Life, I cannot fathom.
Essentially, I understand your argument to be that curiosity, and by corollary all motivation to inquiry, is inherently antithetical to our true nature. I guess that rules out yoga.
There is knowledge known as gnosis, and there is empirical knowledge known as science. I guess you'll just have to accept that some people get a thrill out of discovering its secrets.
The ego lives along with the Inner Light. They live together in harmony. The ego has it's own desires, this is true. As you say, it all depends on where the motivation is coming from. I can say from personal experience that my Inner Light wants the ego to pursue it's goals, with the caveat that those goals are in tune with the will of the Inner Light. The Inner Light cannot do everything on it's own. And that is natural. Why else would there be ego? Or mind?
Regardless, I didn't start this thread to get into an argument over whether or not the question I was asking was valid. This is a rare online community with some very special people. A place where we can help each other understand an experience in life that very, very few people can relate to. And with all due respect, I urge you to examine your motivation for instigating the argument in the first place.
I hope you don't feel I'm being harsh. I respect you and I respect your journey and I respect your opinion. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2010 : 3:51:32 PM
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Hey TTN
I don't feel you are being harsh, and I have no desire to argue (I didn't post with the hopes of starting one either). I am more then willing to let this conversation drift into Silence.
Best of luck to you.
Love!
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2010 : 4:02:41 PM
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To BuddhiHermit and Christi,
thank you for sharing your views. My own understanding is that there is an etheric dimension that exists everywhere that is beyond the regular four dimensions of space/time. And in this field there exists a plenitude of a type of energy that seems to be electromagnetic in nature. My hunch is that dark matter correlates with this energy in some way.
But just as you mentioned Christi, prana has many disparate qualities. An etheric dimension filled with pranic energy cannot account for the sweeping movements of denser prana that can be felt throughout the body. Nor could it account for the dripping fluid-like prana that you experienced, Christi.
On the question of the balance between being and doing, there is no question that to fulfill our destiny on this planet, we've got to use our intellect.
At this moment in time, we are radically altering the organizational institutions that govern collective humanity. This is a good thing. Until the day when everyone on this planet is maintaining unity consciousness, we will need "synthetic" organizational systems to govern society.
Experiencing bliss and inner silence does not mean that we won't need systems of governance, economics and culture. Perhaps one day we will self-organize as we transition to a form of collective consciousness. But until that day, we will use the tools we were born with to assist everyone in attaining peace, harmony and a profound love of all that is.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2010 : 09:08:48 AM
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quote:
But just as you mentioned Christi, prana has many disparate qualities. An etheric dimension filled with pranic energy cannot account for the sweeping movements of denser prana that can be felt throughout the body. Nor could it account for the dripping fluid-like prana that you experienced, Christi.
Hi TNTN,
I couldn't resist posting this from the Bible:
"Whoever believes in me, as the scriptures have said,
streams of living water will flow from within him. " [Jesus Christ]
[John 7:38]
quote:
My own understanding is that there is an etheric dimension that exists everywhere that is beyond the regular four dimensions of space/time.
I'm not sure that prana exists beyond space and time. After all, it takes up space (is dimensional) and it moves in time. That's my experience of it anyway. You can see it and feel it, so it is an object of the senses. But I agree, there seem to be denser and more refined varieties of it.
Christi |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2010 : 4:13:07 PM
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Hey Christi,
In regard to prana existing in another dimension, the etheric dimension, I mean that it exists on top of, or inside, the other four dimensions. Eg, it's not separate from space/time, it transcends it.
That is intentionally vague, because these concepts are pretty dang abstract!
I like your quote about the living water. There is no doubt that Jesus is talking about prana all the time in the Bible.
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2010 : 9:44:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi Machart, TTN, CWL and All
Let me ask you this....
What do you think would be different if you knew the answers to all your questions?
Love!
If it was the answer to "How can we cure cancer?", or some other terminal diseases, I think a lot would be different. People would have greater life expectancies, families could continue enjoying their loved ones for longer, etc. Perhaps it wouldn't make a "difference" from the standpoint of nonduality, but then, what really does? |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2010 : 11:26:21 PM
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Hi CWL
Yeah, I was more meaning what would be "ultimately different"......what would be different "inside." But, point taken.
Love!
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2010 : 11:54:56 PM
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| A good book to read about this is "The Field" by Lynn McTaggart |
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The Feeling of Prana
