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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 30 2010 : 10:11:07 PM
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Has anyone seen the golden ring/star without previous conditioning?
It seems like everyone was already familiar with the image of the ring/star before seeing it.
Could it be just a product of simple clairvoyance and the mind? |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Jun 30 2010 10:11:33 PM |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2010 : 10:31:38 PM
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| Not seen the golden ring star, but I have seen my arm like a lightsaver without any conditioning, and a couple other things |
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Kriyaban
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2010 : 11:27:22 PM
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yes i have seen it and i wasnt preconditioned to it as i had no thought of it, no context.
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Edited by - Kriyaban on Jul 01 2010 10:58:05 AM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2010 : 02:07:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
Has anyone seen the golden ring/star without previous conditioning?
Yes.
quote:
Could it be just a product of simple clairvoyance and the mind?
No. |
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2010 : 11:07:47 AM
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It could be a case of mental imagery or clairvoyance, if you will. The mind is capable of producing any image whatsoever, despite how holy or revered they may be to some. A person previously exposed to an image of, or even the very idea of "the star" could just as easily produce a mind's eye vision of that phenomena as any other.
I'm not attempting to validate or invalidate the existence of "the golden ring/the star" in any way. Just simply pointing out that just because someone experiences some sort of mental imagery, I don't think that necessarily proves the existence of it as some sort of objective phenomena. Then again, maybe there is something to it after all. I really don't know :)
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Edited by - Clear White Light on Jul 01 2010 11:50:43 AM |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2010 : 12:25:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
Not seen the golden ring star, but I have seen my arm like a lightsaver without any conditioning, and a couple other things
I can see you've still got that Star Wars VHS cassette. |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2010 : 12:28:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Clear White Light
It could be a case of mental imagery or clairvoyance, if you will. The mind is capable of producing any image whatsoever, despite how holy or revered they may be to some. A person previously exposed to an image of, or even the very idea of "the star" could just as easily produce a mind's eye vision of that phenomena as any other.
I'm not attempting to validate or invalidate the existence of "the golden ring/the star" in any way. Just simply pointing out that just because someone experiences some sort of mental imagery, I don't think that necessarily proves the existence of it as some sort of objective phenomena. Then again, maybe there is something to it after all. I really don't know :)
Exactly my feelings. Well said. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2010 : 12:38:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
quote:
Originally posted by Clear White Light
It could be a case of mental imagery or clairvoyance, if you will. The mind is capable of producing any image whatsoever, despite how holy or revered they may be to some. A person previously exposed to an image of, or even the very idea of "the star" could just as easily produce a mind's eye vision of that phenomena as any other.
I'm not attempting to validate or invalidate the existence of "the golden ring/the star" in any way. Just simply pointing out that just because someone experiences some sort of mental imagery, I don't think that necessarily proves the existence of it as some sort of objective phenomena. Then again, maybe there is something to it after all. I really don't know :)
Exactly my feelings. Well said.
I don't speak much about any scenery... but just one thing to add here...
I have imagined that star and the ring many times and thought I saw it ... but the day I really saw it ... there was no mistaking it for imagination... it is just AWESOME!!!! beyond anything that can be imagined... even if you have seen a gazillion images of it and imagined it in every possible way... the day you see the ring in your inner eyes organically... there is no mistaking it for imagination.
Till then you guys can speculate all you want and argue away on it being imagination or real...  |
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Kriyaban
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2010 : 2:05:11 PM
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| imagining one thing or "seeing" it is COMPLETELY different than actually having a darshan of what we are talking about. LOL there is no comparision. i am glad i wasnt preconditioned, but even if i were, there is such a difference b/w what the mind can come up with and what is actually viewed that it is EASILY understood that there is no mental imagining going on, not even on a subconscious level. it is once seen, understood by the person viewing it, that it is real, not anything your mind could even conceive of, thats why its so difficult to talk about. but shouldnt be talked about anyway. its your personal journey. people can try to speak of it,draw it or whatever, but never understand until one has actually viewed it. |
Edited by - Kriyaban on Jul 01 2010 2:10:23 PM |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2010 : 5:25:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Akasha
quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
Not seen the golden ring star, but I have seen my arm like a lightsaver without any conditioning, and a couple other things
I can see you've still got that Star Wars VHS cassette.
Never thought about that, maybe that was my pre conditioning. Thanks for pointing that out and maybe darth vader is my farther? I do have blonde hair and blue eyes like luke, so I guess he is my brother too. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2010 : 10:01:54 PM
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I just wanted to add my 2 cents to Shanti's and Kriyaban's comments.
If it's experienced as something even remotely like imagination, or like any other previous experience of any kind ... that's not it.
One of the reasons that we call such things "scenery" here at AYP, is to remind people that it's not about any form or energy, no matter how subtle or beautiful or staggering to the mind, when actually experienced.
The more impressive iterations of scenery, such as the star, are signposts at best, distractions at worst.
The Yoga Spandakarika warns against being caught up in any of these subtle forms, as does AYP.
Many people (quote unquote) have become enlightened without ever seeing the star/ring.
On the other hand, keep practicing, and you'll see it eventually. It seems that everyone does, if they engage in correct pranayama practice, and they keep at it consistently.
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Golden ring/star without previous conditioning?
