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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Hi Kirtanman, Christi, Manigma (light man) and everyone.
Basically I was asking a very simple question: How does one know when one is beyond the mind? What are the signposts?

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The personality will remain as long as you remain below mind. Beyond mind, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get identified with your personality.

The personality is based on ego. When the ego is uprooted completely, what remains is impossible to explain in words.

I repeat, it is simply impossible to return to your Personality when your ego is uprooted completely.

There will be no Christi.

All this yoga, meditation is being done for what? To become that and again return to the personality?

Impossible!!

"Lest any should say, How then is it that we continue to enjoy such unspeakable glory in a mortal body? Paul replies, this very fact is one of the most marvellous proofs of God's power, that an earthen vessel could bear such splendor and keep such a treasure" [Chrysostom, Homilies, 8.496, A]. The treasure or "the light of the knowledge of the glory of God." The fragile "earthen vessel" is the body, the "outward man" (2Co 4:16; compare 2Co 4:10), liable to afflictions and death. So the light in Gideon's pitchers, the type (Jud 7:16-20, 22). The ancients often kept their treasures in jars or vessels of earthenware. "There are earthen vessels which yet may be clean; whereas a golden vessel may be filthy" [Bengel].

that the excellency of the power,-that the power of the ministry (the Holy Spirit), in respect to its surpassing "excellency," exhibited in winning souls (1Co 2:4) and in sustaining us ministers, might be ascribed solely to God, we being weak as earthen vessels. God often allows the vessel to be chipped and broken, that the excellency of the treasure contained, and of the power which that treasure has, may be all His (2Co 4:10, 11; Joh 3:30).

may be of God . not of us-rather, as Greek, "may be God's (may be seen and be thankfully [2Co 4:15] acknowledged to belong to God), and not (to come) from us." The power not merely comes from God, but belongs to Him continually, and is to be ascribed to him.

http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/4-7.htm

Christi does go away. When you become him! (Beyond mind) You can not say I am Christi. Neither you can say:

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We come to know our true nature as infinite and eternal. The whole ocean, instead of a wave on it's surface.

Christi

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Words come from 'below mind' state, not 'beyond mind'.

But as long as you remain in the body. You can sure come 'below mind' and speak and try to express your 'beyond mind' state.

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Originally posted by Christi

Interestingly, that word nimitta that you keep using, in Sanskrit, actually means signposts (literally sign or characteristic).

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Of course I agree with Kirtanman, that there are technically no signposts (nimittas) to let you know when you are beyond the mind.

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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
I must admit, I am obsessed with nimittas (lights) because I'm seeing them quite often now.

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Originally posted by Christi
Hi TI,

Lights appear and disappear in the mind. What is beyond the mind is what sees the lights. Everything in the mind moves and changes, what is beyond the mind never moves, and never changes. It is the source of all lights.

Christi

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Originally posted by manigma
Method of gaining Siddhis (Psychic powers):
Janma (birth)
Some people are born with occult powers like clairvoyance etc. This is the result of having practiced yoga in some form in previous lives.
http://www.healthandyoga.com/html/r...s/ays148.asp

Obstacles to samadhi:
Bhraanti darshan (Wrong or Delusive perceptions)
This means taking a thing for what it is not. It is generally due to lack of intelligence and discrimination. A sadhak may, for example, begin to see lights and hear sounds of various kinds during his early practices. These things are very trivial and do not mean much and yet there are many sadhaks who get excited about these things and think they have made great progress. This incapacity to assess our supernormal experiences at their proper worth is basically due to immaturity of the Soul.
http://www.healthandyoga.com/html/r...s/ays145.asp

Removal of Vikshep (Distractions or obstacles)
http://www.healthandyoga.com/html/r...s/ays146.asp

In short.

You must persist in meditation until you come to a stage when you feel there is no meditation. When the purpose of meditation is gained it will drop off naturally. - Niargadatta

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Friday
LESSON 285
Divine Sight And Illumination

The sixth force center is ajna, or the third eye. Ajna chakra means "command center" and grants direct experience of the Divine, not through any knowledge passed on by others, which would be like the knowledge found in books. Magnetized to the cavernous plexus and to the pineal gland and located between the brows, the ajna chakra governs the superconscious faculties of divine sight within man. Its color is lavender. Of its two "petals" or facets one is the ability to look down, all the way down, to the seven talas, or states of mind, below the muladhara and the other is the ability to perceive the higher, spiritual states of consciousness, all the way up to the seven chakras above the sahasrara. Thus, ajna looks into both worlds: the odic astral world, or Antarloka, and the actinic spiritual world, or Sivaloka. It, therefore, is the connecting link, allowing the jnani to relate the highest consciousness to the lowest, in a unified vision. This center opens fully to the conscious use of man after many experiences of nirvikalpa samadhi, Self Realization, resulting in total transformation, have been attained, although visionary insights and, particularly, inner light experiences are possible earlier.

The composition of this chakra is so refined, being primarily of actinic force, that a conscious knowledge of the soul as a scintillating body of pure energy or white light is its constant manifestation. From here man peers deeply into the mind substance, seeing simultaneously into the past, the present and the future -- deeper into evolutionary phases of creation, preservation and destruction. He is able to travel consciously in his inner body, to enter any region of the mind without barrier and to reduce through his samyama, contemplation, all form to its constituent parts.

It is not recommended on the classical Hindu yoga path for one to sit and concentrate on this force center, as the psychic abilities of the pineal gland can be prematurely awakened over which control is not possible, creating an unnecessary karmic sidetrack for the aspirant. Visions are not to be sought. They themselves are merely illusions of a higher nature around which a spiritual ego can grow which only serves to inhibit the final step on the path, that of the Truth beyond all form, beyond the mind itself. Therefore, the pituitary gland, which controls the next and final center, should be awakened first. This master gland is located about an inch forward and upward of the left ear, near the center of the cranium. At that point one can inwardly focus awareness and see a clear white light. This light is the best point of concentration, for it will lead awareness within itself and to the ultimate goal without undue ramification.

The sahasrara, or crown chakra, is the "thousand spoked" wheel, also known as sahasradala padma, "thousand-petaled lotus." Actually, according to the ancient mystics, it has 1,008 aspects or attributes of the soul body. However, these personae are transparent -- a crystal clear white light, ever present, shining through the circumference of the golden body which is polarized here and which seems to build and grow after many experiences of sustained nirvikalpa samadhi, manifesting a total inner and outer transformation.

The crown center is the accumulation of all other force centers in the body, as well as the controlling or balancing aspect of all other sheaths or aspects of man. It is a world within a world within itself. When the yogi travels in high states of contemplation, when he is propelled into vast inner space, he is simply aware of this center in himself. In such deep states, even the experience of light would not necessarily occur, since light is only present when a residue of darkness is kept, or since light is the friction of pure actinic force meeting and penetrating the magnetic forces. In the sahasrara, the jnani dissolves even blissful visions of light and is immersed in pure space, pure awareness, pure being.

Once this pure state is stabilized, awareness itself dissolves and only the Self remains. This experience is described in many ways: as the death of the ego; as the awareness leaving the mind form through the "door of Brahman," the Brahmarandhra, at the top of the head; and as the inexplicable merger of the atman, or soul, with Siva, or God. From another perspective, it is the merger of the forces of the pituitary with the forces of the pineal. Great inner striving, great sadhana and tapas, first activate the pituitary gland -- a small, master gland found near the hypothalamus which regulates many human functions, including growth, sexuality and endocrine secretions. It is inwardly seen as a small white light and referred to as "the pearl of great price." When the pituitary is fully activated, it begins to stimulate the pineal gland, situated at the roof of the thalamic region of the brain and influencing maturation of consciousness expansion. The pineal is inwardly viewed as a beautiful blue sapphire. For man to attain his final, final, final realization, the forces of these two glands have to merge. Symbolically, this is the completion of the circle, the serpent devouring its own tail. For those who have attained this process, it can be observed quite closely through the faculty of divine sight.

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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
For those who have attained this process, it can be observed quite closely through the faculty of divine sight.

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Originally posted by Kirtanman
beyond the mind.

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Originally posted by alwayson2

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Originally posted by Kirtanman
beyond the mind.

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Distinguishing purity from mind is the hallmark of the highest definition of emptiness in buddhism....so this part is sort of close.

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