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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
 Posted - May 13 2010 : 12:22:56 PM
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It struck me today that there might be something beyond where I am now. It's hard to understand how that could be, but working on the principle that there is always something, I wondered if anyone was beyond this simple state I find myself in.
I do not have a name for how it is except to say I am the doer and the watcher. The things I see around me are no different from the things I have always seen, yet the whole story has totally altered. I am more fully engaged without effort (infact I seem to have some endless capacity to engage which was never the case as everything seemed to take enormous effort) and yet at the same time completely seperate. Things just happen now and it seems either they are connected to my thoughts or my thoughts are directly connected to events. I feel no fear, I am aware of sensations such as excitement and pain and the effect they have on my body.
Everything is bathed in and connected to 'it', the same underneath yet covered with an outer shell. I do not visually see this connection but it is as clear as if it was visible and I have no idea what 'it' is except for it's abundance and vital energy. It is the same thing that is behind whatever I am but is impermeable, solid, massive, timeless and beyond my comprehension. 'God' would be too smaller word. God is a man made concept to describe the indescribable. I know that I am that and everything else is 'that' and everything gives off this image of solidity a bit like the heat given off from a white hot casting. Although I am that, this form cannot touch 'that' or communicate with it.
That's as much as I can put into writing, perhaps that is enlightenment? whatever it is has no real name and descriptions I have read seem to hint at something like this but the perspective seems skewed. Whatever else I may be, my curiosity seems as strong as ever.
I cannot see how it might be possible to 'go beyond' (this is very sketchy and almost impossible to phrase as a question). If there are those 'beyond' then I suppose they know what I am asking otherwise you will probably just think I am well outside my brain box but blissfully  |
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wakeupneo
USA
171 Posts |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
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nisargajay
United Kingdom
26 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2010 : 04:53:09 AM
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that link really helped me to
nisargajay |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2010 : 05:27:12 AM
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As long as you have any doubt or confusion, know that you are not you yet.
Words and speeches come from the mind. I am beyond mind.
I am absolutely free. I am infinite.
And so are you. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2010 : 07:28:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
It struck me today that there might be something beyond where I am now. It's hard to understand how that could be, but working on the principle that there is always something, I wondered if anyone was beyond this simple state I find myself in.
I do not have a name for how it is except to say I am the doer and the watcher. The things I see around me are no different from the things I have always seen, yet the whole story has totally altered. I am more fully engaged without effort (infact I seem to have some endless capacity to engage which was never the case as everything seemed to take enormous effort) and yet at the same time completely seperate. Things just happen now and it seems either they are connected to my thoughts or my thoughts are directly connected to events. I feel no fear, I am aware of sensations such as excitement and pain and the effect they have on my body.
Everything is bathed in and connected to 'it', the same underneath yet covered with an outer shell. I do not visually see this connection but it is as clear as if it was visible and I have no idea what 'it' is except for it's abundance and vital energy. It is the same thing that is behind whatever I am but is impermeable, solid, massive, timeless and beyond my comprehension. 'God' would be too smaller word. God is a man made concept to describe the indescribable. I know that I am that and everything else is 'that' and everything gives off this image of solidity a bit like the heat given off from a white hot casting. Although I am that, this form cannot touch 'that' or communicate with it.
That's as much as I can put into writing, perhaps that is enlightenment? whatever it is has no real name and descriptions I have read seem to hint at something like this but the perspective seems skewed. Whatever else I may be, my curiosity seems as strong as ever.
I cannot see how it might be possible to 'go beyond' (this is very sketchy and almost impossible to phrase as a question). If there are those 'beyond' then I suppose they know what I am asking otherwise you will probably just think I am well outside my brain box but blissfully
Hi Karl,
You might also find these lessons by Yogani useful if you have not read them already:
Dissolving the witness in unity
A confirmation of unity
Practices for moving beyond the witness stage
Is ecstasy a prerequisite for enlightenment?
What is the end game in Yoga?
All the best,
Christi
Moderator note: Links fixed |
Edited by - Christi on May 14 2010 10:40:50 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2010 : 07:33:01 AM
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Hi Karl,
p.s.
Do you do the AYP practices and if so what is your practice routine? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2010 : 11:08:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Karl,
p.s.
Do you do the AYP practices and if so what is your practice routine?
Thank you all for your input.
Christi, why do you ask ? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2010 : 12:14:11 PM
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Hi karl,
quote:
Christi, why do you ask ?
Because different AYP practices are geared towards different stages in the evolution of consciousness. Samyama and Cosmic Samyama are especially useful when it comes to dissolving the witness in unity. As is self-inquiry practice. They can help enable us to answer the question: "Is there anything beyond this?" for ourselves, without having to rely on others.
Personally I have found that it is not possible to seperate the energetic purification side of awakening from the transformation of consciousness. They go hand-in-hand so to speak, and there are certain energetic practices in AYP which also work directly on the unity stage, especially those related to the crown chakra. It isn't always safe to take on these energetic practices though, even if the desire is there, which is why I asked if you are practicing AYP, and what your practice routine is.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on May 14 2010 12:41:44 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2010 : 12:43:23 PM
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Hi karl,
p.s.
I'm not beyond, I'm right here. |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2010 : 2:52:57 PM
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Hi Christi,
None of the links you've posted to the lessons work for me..
Note: This is a technical issue, to be taken literally.
:)
TI
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2010 : 10:43:59 PM
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Hi TI,
quote:
Hi Christi,
None of the links you've posted to the lessons work for me..
Note: This is a technical issue, to be taken literally.
Looks like one of the people who work tirelessly behind the scenes to keep this whole show on the road, zoomed in and fixed them.
Thanks for pointing it out. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2010 : 03:43:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi karl,
quote:
Christi, why do you ask ?
Because different AYP practices are geared towards different stages in the evolution of consciousness. Samyama and Cosmic Samyama are especially useful when it comes to dissolving the witness in unity. As is self-inquiry practice. They can help enable us to answer the question: "Is there anything beyond this?" for ourselves, without having to rely on others.
Personally I have found that it is not possible to seperate the energetic purification side of awakening from the transformation of consciousness. They go hand-in-hand so to speak, and there are certain energetic practices in AYP which also work directly on the unity stage, especially those related to the crown chakra. It isn't always safe to take on these energetic practices though, even if the desire is there, which is why I asked if you are practicing AYP, and what your practice routine is.
Christi
I stopped practises about 3 months ago. Prior to that 5 mins Pranayama/20 mins DM/Samyama for about 18 months morning and evening.
It's impossible to maintain any 'desire' because everything just 'is' and to simply accept the limitations of the illusion has become the norm. It's a bit like falling without trying to grab at things to slow the fall, to such an extent that I am no longer really aware if it's the 'I' that is falling or the scenery that is moving. The distinction is blurred to an extent they are one and the same, a timeless 'now' in which the apparent movement is unimportant but accepted.
I don't seek to extract myself from this illusion because it is what it is and will end soon enough of it's own accord anyway. This allows me to fully commit to things as they 'appear' to be, in the same sense as understanding that a fairground ride or a film is simply an experience. Things just happen and they are neither good or bad.
Nothing I have read has given any indication or signposting to anything beyond this present state that I am. That does not mean I should abandon curiosity either .
So, in conclusion. I am satisfied with the way things are, I accept the limitations and the illusion for what they are. I see no reason to swap one illusion for another as I neither accept or, reject the present one. It must have a purpose even if I cannot fathom what that is but I am completely open and still curious.
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2010 : 1:21:39 PM
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Hey Karl.
I think what you are feeling, that you are at a "stable" stage, is something that we all feel from time to time.
Generally, i have found that this means you will get your boat rocked in the near future! 
We often feel that we are in a state of "i've arrived" just when life is about to throw you a change-up.
My impression is that you may be about to experience a heightened awareness of new things you have to work on, especially as they relate to your ego and persona, which you seem to have forsaken somewhat. The ego and your persona are important tools in the world.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2010 : 4:51:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi karl,
quote:
Christi, why do you ask ?
Because different AYP practices are geared towards different stages in the evolution of consciousness. Samyama and Cosmic Samyama are especially useful when it comes to dissolving the witness in unity. As is self-inquiry practice. They can help enable us to answer the question: "Is there anything beyond this?" for ourselves, without having to rely on others.
Personally I have found that it is not possible to seperate the energetic purification side of awakening from the transformation of consciousness. They go hand-in-hand so to speak, and there are certain energetic practices in AYP which also work directly on the unity stage, especially those related to the crown chakra. It isn't always safe to take on these energetic practices though, even if the desire is there, which is why I asked if you are practicing AYP, and what your practice routine is.
Christi
I stopped practises about 3 months ago. Prior to that 5 mins Pranayama/20 mins DM/Samyama for about 18 months morning and evening.
It's impossible to maintain any 'desire' because everything just 'is' and to simply accept the limitations of the illusion has become the norm. It's a bit like falling without trying to grab at things to slow the fall, to such an extent that I am no longer really aware if it's the 'I' that is falling or the scenery that is moving. The distinction is blurred to an extent they are one and the same, a timeless 'now' in which the apparent movement is unimportant but accepted.
I don't seek to extract myself from this illusion because it is what it is and will end soon enough of it's own accord anyway. This allows me to fully commit to things as they 'appear' to be, in the same sense as understanding that a fairground ride or a film is simply an experience. Things just happen and they are neither good or bad.
Nothing I have read has given any indication or signposting to anything beyond this present state that I am. That does not mean I should abandon curiosity either .
So, in conclusion. I am satisfied with the way things are, I accept the limitations and the illusion for what they are. I see no reason to swap one illusion for another as I neither accept or, reject the present one. It must have a purpose even if I cannot fathom what that is but I am completely open and still curious.
Hi Karl,
Sounds like you are doing great. I am sure that when you feel the desire to move on to the next level you will take up practices again. There is no end to the enlightenment process!
The states you are describing sound very much like the stages of discrimination and dispassion which Yogani talks about in his book on self-inquiry. In the book he says that it is very tempting to give up our practices at this stage, and he warns against doing so (see page 36 of that book).
It sounds like you are already curious about what the next stage on the path could bring. This is the beginning of the desire which will take you there.
All the best.
Christi |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2010 : 04:18:25 AM
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The more we make the effort, the more we realize that the process is to be utterly effortless.
Effort = I Am
No Effort = I Amness (here, now)
And when we reach the effortless stage, all we can do is keep flowing. Because at that stage our knowledge, mind and consciousness become entirely useless. Something greater/higher... beyond our comprehension guides our flow.
Like Buddha said, you can use the boat to cross the river, but after that it has no use for you. But one has to make the effort first to row the boat. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2010 : 07:30:23 AM
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Hi Manigma
quote:
And when we reach the effortless stage, all we can do is keep flowing. Because at that stage our knowledge, mind and consciousness become entirely useless. Something greater/higher... beyond our comprehension guides our flow.
That is a beautiful description, thank you for that.
It is also the experience here that in a state of letting go.... our knowledge, mind and consciousness are still used by that effortless flow. Just as it always was, is and will be. It is just that with no resistance inside, the flow can flow unhindered.
It still uses both knowledge, mind and consciousness to express itself, so as such absolutely everything is rendered useful.
All things are made right by inner silence...... |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2010 : 07:57:05 AM
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PS
And to keep deepening in the letting go into inner silence through deep meditation and other relevant practices is beautiful and useful at all times......
It is never felt here that what is beyond...is beyond deep meditation. It IS deep meditation. It is also here.
We are one in depth - and so we are not flowing 100 % unhindered until everybody's resistance is let go off...
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2010 : 09:09:54 AM
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Knowledge, Mind, Consciousness, Inner Silence, Deep Meditation...
Mirrors.... just mirrors.
I am tired of seeing my reflection in them.
I will break them all. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2010 : 10:55:44 AM
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Hi Manigma
quote:
Knowledge, Mind, Consciousness, Inner Silence, Deep Meditation...
Mirrors.... just mirrors.
I am tired of seeing my reflection in them.
I will break them all.
Yes......that is very strong bhakti.....and that is very beautiful.
After all...... the reflection is no fault of the mirror. It just reflects.
Here it feels like ......in letting go...... no mirrors needs be broken, since inner silence unveils that there are none to begin with.
And yet here.....all those mirrors, all those reflections..... are a constant potential reminder of what we are in essence. Not through identifying with the reflection....or the mirror......but inquiring (letting go) again and again into that which sees it...which itself cannot be seen .......
As such the mirrors and reflections here are also love in action, because it is like constantly being given something to let go of. And letting go......is what dissolves the suffering.
It is unending here...the letting go......
It also seems unending at times...the tendency to grasp and hold onto, to wrap up, to limit, to frame.....
But the instant the letting go is the only option ....and there is a base of continuously rising inner silence....... all such tendencies can be let go of.....while they are still happening. That is the beauty of it.
This happening everywhere, but it happens faster through engaging in spiritual practices.
Thank you for sharing.
Peace be with you on your journey Manigma 
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2010 : 11:17:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
Knowledge, Mind, Consciousness, Inner Silence, Deep Meditation...
Mirrors.... just mirrors.
I am tired of seeing my reflection in them.
I will break them all.
I just read a similar Rumi quote...
"The truth was a mirror in the hands of God.
It fell, and broke into pieces.
Everybody took a piece of it,
and they looked at it
and thought they had the truth."
~Rumi
The more I let this quote go into silence, the more meaningful it gets.
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benucci
Germany
9 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2010 : 1:27:11 PM
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Its beautiful, that you dont know whats happening, this points to a very sensitive mind, but i dont know :)
These nonconceptual experiences shouldnt be analysed maybe, but I dont know, as it leads to confusing belief systems, which are in conflict with each other in the world. Is it that you recognized in this experience the stupidity of thought in itself and the whole personal story of you dropped with a silent mind and you saw the moment directly,without thinking?
I had something similar happening to me, in the word happening to me, it was a point when I gave up a search and suddenly the misery transformed into an undescribable inner silence and bliss in the body, all concepts dropped away and the mind was silent and events seemed to happened by itself without effort and in it was recognized, that the mind itself is the problem of suffering. There was also a deep compassion for everybody and a direct perception of suffering and loneliness in others and the urge to care for them.
There was also a physical transformation in my brain stem, which was felt and I moved with my head down on the floor but as an automatic response, all these days were like I was blind before and it was literarilly everything beautiful. For me after this happened I tried to know what happened and the teachers I resonate most with are Eckhart Tolle ( who lives this experience constantly I think) and Jiddu Krishnamurti ( who lives it aswell and destroys intellectual belief systems with love and care to lead people into a crisis, out of which comes a new beginning), but to be quiet honest Jiddu Krishnamurti is for me the most intelligent man alive and learning from him is a trip into the unknown, so I dont know is very symphatetic for me :)
All the best and not much suffering,
Ben |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2010 : 5:45:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Karl,
Sounds like you are doing great. I am sure that when you feel the desire to move on to the next level you will take up practices again. There is no end to the enlightenment process!
The states you are describing sound very much like the stages of discrimination and dispassion which Yogani talks about in his book on self-inquiry. In the book he says that it is very tempting to give up our practices at this stage, and he warns against doing so (see page 36 of that book).
It sounds like you are already curious about what the next stage on the path could bring. This is the beginning of the desire which will take you there.
All the best.
Christi
I re-read that part of the book and I think you are right. It's seems a sort of beautiful plateau of infinite dimension when compared to the roller coaster of the past 18 months that felt more like climbing a greased rope.
You were also right about the growing curiosity, at first it seemed to be just a small spark and now it is starting to grow hotter I have started my practises once more. My inner Guru must have decided to give me a bit of a rest before igniting the next stage of the rocket booster. |
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Is anyone here beyond ?
