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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
 Posted - May 10 2010 : 09:05:11 AM
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So is stage 4 sticking the tongue in either the left or right hole on each side of the septum?
Which hole? |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2010 : 3:44:53 PM
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| I beleive it is. One would use it for alternate nostril breathing |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2010 : 3:52:51 PM
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I have no idea how the tongue goes up in those holes!
I have been trying for hours.
I have enough length. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on May 10 2010 6:42:10 PM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 02:58:14 AM
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| It can take awhile. I got it but have to agree with Yogani that its really not very significant. What is important in kechari is to achieve comfort in stage 2-3 |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 10:19:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor
have to agree with Yogani that its really not very significant.
Actually Yogani says
"Entering stage 4 is as dramatic as entering stage 2, because the tissues in the nasal passages are extremely sensitive, and connecting with them in the way described takes the nervous system to yet a higher level. "
"Stage 4 provides extensive stimulation of the upper ends of the sushumna, ida, and pingala, and this has huge effects throughout the nervous system "
Yogani, are you out there to help me get into stage 4? |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 12:22:34 PM
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Hi Alwayson....
In order to get the tongue into the nostril holes you are going to have to make the tongue as "pointy" as you can at the tip and then turn the tongue on it's side. This is my experience anyways.
Love!
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 5:11:37 PM
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I can't even the find the entrance
Carson, there would be two entrances right? |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 5:16:10 PM
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Yes there is a hole for each nostril...one on either side of the septum. I thought you said above that you had enough length but couldn't figure out how to get the tongue into the hole....but now you are saying you can't find the entrance? I'm confused.
Love!
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 5:19:47 PM
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I have found the "trumpets" the term yogani uses in lesson 108.
But I cannot fit my tongue into the trumpets, let alone find the holes which I assume that are on the other side.
Hope that makes sense.
Also it is hard to make the tongue pointy up there.
I am going to study some anatomy drawings and figue this out. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on May 12 2010 5:23:31 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 5:23:12 PM
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When you get far enough up there you can't miss the nostril holes. I'm not totally sure what Yogani means by "trumpets"....there is a lot of stuff up there hence my topic on the "Biology of the Nasal Pharynx" here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=7693
Love!
P.S. there are a couple good anatomy drawings in a few links in the above linked topic. |
Edited by - CarsonZi on May 12 2010 5:25:42 PM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 6:17:14 PM
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Hi Alwayson:
Here is a sketch from the Asanas, Mudras and Bandhas book of the nasal pharynx, looking forward:
http://www.aypsite.org/images/kechari-pharynx.jpg
The eustachian tubes are the "trumpets" shown on the outer sides of the nasal passage openings.
I have nothing to add to the instructions on kechari stage 4 in Lesson 108, on rolling the tongue on its side toward the center, except to say it will only make sense once you have identified all the components with your tongue, which is a function of experience in stages 2 and 3.
quote:
...Everyone will be different in approaching it (stage 4). There is a trick to it. The nasal passages are tall and narrow and the tongue is narrow and wide, so the tongue can only go into the nasal passages by turning on its side. But which side? One way works better than the other. The tongue can naturally be turned with the top to the center by following the channel on top of the trumpet of each eustachian tube into its adjacent nasal passage. This naturally turns the top of the tongue to the center and allows it to slide up the side of the septum into the nasal passage. Turning the tongue inward to the center is the way up into the passages...
See the lesson for more details.
You are making a big deal out of kechari, trying to do in a few months what may take a yogi or yogini decades to do as a part of a comprehensive approach to yoga. If you make in into kechari stage 4 soon, you will find it to be only as useful as the rest of your daily practices have facilitated, especially deep meditation and spinal breathing pranayama. The same goes for kechari stages 3, 2 and 1. It is not about what stage of kechari we can reach. It is about how well integrated and effective our overall practice routine is. There are many who can make the entire journey with kechari stage 1, or even no systematic practice of kechari at all, other than the tongue going back from time to time automatically.
Deep meditation and spinal breathing pranayama are essential prerequisites for the systematic practice of kechari stage 4, as is a suitable background in previous stages of kechari.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 6:32:05 PM
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| Thanks Yogani! |
Edited by - alwayson2 on May 15 2010 7:15:38 PM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 7:24:00 PM
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Hi Alwayson:
It should be added that entering kechari stage 4 is going to be premature if "secret spot" sensitivity (on the back edge of the septum) is not being experienced in stages 2 and 3. This is a function of the rise of ecstatic conductivity, which, again, is a function of our overall routine of practices. It all fits together that way. Honestly, the secret spot is a far easier, more satisfying, and stable place to be for ongoing cultivation of ecstatic conductivity. It is done in kechari stage 2 or 3. The secret spot can also be accessed indirectly in stage 1, through the roof of the mouth.
Jumping to stage 4 before secret spot sensitivity occurs won't harm anything, but it will not be very useful either, until these previous steps of purification and opening have occurred.
The guru is in you.
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 9:43:51 PM
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Oh yes,
I do practice "secret spot" throughout the day.
I also practice "secret spot" with YMK in the morning. |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2010 : 7:11:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
The tongue can naturally be turned with the top to the center by following the channel on top of the trumpet of each eustachian tube into its adjacent nasal passage. This naturally turns the top of the tongue to the center and allows it to slide up the side of the septum into the nasal passage.
Ok rereading this, I FINALLY get it.
It is amazing the tongue can go past the nasal conchae.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_concha |
Edited by - alwayson2 on May 15 2010 7:23:49 PM |
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kechari mudra stage 4
