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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
 Posted - May 03 2010 : 08:56:21 AM
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Hello everyone :)
I have a question regarding meditation.
First, I'll start by explaining that i have been meditating for several years, and that I have never practiced any "official" form of meditation. I've only done what has felt natural at the time. I either sit in (what i now know as) siddhana, or lay in savasana (corpse pose). Meditation simply came natural to me immediately after K awakening, and it has had an immeasurable impact on my life.
I have just found AYP, and i have discovered that there is a ton of great information and great people here! As i read through the information, however, i find a lot of words that i may have seen around but that i don't really understand. When I have researched the meaning of some of these terms, i find that, hey, i totally get it, i've been there and I completely understand it.
So in that spirit, my question is about meditation, samahdi, and generally the higher levels of consciousness pertaining to those things.
I generally need a longer amount of time in meditation to reach the "higher levels". Normally, I will feel an inflow of energy coming from below, and later an inflow coming from above. After this, I sometimes (but not always) enter ever greater levels of consciousness, culminating in a feeling of not-being-attached to my body, except that i can feel energy all over, as if i am swimming (floating?) in a raging (but gentle) storm of loving electricity or something. This is accompanied by a perception of an infinite space, and lots of bliss obviously. Actually, insane amounts of bliss.
I don't know how well i've described this, and i would be happy to elaborate further. I am curious what you would call this state... i have researched Eastern spirituality regarding these things, but as i've said, i'm quite new to a lot of this technical information, and it really goes over my head until i have that "aha" moment.
Is anybody willing to help me out here with their knowledge and/or opinion?
Thankyou and peace
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2010 : 10:37:44 AM
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Hello.
You came to the right place. It's great that you have come to your experience and 'level' without the need to unlearn so much that is unnecessary. Now having come to that you should not start adding mud to your clear view. Only enough, and no more is necessary to keep you on the correct path (your own path). If there is some great cosmic mystery and hidden knowledge you need it will come to you. Anything else is just for fun. I suggest studying the main lessons available here: http://aypsite.org/MainDirectory.html
The info here is great and not compromised with dubious complexity found elsewhere. Thus, you don't have to have your fingers in certain positions while your feet are pressing against your forehead and reciting a hymn to the Spaghetti monster. If you take it slow and safe the meditation and SBP will help your growth not hinder it.
--- jo-self
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Edited by - Jo-self on May 03 2010 10:42:45 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2010 : 11:46:26 AM
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Hi tonightsthenight 
First, let me say that it sounds like things are progressing very nicely for you, and that I am thankful for your presence here at the forum.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
I am curious what you would call this state...
I will answer this question with a question, hopefully you won't find this too annoying....
My question(s) to you is this: "Why exactly do you feel the need to know what this state is called? What difference do you think it will make in your practices/state/progress if you know the answer to your question?"
My suggestion to you would be this: allow this question to dissolve in Silence. Knowing answers to questions like this in general do not push us forward in our spiritual progression....if anything, they hold us back. In my experience, trying to define "where we are at" keeps us where we are. Let go of trying to know where you are (what the state you are finding yourself in is called) and just keep progressing. Perhaps this quote from Yogani will help make what I am trying to say a little clearer:
"Over time, we come to recognize the telltale experiences as mileposts on the way to enlightenment. There will be many more sub-mileposts discussed as we get into additional advanced yoga practices. The mileposts are useful to keep us going, to keep us inspired and regular in our daily practices. The mileposts are not so useful for proclaiming, "Today I am here along the road to enlightenment." Indeed, we may well be, but it will only be significant when we have gone past there and our experience has become permanent and unnoticed. When the experience becomes natural and normal it becomes real. It is life as we are meant to live it. The mileposts will be dissolved in the journey. Enlightenment, ultimately, is not so much about the mileposts. It is about enjoying becoming that which we always were."
(Taken from this lesson here: http://www.aypsite.org/35.html )
Hope this helps and thanks again for your wonderful presence here.
Love!
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2010 : 2:59:33 PM
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Thank you for the great responses!
Jo-Self:
I agree, it is refreshing to find this very *simple* resource for yoga. There's no jargon, no technical analysis, no bs, its brilliant. And i'm definitely in accord with you that staying simple is the way to go. I plan on exploring the resources of the site further.
CarsonZi:
I'm not annoyed at all 
To answer your question: the reason why i would like to know more is simple. I like to know more. I'm a curious guy, i like words, languages, information et cetera. While i am certainly in agreement with you that sometimes all that trivia clogs up the brain and restricts progress, i'm just that type of person who craves information. It helps me understand the big picture.
Its not a comparison in the sense of a competition, or even to judge my own "level". I just want to know, is this some recognized thing in yoga? I mean, there are many different levels one can get to in meditation, i know this from experience. But this one is my favorite, and it has been from the start. I've always associated this state, for some reason, with the quote from the Israelites in the bible about the "Land of Milk and Honey". Weird, i know.
Anyways, this "state" is not so much a milepost, as it is something that has been with me from the start.
I hope that explains my motivations for you. I realize that the true thing is the authentic experience, and not words on paper. But interestingly enough, if i first have the experience, and then read more about the same thing from others, it really opens up an intellectual component too, which i totally dig on.
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2010 : 4:51:01 PM
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Hi CarsonZi,
I just reread your post, and i should clarify my response (sorry i am *extremely* tired):
Regarding your quote of Yogani's (great quote btw), in this matter at least, these experiences do mostly go unnoticed... but my interest in "old" things has been rekindled by coming to the AYP. I feel like i will be able to get a new perspective on some of the past experiences i have had, which helps me to better define my present.
And regarding your initial question, part B, "what do i think i'll get out of it"... well, i really think i'll gain new perspective and insight on the road I've already traveled.
Man, maybe you can empathize with just how crazy and confusing this mystical path can be, especially when it takes you by surprise, grabs you by the balls and turns everything you know about yourself and the world upside down. Its great fun, but can leave you disoriented because things happen so quickly and you are learning on the go. Hey man, i've never had a teacher, never had a reliable source for information, never had much in the way of anything except that divine presence which i strive to hear but don't always hear perfectly.
So in the end, i think answering this question and questions like it will help me to understand my present situation a little more clearly and from a little different perspective, and sometimes that makes all the difference in the world. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2010 : 5:16:37 PM
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Hi tonightsthenight
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
I just reread your post, and i should clarify my response (sorry i am *extremely* tired):
No worries Dude! 's all good.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Regarding your quote of Yogani's (great quote btw), in this matter at least, these experiences do mostly go unnoticed... but my interest in "old" things has been rekindled by coming to the AYP. I feel like i will be able to get a new perspective on some of the past experiences i have had, which helps me to better define my present.
Ok. I understand where you are coming from. 
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
And regarding your initial question, part B, "what do i think i'll get out of it"... well, i really think i'll gain new perspective and insight on the road I've already traveled.
Again, gotcha.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Man, maybe you can empathize with just how crazy and confusing this mystical path can be, especially when it takes you by surprise, grabs you by the balls and turns everything you know about yourself and the world upside down.
Yup. I can certainly empathize. But this is where "surrender" comes in. Surrendering to the process speeds it up and makes it infinitely more enjoyable...in every aspect.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Its great fun, but can leave you disoriented because things happen so quickly and you are learning on the go.
Great fun indeed, but it doesn't have to be disorienting....the disorientation comes only when you are identified with something that you are not in reality.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Hey man, i've never had a teacher, never had a reliable source for information, never had much in the way of anything except that divine presence which i strive to hear but don't always hear perfectly.
AYP is certianly a blessing in the "reliable source for information" way!
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
So in the end, i think answering this question and questions like it will help me to understand my present situation a little more clearly and from a little different perspective, and sometimes that makes all the difference in the world.
In my experience it is in letting go of the need for answers that the "clear perspective" arises. Not in the striving to find answers. Let go of the need for answers, surrender to the process, stop trying to "define" everything that is happening and just enjoy becoming that which you always have been! Just one man's perspective 
Love!
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Edited by - CarsonZi on May 03 2010 5:18:24 PM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2010 : 5:25:38 PM
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Yogani mentioned something like this in another thread.... to the effect of: at the finish you want to sprint, but in yoga you just have to let go.
Those are probably some wise words.
Well, maybe its one of those times i should heed his and your advice.
How exactly does one let go at that level. I mean, say someone is 99% let go, but that last 1% is way harder to let go of than the first 99% ??
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2010 : 5:31:03 PM
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Are you familiar with (are you practicing) samyama?
Love!
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2010 : 5:50:00 PM
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no i am not familiar with samaya... i will research this
what am i missing? I mean, this is essentially my original question bc maybe i *do* know samaya and i just don't know it yet |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2010 : 11:28:35 PM
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Hello tonight,
Here's the lesson on samyama: Lesson 150
Samyama facilitates the "outpouring divine love" Yogani talks about in the lessons. When inner silence and ecstasy are cultivated and stable, they blend together and the result is divine qualities coming out through your actions.
It's an amazing practice! Hope this helps
With Love
cosmic |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2010 : 02:11:38 AM
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CarsonZi - Your words in response to this post talk directly to me. You are my inspiration for today ! Thank you.
Thank you tonightsthenight for being the enabler! |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2010 : 4:18:49 PM
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Hi tonightsthenight and All
The reason I asked if you were practicing samyama is because essentially this is a method one can use to "let go" (at least in my experience). There are other "reasons" to do samyama (to move stillness/silence outwards after cultivating it in Deep Meditation) but in my experience, samyama is also an effective process for letting go.
So, using the example of wanting to know what the specific state you are experiencing is called, in order to let that desire go, I would personally just touch the question/desire with the slightest amount of awareness (meaning pick up the intention of the thought, the moment right before the thought becomes fully formed in the mind) and then choose to release it. Don't allow the thought to fully form, just touch the intention of the thought with the awareness and release that thought/intention into Silence. This is best done after cultivating silence in DM, but it can also be used throughout the day as the thoughts arise. When you find yourself moving into thoughts about wanting to know what your meditative state is called, just choose not to engage these thoughts and allow yourself to release them into the Silence.
I would suggest that you take the time (if you haven't already) to read through the samyama lesson as it will explain the process much better then I ever could.
Love!
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2010 : 7:35:01 PM
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Thanks a ton CarsonZi,
Samyama sounds very intriguing, and in fact, upon your advice i have already tried it out.
I think Samyama might be a useful tool in my practice. However, regarding my original question and desire to know what a particular meditation state is termed, all i can say is that i dont really have a problem not knowing and its not exactly gnawing on my mind all day long
I guess for me, its just not that big of deal either way. I am only curious if others experience this state, because its interesting to talk about. Especially considering I am coming form a completely different background than a lot of people here.
I don't know, i really enjoy the information and conversations here at AYP, but sometimes I have the impression that posters here in general are a bit dogmatic with the party lines! Hehehe, not trying to be pushy, but its my impression.
What i mean is that it seems like a lot of forumers here get caught up in certain key words. For instance, i used the word "level" which has seemingly set off red flags for everyone responding, as if it were meant to denote a competition. I suppose i understand that, but i feel disappointed that i'm not given the benefit of the doubt.
My only intention is to learn more in order to improve my practice and my life. I don't know why that is something i should let go of.
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Parallax
USA
348 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2010 : 10:56:53 PM
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Hey tonightsthenight,
Sounds like you've had some great experiences...clearly whatever you are doing is working, which is great. I think what you may find with some of the responses at AYP is a tendency to try to keep things simple without getting caught up under the hood. Sounds like in AYP parlance you are experiencing increasing levels of ecstatic conductivity (all of the energy-type symptoms) and pure bliss consciousness (deeper levels of consciousness, losing body awareness, etc). This is exactly what AYP is designed to cultivate.
In some other traditions, there are attempts to lay out more specific "levels" of samadhi, but there was a conscious decision to avoid this type of classification in the AYP system for a few different reasons. First, everybody has their own unique "matrix of inner obstructions" which effects the types of experiences we may have during meditation, so no two unfoldments may necessarily occur in the same way. For instance I had much more intense activity at the crown to start, which has been working its way down the sushumna...others have experienced it from the root up...you seem to be experiencing it starting at the bottom and then coming in from the top. Which experience represents which level? I have no idea...but it is all good
Second, some of the experiences during meditation may come and go, so there is an emphasis on not attaching to closely to the experience, as it may be there one day (or one month or one year) and not there the next. Some have become overly focused on the experiences during meditation and trying to replicate a feeling/vision/energy flow they've had at the expense of keeping up with a consistent stable routine over the long term (which is what is actually driving the experiences).
So Yogani has laid out some broad milestones that are based around our quality of life outside of meditation, things like the dawn of the "witness" and increasing ecstatic conductivity, outpouring divine love...that we can use as guideposts for our progress along the way.
Researching, reading, thinking about this stuff is all worthwhile (I spend quite a bit of time on it myself ), but its also good to remember that much of the experience in our spiritual journey is beyond the intellect...
Don't know if this helps at all but just thought I'd throw it out there...
Much Love |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2010 : 02:59:51 AM
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Parralax, thanks so much for your reply (and i love your name!)
I really appreciate the AYP tendency to "not get caught up under the hood"... yet at the same time, i feel like damn, i finally found a place where there are other people experiencing similar things, and damn, i'd like to discuss it! (a very human tendency, i think)
I understand your point about everyone having a different experience. That's why we need to share! I get the simplicity, i get the temporal nature of experience. I know this is one of the reasons why AYP is special. But that's no reason not to discuss this stuff.
I don't agree that this stuff is beyond the intellect. One day we will understand spirituality intellectually, just as today we understand newtonian physics (at least we understand more than we did 500 years ago )
I don't really give a damn what my experiences mean to other people... they may be "great" or they may not. All i want is to figure out where to go from here. And part of that is understanding where i've been in the past. Socializing is natural. It gives reference, it gives perspective. Its important. I find it strange that other people here are so turned off by it.
Well, just my opinion!  I am happy for your interest and your desire to interact
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2010 : 11:20:06 AM
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Hi tonightsthenight
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Samyama sounds very intriguing, and in fact, upon your advice i have already tried it out.
Awesome. But remember, like everthing else, consistancy is the key. Practicing samyama daily, in combination with SBP and DM will be necessary to see lasting results.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
I think Samyama might be a useful tool in my practice. However, regarding my original question and desire to know what a particular meditation state is termed, all i can say is that i dont really have a problem not knowing and its not exactly gnawing on my mind all day long
I understand. Samyama is not necessarily just for letting go though. It is for moving Silence (cultivated in DM) outwards into manifestation. The "letting go" is more of a "side effect" then anything.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
I guess for me, its just not that big of deal either way.
Good....'cause there is no reason to allow yourself to suffer over not knowing the name of your specific state of samadhi.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
I am only curious if others experience this state, because its interesting to talk about. Especially considering I am coming form a completely different background than a lot of people here.
Yes, others here (and elsewhere) are experiencing the same state. And (obviously) we all have different "backgrounds". Personally, I come from a drug addicted (heroin, methamphetamine, methadone, ketamine and marijuana [mostly....I also had stints of addiction to several different hallucinogens]) fundamental Christian, touring musician, etc background. Each of our backgrounds will contribute to (as Parallax called it) our "unique matrix of inner obstructions", so no two "Life experiences" will be exactly the same (thank God!). Remember though, talk only goes so far....it is basically only useful in spurring us onward with our practices as the practices are what will create positive change, not talk.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
I don't know, i really enjoy the information and conversations here at AYP, but sometimes I have the impression that posters here in general are a bit dogmatic with the party lines! Hehehe, not trying to be pushy, but its my impression.
Hey, no worries.... we are each entitled to our own impression . And yeah, some of us may tow the AYP party line pretty hard at times, but this is usually just because our personal experience aligns with the party lines. This is how it is for me. When I first came to AYP I felt that discussion was the way to find answers.... after practicing AYP for some time I came to realize that ALL answers come from within. As they say, "talk is cheap."
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
What i mean is that it seems like a lot of forumers here get caught up in certain key words.
Sure. Most likely because Yogani has a way with using language to explain (as accurately as words can) the process we are all engaged in here at AYP (human spiritual transformation). Why try and reinvent the wheel?
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
For instance, i used the word "level" which has seemingly set off red flags for everyone responding, as if it were meant to denote a competition. I suppose i understand that, but i feel disappointed that i'm not given the benefit of the doubt.
All disappointment is due to having expectations. Expectations will ALWAYS lead to suffering. I don't believe anyone here has been "set off" by your use of the word "level"....I know I wasn't. What caused me to respond to you in the way, and saying what, I did, was that I feel I have been where you are before....looking outside myself (to language) for answers. Words can't answer your questions...they can only point the way to the answers which will always be found within yourself in Silence. Again, this may sound like yet another AYP party line, but IME this is Truth.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
My only intention is to learn more in order to improve my practice and my life. I don't know why that is something i should let go of.
Knowing the name of the state you find yourself in during meditation will not improve your practices nor your life. It will only serve to tell you where you are on the path (in this moment) and this usually causes stagnation in progress (unless you can let go of where you "think" you are). This is why I posted the quote from Yogani that I did. Trying to understand where one is on the path at any moment, causes one to hold onto where they are, which stops one from continuing on to another "milestone" in the next moment. Letting go of trying to know where you are allows you the freedom to continue on to the next "level."
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
I really appreciate the AYP tendency to "not get caught up under the hood"... yet at the same time, i feel like damn, i finally found a place where there are other people experiencing similar things, and damn, i'd like to discuss it! (a very human tendency, i think)
Oh yeah, definitely a human tendency....not necessarily a productive one though. Discussion has it's place in spiritual practice, but it isn't discussion that creates progress (in general). What creates progress is spiritual practice and surrender to the process. It's very hard to surrender to the process when one is caught up in believing "I am here on the road to enlightenment."
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
I understand your point about everyone having a different experience. That's why we need to share!
I get the simplicity, i get the temporal nature of experience. I know this is one of the reasons why AYP is special. But that's no reason not to discuss this stuff.[/
Comparison/analysis/judgement, these are all "mind-modifications"....and as Patanjali says right in the second verse of The Yoga Sutras; "Yoga (unification) is the ending of the modifications of the mind" (1.2).... choosing to entertain the modifications of the mind is not "yoga"....it does not lead to "unification." Engaging in activities such as what you are describing here (analysis [aka "discussion"] of our experiences) can lead to "analysis paralysis" (in the words of our AYP friend Kirtanman).
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
I don't agree that this stuff is beyond the intellect. One day we will understand spirituality intellectually, just as today we understand newtonian physics (at least we understand more than we did 500 years ago )
We may one day come to understand spirituality intellectually.... in fact quantum science is well on it's way to verifying what has been known as Truth to sages and mystics for thousands and thousands of years already, so it may even happen sooner then later.... but knowing Truth intellectually (in the mind) does not help one emobody Truth in the heart. That is what spiritual practice (and surrender to the process) does. If knowing Truth intellectually could bring one to enlightenment, well, then we would likely have a lot more enlightened quantum scientists running around!
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
I don't really give a damn what my experiences mean to other people... they may be "great" or they may not.
Experiences are experiences....none are "greater" then any other.... "Great" is just a label we attach to something.... yet another mind-modification.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
All i want is to figure out where to go from here.
Where to go from here is onward. Continue with your practices and learn to surrender to the process and your experiences will continue to evolve just as you do.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
And part of that is understanding where i've been in the past.
I don't necessarily agree with this statement (not that that matters one iota ). The past is the past, the future never comes. All that really exists is this moment right now. Focus on this moment and what you can do in this moment to further your spiritual evolution. BUT, that said, yes, it is good to learn from our "past" mistakes. But over-analyzing the past is just indulging limited mind/ego/conditioning. "You" aren't your past actions. "You" are blissful silent awareness.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Socializing is natural.
Indeed! And satsang is a vital part of what we are doing here at AYP. And this forum is that satsang.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
It gives reference, it gives perspective. Its important. I find it strange that other people here are so turned off by it.
I don't think anyone is "turned off" by the discussion of experiences, I just think that many of us here realize that this is of very limited value and we would rather spend our time discussing practice instead of experience.
Thanks for your honesty tonightsthenight. I hope you continue to bless the AYP community with your presence.
Love!
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Edited by - CarsonZi on May 05 2010 11:28:39 AM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2010 : 6:10:07 PM
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Hey CarsonZi,
Thanks for your genuine and very detailed response. I appreciate your willingness to give me such a complete explanation
After considering our conversation, i am confident that parts of the AYP process will be very helpful to me. My practice will only improve with my exposure to AYP. However, i think i may not be cut out for the AYP mindset. I guess i'm just too fiercely independent!
My primary focus at this point is to reconcile the inner and outer experiences. I believe that some of the practices here on AYP will help me to do just that, and its wonderful how resources often appear when you require them
However, my spiritual path has been facilitated by practices in various disciplines. I find that the intellect is a powerful companion in the search for truth, and indeed, i would not have made it this far without it. I cannot agree that our experiences have no real value, because their value lies in showing us the way. The divine is always sending us messages, and i've found that its very profitable to pay attention
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2010 : 6:19:33 PM
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Hi tonightsthnight
I believe you have misunderstood what I have said, at least partially. I was not meaning to say that "experiences have no real value". What I meant was that defining, analyzing and comparing our experiences are of limited value. There is nothing "wrong" with having and enjoying our experiences....it's just counter productive to get attached to/identify with them.
Hope that clarifies a little.
Love!
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Edited by - CarsonZi on May 05 2010 6:20:56 PM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2010 : 7:16:40 PM
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Hehehehe
Well there's bound to be some misinterpretation on the web....
But in this case, i just did not clarify my point very well. In my experience, analysing, defining and comparing *do* have value, because these exercises allow us to understand, to gain new perspectives, and to grow!
For example, say a person is in deep meditation.
This person suddenly "hears" a "spoken" word.
It doesn't matter what this word is for this example.
Say the person then looks up the word in a dictionary, and finds that its definition is consistent with his/her current goals.
Then the person performs more research on the etymology of the word, its relationships and its usages.
Suddenly, this person discovers that this simple word, coming out of the silence, leads him/her to new, beneficial practices or observances, contributing to his/her spiritual growth.
So in the end, it is this person's command of the mind's "modifications" that has indeed facilitated spiritual progression.
So in my mind, these "modifications" do indeed have value to the spiritual path.
In my experience, the universe speaks to us in the "silence" in AYP parlance. The closer one is to the silence, the more one can hear. But it sometimes requires our intellect, and its modifications, to discover exactly what it is that the universe is trying to tell us.
We don't need to debate this. You have your experience and i have mine, and that is fine. I only want to point out that, for me, these modifications do have a relevance to the spiritual path, and i believe that they are very important to the mystical journey. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2010 : 04:59:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Hehehehe
Well there's bound to be some misinterpretation on the web....
But in this case, i just did not clarify my point very well. In my experience, analysing, defining and comparing *do* have value, because these exercises allow us to understand, to gain new perspectives, and to grow!
For example, say a person is in deep meditation.
This person suddenly "hears" a "spoken" word.
It doesn't matter what this word is for this example.
Say the person then looks up the word in a dictionary, and finds that its definition is consistent with his/her current goals.
Then the person performs more research on the etymology of the word, its relationships and its usages.
Suddenly, this person discovers that this simple word, coming out of the silence, leads him/her to new, beneficial practices or observances, contributing to his/her spiritual growth.
So in the end, it is this person's command of the mind's "modifications" that has indeed facilitated spiritual progression.
So in my mind, these "modifications" do indeed have value to the spiritual path.
In my experience, the universe speaks to us in the "silence" in AYP parlance. The closer one is to the silence, the more one can hear. But it sometimes requires our intellect, and its modifications, to discover exactly what it is that the universe is trying to tell us.
We don't need to debate this. You have your experience and i have mine, and that is fine. I only want to point out that, for me, these modifications do have a relevance to the spiritual path, and i believe that they are very important to the mystical journey.
If the universe speaks, then it's also speaking to you through this forum. If you offer an opinion you invalidate your claim to 'listening' to the universe and therefore your own experiences are also invalid.
That is what you have written and it contains contradiction. You can either listen to all of it or listen to none of it. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2010 : 07:23:27 AM
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Hi Tonightsthenight,
quote:
I generally need a longer amount of time in meditation to reach the "higher levels". Normally, I will feel an inflow of energy coming from below, and later an inflow coming from above. After this, I sometimes (but not always) enter ever greater levels of consciousness, culminating in a feeling of not-being-attached to my body, except that i can feel energy all over, as if i am swimming (floating?) in a raging (but gentle) storm of loving electricity or something. This is accompanied by a perception of an infinite space, and lots of bliss obviously. Actually, insane amounts of bliss.
I don't know how well i've described this, and i would be happy to elaborate further. I am curious what you would call this state... i have researched Eastern spirituality regarding these things, but as i've said, i'm quite new to a lot of this technical information, and it really goes over my head until i have that "aha" moment.
If you want some labels to attach to the "happenings", then what you are describing is samadhi. The flow of energy from below is kundalini, the flow of energy from above is grace (sometimes referred to as the downward flowing kundalini). The body made up entirely of ecstatic energy is the pranamaya kosha. The body made up entirely of bliss is the anandamaya kosha.
The infinite expanse or ocean of darkness beyond all visible form, is the absolute, or unmanifest Brahman.
Hope that helps,
Christi |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2010 : 08:14:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
I am curious what you would call this state...
Is anybody willing to help me out here with their knowledge and/or opinion?
This can be called purification. You are being prepared. That's all.
Or if you wish to hear more... you are blessed... blah blah blah.
Or as Yogani ji would say... Good things are happening.
Just watch the process and share your future expereinces here on the forum if you wish.
This process will be as smooth and as natural as you can be.
Even if shifted aside, the algae do not lose time in covering the water again. Similarly, even if a wise man swerves from his allegiance to natural rhythm even for a little while, illusions cover him.
http://www.balbro.com/heart/beat5.htm |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2010 : 4:47:40 PM
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Hi Karl and Cristi,
Thank you for your responses
Cristi, thank you for your no nonsense post! So now if i were to read some of the Hindu scriptures i would actually know what the hell they're going on about!
Karl, I see your point. But then again, i don't agree. No kool-aid for me. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2010 : 5:32:03 PM
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Hi Manigma, thanks for your post :)
Christi,
I have question for you: If you and others on this forum know these things, then why is it that it is like pulling teeth to get an answer to a question?
As you know, Hindu scripture is very dense and distant... there is no way i'm going to be able to extract lots of meaningful information from those writings.
I am positive that my practice will progress due to the knowledge i am currently gaining. This thing that was such a mystery years ago, is becoming a science. It seems like a lot of AYPers would prefer it remain a myster!? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2010 : 4:31:59 PM
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Hi Tonightsthenight,
quote:
Christi,
I have question for you: If you and others on this forum know these things, then why is it that it is like pulling teeth to get an answer to a question?
Well...
there are some things that Yogani has deliberately left unspoken in the main lessons on this website. Quite a lot of things actually. I believe he has done that for some very good reasons. He refers to those things as being "under the hood" in the sense that if you are driving a car, you don't actually need to know how the engine works to be able to do everything you need to do.
So AYP includes everything you need to know to become enlightened, and leaves out everything else. Makes sense, no? One of the things that is left out is any discussion about different levels of samadhi. Other spiritual systems include this, and the Buddhists have made a fine art out of it, with no less than 8 different levels of samadhi described.
One of the problems with this is that samadhi isn't really something that can be divided up into levels (where does one level end and another begin?), and Buddhists spend hours arguing over different levels of samadhi when they could just be living in divine peace and carrying that out into the world.
So if people in this forum try to steer you away from excessive analysis of "states" of consciousness, then it could be for good reason. They have your best interests at heart. Having said that, it can be usefull to understand some of the concepts involved if you want to understand those Hindu texts or ancient yogic scriptures, so a balance has to be found somewhere.
If you are interested in understanding more about the levels of samadhi, I have been told that "The Path of Serenity and Insight: an Explanation of Buddhist Jhanas" is a good book on the subject.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...=oss_product
quote:
This thing that was such a mystery years ago, is becoming a science. It seems like a lot of AYPers would prefer it remain a myster!?
Actually I think AYP is at the cutting edge of bringing spirituality into the scientific age, whilst keeping enlightenment centre stage.
Christi
p.s. Yogani once said that the open teachings are in the main lessons and the secret teachings are all in the "Secrets of Wilder" novel. So if you are interested in the secret teachings of the deeper mystery... that's where to find them. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2010 : 5:00:23 PM
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Hi Tonightsthenight,
p.p.s.
Here is a quote from Yogani on why he doesn't find it usefull to discuss grades of samadhi:
quote:
I view the various symptoms being discussed here as manifestations of inner silence and its first child, pranic energy flow which is where the dramatic experiences come from. The manifestations can be called "grades of samadhi," but I think it is not important to be categorizing these, especially since they have no bearing on our practices themselves (AYP style, that is). Some teachers attempt to categorize levels of samadhi among their adherents and then assign different kinds of practices for each. I think this is a fruitless task -- not to mention that having "adherents" is not part of the new paradigm of knowledge transmission anyway. Last year I was chastised by a well-known guru for taking the view that categorizing levels of samadhi is not relevant, and for refusing to impose a "samadhi ranking system" on the AYP readers.
As you know, my point of view is that the relevance is in the practices themselves that will lead inevitably to all the rest, and we do not have to be measuring results except for the purpose of regulating our bhakti and practices for speed and comfort. In other words, we don't get hung up in the "scenery."
Having said all that, let me throw something into the samadhi discussion...[Yogani]
from:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic...._ID=667#2168
and also here:
quote:
Samadhi is the eighth limb of yoga and means "absorption in pure bliss consciousness," or "abiding in inner silence," "the witness," "stillness in action," etc., all which we talk about so much around here from an experiential perspective. Everyone who loses the mantra during deep meditation enters samadhi.
There are as many types and grades of samadhi as one might care to define, and it can get very technical in splitting hairs. It really depends on experience. Before then, it is mostly academic. [Yogani]
from:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=4029#34553
Christi |
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I need some help understanding meditation
