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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 07 2010 : 3:54:14 PM
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Hi all,
I want to ask about the nervous system from ayp perspective.
The matter is that i really have never had very clear what is it exactly...
Is it the physical nervous system or is it an astral/energetic/subtle thing?
I have always considered it as an astral thing,cz thats the way i feel it working and being purified...but...im not absolutely sure,cz theres also a physical nervus system and it creates confusion here.
The expresion nervous system was something absolutely new when i discovered this ayp site.Before i was used to hear mainly about chakras,ida,pingala and sushumna...but not nervous system.
Is there any picture in the web about it? i can imagine how it is,but would be useful to have a picture.
Could you help me to clarify this?
thanks. |
Edited by - miguel on Apr 07 2010 3:58:10 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 07 2010 : 4:19:23 PM
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Hi Miguel 
There is both a physical and a subtle nervous system. AYP practices work on both. If AYPractices only worked on the subtle nervous system (the "nadi network") then I would not have been able to get off of methadone without withdrawals as quickly as I did (using the AYPractices). If the practices only worked on the physical nervous system then we wouldn't be moving towards deeper and deeper levels of Silence in our daily lives. At least this is the way I see it.
Love!
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2010 : 12:23:38 AM
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Hi Miguel,
My understanding is as follows:
Just as the physiological neurobiology comprises the brain, the spinal cord, all the nerves throughout the gross body( Annamaya Koshaa) and the nerve plexuses, there is a psychic neurobiology, comprising the Sahasrara, the chakras, and the nadi system, which are all part of the Etheric body or Praanamaya Koshaa.
The former are visible to the surgeons naked eye when he cuts the body open, whereas the latter are visible only when the third eye opens.
There is a strong linkage between the two bodies, as none of our feelings, sensations or emotions can get communicated to the brain unless it first goes through the Psychic Nervous System.
All spiritual practices work directly on the Psychic System, since that is where all "blockages" caused by our past and continuing Karmas and Samskaras are lodged. When these blockages get cleared, prana starts flowing in copious quantities through the Sushumna and all the chakras and nadis, opening out the 3rd eye at some stage and enabling us to actually see these elements of the Psychic Neurobiology.
Krish |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2010 : 03:18:26 AM
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Thanks carson and Krish,
The clarification is really helpful here.
Is strange that i had this question cz i am very well aware of nadi´s/energetic system.But i have always had some kind of adversion to this word "nervous system".I think its cz it sound very physical and i prefer to use nadis,chakras....that kind of language.
But now after the answers it sounds better here.Think i needed to clean some kind of mental obstruction here.
Now i see it clearly (the subtle nervous system):
http://www.absoluteempowerment.com/...ge/nadis.jpg
So...thanks!
I have always tought that Would be more logical to call it "energetic system".I relate "nervous system" more with the physical dimension... |
Edited by - miguel on Apr 08 2010 03:28:53 AM |
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Smileyogi
Australia
50 Posts |
Posted - Apr 09 2010 : 05:23:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by miguel
Hi all,
Is it the physical nervous system or is it an astral/energetic/subtle thing?
Miquel..don't make it too complicated.Form is emptiness..emptiness is form.In other words,there is a projection named the body from the emptiness.The sushuma(middle channel) is the parasympathetic nervous system,the autonomous one.This means it acts by itself,you don't need to THINK about beating your heart,or metabolizing the food.
The other nervous system(the sympathetic) is the fight/run system,named the left/right nadhis.These are under your control.
The astral/energetic/subtle bodies are all there...when you apply one pressure to one body(lets say..the material) when you do lots of push-ups lets say..it will reflect on your other bodies.
The main point of meditation(if you are interested in healings) is to apply the REAL self power on the lower bodies(the flesh,mind,etc)
If you are not into healings,then the main point of meditation is to know whom you REALLY are,and escape karma,or suffering..and enjoy the pure bliss of your true nature.(aka become immortal)
In manifestation,I repeat..the bliss is felt only in manifestation.
There is no bliss otherwise,but there is peace..but to explain this I have to open other topic.
Kisses:)..much love to you.
Danny
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2010 : 03:40:10 AM
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Hi miguel,
we can distinguish two systems. One is the subtle system of the sushumna, chakras and nadis, and the other is the gross system of the spinal cord, brain and nerves. The former belongs to the subtle body (pranamaya kosha), the letter to the gross body (anamaya kosha). In Western countries we use the term "nervous system" exclusively when we talk about the neurobiology of the gross body. In my understanding, Yogani makes here an exception and uses the term "nervous system," particularly when he speaks about "purification" and "obstructions" as a common term for both the subtle and gross systems. Perhaps he figures that it will be more easily acceptable for the Western practitioner.
All the best,
Roman
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insideout
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2010 : 3:14:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mimirom
"purification" and "obstructions" as a common term for both the subtle and gross (nervous) systems.
What I have trouble understanding is how one can purify the physical nervous system. What obstructions are there? Maybe on a physical level meditation helps with hormonal and other physiochemical nervous processes,e.g. Carson being able to brake past addictions. But purification of what? Looking at this picture of a nerve I can't see what needs purification or where obstructions could possibly be. |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2010 : 5:01:00 PM
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Thanks smile yogi and mimiron for your answers.
Inside out has made the question that i wanted to do and much more better than me.
I see and understand the purification in the subtle energetic system,but cant understand or see how it works in the physical nervous system.Would be interesting to know more about it. |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Apr 11 2010 : 7:14:13 PM
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Hi insideout and Miguel,
I'm not an expert in neurology. In my view, the gross nervous system may quite naturally follow changes in the corresponding subtle system. If the subtle system gets purified and prana starts to flow more freely, damaged neurons and synapses may heal more quickly, or start to heal (= purify...) if they stagnated altogether. New neurons and neuronal pathways may develop, as recent studies have shown. In this way, completely new neurobiological structures may develop in our nervous system, and provide "hardware" for new functions that occur in late stages of the enlightenment process.
In this way, we could talk about purification (or healing) of all structures of all the bodies. Not only of the, say, gross nervous system, but of the entire gross body. Many of the practitioners noticed that after a release of a blockage on some subtle level, particular physical symptoms tend to subside ( eg. inflamation, stiffness, tremor symptoms, bad posture etc.) This in turn allows for further healing in various ways (eg. better posture allows better breathing), even more prana starts to flow, etc. etc.
Purification on the emotional and mental levels can also contribute to physical healing. Like you release an emotional blockage causing anxiety, which prevented you from meeting people. So you start meeting people and somebody invites you to an asana class, where you get the opportunity to work on your inflexible hips, etc.
I see that everyone won't be comfortable with this kind of reasoning. I think it can be typically uncomfortable to reason like this while we look at one isolated neuron with a microscope, figuring where there inside this piece of matter purification could possibly occur.
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Apr 11 2010 : 9:02:04 PM
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Hi All,
Interesting thread .. and good points to clarify (differences, if any, regarding the physical and subtle nervous system{s}).
Most of the key ground has been well-covered, I'd say .... I have just a "couple-few" comments that I hope may be helpful:
1. The distinctions between physical and subtle are basically an effect of Western scientific view, as created over the last few centuries. This view has been around for roughly four centuries. The more holistic, so-called Eastern view, has been around for (closer to, if not more than) roughly four millenia ... or approximately ten times as long.
And so, it's important, I feel, especially in conjunction with "things yogic" not to compare the two systems (yogic and so-called scientific) too rigidly. In terms of experience, at least, the more holistic model seems to sync up with direct experience much more easily.
2. If we wonder how the subtle and physical directly interact and influence one another, we can easily find out by thinking, in great detail, about something which brings us deep joy, or maybe stark fear, or possibly even overt arousal .... and noticing the very real physical effects which take place as a result of these thoughts. Just because the connections between subtle and physical are not currently, directly objectively observable (obviously) does not mean that they're not real.
Thinking "only objective equals real" is the great blind spot of so-called modern science.
And that's not only my opinion ...... certain people who are far more authoritative than myself, such as B. Alan Wallace .. are doing some fascinating work in this realm (educating the world that the inner realms are the next great scientific frontier .... from the standpoint of scientific credibility ..... please see his website for details).
3. I've come to think of the physical and subtle nervous systems as points on a spectrum .... kind of like temperature ..... science says "Only zero celsius and below is real" ... and yet every person experiences temperatures from well below zero, to well above thirty C. or so, whether or not science says the higher temperatures are "real". The key point is: the reality is t/here whether we see it or not; and perception is determined by where we're observing and/or experiencing from.
From unitive awareness, both subtle and physical layers (and causal or very subtle, as well) are experienced as objects displaying in awareness, which are also part of self/awareness, regardless of what they're called, or where any particular lines are drawn by language and thinking.
4. Neuroplasticity, or maybe more accurately stated, "Bioplasticity" ... is a consummately real dynamic, that science is beginning to acknowledge in full. Not many years ago at all, we were taught that adults don't form new neurons or neuronal pathways!! Utterly false ... as neuroscience now fully agrees ... largely due to recent advances in abilities to measure more nuanced states of brain activity, via technologies such as fMRI and PET Scans.
Nearly *every* event in our lives contributes to overall bioplasticity. Depressed thoughts and emotions contribute to depressed neurochemistry; likewise agitated thoughts and emotions; likewise, peace-filled and loving thoughts and emotions. A discovery of "modern science"? Not so much. Have you ever heard of the three gunas? The evolutes of prakriti (nature)? Tamas, Rajas, Sattva; Depression; Anxiety; Peace.
*Everything* contributes to bioplasticity ... we're literally, continually creating ourselves by the actions arising from the thoughts arising from our desires/conscious willingness (<-- whichever has the greater power, in our own experience, currently), arising from our awareness of our true self as awareness ..... or our not being aware of this, yet.
Purification is simply the re-programming of our overall spiritual-mental-physical system, at each of those levels, via consistent, daily practices and inquiry (a topic close to my heart; this is essentially what Living Unbound is all about).
Purifying the body via physical practices, and those involving physical, energetic and mental form (such as Spinal Breathing and Deep Meditation), allows the body to become a support structure for the more refined platform of inner silence.
Becoming more converse with inner silence as part of consciousness (as opposed to solely being familiar with the agitation commonly thought of as "normal" thinking ) .... allows for experience of the complete range of mind (and not just the agitated surface) .... which allows our true nature of infinite awareness to connect with and influence the physical, via the power of the bridge of clarified, unified mind (Shakti, Christ, Hanuman).
Finally, experiencing ourselves as infinite, thought-free awareness, repeatedly, reinforces that reality at the levels of mind-body (subtle/energetic and physical).
Basically, as awareness expands, the sense of body grows ... infinitely; as the Shiva Sutras say: "The body is the perceptible".
Or, as Adyashanti says: "The world is not my concern; it is myself."
None of this is mystical, magical or metaphorical ..... just actual.
Reality doesn't so much care what you call it; it just keeps on being reality.
Science may never see a chakra, or measure subtle energy; chakras aren't physical, and to-date, at least, the non-physical is very difficult to physically measure ... .... but this doesn't, as most of us here know, mean that "subtle" is anything less than completely real.
The most "bottom" bottom-line of all is: it ALL happens within awareness-consciousness, because there's only awareness-consciousness for it to happen IN.
And .... We Are THAT.
I hope this is helpful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Edited by - Kirtanman on Apr 11 2010 10:16:06 PM |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Apr 12 2010 : 12:55:06 AM
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Wow, Kirtanman,
I fully endorse all that.
You really use words very well to say what you wish to convey. Very articulate!
There is a video CD called "Spiritual Reality', that basically talks about meditation, and how it affects us. It shows how our samskaras lodge in our subtle nervous system(naadis) as obstructions, creating, what are called, "Etheric patches", in different parts of the body corresponding to the etheric sheath, which(patches)
are supposed to be responsible for the diseases and other problems we suffer.
Meditation(and other spiritual practices) clear these obstructions, and thus also clear up the dis-eases/problems.
My understanding is that the "naadi" that the Ayurvedic practitioner checks on our wrist while diagnosing, is not the pulse, but actually the etheric body, which tells the doctor about the "imbalances" in the body, in terms of "Vaata", "Pitta", and "Kapha" that need to be addressed with herbal concoctions, in order to fix the diseases or problems.
Krish |
Edited by - krcqimpro1 on Apr 12 2010 12:57:39 AM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Apr 12 2010 : 8:38:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by krcqimpro1
Wow, Kirtanman,
I fully endorse all that.
You really use words very well to say what you wish to convey. Very articulate!
Krish
Hi Krish,
Thanks for the kind words!
That CD sounds interesting. I don't know for sure about what you wrote (simply hadn't heard it before) ... but I *can* attest to the amazing insight that ayurvedic doctors can gain from checking one's pulse! I had an ayurvedic exam about fifteen years ago; the doctor checked my pulse ... and then she rattled off some of the major health issues I'd had over the course of my life!
This is a good example of what I was talking about in my post: so-called Western science would have a hard time believing this (what I wrote in the paragraph above), because there's no rational explanation - but health sciences with a track record of literally thousands of years (such as Ayurveda) operate from a more holistic view, and the results speak for themselves, I'd say.
There's a very interesting book I just remembered, too, called Esoteric Anatomy, by Bruce Burger, that covers a lot of information, as far as the connections/inherent unity between the body's physical and subtle energy systems (in case anyone is interested, per this thread).
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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insideout
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - Apr 13 2010 : 12:39:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mimirom
...Damaged neurons and synapses may heal... New neurons and neuronal pathways may develop...
This is a good way of looking at it, thanks mimirom. It's not too far of a stretch to associate purification and opening of the subtle biology with healing and egression of the physical. |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2010 : 1:54:22 PM
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| Thank you all for the replyes. |
Edited by - miguel on Apr 18 2010 1:54:42 PM |
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Dogboy
USA
2242 Posts |
Posted - Mar 21 2015 : 5:11:58 PM
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Another "gem thread" on neurobiology from the past, for my AYP brothers and sisters!  |
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technoyogi
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - Mar 21 2015 : 8:08:43 PM
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I agree with all of the above. And to perhaps add something to the discussion, there is very likely there is also a hormonal and neurotransmitter and dna effect that science is only starting to uncover as well.
For example, there is a neurotransmitter known as "anandamide" which was only discovered in 1992 that almost nobody knows about (many people know about serotonin, dopamine, acetlycholine, GABA, etc). And yet there is literally this new neurotransmitter named after the sanscrit word for joy, delight, bliss - "ananda"! Just guessing here but maybe it helps play a part in the rising of pure bliss consciousness 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anandamide
And of course that is to say nothing of the so called "spirit molecules" like DMT, pinoline, etc. These literally open our eyes to see divinity in everything around us, and so much much more.
And perhaps some of these help to turn on aspects of the 96% of our DNA which we have no idea currently what it does so science has copped out by calling it "junk dna". Gimme a break, junk dna hahaha...
All I can say is that in some of my rarified states I can certainly resonate with the idea the buddhist have that the human body is incredibly precious and apparently "hard to get" from a reincarnation standpoint. I feel like I have been given this amazing ship to pilot, with subtle bodies, astral bodies, causal bodies, etheric bodies, and this radically awesome nanotechnological biotechnological wonder of all wonders that puts all other human made technologies to shame.
OHHHMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!! Thank you thank you thank you all that is, thank you for letting me start to learn how to pilot this universe of a body via things like AYP, dream yoga, etc.  |
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nervous system.
