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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 01:56:31 AM
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| I know the difference between the workings of the mantra and the sutras. My question is: Do you release both inside the silence the same way? That's what I do.. but wondering... |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 07:58:25 AM
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Hi SeySorciere
If you have another look at the lesson on the mantra here you will see that the approach to the mantra and the approach to samyama here are quite different.
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insideout
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 11:14:08 PM
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Richard is right, Samyama is the release into silence, while meditation is favoring the mantra (not favoring silence).
From Lesson 204
- Deep meditation with the mantra "I AM" (plus two mantra enhancements along the way). Meditation involves easily favoring the mantra to bring the mind (and body) to stillness over and over again twice daily, stimulating deep purification in our nervous system, and yielding permanent inner blissful silence.
- Samyama – the process of initiating and releasing particular thoughts (sutras) deep within our inner silence, producing powerful purifying effects throughout the nervous system. The effects can manifest as so-called supernormal powers, which are called siddhis. Samyama is done for spiritual purification.
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 03:53:16 AM
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Yes guys, but to "favor the mantra", you say /think the mantra inside, it refines itself, surrounded by the silence it has generated and practically disappearing into it.
To release sutras into the silence, it is also saying it/thinking it/ intending it... their effects are different, but the actual thinking it is the same to me.
Moving from DM to samayama, I simply replace the mantra from wherever it was last located with the first sutra (Love)- that's my question. |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 10:55:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
Yes guys, but to "favor the mantra", you say /think the mantra inside, it refines itself, surrounded by the silence it has generated and practically disappearing into it.
To release sutras into the silence, it is also saying it/thinking it/ intending it... their effects are different, but the actual thinking it is the same to me.
Moving from DM to samayama, I simply replace the mantra from wherever it was last located with the first sutra (Love)- that's my question.
Hi SeySorciere:
The difference is, in meditation we keep favoring the mantra, even as it is refining. When we realize we are no longer favoring the mantra, we come back to it at whatever level of clarity or fuzziness we left off. In samyama we pick up the sutra and let it go in stillness for about 15 seconds, and then pick it up again. The sutra is picked up at whatever level of clarity or fuzziness we are at, and released. The main difference between mantra and sutra utilization is that mantra is taken within as a vehicle, while sutra is released within like releasing a bird to fly.
These two practices have different functions. Deep meditation takes us inward to stillness using an object (mantra). Samyama brings us out from stillness using an object (sutra). Deep meditation cultivates abiding inner silence (stillness), and samyama cultivates stillness in action, the ongoing expression of our intentions in divine outpouring, which is the rise of the non-dual unity experience in daily life.
The guru is in you.
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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 12:30:14 PM
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Hey SeySorciere,
Here's my current understanding on this, I think you're right - at the actual instant of the saying/thinking, they are very similar. A thought/energy pulse is brought from stillness into existence. The other facets of the practices are different.
Mantra goes from the chaos of normal thought, to a uniform repeated wave pattern of pulsing thought/energy, purifying and canceling the chaotic energies. Then mantra is stopped, and finally released. In this way, I think the final repetition of the mantra is more similar to samyama. What's left is relative stillness. Then in samyama, the sutras go from stillness to a single thought/energy pulse, and fade back to stillness.
So for mantra, I don't release it each time, but immediately start another repetition. It forms a continuous uniform wave of pulsing thought/energy, until I finally release it at the end of meditation. Each repetition is connected to the last.
I don't start samyama immediately after meditation. I take some time between meditation and samyama (a minute, or a few minutes), and the energy flow from mantra meditation calms down and settles into stillness. From there I pick up the first sutra.
So I guess to sum up, I think the stillness during mantra is a stillness of uniformity, and the stillness afterward is a stillness of absence.
Again, just my current (always changing) understanding of it.
Hope it helped.
JDH
Edit: Well, they are the same stillness, just that during meditation, the mantra's energy pulse is present within that stillness (and purifying other energies to make it possible). |
Edited by - JDH on Feb 24 2010 12:36:52 PM |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2010 : 09:41:57 AM
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Thank you Yogani / JDH 
Looks like the keywords are favour the mantra, going in; pick up the sutra, release, pick up again after 15s - totally clear! Hee hee hee... joking. I think I get it. Will experiment with that subtle difference |
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insideout
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2010 : 6:38:07 PM
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Sey,
From your original post it seems like you were favoring silence during meditation. Gently bringing your focus back to the mantra when you realize your attention is on the silence after the mantra is meditation. Having your attention on the silence after releasing the sutra is samyama. This is what I meant when I wrote "favoring the mantra (not favoring silence)."
Hope that makes sense. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2010 : 01:02:24 AM
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Hey Insideout - Thanks ! You've hit the nail on the head and given me the best answer. I often favour the silence and not the mantra. Favour the mantra in meditation; pick up the sutra, release and favour the silence in those 15 seconds before picking up the sutra again. Got it !
But but but... this leads me to something frustrating me at the moment - also realising that I probably got it wrong from the start. I always looked forward to simply falling into that silence /pure bliss consciousness; amazing state of vast consciousness (I used to call it the Place of Knowing as I did not have the right vocabulary for it at first - I read Yogani's DM book (and other books)way after that and came to this website only recently. Don't ask me why I didn't come to the website before that - I don't have an answer. Truly.)
Well, I never get to that state anymore. Instead the silence rises and is present in the State of the witness. But I guess that was the whole point, correct?
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Rael
USA
173 Posts |
Posted - Mar 27 2010 : 5:19:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
Hey Insideout - Thanks ! You've hit the nail on the head and given me the best answer. I often favour the silence and not the mantra. Favour the mantra in meditation; pick up the sutra, release and favour the silence in those 15 seconds before picking up the sutra again. Got it !
But but but... this leads me to something frustrating me at the moment - also realising that I probably got it wrong from the start. I always looked forward to simply falling into that silence /pure bliss consciousness; amazing state of vast consciousness (I used to call it the Place of Knowing as I did not have the right vocabulary for it at first - I read Yogani's DM book (and other books)way after that and came to this website only recently. Don't ask me why I didn't come to the website before that - I don't have an answer. Truly.)
Well, I never get to that state anymore. Instead the silence rises and is present in the State of the witness. But I guess that was the whole point, correct?
Well, i guess this is about not getting stuck in pleasant states/side-effects, and letting them go as they arise, just like negative or neutral ones. It seems that we must work at the level where we current land. The original state may return if and when it is suitable to your internal process. You will have much more to experience that will reward you, until you probably won't need to feel even that!
Cosmic hugs
Rael |
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Mantra & Sutras
