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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 21 2010 : 11:54:46 PM
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Hi Yogani,
Since, as a consequence of regular daily long term practice of the core practices(AYP), all doubts we might have regarding the "Truth", will eventually get cleared intuitively, is there any real need to actively engage in "Self-Enquiry" formally.
The other query was: if,self enquiry is practiced, and if, as indicated in your writings, self-enquiry is effective only if it is "relational", and done after the "dawn" of the "witness", would it not be better to do it after DM and during Samyama formally?
(I do understand that the questions for self-enquiry can arise any time, and one should not have to wait till one sits for practices to address them.)
Krish |
Edited by - krcqimpro1 on Feb 23 2010 01:30:38 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2010 : 11:58:50 PM
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Hi Krish
Whether or not you choose to engage in Self Inquiry "formally" or not, if you are engaged in an active sadhana it will be inevitable.....don't think there is any escaping it.
Love!
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2010 : 01:54:32 AM
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Hello Krish,
quote:
Originally posted by krcqimpro1
...would it not be better to do it after DM and during Samyama formally?
This lesson is about as formal as it gets (re: inquiry during samyama):
http://www.aypsite.org/351.html
I agree with Carson that self-inquiry is probably inevitable with these practices. It doesn't have to happen in a formal way (asking questions). It can happen naturally by releasing thoughts when they arise, just seeing what's true or not true.
Peace brother 
cosmic |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2010 : 03:22:23 AM
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Hi Carson and Cosmic,
Thanks. I must have missed reading that lesson. I shall now add this sutra to my samyama practice.
Krish |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2010 : 04:12:14 AM
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| I think meditation and self inquiry are the same, either, both or neither are necessary. Once you know about these things the fire is ignited, how long it takes to burn away the illusion is unknown, however the practises are just a part of that burning. |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2010 : 10:22:18 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2010 : 12:08:11 PM
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Hi Krish:
If a serious meditator using an effective daily practice never gives self-inquiry a second thought, it will happen anyway, because it is perceptual -- naturally seeing all objects from the point of view of rising inner silence (the witness) more and more. When that is happening, one "notices," and that is automatic inquiry. Noticing the objects of perception in stillness is enough to advance the process on non-dual enlightenment. It may become structured self-inquiry, or not, depending on the background and inclination of the practitioner.
This is why, in the AYP writings, a particular mode of self-inquiry is not put forth as "the method." Once the witness is coming up, perception will become relational (in stillness), and from there the approach will be quite personal, depending on the practitioner's ishta (chosen ideal) and resonance found with one or more approaches to self-inquiry, or no structured approach at all. This range of possibilities for self-inquiry was covered in Lesson 350, on the various ways one may move beyond the witness/object relationship into direct experience of non-duality.
And, yes, Lesson 351 referred to by Cosmic above is a very easy and effective way to engage in the self-inquiry process as part of our structured samyama practice, with no mess and no fuss -- a good place to start self-inquiry if we are well-established in core samyama practice. It gets right down to it -- releasing the most basic inquiry in stillness. In time, this practice leads to an intuitive sense of relational self-inquiry during daily activity, without accumulating a lot of non-relational mental baggage to be carried around all day long. We become the automatic inquiry in motion, which is stillness in action, the non-dual condition.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: For more lessons on "self-inquiry," check for links in the top "main techniques" section of the Topic Index.
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2010 : 12:59:37 PM
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Thanks, Yogani. I just received the book on Self-Enquiry from Chandrika (on saturday), and did one quick reading.It is amazing how 'logical' the whole thing looks now!
I do not know whether this is covered anywhere in our scriptures like this, but you have done a terrific job in your writings, of clarifying how all the 8 limbs of Yoga can be connected in practice.
I had missed reading lesson 351, and I am now adding this sutra to my samyama list. Incidentally, is the aspect you have brought out nicely, of "dropping into inner silence the things we want manifested in our life",the part that is mentioned in the last part of Patanjali's sutras( dealing with Siddhis)?
Krish
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Edited by - krcqimpro1 on Feb 22 2010 1:08:56 PM |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2010 : 3:24:24 PM
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Hi Krish, and thank you.
AYP is a fresh look at venerable spiritual approaches across the board, minus the traditional limitations. Someone had to do it sometime. Why not us? And why not now?
If we dig into jnana and advaita teachings, we find that meditation and yoga have always been regarded as preparations for self-inquiry. It can be found in the teachings of both Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj, two 20th century giants of jnana/advaita, though hardly at all in the teachings of their many successors.
It has been a bit of a shadow game the great advaita teachers played, speaking of the uncompromising immutability of the non-dual nature of existence, while at the same time looking the other way, or outright encouraging practitioners to engage in the systematic methods of yoga. This contradictory approach has been confusing for many practitioners, often misleading them to believe that they must "walk the talk" of non-duality before they really can. It leads to what we have called "non-relational self-inquiry," lacking abiding inner silence (witness), and a formula for building thought-form castles in the air.
While the truth of the interconnectedness of yoga and advaita has always been there, it has been obscured, perhaps because the methods of practice have not been very effective on either side of that philosophical divide for large numbers of people.
The very few who manage to make it through this contradictory approach are the ones who were ripe and ready to fall off the tree anyway. Then, generally, they teach from that perspective of ripeness, with no systematic yoga practices recommended, which does not reach the vast majority of people who are yet to become ripe. This is essentially a denial of what is, in favor of the teacher's perspective: The proverbial forgetful mountain climber.
The more flexible advaita teachers do get this in time, and end up teaching meditative practices of one kind or other in an attempt to fill in the gap between the majority of their followers and the condition of ripeness (abiding witness) necessary for engaging in effective non-dual self-inquiry. Less flexible advaita teachers just keep hammering away at their followers with non-duality concepts, sometimes accompanied by bursts of shaktipat energy, which can be a rather chaotic approach.
In AYP, we put the entire process in the practitioner's hands, with lots of tools and self-pacing guidelines available. By utilizing effective daily practices and the unique experiential track of the practitioner, where the regulation of practices and measure of progress is according to direct experience rather than arbitrary external guidelines, we are finding many people experiencing the natural emergence of relational self-inquiry, with results that are quite fruitful. With effective tools, each will find it for themselves. Spiritual unfoldment on that basis is real, as many have verified.
And why not? Yoga has always been an integrated experience-based (scientific) approach. It is the unruly mind that has tended to dis-integrate it into conceptualizations of little value. Yoga is very smart about taking us beyond the mental mish-mash to ripeness, and beyond...
The guru is in you.
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 01:37:10 AM
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Thanks Yogani, for the beautiful and profound response.
Krish |
Edited by - krcqimpro1 on Feb 23 2010 01:42:26 AM |
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Shivoham
India
107 Posts |
Posted - Mar 27 2010 : 03:42:15 AM
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A yogi may practice yoga his entire life or sit in nirvikalpa samadhi for yugas but without the knowledge of the brahaman the purpose of life cannot be reached. The whole purpose of hatha yoga is to make one ready for Brahmavidya raja yoga.
If you allready have this qualities:
. Nitya-anitya vastu viveka (Discrimination between the
permanent and the ephemeral)
. Vairaagya (Dispassion)
. Shama and dama
. Uparati
. Titikshaa
. Shraddhaa
. SamaadhAna
You can get enlightenment just by reading books like Avadhut gita and ashtavakra gita without doing any yoga. But if your body is not ready to handle the change of your consciousness, You may not be able to sustain the samadhi state. So even after the enlightenment(first level)a sage may continue the practice of yoga until the final state is reached.
Nirvikalpa samadhi is lost when a yogi opens his eyes. He will be just a common man then. But the samadhi you get by practicing Brahmavidya is not lost by opening the eyes.You see yourself everywhere as everything. This gives freedom in life.
You may or may not practice yoga but without the knowledge of the self the liberation cannot happen
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Is Self-Enquiry really necessary?
